unpasturized cow's milk

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Ok, I already asked this question about goat's milk, but what about cow's milk? I know tb and brucellosis are a risk, but if the cow is tested and negative, is it safe to drink the milk unpasturized? If it must be pasturized, would I do it before or after skimming the cream? Does anyone on this forum drink unpasturized cow's milk? I'm thinking about maybe getting a dexter. Probably two, milk one and let the calves milk the other. Anyone done this? Thanks!

-- Elizabeth (Lividia66@aol.com), March 11, 2001

Answers

When my friend's cow is giving, I drink it lots. Tastes wonderful. The only problem is, we got the stuff to make cheese and only had one gallon since and it was for other purposes:~{ Sure beats formaldehyde and other stuff in store bought.

-- Cindy (SE In) (atilrthehony_1@yahoo.com), March 11, 2001.

Pateurization, and for that matter, homogenization are both unnecessary. In fact, there have been studies that suggest that these processes are not healthful themselves. I don't bother with either unless I will have to store milk not frozen, for a long time.

-- Sue Diederich (willow666@rocketmail.com), March 11, 2001.

Sue's answer is correct that pasturization is not needed, with a big old "IF", you know the stock. And you thought by putting cows on the thread title that I wouldn't post here? :) The same list of disease, most that you are not able to test for until after you have become exposed to the drinking of the milk raw, are nearly the same for goats as they are for cows. I do not have enough time to repost the list, you can find it on the old goat thread. Having an informed choice is the best choice, as always, this particularly would affect infants, elderly and those with immune disorders or the ill. But to just say "Yes it is fine" is not all the information. And yes we do drink and use our milk raw. But not from goats that I did not raise and test. Spend one day over on a larger goat forum and see how many diseases folks have in their stock, how much medication and worming they do, without any heed to withdrawl time! Herbs also have medicinal qualities, and anything strong enough to supposedly kill a worm certainly is going to be in the milk!

I know I am the one playing the devils advocate all the time, but new folks need to know you can't buy a goat or cow at the auction barn and then saftely feed this milk to your family! Vicki

-- Vicki McGaugh TX (vickilonesomedoe@hotmail.com), March 11, 2001.


I have a vet check my cow once a year. I'm also kind of careful what other cows she comes in contact with. I've been drinking unpasteurized milk for several years now and no problems. One reason milk is pasteurized is unsanitary milking conditions. I'm very picky about cleanliness...in the milking parlor and in the kitchen. Makes a big difference. If you have healthy stock I don't see a reason to pasteurize. The milk tastes better raw too.

-- Amanda in MO (aseley@townsqr.com), March 12, 2001.

O.K. Amanda, you have an infant child. You are buzy with the new baby, and your husband goes out to help with feeding, doesn't notice like you would that their is some mold on the hay, just the outside flake. Before you would be able to diagnose from symptoms that your cow now has listerosis, you would have already infected your infant with this, probably lethally, you being a stong adult with good immunity would just be basically ill. This has nothing to do with cleanliness. If your cow or goat had immunity to toxoplasmosis and did not abort her calf, or she didn't have immunity from it and did abort her calf, but came into milk anyway. With only one abortion would you wait and get a necropsy result from you state vet, on the cause, or would you start drinking the milk? Toxoplasmosis is zoonic, and could kill your unborn baby while you are pregnant. From drinking unpasturised milk. Like I said before, it is up to the individual to make an informed decision, there is a whole list of disease that is excreted in the milk only, there is also a list that is from fecal contamination. And I do recall a thread where folks just strained the milk and drank it anyway, even if a doe put her foot in the bucket!!! Yeeks! Vicki

-- Vicki McGaugh TX (vickilonesomedoe@hotmail.com), March 12, 2001.


Vicki, I must admit I haven't been faced with the problem of pregnancy complications or infants for a long time now....had a hysterectomy nearly 9 yrs ago. My children are nearly 10 and 12. We are a pretty hearty bunch and don't seem to be bothered with much. I'd assume that anyone that is pregnant or has infants would take extra precautions on just about anything. I know I did. I just shared my particular experience. Making sure to point out that I am very particular when it comes to cleanliness and the care of my animals. Fact is folks drank unpasteurized milk for a long time before they came up with the process. I believe unpasteurized milk is healthier...as long as you understand the possible dangers and take some common sense precautions against them. I've worked on commercial dairies and I assure you I'd a whole lots rather drink raw milk off the farm than the mess that gets strained and pasteurized till it is 'safe' in the grocery store!

-- Amanda in Mo (aseley@townsqr.com), March 12, 2001.

Joke with regards the doe putting her foot in the bucket then the family still using it

Little old lady from way back in the hills set her uncovered milk bucket down to tend another job as she went into the house. Just as she turned back to the bucket, she saw her husband's old hound peeing into it. Chasing the dog away, the old woman shakes her fist at him saying, "Dang it, now I have to strain the milk twice!"

I do know some people who just put colloidal silver in milk the goat stepped in. Gross, yuck. I don't drink milk when I'm at their house.

-- marilyn (rainbow@ktis.net), March 12, 2001.


In his most recent edition, even the late Dr. Benjamin Spock M.D. recommends a vegetarian diet for all children and urges parents NOT to give them milk or dairy products after the age of 2. Humans are apparently the only animals that regularly drink the milk of another animal. To me this has always seemed quite unnatural and odd. This may not pertain exactly to the question at hand, but it seemed a good place to share this information. I don't even give bottled juices to my 3 year old without proof of pasturization. And, it only takes one or two bites of a bad mc'burger to kill a small child. I'm into homesteading and natural/whole foods as much as anyone, but with a child, it's just not worth the risk. I know they used to do it all the time, but the mortality rate used to always be higher also. If you're interested in more information on this subject, please read: "Spoiled Rotten, a Food Chain Gone Awry" by ___ Nichols. A book I read several years ago (I think that's the title & author, loaned to a friend, never to be seen again....)

-- Rose Marie Wild (wintersongfarm@yahoo.com), March 12, 2001.

Actually Rose, I tend to agree with you. It has always seemed a little odd to me that we drink another animal's secretions! (Ya gotta wonder who the first person to drink milk from a cow or goat was, and how they decided that that was the thing to do!) But I do drink milk and definitely feel that I should take part in producing what I'm consuming. Thanks!

-- Elizabeth (Lividia66@aol.com), March 12, 2001.

We're the only "animal" with the brains to figure out how to milk an animal and the opposable thumbs to do it! I know around our place almost every animal went out of their way to drink the goats milk if it was made accessable to them - chickens, pigs, cats, dogs even the does at times!

-- Amy (gshep@aeroinc.net), March 13, 2001.


Just some things I ponder over.....

We are the only "animal" that doesn't have sense enough to wean our children! We wean our children from our breast to a cow! Some mothers don't even use breast milk, and choose instead to give their infants cows milk formula, formulated from a cow who is having a 100 pound calf? How ironic that at most farms an infant animal that doesn't receive colostrum is sold or destroyed. Receiving no colostrum makes any mammal weaker with a poor immune system. Doctors nix the idea of feeding infants goat milk, though goats actually have kids the exact same size as ours! And which mammals are smarter? Vicki

-- Vicki McGaugh TX (vickilonesomedoe@hotmail.com), March 14, 2001.


Well I just had to add my 2 cents worth as far as humans drinking milk. When God told his children about the land he was going to give them for an inheritance He described it as 'flowing with milk and honey'. Good enough for me.

-- Amanda in MO (aseley@townsqr.com), March 14, 2001.

We have been drinking raw milk for about 3 years now and I have had two babies during that time. I was concerned with things like listeria but then there was a warning on TV about pregnant women not eating coldcuts or any type of deli meat because they could get listeria from it. I figured you can get anything from anything and as long as I was being as clean as possible with our milk it is more than they do at commercial dairies and most people don't think twice about drinking store milk.

Kathy

-- Kathy (davidwh6@juno.com), March 17, 2001.


We can worry ourselves into a frenzy and live in a plastic bubble, or we can enjoy life and our food. We have been drinking raw cows milk for 3 years and have been sick less than when we were drinking processed milk. I think the more we protect ourselves, the more vulnerable we become. I worry more about pot luck dinners and fast food joints, than I do raw food.

-- Cindy in ID (jimandcindy@micron.net), March 18, 2001.

Boy there's a lot to comment on here....I'm no expert (architecture is my thing), but I'm reading a book by Sally Fallen and Mary Enig called 'Nurishing Traditions' (I think). Enig is a Lipid specialist or something (author of Know your Fats). Anyway, there's an exhaustive section in there about fats, particularly animal fats. They explain how critical they are to your immune system--esp. for children! Did you know that human mother's milk provides a higher portion of cholesterol than almost any other food... Sat. fat and cholesterol are essential for growth in babies and children, especially the development of the brain (p.6).

I'm learning a lot that makes me angry. About how misinformation gets perpetrated because people don't demand to know the source-we beleive what we want to hear, or that half truth that "makes sense"...People use all kinds of ridiculous arguments to justify their positions. It makes me wonder if their diet is lacking in saturated fat...Okay, we drink the milk of another animal...that's weird?? You've not watched many nature shows...in 'Nature' symbiotic relationships are everywhere. I'm glad I'm not a fly having to leave my young in the dung of another animal (talk about secretions)! There are creatures that survive solely on the secretions of other animals. It's an incredably intricate matrix of relationships that suggest intelligent design...nothing is wasted...well, until we came along and thought we could do it better...God must be pretty irked! ...the bottom line is if you're gonna drink raw milk, and my new book suggests that you should if at all possible, use your brain - be clean, minimize risks, do research BEFORE you buy the cow, know the habits of those you get if from, understand how to keep your cow healthy, and what to do if you suspect a problem....don't be lazy or in denial...take action...buy a few gallons at the grocery store until you can be sure...and knowing the risks deal with the consequences head on without fear, because God knows exactly where you are and where to go from there...

-- Cari B. Lease (cariswork@mindspring.com), June 22, 2001.



I am very happy to report that we do NOT pasteurise the milk from our cow. Pastuerisation of milk kills the enzymes, denatures the proteins, and precipitates the minerals. Enzymes are absolutely necessary for correct digestion and growth. The sparcity of living enzymes in the Western diet is appalling, and has been cited as probably one of the main reasons for our major health problems. Enzymes cannot survive high temperatures. Some enzymes cannot be gotten from plant sources, and neither can they be created by our bodies. We NEED living enzymes from animal sources to gain optimum health and vitality.

One enzyme, for instance, that is killed by pasteurisation of milk, is lactase. It is lactase which makes us able to digest lactose. People who do not have a high enough level of lactase in their innards are called lactose-intolerant. So they take pasteurised milk, innoculate it with lactase, name it Lactaid, and sock a high price on it. I have a milk customer who is suposed to be lactose intolerant, but he can drink our raw milk, because the naturally occurring enzyme latase is still in there.

What other necessary things that we havent discovered yet, do you suppose, may be naturally occurring in raw milk for the benefit of those who drink this wonderful food? Or are you of the opinion that science has figured everything out already?

Actually, the threat of tb from a cow is nil. It has been proven that the strain of tb that cows can harbor is not the strain that can infect humans. The reason that humans used to get tb from milk, was because humans infected with the tb virus were coughing into the open pails they were milking into, thus inocculating the warm milk with the human strain of tb. Bovine tb cannot be contracted by humans. Of course, there have been many dollars spent by the huge milk handling companies to diseminate the misinformation fed to the public (and to politicians) to keep them in business.

As per the idea that humans are the only animals who drink the milk of another animal... OH COME ON. Do you really hold the position that humans should only eat and drink according to how animals do it? I suppose that if you eat meat, you kill it yourself, and eat it with the warm blood dripping form your chin? Arent we the only animals that dont eat meat that way? If you eat plants, I supose you always bite them off while crawling around, because they are the freshest if eaten in that way? You know the fresher the better! We are humans, for crying out loud, not animals.

-- daffodyllady (daffodyllady@yahoo.com), June 22, 2001.


http://www.realmilk.com/realmilk.html

For the scoop on unpasteurized milk.

I drink it every chance I get. If I ever FINISH BUILDING MY HOUSE (@@#*$*@&#!) I'll have my own cow and all the fresh raw milk I can use (which is an awful lot in this household).

As for safety issues, not too long ago I took a lot of flack for suggesting one might let sheep or chickens clean up fallen fruit in the orchard, because some woman said it was an e. coli risk. Never mind that with the sole exception of some strawberries from Mexico (which were contaminated by human field workers, NOT by animals) e. coli has not been a risk with fruits and vegetables, only meat from grain-fed or confined animals. Never mind that a variety of e. coli strains exist in nature and in fact are a necessary symbiote for any animal with a gut. The "dangerous" strain is fairly rare. So now what, we're supposed to enclose our orchards in a greenhouse maybe to protect them from the droppings of deer and wild birds in case they might CONTAMINATE THE FRUIT WITH E. COLI???

I'm not interested in living in a bubble, as has been mentioned.

There is no way to make life perfectly safe, not and still have something resembling an actual life. Toxoplasmosis fears led people to exhort me to get rid of my cat while I was pregnant; well I grew up with cats and I guarantee you I'd already been exposed. But if you're worried about something like that just get somebody else to change the litter for 9 months.

The big slaughter houses with their gleaming stainless steel multi-million dollar facilities are supposed to make our meat supply "safe". All I know is that when I was a kid and meat came from much smaller local (and locally owned) packing plants, I never heard of e. coli or listeria. That came along with the mega-slaughter houses and their huge, dusty, nasty, smelly, filthy feedlots, where livestock is coated with dung and filth and muck. You think they wash those hides off before they start cutting up the carcass? LOL! Why do you think the government is pushing for irradiation in packing plants? They KNOW there's crap in the food. They think its OK as long as its "sterile" crap.

Its not about cleanliness or even really safety. It's about protecting industry.

Recently there was a push by the gubmint to make cheesemaking from unpastuerized cheese illegal. This was based on a study that took cheesemaking and turned it into an anaerobic process instead of the aerobic process it actually is. Basically they took some raw milk and did EVERYTHING WRONG (the stuff wouldn't even taste like cheese when they were done with it, or look right either), thoroughly contaminated it, and pointed their fingers at raw milk as the culprit. If they'd used pasteurized milk the results would have been the same. Heck, they even innoculated the stuff with anaerobic bacteria to make sure they got results! Then they bolstered their argument by pointing to a (fairly) recent case of contaminated cheese - that was the result of mishandling, long AFTER the cheesemaking process itself, of cheeses made from pastuerized milk! It's all a crock.

As for what's "natural" for human beings to eat - we're omnivores. Basically we are set up to eat anything that doesn't actually eat us first. You want a "natural" diet? Think roots and grubs and insects and small stringy creatures of the wild that aren't fast enough to run away from us.

I'll stick with raw milk, thank you very much.

-- Sojourner (sojournr@missouri.org), June 23, 2001.


Hi - I am a city-girl who finds herself (happily) with a 3rd generation dairy farmer. This whole family has been raised for literally 100 yrs on raw milk with no adverse consequences. Some of his little nieces, only occasionally on the farm, have some diarrhea after drinking the raw milk so they are given it cooked or bought. I came here knowing they drink raw milk from the bulk tank and thus have been doing the same since I got here with no problems. We trade out cows on a regular basis - e.g. send to slaughter older ones or ones with big problems, and purchase some from a breeder (to supplement what we are raising) and none of these are specifically tested for brucellosis, etc., to my knowledge. I had done microbiology prior to becoming a nurse and used to worry a lot about contamination of all sorts. I have to say, I would drink anything my sweetie will drink but I doubt I would drink any raw milk on anyone else's farm. I can't really explain this answer except that we have all been really healthy. Helen

-- Helen, in WI (applebake@cybrzn.com), November 01, 2001.

Hey.We got a jersey 4 months ago from a lady who got her from a sale. No one could even be sure when she had calved.We had looked for 9 months and when they hit the paper they are sold in 24 hours. We bought her pig in a poke. Drove 4 hours north to birmingham AL to pick her up and she looked like death eating a ham sandwich. We could see every rib and vertibra. We took her staight to the vet in that town and he checked her blood,TB tested her,wormed her, checked her for prgnancy and gave us a lot of good advice.We gave her a few days for the test results to come back(the doc said in 35 years he'd never seen a cow with TB). He also said that according to her ear tag she was only 5 years old and had come from a dairy in TN. Well we had a fight on our hands for a few days but I got her tied to a post and milked her and eventually got her in a stall and she is so gentle. We drink the milk raw and strained. I wash her udder with hot soapy water every morning and dip her tits in betadine before and after milking. We wash everything very well. I expected the milk to spoil within a few days because it was not pasturized but have found out that the milk has a shelf life of at least 28 days.(none has ever spoiled but my grandpa had a gallon that long before her drank it.) Also I have always had bad lactose intolerance to the point of only being able to drink a cup or so of milk a day! So i was cautious about Annabells milk at first.I never had a problem and some days I drink a QT with every meal!It is wonderful.Everyone in the house loves it and I will never drink store bought again.We milk Annabell every morning at daylight, it has been at least 365 days since she calved and we still get 1.5 gallons a day just like we did 4 months ago.She had mastitis in one quarter when we first milked her and we were so ignorant we thought it was butterfat and drank it! It did not kill us. I learned to milk that quarter last and throw that out until we got her over the mastitis. We have come a long way.We have always raised and eaten our own chickens,rabbits and hoggs but we had never owned any kind of cow.She has never tried to put her foot in the bucket but if she did the hoggs would get it. I watched her every day when I milked her and figured out her heat cycles and we had her AI'd. The vet said I timed it just right.We are waiting to see.We do skim the butter fat for out butter,and after we learned how to make it we enjoy it.(the first few tries went to the hoggs).So far we all lived happily ever after. I hope this helps some of the green horns like me.

-- Russ Cherry (whiteoakbaskets@aol.com), February 18, 2002.

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