is there any church special act whereby a Christian can marry a Muslim with the blessings of preist?greenspun.com : LUSENET : Catholic : One Thread |
his holiness father,i had asked a question whether a christian marry a muslim,thank you i got a response,in that it is written that if the person allow me to raise my children as christians ,i can marry him,but i want to know if he agrees for this since he love me true,will we get permission from church to get married with all the blessings,we didnt do any sin ,we only love each other,will god stand with us or will he punish us,please answer me,please thank you very much with all my heart
-- zarina antony (zaach77@yahoo.com), February 22, 2001
His Holiness is not at this site. But I think I can tell you, yes.Yes, a priest will explain to you HOW to be married in the Catholic Church, with a person of a different religion. It is a very difficult thing to arrange. The non-Catholic must agree to allow his wife to raise the children as Catholics. The husband may be asked to convert. If he will not, then the priest will advise NO marriage with the sacrament. But, if the non-Catholic party (husband) promises to let the wife practice her religion, and promise NOT to obstruct the children from being good Catholics, the dispensation CAN be arranged.
Dear Zarina; This is how you will really know --How much your fiance loves you. He must agree to this --to be allowed the sacrament of Matrimony. If he really loves you, he will.
You are not allowed by the Church to abandon your faith for love of a man. Seriously, there is no other way, if you wish to remain a good Catholic. Do you want us here to pray for you?
-- eugene c. chavez (chavezec@pacbell.net), February 22, 2001.
JmjHello, friends.
Eugene, you mentioned something to Zarina that once was true, but no longer is. You stated, "The non-Catholic must agree to allow his wife to raise the children as Catholics."
The Church changed that rule when it promulgated the new (1983) Code of Canon Law. Here is the pertinent canon, which shows that the non-Catholic is not required to promise anything:Can. 1125 The local Ordinary [Bishop] can grant this permission [for a "mixed marriage"] if there is a just and reasonable cause. He is not to grant it unless the following conditions are fulfilled:
1° the Catholic party is to declare that he or she is prepared to remove dangers of defecting from the faith, and is to make a sincere promise to do all in his or her power in order that all the children be baptised and brought up in the Catholic Church;
2° the other party is to be informed in good time of these promises to be made by the Catholic party, so that it is certain that he or she is truly aware of the promise and of the obligation of the Catholic party
3° both parties are to be instructed about the purposes and essential properties of marriage, which are not to be excluded by either contractant.Since there is no longer any promise required, and since (I believe) Islam does not permit a Moslem man to have a Christian wife, Zarina may suffer greatly if she does not agree to convert to Islam (which, of course, she must never do). I would advise her and her friends who are in similar situations to make the great sacrifice of breaking off their engagements.
St. James, pray for us. Immaculate Mary, pray for us.
John
-- J. F. Gecik (jgecik@desc.dla.mil), February 23, 2001.
Maybe with God's grace it will become possible for Zarina to gain the conversion of her fiance. Never underestimate the power of God, Zarina. If you pray with all your heart for this young man's conversion; and implore him to pray as well to Allah, --NOT Mohammad-- for grace to be converted; I hope for you and for him this great favor might be granted. Let him at least speak with a good Catholic priest, and inquire what he can expect if he converts. You may gain him for Jesus Christ by your own prayers. Pray to the Blessed Virgin as well, and place your petition in her hands; that your husband may be welcomed into the Church! I will implore her for you myself, Zarina!
-- eugene c. chavez (chavezec@pacbell.net), February 23, 2001.
Yes, Eugene. The conversion of Moslem boyfriends (like those of Zarina and her girlfriends) would be a beautiful thing. One thing that makes such a conversion possible only through quite a miracle is the fact that, in some Moslem nations, conversions to Christianity are illegal and punishable by death. (In other places, where conversion is legal, I have heard that a man's family or associates may kill him for his betrayal.)
There is the potential for glorious martyrdom here.God bless you.
John
-- J. F. Gecik (jgecik@desc.dla.mil), February 24, 2001.
Well, Zarina, and John--
We realize Zarina would rather die than cause her fiance to be martyred. It would become his salvation, of course; and there are many good Muslims that believe martyrdom for the True God is glorious. In this man's case, it WOULD be the True God! But we pray he is converted and lives happily with Zarina and his children. God will protect His own, we shouldn't worry about it. Just pray Zarina, and have faith!Blessed Mother Mary, pray for us! Amen.
James, Holy Apostle of Jesus Christ, lead us and give us faith! Amen.
-- eugene c. chavez (chavezec@pacbell.net), February 24, 2001.
I sent this to Eugene personally, I thought I would resend as a response. Thanks :-)Hello there sir, I was searching the net to gather additional information. I wish to marry a Muslim man and he wishes to marry me, a Catholic woman. We are both extraordinary people. We both believe in our religion and have deep faith. How can you say that he would not love me if he does not convert? This is outrageous. Tell me, why should a man or woman convert just to get married. This reason is rediculous and wrong. A person should want to convert because they believe they are choosing a path to God or Allah. I will not convert to his religion nor him to mine. I admire that in him, he is strong in his beliefs. I would rather marry a strong Muslim than a weak Catholic. There is a lot to be said about a person who is strong in his/her beliefs. So you are saying that if my children are raised muslim that I am not allowed to marry? I truly believe that if God or Jesus were here on Earth, he would not banish us from the church. There is more than one path to God. The guy and love and myself, we are two people who are being persecuted because we are both strong in our faiths. But I see only the weak doing the pointing. I see the two of us as being an example to children of how strong our love for God is and that there is no one religion and to be open-minded and still be able to follow God. I'm sorry, I know all the divorce and sins and awful things in this world. My love and his for me is nothing short of an act of faith on both of our parts and I will not play the game of you must convert or else crap. Or the children must be raised this way. Children are not objects to win over. We are to teach them all ways and allow them to see for themselves what they believe. Please don't spread such horrible things. It's hard enough to find someone I love, and want to spend my life with forever and respect his beliefs, but am strong enough that I will remain Catholic and now I must teach others to quit being blind to the world and don't turn away others to make things worse. Thank you for your time. Sincerely, Catherine.
-- Catherine (quinicatorius@hotmail.com), December 26, 2001.
Hello, Kate.You are not viewing certain aspects of this as a Catholic must.
It appears that you are affected by the heresy of "religious indifferentism," thinking that one religion is as good as another. It seems that you would never to anything to try to lead your husband into Catholicism, even though our Church is the only one founded by the Son of God himself!You are correct in saying that neither you nor your Muslim friend can be forced to convert, but your plans for your children are not acceptable. In order to obtain your bishop's permission to marry a non-Catholic, you would be required to promise that you will do everything in your power to raise the kids as Catholics. But I gather that you will actually not do your best, instead allowing your Muslim husband to raise the kids in Islam -- or raising the kids in NEITHER religion, instead allowing them to get a mixed bag of conflicting doctrines from both sides.
Kate, the following words of yours are not compatible with making a promise to do all that you can to raise the children as Catholics: "Children are not objects to win over. We are to teach them all ways and allow them to see for themselves what they believe."
Can you serve, on your children's plates, items of various levels of nutrition and toxicity -- "teach[ing] them all ways" of eating? No, you must feed them only the most nutritious foods (analogous to Catholicism), not letting them "see for themselves what they" like to eat (believe). If left on their own, they are very unlikely to make the right choice. Take "Jihad Johnny" Walker Lindh, for example. Just go ahead and do what you are planning to do, Kate, and you may find your kids involved with something like Al Qaeda one day.God bless you.
John
-- (jfgecik@hotmail.com), December 26, 2001.
Dear Catherine:
I like the forthright and brave way you defend the love you and a Muslim have for one another. There's nothing at all wrong with that. You listen to your heart and let all the consequences go hang. But that is indifference to God's Will. God can give you a faithful loving husband, Muslim or otherwise-- and He can take the husband away. You are altogether in God's hands. He has your fiance in His hands as well. Don't you care what God thinks? Forget about what I say, or John or any other church-going Catholic. Our words you may dismiss. But concern yourself with the love you're expected to have for God. I'm sure the Muslim is first and foremost thinking of Allah's will, and afterwards about his marriage. Why should you offer God less than he?The sad part is, you're hoping to marry in a particularly bad situation. Love alone will never be able to resolve the radical differences between your two cultures and religious faiths. In a few years, the same man you think is crazy in love with you now will begin to see you as just an infidel. He will then try to force you to accept Islam. It's only my opinion, but I can't help seeing that eventual outcome for you. You're asking for a lot of trouble, Dear. Pray for God's help and guidance. Don't ask anyone less than Jesus Christ for His help. Because, the day will come otherwise, when you'll have to reject the Church of Jesus Christ. You'll become a Muslim, and that's all.
I'll pray for you myself.
-- eugene c. chavez (chavezec@pacbell.net), December 26, 2001.
To what Zarina wrote, and what others replied to her , like some of them did that , he/she beleives a muslim man cannot marry a christian woman, is TOTALLY wrong, in Islam, Muslim men are allowed to marry women of the book, that is jews and christian but NOT women, Muslim women can only marry muslim men. We're in the 21st century, and as to what i see around, inter faith marriages do end up longer than they used to, Since the younger generation is moving away from the extremism part. Extremists as i would say like "Al-Qaeda". That is not jihad. What jon Walker Lindh did cannot be dealt or meant as Jihad. Jihad means to struggle for a good cause. And that could be in any situation, either for fight in the way of god, bringing up your family in the best way is jihad for a man and a woman, preventing urself from commiting sins is jihad. Zarina if that man loves you he will marry you and do whatever it takes to make you happy and ur children with him to be happy . I have seen couples , Like yours, who got married had children , who were christianed after birth and they're stil married at 65, 70 years of age. The world is not like it used to be with Muslims now. They're moving away from illeteracy and extrmism and knowing the true meaning of lie while holding on to their own faith and respecting others too. If he truly loves you, he wouldn't think twice about having christian hildren from you, even if the faith doesn't allow and maybe accepting christianity could be possible if u relate to him about the truth in the bible with the world around him. Thinks dont always lean towards the dark. You can do what you belive you can do.
-- Ali (touchmate_77@hotmail.com), October 30, 2002.
Muslims pray only to Allah and nobody else (including Muhammed (pbuh)). They higily esteem Jesus Christ(pbuh) and saying a blasphemous word againt him could mean "forsaking islam". What joins them is the fact that they believe in one and the same God. Detailed concepts such as trinity and porphethood may vary but donot imply that living together of such two people is impossible. Childeren should be raised so that they can have essential understanding of both religions and can choose for themselves.Donot forget that there is a chapter on Mary (pbuh) and Jesus(pbuh) Christ in quran just like Muhammed (pbuh), which underlies my above mentioned point!!!!!!!!!
-- Jawad (jawadwasiq@yahoo.com), January 08, 2003.
Real simple question: what is pbuh?In Christ.
-- Jake Huether (jake_huether@yahoo.com), January 08, 2003.
Hi, Jake H.
I'll answer you, because of the possibility that Jawad won't be returning, and because I want to express an opinion about this.The abbreviation "pbuh" stands for "peace be upon him/her." It is intended as an Islamic sign of respect to holy human beings. Until today, I thought it was reserved to those men whom Islam considers prophets. This is the first time I have seen it used with our Blessed Mother's name.
Before you started coming to the forum, we had a period of visits by several Moslems. In fact, it was in the spring and summer of 2001, leading right up to 09/11. I remember asking those visitors to please not use "pbuh" here at Catholic forum, for a few reasons:
(1) Its presence, in written form, chops up a sentence and makes it harder for me to understand.
(2) To me, the very words didn't make sense, in English. (Why wish "peace" to holy people who are dead and presumably in heaven?) In other words, I thought that "pbuh" might be an inaccurate translation of an Arabic phrase.
(3) As a Catholic at a Catholic forum, I found it improper for a non-Christian to be wishing "peace" to be "upon" almighty God (Jesus).
(4) No disrespect intended, but every time I saw, "pbuh," it made me think of "peanut butter."I seem to recall that the visitors in 2001 either stopped using "pbuh" or used it less after I made this request (but I could be mistaken).
God bless you.
John
-- J. F. Gecik (jfgecik@hotmail.com), January 08, 2003.
Jawad, you said,Childeren should be raised so that they can have essential understanding of both religions and can choose for themselves.
In the United States our media tells us that in Saudi Arabia, for example, Christianity is repressed by the (Islamic) State. As a Muslim, do you have any ideas on how we could make Muslims be more tolerant of Christians?
Frank
-- Someone (ChimingIn@twocents.cam), January 09, 2003.
Hello Zarina and Catherine,Congratulations on your engagements! May you enjoy a long and happy married life with your respective husbands. I cannot offer you any information about the Catholic Church's position on your intended marriage, but I would like to say to you, as you are (hopefully) going to marry a Muslim (as I have done!), you will have certain rights over your husband, and obligations towards him. Among your rights is that your husband must provide for your expenses while you maintain your own financial independence; he must pay you a Mahr that is a gift to you on your marriage- whatever you agree between yourselves as a symbol of love and affection; and among your obligations is that you must not commit adultery. There are too many aspects to go into here, but the overall result is a beautiful balance of rights and duties between the marriage partners.
I would say to you, before you get married, please learn as much as you can about Islam. Talk to women who are married to Muslims, who can give you the benefit of their experience. Please feel free to email me anytime if you would like to ask a question or just to chat.
Peace,
Um Danyaal
p.s. Are you going to have a Nikkah ceremony?
-- Um Danyaal (UmDanyaal@surfy.net), January 22, 2003.
Hello I wanted to say, no I'm not married and nor was I engaged. The muslim i was interested in spoke similarly as many do here. Sure, Christians can marry Muslim and vice versa, but when it came down to it, his family was against it completely. Frankly, he didn't have the balls to go against what his familie's prejudices. I think it is hooey, . .blah blah, love will get you through. Well, I'm here to say that's not true. There are many more consequences and obstacles to overcome that most are not aware of. Once you marry, people often change their minds. Overall, I'm glad we didn't marry. I've studied Islam and continue to do so and overall opinion is that it is more difficult for two different religions, much less cultures to get along long-term. If two americans, one jewish, one catholic, that is much different than two different races, religions, cultures marrying. Take the problems times 1000. Granted there's always an exception, but I would not want my daughter or son to ever have to go through what I had to learn the very hard way.I try now to stay away from people not my religion cause I know the problems it will cause, but does that stop me? Nah, I think I'd still be willing to date and try all over again. I guess I'm looking for more punishment. But I know deep down I'm not sinning.
-- Kate (quinicatorius@hotmail.com), January 25, 2003.