I live in an area that is almost suburbs for the past 2 weeks the red wolves, a pack of at least 3 are getting closer to my land howling.Every night they get a little closer.It makes me wonder why aren,t these wolves being released in washington D.C..I,m sure they once existed there also..Why not repopulate Manhatten N.Y..Surely they existed there also.I consider myself an naturalist.But the area I live in is so over populated,I'm surprised there enough land and wild food to feed foxes.The wolves run here like a pack of stray dogs .Coming to farms to eat calves and now casing my place to figure how their going to eat my goats.I farm to survive and feed my children.I,m partly disable and I don't receive any Gov't assistence.It fustrates me to know someone has a PET PROJECT and they get paid to experiment to see if these wolves can survive a second chance at the wild at mine and others expence.I am not a cattle farmer with a thousand head of cattle.Losing a goat means the family will lose weight.I,d like to know are others having this problem.What are the legall ways of handeling this type of problem.What are the alternitive ways of handling this problem.

-- steve wright (a12goat@cs.com), February 26, 2001

Answers

My first step would be to call or go visit the Game and Fish dept or Parks and Wildlife dept. Explain how Your fears are real and show (get the "Law" to come see how secure Your place is) and take pictures of your fences. Should You have any losses this may be of help in recieving funds to replace any losses. True this may not be the solution to the problem but it may be a starting point in case You have lossec. Also should there be any losses take pictures of the animal and any draging marks that may be around to determine if the Wolves are the Guilty ones. God Bless and and have a GREAT week.

-- Charles steen (xbeeman412@aol.com), February 26, 2001.

What state are you in Steve?Anytime,wolves are released you will be compensated for any losses by the government.

-- nobrabbit (conlane@prodigy.net), February 26, 2001.

Handle it the same as wild dog packs ,shoot, shovel and shut up.

-- Daryll (twincrk@hotmail.com), February 26, 2001.

Red wolves or coyotes? The only Red wolfs I have heard about is in some southern coastal(?) wild area, maybe the Carolinas.

-- Lynn Goltz (lynngoltz@aol.com), February 26, 2001.

I sure can understand your frustration but you maybe better think twice about shooting and shoveling. Up here in Wisconsin I know of an individual who shot one of those gov't planted turkeys and they traced that potlicker all the way to his freezer. Results= big fine!! Lesson to learn here - ya never know when they tag those suckers!

-- Pat (mikulptrc@aol.com), February 26, 2001.

I am guessing you live in Florida since that is Red wolf territory.I agree with Daryl.Anything that comes on my property and menaces my livestock is quietly buried in the adjoining forest.There are no exceptions.There is no legal way of handling this problem unless you are willing to sacrifice your goats and then try to collect from the state.Your family can lose a lot of weight that way.

-- JT in Florida (gone2seed@hotmail.com), February 26, 2001.

Hello Steve, The folks out in Montana are having a similiar problem, but instead of red wolves it is grizzly bears. Don't talk about them to anyone. If they cross your property lines just shoot them and bury them. The folks in Montana have learned the hardway. They threatened to kill the grizzlies and the game wardens are now patrolling and they too are carrying weapons to defend the lives of the grizzly bears. You do not want that hassle I am sure. Do as I and the other posters have to do. Shoot, shovel, shutup. Sincerely, Ernest www.communities.msn.com/livingoffthelandintheozarks

-- Ernest in the Ozarks (espresso42@hotmail.com), February 26, 2001.

Ok here goes, enjoy the wild animals while you can as in the next 10 to 20 years the only wolfs, bears, possibly coyote,tigers, rinos, ect you will see will be in zoos! Our children will possibly never see a wild animal loose in there lifes.There children definitly wont! Animal encroachment is OUR fault. We as a people are covering so much wild land that there is very little wild environment left, and we just keep building!Watched a coyote once hunting ground squirels, what a magnificent animal.If the wolfs were introduced you will be reimbursed for any losses. Get a pair of binoculers and study them with your kids . you have a sight that most people will NEVER see.

-- kathy h (ckhart55@earthlink.net), February 27, 2001.

If wild animals are only expected to be around for the next 10 or 20 years then all the projects that are releasing and protecting wild animals is a waste of time,money and livestock.Subdivisions are popping up like mushrooms on a spring morning in almost every part of the U.S..It is obvious to anyone paying attention Human population is dagerously out of control.Gov't should put it's energy and money toward puplic education on future voluntary population reduction.Even an awareness through public services annoucement and education in schools on this important subject don,t exist.I figure it,s because gov,t is influenced by large corporations who contribute large amounts of money, and the corporations may see population reduction = reduced profits.(just guessing) Another fact is the area I live in has been clear cut so many times alot of native trees and shrubs that used to exist here that provided a balanced diet for the released wild life are extinct or endanged.Leaving the animals appitite unsatisfied causing them to get there missing vitamins and minerals from domesticly feed livestock that have these missing nutrients in there meat from the vitamin enriched feeds.Wolves eat nuts ,berries,seeds and greens,besides meat.The problem, like with dogs that eat livestock, is not the wolves but their owners.In this case the U.S. gov't.They are released in an area that is damaged and can no longer sustain them properly.This has not been researched properly. It's an experiment. It's like bringing home some new livestock without buying the food first on a weekend holiday when all the feed stores are closed.I don't want to kill the wolves,they are victims of wildlife missmanagement also.As far as being copensated,and watching with binoculers,24 years ago I asked someone why do we have to pay social security taxes.The answer was so if you become disable or retire you'll get some money to help feed you.Ive been fighting a year for that money.Still haven't seen a dime.You only get compesation for lost animals if you can prove it was a wolf.Haven't lost any animals yet, I don't know if that's easy to prove.And i don't want my chidren watching the goats get eatin through a pair of binoculers.Our milkers are pets like the family dog.

-- Steve Wright (a1goat@cs.com), February 27, 2001.

I messed on on the e-mail adress in my last post and hope it won't cause technical problems ,this is the correct one

-- steve wright (a12goat@cs.com), February 27, 2001.

Steve W, every thing you said I agree with, wondered if the watching the wolfs eat the goats would come up. I meant study the wolfs to learn about them, family groups , leader ect. I can understand your worrys. Maybe you could make lemons out of lemonaid and pitch a couple of tents on your land and have people pay to get a chance to watch the wolfs, might be lucrative.

-- kathy h (ckhart55@earthlink.net), February 28, 2001.

Kathy, we don't get to see the wolves.It's night time when they come around.We hear them .We have seen them a few miles from the house.Crossing the road.They come around the house after 12 midnight and howl up the hill from us.A neighbor used the shoot ,shovel and shut up method with another neighbors dog because, it killed one of his cats.It wasn't the right thing to do (in this case) because the dog that was killed, a black retriver, use to keep the wolves, coyotes and other wildlife away. Since that dogs death, the wolves started coming around here.It doesn't help much that farmers are stereo type as ruthless villians trying to destroy nature.That's the message I've seen, when ever enviormentalist write about the famers who are not letting these animals ruin their way of life.I to am part of nature and have a natural instinct to provide healthy nutrition to my children and defend them from harm weather it be from a direct attack from the wolves or an attack on their food supply.And anyone who belives these animals do not attack human , should know the same has been said about coyotes that have attacked first pets then children in sothern california ,and last year a women was killed and eatin by a black in eastern tenn.this is not something that effects only farmers.Eventually as the wolves start getting prolific and the price of meat maybe doubles,or triples ,the farmers will get the publics support. Maybe the gov' and enviormentalist should be fair and go all the way , in making it how it was 500 years ago.Remove all europeans and none native human, and repopulate all indiginous people (the Indians),wolves elk bison ,more people would understand,you just can't make it the way it was.What next cloned dinosaurs.?I'm glad elephants weren't a native spieces.I don't mean to be so head strong but, intil it happens to you personaly you just won't understand.I don't want to be the one put in a zoo by trying to collect compensation from the gov't which probably isn't as easy as it may sound .Or beg a welfare check .

-- Steve (a12goat@cs.com), February 28, 2001.

The women was killed by a black bear.No black wolves here.And I have nothing against enviormentalist .I'm sure they are doing what they belive is right.But as I keep repeating, It's an experiment and since my family is affected that makes us guinea pigs.

-- Steve (a12goat@cs.com), February 28, 2001.

Gotta love our Government!!! (They DID have gov't approval for this little project, didn't they??)

No wonder wolves are thought to eat farmers and ranchers out of house and home!!! Its our own stupid gov't causing these horrible rumors!!!

Call, write, email your legislators first. City, County, State, Fed. Fish and Game, BLM whatever. Put it in the paper.

We have that problem out here with the Grizzlies (and gray wolves). I want them reintroduced, but let's face it.... They don't stay in their own backyard, they will be all over the place. At least they could make sure there is enough food and shelter before trying to release them!!!

Getting it here is a good step too.....

And in answer to the title post: Cause the rich people (lobbyists, etc.) are too stupid to bother thinking about what they are doing!!!!!!!!!!

-- Sue Diederich (willow666@rocketmail.com), February 28, 2001.

== Get a pair of binoculers and study them with your kids . you have a sight that most people will NEVER see. ==

You can watch thru your binoculars as those critters attack your kids. As long as the government, pushed by activists, insists on doing dumb things, the 3 S's will prevail.

-- ~Rogo (rogo2020@yahoo.com), March 02, 2001.

Here in N MO and S IA, the DNR has been releasing animals/critters and NOT telling anyone. DH moves dirt for a living, building ponds, terraces, etc. One of the pieces of land that they did some work on building a huge pond/lake on was one that the DNR had released rattlesnakes on (since when are rattle snakes on the endangered list? ) When one guy was almost bit, they contacted the DNR and that is how they found out that the snakes had been released. Ok - rattle snakes are not indigineous to this area of Iowa - they are to SE IA but not S central IA.

Also in N. MO panthers have been let loose to "re-populate" and they are coming into S. Ia where they are not indigneous either.

We have enough problems with coyotes and wild dogs, who needs animals that don't belong here any way?

-- beckie (sunshine_horses@yahoo.com), March 02, 2001.

Be careful when using the triple S method. Our government in it's infinate wisdom and coupled with an endless supply of our CASH; is now using transmitters on the Wolf, and other animals that they are introducing or reintroducing into the farmlands of America.

The transmitters do not stop working when the animal is killed. They may continue to work for a couple of years (until the batteries go dead). So the animal buried on your farm, might be tracked by radio transmissions. Especially troublesome, and very expensive too are the microchip transmitters that are inserted under the skin of the Wolf and other animals that they want to track. The microchip transmitter (under the skin) cannot be seen and would keep on transmitting whether the animal was dead or alive. Big brother is LISTENING, even if the animal is in it's grave.

Here in Ohio we do not have Wolves, as far as I know. But we do have dog packs to contend with. I and others do raise goats, and there is a program which compensates for goat kills by dogs. It wotks like this: I have a dead goat.

I must prove that the goat was killed by a dog, beyond a shadow of a doubt.

Then I must present my case to the county commissioners. In my county they meet on monday morning, the first monday of each month.

Then if they agree that I have PROVED that the kill was done by dogs, I will (eventually) be paid. I will get the fair amount allowed by Ohio law:

$20. BIG DEAL.

So perhaps the three S method has some merit, BUT; it might not be a good idea to bury near where I live. Perhaps the dead animal could be dumpstered, or dumped on the doorstep of the local court house. The third s might also be substituted with "snares". It might be a good idea to set snares where they run (off of my property), and forget it. Wolves, dogs, and so on would die right away, and the other varmits of the woods; like buzzards and possums would take care of the leftovers.

-- Ed Copp (OH) (edcopp@yahoo.com), March 03, 2001.

Ed's right the 3S method doesn't work anymore. You have to find and destroy the chip, which is like finding a needle in a haystack. It may be better to leave it out in the open for scavengers, perhaps incinerate it. Big Brother is tracking. Which is why theses dangerous animals are being "reintroduced"; to keep you out of their U.N. biospheres. Non of this is because of blundering idiot politicians or environmental concerns, it is about controling your lands, relocating people, and to keep hidden what they are really doing in these forest where the public is not allowed to go. They are not counting trees.

-- Bob Smith (WY) (bob@bob.com), February 15, 2002.

Send the wolves out my way. We could watch em play with the cougars and coyotes. thanks jz

-- jz (oz49us@yahoo.com), March 17, 2002.

Wow, I can really understand and empthaize with you Steve. I can't agree more with what the majority have said here about it being the govt's responsibility to choose a correct niche for them. I also agree with preservation of wild animals and understand the issues that can come up once a animal is extinct from a food chain.

HOWEVER, I really don't think folks are true homesteaders if they believe that wolves or other carnivores are to be allowed to kill livestock. Dear gosh, where on earth do they think their milk, meat, eggs, etc come from? If wolves kill off all the goats, calves, etc, then there is no longer the supply to meet the demand. And unfortunately their livelhoods become trheatened by killing their means of a living with farm animals.

I see both sides here, however, there needs to somehow be a consenous and meeting in the middle. Its easy to comment about how nice it is to preserve them as Kathy mentioned, but on the other hand these animals are capable of destruction to domestic livestock. Think about the other side for a minute Kathy, how would you feel if you were a farmer and had to witness a wolf, etc killing your beloved goats or other farm animals. Its not a pretty site to see and the pain the animal has to endure as they are attacked is awful. Think about that animal screaming for its life as the wolf tears into its flesh and kills them. The poor animal crying for its life, sufferring.

We ahve livestock guard dogs, 4 in every pasture, and I made it a point to get a breed that will literally kill any predators that come near the goats. See Kathy, you don't understand either I don't believe, that some folks make a living farming and to loose livestock can bankrupt us and kill us financially. I cannot afford to loose my business let alone the goats I so love. I have invested thousands of dollars in my breedings and animals.

I am only asking that you try to see the other hand in this case. I don't expect you to agree with it, you obviously don't, however, please consider the entire picture. You make some excellent points about preserving them. I see yours, please try to see ours and others on the posts.

-- Bernice (geminigoats@yahoo.com), March 17, 2002.

Oh, forgot to mention Kathy, the government doesn't pay much for livestock attacked and lost from wolves, or other animals. The farmers are not paid the value of the animal lost, so if you have say valuable bloodlines or milkers, etc, you will NEVER get the full replacement value. And if the lines are rare, then you can never bring back the lines or genetics of the animal.

Please consider this, if you have a animal that is a top show animal or producer and worth thousands of dollars that the govt will readily cough up a check for that amount to compensate? Not likely. Oh sure, you can write it off on taxes, but you still never can recoop the investments.

I want to clarify this, guess because its late and my black lab is distracting me i haven't been able to articulate that I agree with you about it being the govts fault, they should release those animals in remote areas.

-- Bernice (geminigoats@yahoo.com), March 17, 2002.