If there is no money judgement and, after several letters, they say they do not have one and do not need one but then they decide to return to court several years later what is the advice re the following:

Am I entitled to attend to make defence? If yes, what is my best defence? If they get the money jusgement, what then?

I ask this now that Carol is appearing on the site - welcome - you gave me advice a while ago and the above is more or less my situation save that, as yet, they have not told me they are going to get one. I am aware that they can and do as others on this site have had the very same happen to them.

-- Matt (mattyc@ntlworld.com), February 05, 2001

Answers

Matt,

read the board - you should have served your borrower/their solicitors with a SARN. They are legally obliged to give you these documents for a fixed sum (usually £10). There are example letters elsewhere on this board.

If you haven't served the SARN then do it now.

Your best defence is to say that the lender has not substantiated their claim. Say that you have not seen any of their figures and that you are concerned that they have not sold you property for the best price as they are legally obliged to do so. This is all documented in the Repossession and Debt Collection areas of the board...

-- Chris (chrishoare@btinternet.com), February 05, 2001.

If you ever found yourself in the unlikely position of being pursued in court for a money judgement (and yes, my understanding is that you do have a right to be there & defend - though I stand to be corrected on this) then you need to point out the unreasonable delay & unfair treatment, and demand that the lender produces the *original* mortgage deed. Not a copy. Not even a certified copy. The original. In fact you should be asking for this now - i.e. asking when can you and your legal representative expect to be allowed to view the original mortage deed upon which the lender is basing its claim? Will your lender even confirm or deny that it is in possession of the original mortgage deed? (Not title deed - the mortgage deed, which comes with terms and conditions.)

-- Eleanor Scott (eleanor.scott@btinternet.com), February 05, 2001.

Matt,

Eleanor and I are in the process of some offline discussions but hope that our findings will be of benefit to everyone (watch this space!). I agree with everything that she has to say. In my opinion (and like Eleanor I stand to be corrected on any of my following comments) the process of getting a money judgement is a legal case between the lender and yourself and therefore you have a right to a defence and an audience at the hearing. I would suggest that you follow Eleanor's advice and demand that the *original* deed is produced in court. If you do not demand the original document the judge, it would seem, assumes that you are agreeing that their copy (or lack of) is good enough, and this should never be the case. The bottom line is that after all is said and done the Money Judgement is an enforcement order on an alleged shortfall governed by the mortgage deed. As a side note I have heard a lot about the comments made by Carol with regards to money judgements, but no one ever seems to know Carol's source of information. ie "the lender should obtain a Money Judgement at time of repo or where refused seek to do so within one year". I would love to know the source of this information so that I can also do some further digging. If anyone knows please let me know.

Tim

-- Tim Heath (tim_n_heath@hotmail.com), February 05, 2001.

Would also like to see this theory as well and hope its practice- statute or case law. Have great respect for Carol and the work she does but having seen a Barristor very recently his Opinion was there is no problem with a Lender Going after a Shortfall of Example 4 years later!

Would love to prove him wrong so agree with last answer and lets see what turns up.

Charles Twford

-- charles twford (twford@lineone.net), February 05, 2001.

Thanks for your comments. If you are reading this Carol your thoughts would be gratefully received as there is obvious confusion on this matter. I have already asked for the mortgage deed along with many other documents and basically told them to 'put up or shut up' but a bit more subtley. What a suprise, they have doen nothing for a long time now.

As yet I have not gone down the road of a SARN as I strongly beleive that the 'debt' does not exist and therefore why should I spend any money on this - they have been kind enough to even send letters with unfranked stamps so I can re use them!!!! One day I will probably have to but not for a while yet.

What I am really trying to ascertain are the facts re the money judgement. The repossession on my flat was at least 10 years ago, they will not tell me when, and I feel that it is very unlikely that any court would even entertain a case to obtain one let alone give them one.

-- Matt (mattyc@ntlworld.com), February 06, 2001.