Spare the rod or spoil the childgreenspun.com : LUSENET : Unk's Wild Wild West : One Thread
Kids in Foster Care After Abuse
by KRISTEN WYATT Associated Press Writer
ATLANTA (AP) -- A judge put 41 children in foster care for a year Wednesday after their parents refused to stop whipping them in church-sponsored beating sessions and forcing teen-age girls to marry.
''I hate to see these children jeopardized by what I consider to be a cult,'' Juvenile Court Judge Sanford Jones said.
The decision followed a two-day hearing into practices at the House of Prayer, led by the Rev. Arthur Allen Jr.
The judge was told about a 7-year-old left with welts and bruises and a 10-year-old with open wounds on his belly and side. A former church member also testified that she was forced to marry at 15 and was beaten when she refused to have sex with her 23-year-old husband.
Allen has said the beatings are simple discipline.
''The Bible says that if you spare the rod you're going to spoil the child,'' he said last week. ''I have the Scriptures that give me the right to do it.''
The all-black, 130-member nondenominational church was put in the spotlight after children complained they were hit with sticks, switches and belts in front of the congregation, sometimes by their parents, sometimes by other church members.
Forty-one of the children in the congregation, ranging in age from a few months old to 17, were taken from the parents over the past two weeks. And police have charged Allen, 68, and six church members with inflicting or allowing excessive beatings of the two boys.
On Wednesday, the judge said the youngsters' parents -- four couples and a single father -- could have their children back if they agreed to four conditions: No marriages for anyone under 16; no missing school after late-night church events; no physical discipline by anyone else; and no church beatings.
''I'm not saying you can't whip your children, I'm just saying you can't leave marks like this on them,'' Jones said.
The parents refused.
''I'm not going to let anyone tell me how long my children can stay in church,'' Sharon Duncan said. ''It's my prerogative.''
Social workers said the boys were beaten at church for misbehaving in school. The 7-year-old said he was held in the air by three adults while his uncle whipped him with a switch as Allen stood by, giving instructions.
''If the white society doesn't want to whip their children, that's their business,'' said Allen, who was sentenced to 30 days in jail in 1993 for ordering a woman to beat her daughter.
The preacher is also accused of arranging marriages for girls after they turn 14, telling them they have to get married so they do not become burdens to their families. Georgia prohibits marriage before 16, but the church conducts the ceremonies in Alabama.
The parents represented themselves at the hearing, saying the state had no right to interfere with their religious practices. They said no child is permanently injured and the bruises go away.
After seeing pictures of a young boy's torso covered in bloody welts, the judge asked David Duncan, one of the parents facing charges, if he thought the beatings constitute abuse.
''The only way I can answer that, sir, is that we're going to raise our children according to the Bible,'' he said.
''Well, the good lord isn't deciding whether you get your kids back here. I am,'' the judge replied. ''The Bible also says God told Abraham to kill his son, but that's not acceptable in our society, do you understand me?''
-- (email@example.com), March 28, 2001
I saw that on the news tonight. They also had a young woman who was beaten by her husband on orders of the rev. This is a sad story, but says more about this particular church than religion in general.
-- Tarzan the Ape Man (firstname.lastname@example.org), March 28, 2001.
it never ceases to amaze me.BUT i,m convinced it ALL has a deeper- purpose.this-story will strengthen some[who hate christianity] and open the eyes of those who seek the=TRUTH. SATAN IS A MASTER AT[PERVERTING-SCRITURE] without the[balance]that only the HOLY=SPIRIT CAN GIVE TO BIBLE-VERSES CHRISTIANITY-CAN BECOME=CULTISH. the reason xianity has such a confusing affect ,on so many-is the fact that ALL scripture must be =SPIRITUALLY-DISCERNED. the BIBLE is=spiritual--for many it is a book of rules-and control freaks love that.KNOWLEDGE=puffs many up. but knowledge without=wisdom is devils play. yes scriture states=''spare the rod-spoil the child''but it also say,s''raise a child in the nurture & love of GOD'' WHAT BETTER WAY TO CAUSE A CHILD TO[secretly hate GOD] than to correct & shame them in public.-PAUL said=if walk in LOVE we fullfill the law.isn,t it sad how we only hear the bad things in SECULAR-NEWS, about the folly of [phariseeical-christianity]and never hear about ,the TRUE workings of GOD in the hearts of those that=SEEK the=full council of god.THERE IS A PLACE FOR=TOUGH-LOVE. but 1 must be sure it,s done with the WISDOM of maturity. *there is ''the kindness & the severity of GOD-but we must not=PLAY GOD!!-----LOVE covers a mutitude of sins---------selah.[ponder] no church or pastor has the right to=FORCE righteousness on anyone. we can warn=pray & get out of GODS-WAY!! FOR LIKE DEAR jesus SAID=''HE WHO HAS NEVER SINNED-LET HIM CAST THE FIRST STONE''-this is why the=religious-right is dangerous. no-one can live the christian life-unless CHRIST is doing it=thru them.--if more church goer,s would=focus on the MASTERS WORDS and ask for understanding-then the POWER OF GOD would be manifest in the lives of-truly=born again-spirit filled soul,s. the ONLY type of people JESUS had conflict with-we,re the self- righteous=religious**JESUS never put sinners[mark-missers] down HE alway,s raised them UP!------WRONG=focus CAUSES MANY TO STUMBLE.
-- al-d (email@example.com), March 29, 2001.
I did see Hannity/Colmes and they had a former church member who had been in the church over 17 years. She stated that the paster also liked to feel up little girls. She also said she was beaten in front of the church by 3 other members with a switch (hmm, sound familiar capn?) southern style and with a belt.
I pretty much believed what she had to say until she finally admited to being a relative to the pastor. I think she, in that case, simply had an axe of family to grind.
I did see the clip where those children were removed from the home forcefully and because of ALLEGATIONS only. No proof. Those children were scared, crying, and fighting. It reminded me of the Elian adventure.
The part that bothers me is that alot of the children removed were done so by allegation only. CPS (child protective services), state, governement, has to much say so imho.
BEFORE anyone gets me, I do not Advocate abuse, but a good ass whipping never hurt me. I personally would not let anyone in church or public setting touch my child. But he is MY child, as long as I am not abusing him, well, I do believe in corporal punishment.
Hell, I got switched, belts, whatever was handy when I grew up.
And alive to tell about it.
Okay, now you all can get me......jumps off soap box and ducks. :-)
-- sumer (firstname.lastname@example.org), March 29, 2001.
Local news had pictures of the children with huge welts and cuts on their backs. I was whipped many a time as a child and I never had any scars from it. As well, the leader of the church admits that the members hold the children down while punishment is administered. Does that sound like a good spanking to you?
In addition to the woman Hannity and Colmes mentioned, the local news also had a woman who was married against her will at the age of fourteen and who was beaten when she refused to have sex with her husband. Does this sound like a child that needed to be spanked?
Yes, the children were removed on allegation. Yes, there is some proof to back up these allegations but not in the case of all 41 children. This is why the judge offered to let the children go home as long as their parents promised not to beat them bloody or marry them off before the legal age in Georgia (Alabama law is fourteen, Georgia is sixteen). The parents couldn't even promise that.
-- Tarzan the Ape Man (email@example.com), March 29, 2001.
other form's of child-abuse>alcoholic-drug addict parent's-money comes 1st parent's-no GOD parent's-safe sex parent's-we,re better than other's parent's-do your OWN thing parent's. the list is long. we are living in a =no fear of GOD or man society-no respect for=authority. how many kids=hero's are rapper's-or-violent GOD hating figure's----why can/do kids kill so easily/heartlessly now-a-aday's?? ~~again come the words to mind=SOWING TO THE WIND'' and REAPING a whirlwind ````` hey,we can do it[OUR] way-or GODS WAY!! THE =BOTTOM LINE IS-WHAT CROP DO WE WANT???
-- al-d (firstname.lastname@example.org), March 29, 2001.