Do you know Jesus or tradition because if you know tradition your burdened and a slave to sin?

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Greetings: What did Jesus say over and over again? God Spirit do you have it? Are you a slave to sin? The things of this world are they needed to be godly? If you dont seek Jesus and you too will be saved made righteous by God forever. We need Jesus not white washed tombs for they are not of God. Ask God what white washed tombs are in Jesus name lest you follow their deception. Jesus saves!Romans 4:5 However, to the man that does work but trust God who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness. Gods promise. Be free in Jesus name may God open those hearts who are sincere.

-- Alex is saved by Jesus (Jesusislife@Christianemail.com), February 05, 2001

Answers

The Apostles' Creed continues to be used as the baptismal profession of faith in most Western churches; Orthodox churches prefer to use the later Nicene Creed. In Roman Catholic practice, the Apostles' Creed is also recited in the daily office, before the first and after the last service each day. In most Protestant churches, it is used periodically at Sunday worship. Anglicans and Lutherans use it regularly in morning and evening prayer (matins and evensong).

I believe in God, the Father almighty, Creator of Heaven and Earth. I believe in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord. He was conceived by the power of the Holy Spirit and born of the Virgin Mary. He suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, died, and was buried. He descended to the dead. On the third day he rose again. He ascended into Heaven, and is seated at the right hand of the Father. He will come again to judge the living and the dead. I believe in the Holy Spirit, the holy catholic Church, the communion of saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body, and the life everlasting. Amen.

-- Alberto Ponce (sabueso2@usa.net), February 06, 2001.


Alex, you said "Do you know Jesus or tradition because if you know tradition your burdened and a slave to sin?". Isn't the Christian way and the teachings of the Catholic church the traditions that have been handed down to us by Jesus Christ himself? The Merriam Webster definition of tradition: the handing down of information, beliefs, and customs by word of mouth or by example from one generation to another without written instruction. So...how can you not have one without the other? How can you claim to know Jesus and not follow the traditions he passed down to us?

-- jackiea (jackiea@hotmail.com), February 07, 2001.

I seek the Tradition of Jesus, in His person and His teaching.

-- Br. Rich SFO (repsfo@prodigy.net), February 07, 2001.

Greetings: Where does Gods word say through tradition you are saved? Why would I follow them when Jesus is the savior not a religios building?

-- Ales saved by Jesus (Jesusislife@Christianemail.com), February 08, 2001.

Dear AlexJr.
I have just one question. Why should you follow us around? Are you lonely out there without a building? Come on in, and get warm. Take your halo off and give it a rest! Lol!

-- eugene c. chavez (chavezec@pacbell.net), February 08, 2001.


alex,

"through Tradition" we know the proper interpretation of scripture (we can learn from all those the Holy Spirit has helped through the ages), and the proper practice of the faith, for instance, Sacraments (I saw your other post, and I will get to it asap

-- anthony (fides_spes_et_caritas@hotmail.com), February 08, 2001.


Alex, I'm really starting to wonder about you. First, I just thought you needed a spell checker but now that you can't even get your own name right.....And your response is exactly what I've been trying to get across. You didn't answer me! You said this..."Greetings: Where does Gods word say through tradition you are saved?". Now, tell me, if you can/will...where did I say that???? Did I say that? Nooooooo. And this.."Why would I follow them when Jesus is the savior not a religios building?". Now, tell me this, Alex....has any one of us Catholics EVER said that Jesus is NOT the saviour??? No. Has any one of us EVER said that a religious building IS??? No. And you signed this little tidbit of yours "Ales saved by Jesus (Jesusislife@Christianemail.com), February 08, 2001. "

Alex, are you actually a robot that spits out computer generated posts from time to time? Or is it at all possible that you can actually have a dialogue with someone else? Can you actually TALK to one of us? Or are you afraid you'll be tainted to be in such close proximity of a Catholic? If you think you CAN have an actual, intelligent conversation, answer my post. This one and the previous one.

And so, let me start here...for those that like the Bible quotes...I will try to explain/defend my faith.

Matthew 5:11-"Blessed are you when people revile you and persecute you and utter all kinds of evil against you falsely on my account. Rejoice and be glad, for your reward is great in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you."

Regarding Jesus having brothers/sisters.... Matthew 12:47-"Someone told him "look, your mother and your brothers are standing outside, wanting to speak to you. But to the one who had told him this, Jesus replied, "Who is my mother, and who are my brothers?" And pointing to his disciples, he said "Here are my mother and my brothers! For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother."

To those who would try to dissuade us of our faith...

Matthew 18:6-"If any of you try to put a stumbling block before one of these little ones who believe in me, it would be better for you if a great millstone were fastened around your neck and you were drowned in the depth of the sea. Woe to the world because of stumbling blocks!"

On this "building", our church.....this building is made of wood and rock. It is not the building that makes this our church. It is the people in it that make it so.... Ephesians 5:24- "As the church is subject to Christ, so let wives also be subject in everything to their husbands. 25-Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her....".

On admonishing us for going to our priests; saying we should not listen to man but only to God; that we have too many "rules"....

Timothy 3:4-"He must manage his own household well, keeping his children submissive and respectful in every way; 5-for if a man does not know how to manage his own household, how can he care for God's church? 6-He must not be a recent convert, or he may be puffed up with conceit and fall into the condemnation of the devil...".

On where our church got it's start...where our Pope comes from....and where priests obtained their authority.

Matthew 10:1-8 "And he called to him his twelve disciples and gave them authority over unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal every disease and every infirmity. 2 The names of the twelve apostles are these: first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zeb'edee, and John his brother; 3 Philip and Bartholomew; Thomas and Matthew the tax collector; James the son of Alphaeus, and Thaddaeus; 4 Simon the Cananaean, and Judas Iscariot, who betrayed him. 5 These twelve Jesus sent out, charging them, "Go nowhere among the Gentiles, and enter no town of the Samaritans, 6 but go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. 7 And preach as you go, saying, 'The kingdom of heaven is at hand.' 8 Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse lepers, cast out demons. You received without paying, give without pay."

16-22 "16 "Behold, I send you out as sheep in the midst of wolves; so be wise as serpents and innocent as doves. 17 Beware of men; for they will deliver you up to councils, and flog you in their synagogues, 18 and you will be dragged before governors and kings for my sake, to bear testimony before them and the Gentiles. 19 When they deliver you up, do not be anxious how you are to speak or what you are to say; for what you are to say will be given to you in that hour; 20 for it is not you who speak, but the Spirit of your Father speaking through you. 21 Brother will deliver up brother to death, and the father his child, and children will rise against parents and have them put to death; 22 and you will be hated by all for my name's sake. But he who endures to the end will be saved."

39-42 "39 He who finds his life will lose it, and he who loses his life for my sake will find it. 40 "He who receives you receives me, and he who receives me receives him who sent me. 41 He who receives a prophet because he is a prophet shall receive a prophet's reward, and he who receives a righteous man because he is a righteous man shall receive a righteous man's reward. 42 And whoever gives to one of these little ones even a cup of cold water because he is a disciple, truly, I say to you, he shall not lose his reward."

And that is all for tonight. The hour has grown very late and I am very tired. But know this, Alex and all others who would try to sway us...you have done nothing but draw us closer to the church that you so despise. And I, for one, take great comfort in that.



-- jackiea (jackiea@hotmail.com), February 09, 2001.


Hmmm...no reply? Nothing to say? Not even a whisper? I think I got my answer. Thanks, Alex.

-- jackiea (jackiea@hotmail.com), February 09, 2001.

Jackie,
On ocassions the devil raises up fears and *disturbances* in our midst, to weaken our faith and attack Christ's Church. In essence they leave no real impression on the faithful. They pass, like AlexJr's outbursts always pass. The devil's only way of breaking us is to lead us into error and from there to sin. Without our sins, he has nothing.

A voice like Alex Jr's is intended to create division and doubt. It certainly has no message of faith or consolation. Its sole interest is to fight the Church. Some people serve the devil's purpose, even if they don't realize it. Poor Alex Jr can't help it; the devil is driving him. Let's pray for him, and for the many others like him. The Church of Jesus Christ is their only obsession; instead of prayer or peace, they want to tear the Catholic Church down. If they could do it, we would be finished. But they never will. God is on our side.

Jesus, Our Holy Redeemer and Lord, protect us from all evil; Holy Mother of God, Pray for your children, and James, Holy Apostle of Our Lord, Pray for us! AMEN!

-- eugene c. chavez (chavezec@pacbell.net), February 10, 2001.


I understand what you're saying, Eugene and I agree with you. You know, I tried explaining this board to my mother just this evening. I was at her home giving her an internet tutorial. She's rather new to it all and overwhelmed. So, I went to help. As I was trying to explain this board, I found that it wasn't an altogether easy task; hence, the confused look on her face. She just didn't get the leaving posts thing. In essence, I told her that some come just to get a rise out of us. And others are looking for answers. She's not Catholic so, she really didn't understand why someone would be "picking" on us. I didn't have time to really explain it all to her but I told her this and I tell you...I don't mind people coming here that genuinely are seeking answers. Because I was one of those people...and still am. But the others...well, they are rather like schoolyard bullies. They act really tough until you stand up to them continuously. And then, knowing they have no ground to stand on...they go away. She said so they are intentionally goading you all???? Some, yes, I said. But others are truly misguided. And it's our duty to try and set them straight...Do we always succeed? No. But at least we try. I will pray with you, Eugene. I do fervently hope that all eyes are opened and no longer deceived.

-- jackiea (jackiea@hotmail.com), February 10, 2001.


Now, to reject truth when it's presented, then your ears are sealed, you'll turn away from God, very religious. The Scripture said, "Heady, high-minded, lovers of pleasure more than lovers of God, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, and despisers of those that are good; having a form of godliness (all the forms, very fundamental), the forms of godliness, but deny the power thereof; from such turn away. For this is the sort that go from house to house and leads silly women laden with divers lust, never able to come to the knowledge of the truth."

That's right. That's the Scripture; that's what the Bible said. That's where my faith is anchored, is in God's Word, not in tradition of men, but in God's Word. That's where I want to be standing when Jesus comes, or when death comes to set me free from this old pest house I live in. Amen. Standing on the Word, heavens and earth will pass away, but It'll never fail. It's immortal, eternal.

Then, people think just because you go to church. Said, "Oh, that's all I have to do, is just go to church, be a pretty good fellow." That's wrong, brother, you're deceived. That's right. Esau was a pretty good fellow too. So was Cain a good fellow; both of them worshipers, believers. Cain was not an infidel; he was a believer. He come up, and built a church, and made a altar, decorated it up, and knelt by it, and prayed, and worshipped God. And God rejected him, because he didn't have the spiritual revelation. He come with a sincerity of his heart. Could you imagine a man coming up, knowing that it was between death and life, that his eternal destination rested upon his sacrifice, and would come wilfully ignorant? No, sir, he come with the integrity of heart and laid out... But, you see, brother, all your sincerity doesn't mean it. God has only promised one way.

How do you think that Abel knew to bring a lamb in the stead of a apple, or whatever you want to call it? How did he know to bring a lamb? Because no Bible was written in them days; it was revealed to him by the Lord.



-- William (prophet@email.com), February 10, 2001.


Jmj

Hello, William.

What you wrote was an eye-popper: "Cain was not an infidel; he was a believer. He come up, and built a church, and made a altar, decorated it up, and knelt by it, and prayed, and worshipped God. And God rejected him, because he didn't have the spiritual revelation. He come with a sincerity of his heart. ... How do you think that Abel knew to bring a lamb in the stead of a apple, or whatever you want to call it? How did he know to bring a lamb? Because no Bible was written in them days; it was revealed to him by the Lord."

Where did you find that information -- in the Book of Mormon? Cain "built a church ... made a altar ... decorated it up ... knelt by it ... prayed"? Abel "knew to bring a lamb" because "it was revealed to him by the Lord"?

The following is all of God's biblical revelation on Cain, which tells us that you are either being inventive or consulting an extra-biblical source:

from Genesis 4:
1: Now Adam knew Eve his wife, and she conceived and bore Cain, saying, "I have gotten a man with the help of the Lord."
2: And again, she bore his brother Abel. Now Abel was a keeper of sheep, and Cain a tiller of the ground.
3: In the course of time Cain brought to the Lord an offering of the fruit of the ground,
4: and Abel brought of the firstlings of his flock and of their fat portions. And the LORD had regard for Abel and his offering,
5: but for Cain and his offering he had no regard. So Cain was very angry, and his countenance fell.
6: The LORD said to Cain, "Why are you angry, and why has your countenance fallen?
7: If you do well, will you not be accepted? And if you do not do well, sin is couching at the door; its desire is for you, but you must master it."
8: Cain said to Abel his brother, "Let us go out to the field." And when they were in the field, Cain rose up against his brother Abel, and killed him.
9: Then the LORD said to Cain, "Where is Abel your brother?" He said, "I do not know; am I my brother's keeper?"
10: And the LORD said, "What have you done? The voice of your brother's blood is crying to me from the ground.
11: And now you are cursed from the ground, which has opened its mouth to receive your brother's blood from your hand.
12: When you till the ground, it shall no longer yield to you its strength; you shall be a fugitive and a wanderer on the earth."
13: Cain said to the LORD, "My punishment is greater than I can bear.
14: Behold, thou hast driven me this day away from the ground; and from thy face I shall be hidden; and I shall be a fugitive and a wanderer on the earth, and whoever finds me will slay me."
15: Then the LORD said to him, "Not so! If any one slays Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold." And the LORD put a mark on Cain, lest any who came upon him should kill him.
16: Then Cain went away from the presence of the LORD, and dwelt in the land of Nod, east of Eden.
17: Cain knew his wife, and she conceived and bore Enoch; and he built a city, and called the name of the city after the name of his son, Enoch.

1 John 3:11: For this is the message which you have heard from the beginning, that we should love one another,
12: and not be like Cain who was of the evil one and murdered his brother. And why did he murder him? Because his own deeds were evil and his brother's righteous.

Hebrews 11:4: By faith Abel offered to God a more acceptable sacrifice than Cain, through which he received approval as righteous, God bearing witness by accepting his gifts; he died, but through his faith he is still speaking.

By the way, William, you have quite a gift for being able to put into written form the affected speech patterns of a "Bible belt" preacher. That's very interesting to me. (I hear a little "thumping" sound in the background as I read.) Can you please tell us WHY you are posting messages here? Whom are you trying to reach -- and why? Are you here to criticize the Catholic Church? Are you a "unitarian" fundamentalist or pentecostal minister?

St. James, pray for us. O Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to you.
God bless you.
John

-- J. F. Gecik (jgecik@desc.dla.mil), February 10, 2001.


Dear John--
You thought I was mistaken, that we might be seeing a ''heavyweight'' here? Yes. This is the Prophet, and William truly thinks he's ordained and ready for this job.

Heavyweight? Maybe a glib man at the mike. I've seen some on TV; they love to prance back and forth on the stage; like Bruce Springsteen, ''Born to Run''. It's an art to these folks. But I'm not making fun of William. Let him remain in the forum, John. He wants to contribute. He has the chance, and he'd better be a heavyweight. Red fonts are fancy, but they aren't themselves the proof of the pudding.

That's the Scripture; that's what the Bible said. That's where my faith is anchored, is in God's Word, not in tradition of men, but in God's Word. That's where I want to be

Yes. And you've already nuked his interpretation of the Cain and Abel verses:

1 John 3:11: For this is the message which you have heard from the beginning, that we should love one another, 12: and not be like Cain who was of the evil one and murdered his brother. And why did he murder him? Because his own deeds were evil and his brother's righteous.

Not bad, JFG-- Did you have to run around on a stage, to pick out those bible verses? Lol!

-- eugene c. chavez (chavezec@pacbell.net), February 10, 2001.


I like when you answer back with scripture... I am not here to criticize nobody, I am here to just help out Gods elected, now back to what we were talking about.

But this fellow, where did that pure lying... Where did that sin come from? Where did this fellow, Cain, that murderer? And the Bible said that, the Devil is a murderer. Where did that lie come from? (The Devil is the father of a lie; he's a liar and the father of a lie.) It had to come from some resource outside of God. So Cain was the evil one, and his father was Satan; and he brought forth this evil one. And then, 'course, Adam knew his wife, certainly.

We always follow the nature of our parent. You know that. Look at a baby, its nature. Well then, Adam was a son of God. Eve was a daughter of God. Right, the first thing of the creation of God which could not have one speck of--of evil anywhere about... Evil wasn't even known. Then why was Cain a liar, a murderer, and everything else? Where'd that come from? Just ask yourself that question. That was the serpent's seed. You see?

Now, let's notice whether we're in the last age or not. Now, turn back in Genesis, about the, oh, about the 5th chapter--you can also turn to Luke--and find out that Enoch was the seventh from Noah. Enoch... There catches the serpent's seed, for if Cain was Abel's son, then he was the eighth. You see? But nowhere in the Bible it said that Cain was Abel's son--or Cain--or Cain was Adam's son, because that the Bible said he was of that evil one. And Adam wasn't the evil one. See? He was of the evil one.

Now let us be very careful that we are not confused at this point. Thus we will seek the Word to validate this claim. Let us go back to the Book of the beginning, Genesis. In the Garden of Eden there were TWO trees. One was good; one was evil. One produced LIFE, the other produced Death. There were two children who originally offered sacrifices to God.

Let me repeat that, they BOTH offered sacrifices to God. Genesis 4:3- 5, "And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the Lord. And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the Lord had respect unto Abel and to his offering: But unto Cain and to his offering He had not respect..." But one (Cain) was evil, being of his father (that Wicked One), while Abel was righteous before the Lord. Again, there were two children from the flesh of the same parents. But notice. They were planted together. They lived together. They both made claims upon God and worshipped God.

Satan can only pervert. So he beguiled her with the wrong seed. It was the serpent's seed that brought forth Cain. It was Adam's seed that brought forth Abel and Seth. Those seeds went through exactly the same process, but the children were different for they were from different seeds.

In Genesis 4:1, Eve said, "I have gotten a man from the Lord." She does not credit Adam with the fatherhood of Cain. But in Genesis 4:25, she says, "... For God, said she, hath appointed me ANOTHER seed, INSTEAD OF ABEL, whom Cain slew." She does not say God had GIVEN her another seed--that would have been Christ, for He is GIVEN. This son, Seth, was APPOINTED instead of Abel.

She recognizes her son that came by Adam; she does not now recognize Cain for he came by the serpent. When she says ANOTHER SEED instead of Abel, she is saying that Cain was different from Abel, for if they were of the same father she would have had to say, "I have been given some MORE SEED."



-- William (prophet@email.com), February 10, 2001.


Well, Sir-- For such a prophet you sure don't know what you're talking about. As soon as Adam and Eve are sent away from the Garden, the Original sin of Adam is already producing children tainted with it-- and Cain is the first one to exhibit plainly its effect. No other father of the living existed then, William. Both Cain and his full brother Abel were offspring of our first parents, Adam and Eve. You must be letting your imagination speculate on dream scenarios; as is natural because you place trust in your human judgment for reading the meaning of Holy Scripture.

I was really overestimating your spiritual wisdom. Now you've let me down. With all respect, but-- You are likely one of those experts in the Bible that can predict the date for the end of the world. The woods are full of 'em, Will! Sorry!

-- eugene c. chavez (chavezec@pacbell.net), February 10, 2001.



Jmj

You are so right, Eugene, in saying to William:
"You must be letting your imagination speculate on dream scenarios; as is natural because you place trust in your human judgment for reading the meaning of Holy Scripture."

There are two terribly unfortunate and extremely common occurrences among well-meaning non-Catholics who perform unguided, private biblical interpretation:
(1) some do not perform "exegesis" (drawing OUT the meaning from Scripture) but rather "eisegesis" (reading INTO a passage whatever they have determined that it should mean, in keeping with their overall religious viewpoint);
(2) some get blinded by what they think they see in one verse, and they begin to overlook other verses that contradict the conclusion they have drawn.
The big problem is that they do not have the Fathers of the Church and the Magisterial documents (Catechism, etc.) to guide them, so they go astray. Their imagination sometimes runs wild.

For example, Genesis 4:1, which I quoted above, states: "Now Adam knew Eve his wife, and she conceived and bore Cain, saying, 'I have gotten a man with the help of the Lord.'"
A person doing exegesis (whether Catholic or not) is just about 100% likely to see, from this verse, that Adam was Cain's father. Notice that Eve conceived after intercourse with Adam, that Cain is a "man" (not half-human), and that the Lord God (creating a soul) helped Eve to have him.
But William, not doing proper exegesis, comes up with the most amazing conclusion: "So Cain was the evil one, and his father was Satan. ... Satan ... beguiled [Eve] with the wrong seed. It was the serpent's seed that brought forth Cain. It was Adam's seed that brought forth Abel and Seth."

How did William go wrong? I'm not sure if he is involved in eisegesis (trying to fit the facts about Cain to his overall religious framework). But I do see that he has misinterpreted the verses that I quoted from 1 John, and that has led him off the beaten track.
Now St. John wrote: "... we should love one another, and not be like Cain who was of the evil one."
And William states:
"But nowhere in the Bible [is] it said that ... Cain was Adam's son, because that the Bible said he was of that evil one. And Adam wasn't the evil one. See? He was of the evil one."
But St. John did not mean that Cain literally was a "son" of the evil one! The devil does not have the ability to make a woman pregnant! St. John meant his words figuratively -- i.e., that Cain gave in to the temptations of "the evil one" and freely chose to sin, allowing himself to be an "adopted son" of satan. The same St. John, in his gospel, uses similar figurative language to the Pharisees, who are hounding him:
"You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father's desires."

Sts. James and John, sons of Zebedee, pray for us.
God bless you.
John

-- J. F. Gecik (jgecik@desc.dla.mil), February 11, 2001.


Amen brother William for God sent you to minister well I was away with my family. My cousin was shot wth a nine millimeter four times. By Gods grace he is still alive and ok. I thank God that through Jesus I can go to the Father to be saved and pray.God grants peace in truth to those who turn from sin and tradition of man. Defend the faith thats what is going on til the day I die I will defend the faith in Jesus Chist who saves. Gods word is everlasting!

-- Saved by Jesus, Alex (Jesusislife@Christianemail.com), February 13, 2001.

Thank you dear Alex Jr. For someone who thinks ''religious activity'' will not save you,'' you really spend a lot of time in this Catholic forum. Maybe you think this ''work'' is going to help save you. But you're doing the devil's work, my friend.

My Lord and Saviour is Jesus Christ. He saves me too, because I keep His holy Words. His Church is the Catholic Church. Someday you will come into it and receive the last sacraments. Just in time to die. Then you can really say you're SAVED! See you in Purgatory, AlexJr!

-- eugene c. chavez (chavezec@pacbell.net), February 14, 2001.


You won't be going to puratory Eugene.

-- don faraci (ddfaraci@voyager.com), February 22, 2001.

Ahem, these keyboards! that was meant to read 'you won't be going to purgatory Eugene'.

-- don faraci (ddfaraci@voyager.com), February 22, 2001.

Dear Don-- I have a date in Purgatory, and I ought to know it. If I keep my nose clean. If you mean you don't believe in it, I'll probably meet you there as well as Alex. Alex better clean up his act, or he won't be in Purgatory, much less Heaven.

-- eugene c. chavez (chavezec@pacbell.net), February 22, 2001.

See you in Purgatory, Junior. I hope you can stay out of your master's hands (Cosa Mala) long enough to get to pugatory. He thinks right now he has a right to your soul. We have to fight him. I'll pray for you, Alex; that you make a good confession, before you die. If you do, you can die in God's grace. And then, the fires of purgatory, to make you spotless agin before you come into God's presence.

Dear Mother Mary, pray for your lost son, Alex Jr; that he may be saved from his errors and find true salvation in Christ Our Lord. Amen.
Saint James, Holy Apostle, Pray for us. Amen--

-- eugene c. chavez (chavezec@pacbell.net), February 24, 2001.


"Im doing the devils work for giving Gods word?"

Nope, by twisting it.

As for Purgatory, you can look in...Oh, that's right...you knew better than everyone else...so you deleted that book because Jesus didn't quote it, yet include ten others Jesus didn't quote, either.

Not only do you support a serious sin (deleting God's Word) but you're not even consistent about it. But, I suppose you won't see it because you don't want to, and will just move on with little more than a petulant nonsense answer to me that doesn't pertain to much of anything at all. Hey, if I get really lucky, maybe you'll respond with that work of fiction about ron and tony or some such characters...AGAIN... ....................................

-- anthony (fides_spes_et_caritas@hotmail.com), February 24, 2001.


Hey, Eugene, I hope you go straight to Heaven! And if we do both end up in Purgatory around the same time, I hope we can hang out together and chat. (I have no idea if chatting goes on there, but God *does* want us to love each other, after all. I don't think He'd try to keep people separated.)

-Hannah

-- Hannah (archiegoodwin_and_nerowolfe@hotmail.com), February 24, 2001.


Dear Hannah,
Purgatory is quite real. Don't pay attention to the false prophets in our midst. It is clear from the 2nd book of Machabees, Old Testament, that the Hebrews offered up prayers for their deceased, to release them from a place of suffering. We know from God's word that there's never any release from Hell. So, Purgatory is the place in which we suffer for a while before entering the Holy Presence of God. If the Hebrew people believed it, then Jesus also; and all of us have to believe it. It's the revealed truth of God. My own life is not blameless, and I know one day I have no choice but to suffer in Purgatory. No denial for this guy!

-- eugene c. chavez (chavezec@pacbell.net), February 24, 2001.

Hey, Eugene, don't worry! I do believe in Purgatory. No fear. ANd of course you know your own state better than I do. Then, if you figure you yourself HAVE to go to Purgatory, I hope it's for a real short time.

-Hannah

-- Hannah (archiegoodwin_and_nerowolfe@hotmail.com), February 24, 2001.


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