please help, we just aquired a 6 month old jack that has never been around humans, he almost lets us touch him.. we managed to get a halter on him with 3 people and manage to get him from one place to another with one person behind him.. he is obviosly very scared and we are very gentle with him. he has taken alfalfa from our hand. and is curios about what we are doing when we are doing things ouside his pen, we have had him for 2 days now, we do not want to rush it and do not want to make mistakes and ruin him, what would be the next best coarse of action with him? we have named him oliver and is the cutest thing we have ever seen.. please help thanks, mark & janny

-- mark biggs (markbiggs@yahoo.com), March 04, 2001

Answers

If you've only had him for 2 days and have a halter on him already, then you're doing good. Although, I think I would slow down a bit on wanting to make progress with him. Spend time in his area, feeding him out of your hand like you're doing and petting him while he eats his grain (or whatever). The biggest thing is for him to build trust with you. If you keep man handling him when he has no understanding then I'd think you'll just make him panic. Give it a couple more days of just being around him, petting, talking, etc. Then slowly start working with him. Do alot of petting and gradually work up to leading him with the halter. Don't rush it!! You may do more harm than good.

-- Pat (mikulptrc@aol.com), March 04, 2001.

Mark, go over to egroups.com now called Yahoogroups.com and find the Donkey list. They are wonderfully helpful. I can tell you the progress they helped me make with their donkey sense has been wonderful! They are very different than horses, which is all I had knowledge of. Hope yours bring you as much joy as mine do! Vicki

-- Vicki McGaugh TX (vickilonesomedoe@hotmail.com), March 04, 2001.

Mark -- Congratulations on your jack! I'm envious (am also wanting donkeys.) Please do not feed Oliver alfalfa as it is pretty high in protein, which results in fat and can cause founder. Hopefully Rogo and Vicki can you give more advice on Donkey Raising-101. You may also want to check out the YAHOO groups--they have several different donkey boards which are wonderful. Keeping Oliver in a small pen and just sitting with him will get him accustomed to you. Give natural treats of carrots for him to bond with you. Do you have other animals for company with your donkey? Caution--Rogo/Vicki need to give more advice on your donkey's young age before you put Oliver with other animals as donkeys are rather playful for the first 3 years of age.

Donkeys are like goats--they are very social/herd companions and do better in pairs (then you get addicted and have ALOT more!) As stated, I don't have donkeys yet but learning as much as I can till the day I'm blessed with them.... Good luck, enjoy and I'd love to hear of your progress!

-- Marsha (CaprisMaa@aol.com), March 04, 2001.

My father has donkeys and sometimes gets one that hasen't been handled (petted). I think you are doing the right thing, just keep it up. Give him some time to get used to you, keep offering treats out of your hand, move slow so you don't startle him, be around where is is as much as you can so he can see you doing the things you do. I think donkeys are very curious and that they like to be a part of things. When he lets you touch him gently rub his nose, face, between his eyes, he soon will be calling to you every time he sees you wanting some more petting-and he will not be ignored! Good luck and hope you enjoy him. Dian

-- Dian Hoffman (rhoffman@nctc.com), March 04, 2001.

There are some good answers here. Grass hay is better for your animal, they're evolved to do well on less nutrition than alfafa packs. It is a good idea to get your jack desensitized to handling every portion of his anatomy, including sticking fingers up nostrils (if you ever have to tube the horse, your vet will thank you), ears, mouth (for floating teeth -- best to get them looked at ASAP by your vet. They have found that you need to work on teeth from early on, not wait until they're 8 years old as old timers used to think. Prevent problems with the mouth before they get started and aren't correctable), under tail (thermometers...), picking up feet, and so on.

I would not handfeed treats to your jack. The worst bites I have ever had have been from donkeys and burros, usually ones that someone handfed, who are now DEMANDING treats be rendered by biting. Hand- feeding some timothy is okay, but put carrots into a feed pan or bucket -- they will know who it is from. Put the treat in the bucket, but don't move away. They will still come to you and get a treat, but they will not think that they should get it out of your hand. Skritching is also a treat for equines. If you start around the neck/withers area it acts as friendly reciprocal grooming, such as horses and donkeys do to another one that they want to be friends with, and such as mothers do. I got an ingrown halter off of a filly who was 'unhandleable' and a kicker inside of half an hour working from this point and gradually working my way up to the halter so I could get it off her. The idea is to work slowly and repeat so that the animal realizes that it does not hurt them and they become desensitized by repeated action.

I strongly recommend getting either the book or tapes by Pat Parelli on training horses. They will stand you in good stead. Richard Miller's book on training is also very good, he works extensively with mules by preference.

-- julie f. (rumplefrogskin@excite.com), March 04, 2001.

Since my name's been mentioned....-LOL-

My trail riding partner is a Mammoth donkey. I've also had the Standards and Miniatures. My Mammoth has sired many mules.

Put your donk in a small corral. Take something to read, drink, smokes if ya need them, and sit in the middle of the corral. Ignore the donk. Read your magazine, book, whatever, out loud. If the donk approaches, ignore him. Keep reading out loud. You will not be able to work with this critter until you earn his trust. His curiosity will have him inspecting you. Pretty soon, you'll know it's right. Hold your hand up slowly and touch his leg, shoulder, whatever's comfortable. If he doesn't move, slowly remove your hand. He may move away. Fine, ignore it.

Little by little, progress will be made. It may go slow, since the 3 of you forced yourselves on him with the halter, on top of his not being previously handled. Rub, don't pat him once he lets you touch him. Once he allows you to rub all over him, put the halter on the ground and let him sniff around it. Leaving a halter on a critter is an accident waiting to happen. They have strangled to death on fence posts, bathtub (when used as a waterer) protrusions, and various other items. Also, when they use their hind foot to scratch their chin, the hoof can get stuck in the halter. Not a pretty site. It's best only to put a halter on when you are going to use him.

When he's comfortable with the nylon monster, slowly pick it up and rub his body with it. Don't rush it. Eventually he'll allow you to put it on him. Again, you have to earn his trust. This all may be accomplished the first day, or can take several days. If you find yourself getting mad or frustrated, leave. Cool off. Come back when you've found your patience :-)

Donkeys should NOT be fed legumes like alfalfa nor any grains. To keep him healthy and prevent other problems (like training him, hoof and leg problems, colic, etc.), feed a grass pasture or grass hay. Do NOT feed cattle hay. Give him a trace mineral salt block, and have fresh water always available. Feed NOTHING by hand. This is how babies learn to bite.

The equine have small stomachs, which is why they are a grazing critter. Your donk will do much better if you free feed him the grass hay or pasture and he can nibble throughout the day/night.

I don't know what other critters you have, but some jacks can impregnate as young as 8 months.

The training of manners is most important with any critter. It would be great if someone around you has the experience. Some recommend these big name trainers. I went to a Pat Parelli clinic. I was grateful I didn't take any of my critters with me. He would've ruined all my work. Many of us left early, as we were sure someone was going to get killed. These men have found a way to fill their pockets; use your head before following any suggestions.

Good luck and enjoy your baby.

-- ~Rogo (rogo2020@yahoo.com), March 05, 2001.

I am not going to get into a *** contest on this subject, however, I will comment that I fail to see how making a living from training horses equates with an implication to misbegotten gain. I have seem Parelli in action and the results with horses. I still recommend him, and suggest that you visit his site to have a look.

BY PAT PARELLI

When you first got into horses, you were probably told to watch out when the horse put his ears back because that was a sign that he was going to bite or kick you. But that was it.

To this day, thousands of horse owners are no wiser than that about the body language of their horses. One of the best ways to learn more about a horse's body language and expressions is to simply spend some time watching horses together in all situations. Be especially sure to watch a mare and her foal interacting with other horses. Being able to read and correctly interpret a horse's reactions will help you understand why a horse behaves as he does, and you'll be less likely to blame him or punish him for it.

Most people don't know when a horse is going to run off, run over them, buck, kick, strike, when he's worried, frightened, defensive, bad tempered, bored or toying with them. In teaching people to become horsemen, the single most important skill to develop is how to read a horse. That's what will keep you safe, help your diagnosis of problems, and improve your approach and timing. Start by studying your own horse. Sometimes you won't have realized what you read until it is followed by an action. Then you can put two and two together.

Parelli Natural Horse-Man-Ship strives to improve the lives and relationships of horses and their humans by developing the ideal of horses as partners.

This goal can be attained through knowledge and comprehension of Parelli Natural Horse-Man-Ship (PNH). In promoting an understanding of prey animal psychology, PNH will assist in educating horse lovers everywhere, across all disciplines, in what is possible through self- development as natural horsemen. Mental, emotional and physical fitness combined with assertiveness and leadership can promote less predatory attitudes towards life in general. It is the sincere hope of PNH that all who are involved with horses will be inspired to become true horsemen, naturally.

Parelli Natural Horse-Man-Ship is committed to promoting the philosophy, ideas and ideals of natural horsemanship. To further this goal, everything this publication, its contributors and advertisers do and promote with regard to horses will be natural. We will do everything possible to examine techniques, philosophies, situations and products from the horse's point of view. As a result, we will act with non-predatory intentions or actions.

A guide for defining what IS natural would include: - No artificial aids; simplicity of rope halter; a 12-foot line/lead rope, carrot stick, a 22-foot line/lead rope, a 45-foot line/lead rope, snaffle bridle, natural hackamore, (port mouth bits- unjointed, for advanced refinement only). - Ground skills and riding skills - No punishment, positive reinforcement-cause right thing to be easy and wrong thing to be difficult - Positive, progressive and natural attitude - Fun! Creative.

Things NOT natural would include: - Artificial aids: nosebands to tie mouth shut, chains over the nose, martingales, tie downs, draw reins, side reins, twisted wire bits, gags, tom thumbs, scissor bits, jointed long shanks, any bit that is designed to apply greater pressure and leverage on a horse than a snaffle. - Throwing, tarping, four-way hobbling, blindfolding, cross- tying, drugging, twitching, etc. - Misuse of spurs. - Misuse of bit (rough, hard, insensitive). - Punishment. - Predatory/aggressive attitude. - Forcing a horse physically without engaging his mind, allowing him to think or asking his permission. - Lack of ground skills as a teaching program. - Lack of imagination in training/teaching. - Lack of fun. - Goals of winning more important than principles of horsemanship.

* * * * * http://www.parelli.com/

-- julie f. (rumplefrogskin@excite.com), March 08, 2001.

== I have seem Parelli in action and the results with horses. I still recommend him, and suggest that you visit his site to have a look. ==

I HAVE seen his sites and ads thru the years. 'Scuse me, but what a crowd of folks watched him do isn't on his sites.

-- ~Rogo (rogo2020@yahoo.com), March 09, 2001.

Hi from the southwest, Mark. I just HAPPENED to be surfing on the web today and was looking over our own local longears club website and there is a lot of info there on everything, plus a sub-heading called "Sophia's Training Tips".. good, basic, useful info. This website is http://members.aol.com/riolongear/, but there are lots of mule & donkey websites around and this site also has a good "links" sub-heading. Also, check out the ADMS (American Donkey & Mule Society) site. Lots of links. Good luck to you and your donk. Take your time, be patient; donkeys NEVER forget... good experiences OR bad ones! dh in nm

-- debra in nm (dhaden@nmtr.unm.edu), March 09, 2001.

Rogo, Julie and Debra have said what I wanted to say but better.

Join the ADMS, very worthwhile since you are a donkey owner Now!

http://www.donkeys.com/ADMS.html

-- 11 donkey owner (newsrc@txcyber.com), March 09, 2001.