Jesus saves, are you saved by grace, or do you think your works are going to save you? : LUSENET : Catholic : One Thread

Greetings: The Lord has promised salvation to those who turn from their sins excepting Jesus as Lord and savior. If you havent done this then you arent saved. Romans 4:4-5 Now when a man works, his wages are not credited to him as a gift, but as an obligation. However, to the man who does not work but trusts God who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness. God is not obligated to give us anything for our works, its a gift of salvation in Jesus Christ that the Lord desires to give to us. If you arent trusting in Jesus as savior then you are slave to sin, trusting in your own works. Jesus died for you, to give you forgiveness, peace, joy, eternal life. I hope you come to know him personally.

-- Alex a follower of Jesus (, March 06, 2001


You're preaching to the choir. Just out of curiousity (and I mean this question is all seriousness) where did you learn whatever you know about the Catholic Church? You were obviously never a Catholic, and I doubt that you've attended classes or even a Mass. So just where did you learn what you know, or at least where did you start? Was it a person, a book, a website?


-- anthony (, March 06, 2001.

This is where you see if miracles do happen, Anthony. You ask this phony a direct question or two. It will be a miracle if he gives you any answer, other than his ''holy'' graffiti. He is no practicing Catholic; anybody can see that.

He claims to ''serve'' Jesus'', to ''follow'' Jesus and to be saved by ''faith'' in Jesus. All these are falsehoods. You can't serve or follow Jesus by making up lies about your own backgrund. Or by telling lies about Catholics. So he's not only not serving Jesus, he can't even be ''saved'' by his own definition: not being a sinner anymore. Lying and detraction are sins. Therefore, AlexJr is a ''slave to sin'', as he likes to call others.

But even this exposure of the truth about Alex is no real use. He will ignore it and try to continue his brainwashing routine, as he's done now for many weeks. The solution is plain. He's been ''yellow-carded'' by the forum moderater, and came right back with the same pesty interference. I have to think he should be permanently banned.

-- eugene c. chavez (, March 06, 2001.

Okay, I think I get a bit more of where you're coming from, but please understand two things:

"if you do good go to church they are good enough"


"To exalt Mary into a place she herself would never take"

are not Church teachings. You can't fault the Church because some people do or practice false things in her name, nor can you accurately say the Church teaches these things. Many people believe the Church does, but this is not true. The Pope doesn't say, "we don't need Jesus, we've got Mary." He doesn't even say to pray to Mary for her to affect the situation about which you pray...she's just one more person praying to Jesus with you. Nor does he say, "go to Mass, feed the hungry and you're saved."

When we have gotten angry with you, it is because things like that are frequently in your posts, and you make it seem as if these things are offical Church teachings. When we tell you that they're not, you don't usually acknowlege the post. Instead you move on to something else, and the next week, say the same things we've just told you aren't true. That is what is angering and frustrating.

Now one of two things has happened, either whoever taught you about Church teachings misinformed you, or you misunderstood what they taught. Either way, I would say that at least 99% of what you have 'revealed' about the Church and her teachings in your time here is untrue. That is what we take issue with.

Nobody is saying you have to agree with us (indeed, there are many differing opinions on this board), but we are saying that you must allow us to correct you when you've gotten one of our teachings or practices wrong. After all...we know what those teachings and practices are! I've found myself corrected a few times as well. When I am, I double check the information, and if I'm in error, I adjust my thinking to reflect the new information. We're simply asking that you do the same, instead of continuously repeating untrue or misleading things about our Church.

As I'm sure you can tell, emotions are starting to run high again, and before you find yourself sitting on the curb, you may wish to adjust these behaviours.

Just some advice...take it, don't take it...but I warn you that if you don't your time here is likely drawing to a close.

I wish you luck and hope you make the right decision.


-- anthony (, March 07, 2001.

I think Eugene should be BANNED from the forum for his sarcasm. Do you know that the word for sarcasm in the Greek means... the tearing of flesh... I would think that God finds that very displeasing.

-- SSM (non-catholic follower of Jesus Christ) (, March 07, 2001.

Dear Alex, Susan--
Let me be banned if I ever intruded in your forum to pour scorn on your beliefs. What I've attempted is not to be sarcastic, but reductio ad absurdum; treating the trash you've forced upon us here with what it deserved: ridicule. What else is effective, please tell us, against your concerted efforts to demean our Church? You won't accept our sincere interpretations of the Holy Scriptures, even when they are clear as day. You belittle and reject the Mother of Jesus Christ, solely because she does not fit into your scheme of things. You continuously interfere in the conversations of Catholics who did not invite your opinions.

You leave me and others no choice but to make you the butt of satire. It's either that, or surrender the forum to your flagrant abuse of the freedom of speech.

-- eugene c. chavez (, March 08, 2001.


I love the Mary, the mother of Jesus. I don't love the way you have changed her role as His mother.

May God give you eyes to see.

-- SSM (non-catholic follower of Jesus Christ) (, March 08, 2001.


I love Mary, the mother of Jesus. I don't love the way you have changed her role as His mother.

May God give you eyes to see.

-- SSM (non-catholic follower of Jesus Christ) (, March 08, 2001.

Dear Susan,
You should love the Blessed Virgin Mary; her own Son Our Lord certainly loves her. I'm amazed you should think any human being in his right mind would dare ''change'' what God has made Full of Grace. Nothing about her is a mystery to Catholics, but it remains a mystery to you.

Divine charity would seem, if you can't say anything good about your neighbor, at least refrain from saying anything bad. Carry the analogy to the extreme; Mary is much more than your neighbor. But you would demote her to exactly that: your equal, and no more. I suppose you hope Jesus Christ, the angels and saints, and His Church on earth would approve?

You can't say anything good, but you will call Mary a ''sinner'', just like you and me. She had to be chosen from out of all womankind, to be preserved and guarded from all stain of sin; in order that the Holy Human nature of her Divine Son might be born of sinless flesh and become Man. If you do not believe this, you accuse Jesus Himself of being a part of our common humanity and its Original Sin. You call Jesus the offspring of a sinner just like yourself. That makes a believer in His Infinite Holiness cringe at your bottomless pride. Because it would cost you nothing to believe in Mary's Immaculateness. It takes NOTHING away from God's dignity and power. In fact, He is glorified in her, for the sake of His Divine Son, and He has revealed these truths Himself!

Lift up your heart to Him, and ask Him to forgive you for the disdain and indifference you've shown for His mother. Do that, Susan; come off your high horse which is carrying you away from Christ forever.

-- eugene c. chavez (, March 08, 2001.

Alex --when I need your opinion I'll ask for it. Your ignorance is incredible!

-- eugene c. chavez (, March 08, 2001.

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