from just left of the center on compassion and philosophy

greenspun.com : LUSENET : Countryside : One Thread

It appears that I differ from many of you in my overall outlook on life. I am a public school teacher BY CHOICE and proud of it. If all of the parents of the nation were as diligent and able as some of you I would not be needed, but many children only find the knowledge they need to succeed at life in a public school classroom. I am a single mom and have worked most of my children's childhood. I took great care to choose daycare and preschool situations that would enable me to not worry about my children's safety and teaching while I was working to provide a food, clothing and a roof over their heads. (I would rather have stayed married, but that's a long story not of importantance here.) I have read many diatribes here and most I have been able to say, WOW, I wouldn't have guessed that person thought that way on that subject. I could not, however, let pass the post entitled "Just a new look on things". It hurt to the bottom of my heart to see such hard hearts and closed minds to the reality of the world around us. The world has changed and what it means to be a citizen of one country no longer is limited to that countries borders. We must see ourselves as citizens of the whole world for our daily life does depend on what happens in the whole world. Here is how I see the world.

Because I have most of what I want and all of what I need... I have a responsibilty to help those who cannot help themselves (for any reason) and gladly pay taxes and support charities.

I understand that to have compassion means to have mercy and since I need mercy I give it as often as I can.

I understand that guns are for killing, and I don't need one.

I know how easy it was for me to come close to homeless with my little ones and give alms freely on the street.

I am tolerant of the ideas, religions, languages, and views of others and hope that they show me the same tolerance.

I admire those who have left the security of home, family,country and culture to follow the dream of a better life for themselves and their children. Their struggle to learn a new language and fit into a new culture can only be imagined as I struggle to educate myself to speak a new language to communicate with them.

-- betty modin (betty_m9@yahoo.com), March 31, 2001

Answers

How about way left of center!

-- Lynn Goltz (lynngoltz@aol.com), March 31, 2001.

Oh Betty, thank you!!! I have been praying about the thread you mentioned all morning because so many believers had signed it that I was just heartsick. You have said most of what I would have said in a way that is very compassionate and Christ like. Thank you again and God Bless you. It is my firm belief that Christ, were he to return other than in the clouds, would be crucified again, except this time by CHRISTIANS.

-- diane (gardiacaprines@yahoo.com), March 31, 2001.

I agreed with some of it, some of it I didn't. I too think that compassion is lacking these days but I also think that a lot of people want to seem "tougher" than they really are.

-- nobrabbit (conlane@prodigy.net), March 31, 2001.

There is a difference between having compassion and being a doormat. I'm one of those that signed the thread you mentioned. Basically that thread, in an exagerated way, was describing the American dream. Work hard and you will get rewarded...or at least it used to be that way. Many of us have plenty of compassion but get very tired of working hard and not accepting government handouts and then we see folks, that just aren't willing to work, living off of our tax dollars. Yes I realise there are some people that honestly need a hand through tough times but that is in the minority that is receiving such funds. I'll never forget the time I was in the emergency room(probably with one of my kids...I forget) and we were in a room where beds were divided by curtains. In the next bed over was an obvious welfare recipient. They for some reason seemed to have brought all their friends and neighbors with them. The hot topic of discussion was how to get more money from the government. They were discussing how you could hide the fact that your unmarried boyfriend that had produced most of your kids could earn good money and live in the same house but you didn't have to claim that income. They were also discussing different programs and how to get around the rules. I couldn't help overhearing since they were rather loud. The more I listened the more I realised this was a con game. This wasn't the only time I have heard of such things either. No I'm not rich. I live on far less than what our government considers the poverty level. Yes I could probably qualify for welfare but I don't want it. I really believe welfare harms people. Our forefathers pulled themselves up by their bootstraps(and they probably hand made those very same straps) and look what they accomplished in a relatively short time! Hard work and overcoming adversity builds character and grit. We sure could use some of that now. I have no problem with people immigrating to this country as long as they don't expect me to support them. As far as the language thing goes....if I moved to their country I would have to learn their language...I'd expect that. This is an english speaking country and that is just the way it is. The fact is that it will benefit those people to learn english anyway. I'm a whole bunch to the right of center...all that means is I have a dose of common sense to go along with my compassion.

-- Amanda in Mo (aseley@townsqr.com), March 31, 2001.

Amanda, thank you for saying exactly what I feel! I have compassion, huge amounts of compassion in fact. But when you get out in the world and see things like you are talking about, it does tend to make you angry. If someone is truly down and out and trying to help themself, I'm more than willing to help if I'm able. But I do resent being "expected to" by those with less just because I've been willing to work for mine and they won't. As far as foreigners, if I went to their country to live, I'm sure they would expect me to learn their language. No? I think a lot of people, especially women, who have not worked and been out in the world do not realize how much of this undeserved welfare is going on. Taking away from the wealthier and giving to the poor is called communism. Again, I repeat, I am willing and do help those in true need but not those taking advantage just because they think it is their right.

-- bwilliams (bjconthefarm@yahoo.com), March 31, 2001.


I too signed the thread...Most folks have never met homeless people, or drug addicts, or inmates, or welfare-career people, or law-suit- happy folks,or lost their home because they could not afford to pay outrageous taxes..dollars going to illegal aliens who refuse to learn the language. etc. etc. etc. I have! I admire the folks whom I met that came from Viet Nam, learned to speak English in a single year, started their own dry cleaning business and are fine citizens of their new country. I am upset with the folks I have worked with for years and years who refuse to learn English, enjoy being on welfare, etc. etc. Because I do not like the "new system" of "global enlightenment" does not make me a bad Christian, thank you. There is a big difference between loving everyone and trying to make the world a better place to live in and accepting the new world order. As far as public schools, it is a joy to have dedicated teachers who can actually teach...unfortunately, most of the ones I have met are not of the highest caliber..it's a shame. I am not ashamed of my guns, or my attitudes....I'll be the first one to love my neighbor, but the last to support government-sponsored hand outs to those who are too lazy to work.

-- Lesley (martchas@bellsouth.net), March 31, 2001.

Amen, Lesley!!! God does not expect us to be doormats! Our guns are for protection, not to aggressively go after someone to kill them but to protect ourselves should the need arise. I hope it never does but the way things are going, wouldn't surprise me if that doesn't happen. It is a known fact that where citizens have guns, there is less crime. I think school teachers should have guns! I bet we wouldn't have had all those killings in school then. Oh yes, my daughter is a public school teacher too. One world government we do not need. I think the time for HIS return is sooner than most people realize.

-- bwilliams (bjconthefarm@yahoo.com), March 31, 2001.

I agree with Amanda and Lesly.

-- michelle (tsjheath@ainop.com), March 31, 2001.

bwilliams, would you please substantiate this statement?

" It is a known fact that where citizens have guns, there is less crime. "

-- Earthmama (earthmama48@yahoo.com), March 31, 2001.


Bravo Lesley! Earthmama look at australia...not what the media says but actually talk to someone living there. Also statistics show that states that have concealed handgun laws have had a rather dramatic decrease in violent crime. I lived in Texas when we passed that law and the crime did indeed go down..and rather quickly I might add. It seems that criminals prefer their victims without the ability to fight back...how odd. Thank goodness our forefathers had guns or we'd all be having tea time and crumpets. This was important enough for those wise men to put the right to bear arms in our most precious document.

-- Amanda in Mo (aseley@townsqr.com), March 31, 2001.


Taking into consideration some of the school teachers I have had the " pleasure" of meeting, I can sincerely say I would not want them carrying guns on them. Teachers are like everyone else. There are good ones and bad ones. I would not want a "bad one toting a gun on a day they had had enough.

-- Eve Lyn (evelynv@ipa.net), March 31, 2001.

TAKES ALL KIND TO MAKE THE WORLD GO ROUND . I STILL VOTE FOR STAN & JOHN ROCKER.

-- DON (dessertmaker2000@hotmail.com), March 31, 2001.

Amanda says -It seems that criminals prefer their victims without the ability to fight back...how odd. Thank goodness our forefathers had guns or we'd all be having tea time and crumpets. This was important enough for those wise men to put the right to bear arms in our most precious document.

Interesting that the "English" that were here at the beginning of this country were either criminals, never do wells, or those supervising them. The majority of "Christians" that were here were Quakers, Anabaptists and other non-violent people who didn't for the most part speak English. The didn't kill Indians or others, nor did they write the constitution or history books. Why is this an English speaking country?? Can't help wonder.

-- diane (gardiacaprines@yahoo.com), March 31, 2001.


Most of the criminals you refer to were considered such because they spoke out against the crown. Many of them were criminals because they wouldn't support the church of england. England by sending off her so called 'criminals' actually sent away their best and brightest. These folks weren't afraid to fight for their beliefs or what they believed was their God given rights. Even thought the quakers and anabaptists were non-violent they were rebelious too....otherwise why would they have left europe. A number of them took up arms to fight in the revolution. The groups you are referring to were just the beginning of europeons coming to this country. The revolutionary war was fought over 100 yrs later. Another interesting note....the guns that were used in the revolutionary war were brought over by settlers for the most part. Had these people not believed in the right to defend themselves then we would have never had enough guns to win our country's freedom.

-- Amanda in Mo (aseley@townsqr.com), March 31, 2001.

Original descendent of ORIGINAL colonists says...BUNK. I've read the diaries of an excommunicated Reverend. They came over here willing to die to NOT participate in a state run church which was beheading and incarcerating Christians and dictating the "proper" scripture to it's citizenry. Gee, sounds familiar. By the same heritage my family also used to be the executioners for the King, so I know that side as well. England was where America is today. Nearly unchallenged world power, fat, greedy, and completely unappreciative of her own citizenry, and anybody else for that matter. You really should study history. People aren't too happy to die for what they believe in without being pushed to the limit. They are more than willing to compromise until it is unbearable to do so anymore.

I didn't sign it because there was alot that I didn't agree with. Mostly the tone. There is even more here that I don't agree with. The government has no business being in the position of stealing money from some to give to others. They are to protect the borders, prosecute evil doers and leave us the heck alone.

To address the post...1) if you have a responsibility to help those in need is it right to force others to do the same when they also may have needs that are going unmet, yet they are working?

2)I couldn't agree more with showing mercy, but there are qualifications borne of the RESPONSIBILITY of reality. If someone is sincerely sorry for their mistakes then forgiveness and mercy are in order, if they have no qualms about doing it again, then no mercy should be shown, because they are reprobate.

3) Guns are for protection. Yes they can be used to kill offensively, just like a baseball bat, just like a knife, just like fire. Heart problem, not something that can be legislated.

4)Yep, so do I. IF it is impressed on my heart to do so. Usually it is.But the guy wearing the "NEED MONEY FOR BEER" sign is out of luck.

5) No problem with anyone coming here that wants to work and make a life for themselves. I have a problem with people coming here and getting on food stamps, wic, and welfare, before they even go and look for a job. It is supposed to be America, not AMERIKA.

-- Doreen (animalwaitress@excite.com), March 31, 2001.



I love it, you guys are so predictable. Someday I am sure that we will all know the TRUTH, whatever that is. As far as Original settlers go, they were many and varied and yes, there were some antibaptists that took up arms. Actually, most of the antibaptists came here to avoid death and to be able to lead a peaceful life. I guess a lot of them would be called the original draft dodgers because they came here to avoid having to take up arms for their king. It really does matter "whose" history books you read, I tried to read them all, not just the ones in the public schools of long ago. I tossed that perspective into the pot to make the point- It really depends on who wrote the books. History is on going, and we all see through a glass darkly. If you are a decendent of an "orginal settler" it doesn't mean that those that come after you are any less than you. There is a tone of entitlement here that is far harder for me to tolerate that any welfare mentality I have come across. God Bless.

-- diane (gardiacaprines@yahoo.com), March 31, 2001.

Betty you certainly aren't alone in your feelings. I also don't fit into their neat little box, never will. Vicki

-- Vicki McGaugh TX (vickilonesomedoe@hotmail.com), March 31, 2001.

I did NOT mean by any stretch that being here before someone else had any more importance. Not at all! What I meant to get across was that you have to read original diaries from folks who were active and did so much to create this place. Why they felt the way they did and the situations they were faced with are much more thourough than a textbook. THAT is why I said that you should really study history. You can't take some text book writer's word for it, if it's truly important you need to check out the originators. So we are in agreement that it matters where you get your history. I am not entitled to anything more than the next person,life, liberty and the PURSUIT of happiness, and I haven't felt that way. I'm really sorry if it came across like that. I have nothing to do with how I came to be of the family that I'm in. It only afforded me an opportunity to look through some historical documents that I otherwise wouldn't have stumbled across. I am thankful for that, but it sure doesn't mean I'm any better than a jamaican immigrant.

As for boxes, I find them rather limiting. Not a fan of them for others or myself.

Diane, where in the Bible do you find your proof for the socialism you espouse? I know where you get the pascifism from,though we disagree. I certainly wouldn't try to force you to take up arms and I would hope you wouldn't force me to give mine up.

It seems that the crux of the problem is that on one hand, people think the government should help people, and on the other people think that people should be allowed to help themselves. That's the way that I am seeing this particular snafu. Am I wrong?

-- Doreen (animalwaitress@excite.com), March 31, 2001.


For all you folks whinning. That people should speak the language of the country they're currently residing in. Should learn a native american tongue. Since your only temporarily livig in our country.

And according to gov. statistics it's single WHITE people who are the majority on public assistance.

Most immigrants work harder, longer, and support their communities.

And last but not least what wuold god say about this you've perveted my teachings to justify your own ignorance also do well in education.

-- (redbob@aol.com), March 31, 2001.


Last time I checked, Mexican was spoken in the Americas first. The rest of us are just sons and daughters of English immigrants who brought their language into another country and still continue to use it to this day, despite the fact that it is not the native language of the land. And these are usually the same people who travel to other countries on vacation, then get pissed when the French waiter or German train engineer doesn't speak English.

-- Soni (thomkilroy@hotmail.com), March 31, 2001.

Diane, where in the Bible do you find your proof for the socialism you espouse----Doreen, please enlighten me. What socialism am I espousing??? Christ said "feed the hungry". Did he say feed the hungry if they deserve it according to who?? He said if they ask you to carry their pack one mile, carry it two. He said to love our enemies and to forgive 70 times 7. If they ask for your tunic, give them your coat also. (I am paraphrasing here because I don't have the text in front of me at this particular moment). What about our Statue of Liberty?? Do we tear it down now that we are full. I must be really dense here as usual, I just don't get these attitudes. And yes, you really made me think you thought because your people came over on the Mayflower you had more rights than someone coming over today. Interesting, I have been called a lot of things in my day but I must admit Socialist is a new one. God Bless and I wish everyone a special day of rest tomorrow.

-- diane (gardiacaprines@yahoo.com), March 31, 2001.

Thank you Betty!! You have a warm heart and I see it just like you do. Compassion is still a wonderful virtue.....Kirk

-- Kirk Davis (kirkay@yahoo.com), March 31, 2001.

Diane, the socialism comes in when you apply it to a governmental mandate to "help your neighbor". I do believe in helping people, I don't believe in MAKING people help people. I don't know if your entire response was to me..re: Statue of Liberty et al?? If so, I never have said a thing against immigration, almost all of us are immigrants. Feed the hungry, YES, buy the alcoholic a beer...NO. Doesn't that fit in with Christ?

This is all on loan as I see it...everyone deserves to be treated with common respect and courtesy regardless of their racial, religious,fiduciary or sexual, or ethnic make up. That to me is just COMMON decency. If a person is derelict they will show it and reap their own, but they should not be aided in escaping the consequences of their actions. That doesn't mean that you deride them,nor does it mean that you don't help people when they have a problem... you just don't help someone hang themselves. That can be extrapolated to the entire welfare system. What is so heartless and discompassionate about that?

Also regarding the language concerns,in order for a society to be able to function efficiently you have have accepted norms and agree to operate under them. Language is one of those things. There are rules of the road that make it possible to get down the street in a fair fashion and using the same language makes it all go a lot more smoothly. There isn't anything wrong with not knowing it but refusing to learn it and insisting on being catered to is another story entirely. Reflex back to socialism...I will not learn the prevailing language and insist on having things printed up for me in Swahili...at taxpayer's expense of course. That's not right. Is it?

Again I ask, isn't this about one side of the argument thinking it is government that should help people and the other side thinking that people should help themselves? And I'm asking nicely, just in case you might be taking it wrong. Also, I am asking anybody.

PS. Soni, I believe Athabascan was the first language spoken on this continent. Maybe someone else knows for certain.

-- Doreen (animalwaitress@excite.com), March 31, 2001.


I broke my own rule..I responded to a topic that had nothing to do with "how to".....I dislike revisionist history...I have zero tolerance for left-wing stances on just about anything....I believe that if folks are so fired up over "injustice" to the Native Americans, the disenfranchised whomevers from 200 years ago, perhaps they ought to give everything they have to that groups descendants and then maybe they can feel more righteous than the rest of us. If you give a man a fish, he eats for one day..if you teach him how to fish, he will feed himself. Off I go back to the "how to" topics where I am not tempted to shove my point of view down other people's throats as if it were gospel. God bless.

-- Lesley (martchas@bellsouth.net), March 31, 2001.

I read this post earlier today (before anyone had responded) and knew I'd have to come back to it when I had time. I see I am not the only one who found it objectionable. The thing that I see over and over is the implication that those who don't "gladly pay taxes" are selfish and heartless. For many of us, nothing could be farther from the truth. I'm all for helping out a neighbor and accepting help in return. That's what community is all about. I volunteer, give to local charities, and have helped out neighbors and relatives with everything from cash to emergency babysitting.

The welfare system in our country is not about *helping*. If that were the case, why create a huge bureacracy that eats up much of the funds that it receives? Why not keep things local where oversight and accountability would be possible? Why not create a system where people are encouraged (or better yet, required) to take responsibility for themselves? I'll answer my own questions. Because we have a system that needs a permanent dependent-class to justify its own existance.

The language part seems to be a tangent but I'd like to add a comment there too. I agree with whoever said that we need certain commonalities in order to function as a society. Like it or not, English is currently considered the native language of this country. Expecting people to understand the norms, customs, laws, and yes, language of this country is not anti-immigration. It's just plain common sense. Obviously, not all agree with me and some communities seem to be doing away with English altogether. I'm part of a regional homeschool group and had a recent conversation with someone who moved into the area from Texas. When asked what brought her into homeschooling, she told me that when she tried to enroll her child in Kindergarten, she was told she couldn't because the child spoke English. Personally, I think it's a sad commentary on our country when a child is rejected for speaking the native language.

Hoosiermom

-- Hoosiermom (hdnpines@kuntrynet.com), April 01, 2001.


Thank you Betty----so well put. Reminds me of a saying from the Book of The Silence. "Compassion is not a part of the law, It IS the law."

Diane: I didn't follow the thread referred to but I know what you mean about the predictability. Its not too hard to see the "conservative" ethic as its often applied as just another word for state sanctioned selfishness, just as they're fond of calling "liberals" socialists. That puts a sufficiently "evil" spin on things to make it comfortable to discount anything that comes from the "left".

On the other hand I relate to the "Give a man a fish-----" thing too. Maybe its not so much that we endeavor to help those in need as we do it wisely.

-- john (natlivent@pcpros.net), April 01, 2001.


Thanks for pointing out the "wise help" thing john. I totally agree. Ususally though we do have to feed them while we teach them how to fish. I am the first one to agree that the welfare system is lacking and promotes itself instead of independence and I have worked in my state to change that. We have a workfare program here with good health benefits for the children of the working poor. It looks like what started out as betty's compassion and distain for the "Archie Bunker" thread has gone beyond to core differences often found in our group here. Doreen, no-the statue of liberty question was not directed personally at you, it was directed at the tone of the criticized thread. Lesley, revisionist history??? Nice scapegoat for any version not our own. All we can each do is look at our own hearts and attempt to open them to each other. I often come across as attacking and I regret that. I still hold a strong belief that if Christ were to be here he would be very much rejected again. I am with Lesley though on trying to stay out of the threads that are not how to ones. I just get concerned at times that people see more than one type of Christian. I clearly don't have all the answers, I just keep trying to keep my heart open and loving and wish only the best for each person on this forum. We have two inches of new snow this morning and I am trying to tell myself that it is beautiful. Think it will work??? God's blessings to all today.

-- diane (gardiacaprines@yahoo.com), April 01, 2001.

I would like to say that I have a sister who through unfortunate circumstances became a divorced mother of two who had little choice but to turn to "welfare" for awhile . She worked very hard on very little to put herself through college so she wouldn't have to depend on welfare and is now a school teacher. Some of us unfortunately have very little in the way of family to help or willing to help and have to turn to other options. My sister didn't want to be trying to raise her two children on minimum wage. I don't think there is a person alive who through the right circumstances could end up in a position of needing help. Yes, there are abusers of the system, but I think most really want to earn their own way.

-- Eve Lyn (evelynv@ipa.net), April 01, 2001.

Teach a man to fish....ya, I remember that one. As I look out on the Columbia River I recall we didn't have to teach these native americans how to fish. They knew how to feed themselves quite well, I believe. Then we took away the fishing grounds, then the fish. Hmmm, well maybe that old saying doesn't apply here.

-- jz (oz49us"@yahoo.com), April 01, 2001.

Red bob you took my answer. Thats ok you probably said it better any way.I also didnt sign the other one, thought it bordered on racism but it didnt cross the line so just moved on.My husbands ex wife is a certified book keeper but welfare sent her back to school to learn to be a drug counsler [ she could have told them which drugs were best] then when after 2 years when she decided she realy didnt want to do that either they sent her back for 2 more years to study taking water samples.And by the way she is white! My son goes to public school and one of his best friends is a mexican boy named Daniel, and he has a Israeli friend, and a black friend in fact his class room is a rainbow of different nationalitys and his teacher is a great teacher to.as the saying goes, you say potato i say patato.and anouther of my fave sayings, never judge some one tell you have walked a mile in there shoes.

-- kathy h (ckhart55@earthlink.net), April 01, 2001.

I'm glad you said something, Betty. That whole "bad american" thing really wore on me. What also gets me is that so many professed Christians on this forum are so rude, really mean. I'm all for agreeing to disagree after a spirited debate, but for the most part I feel like this is a different forum than it was a year ago.

-- Betsy in NY (sassyweitzel@yahoo.com), April 02, 2001.

Betty -

You raise very valid points.... And, for the most part - if this were the 'best of all worlds' I would agree completely. I can only put this in my own perspective, so I am not writing in defense or contempt of anyone.

First, let me say that I, too, am divorced, and was for a long time a single parent. I also send my daughter to public school. I am now remarried, but my parents are raising my daughter so she can CONTINUE to go to that public school, in an effort to go to the University of her choice. I only get to see her a couple weeks in the summer, and when we or my parents can afford. It is more sacrifice than anyone knows. So - I do know where you are coming from.

I have been homeless. I have had to pay for my own education. I use a gun for food... mainly right now because I don't want to deal with all the chemicals in store-bought food, but also as insurance against the day when we might not have any grocery stores (which I think would be WONDERFUL!!!)

Taxes???? I give to charities and individuals based on what I see as a need. I don't need some governmental body telling me who I should donate to. I am compassionate. I just think the government uses my money foolishly - and for purposes I do not support. I do not support all these 'little wars' we are involved in. I don't support the idea of institutionalized welfare - at least not the way it is run in this country.

I see myself as a citizen of the entire world, as one part of a whole. I would give anyone the shirt off my back - and continue to give until they proved to me that they didn't deserve it. My heart bleeds for all victims, but it also burns for all who victimize - be it people, plants, animals, whatever. But... I am NOT the PARENT of the whole world. Nor am I their doctor, lawyer, judge, nanny, etc. Nor will I ever willingly be.

-- Sue Diederich (willow666@rocketmail.com), April 02, 2001.


Amanda, could you please tell us where you got the information which led you to state, "Yes I realise there are some people that honestly need a hand through tough times but that is in the minority that is receiving such funds.". Mind you, I am not disputing your facts, because I don't know one way or the other. I can only HOPE you are wrong! But if you're right, I hope we can change the system to make it better, rather than trying to dismantle it.

As far as "As far as the language thing goes....if I moved to their country I would have to learn their language." This is not completelty correct. I've travelled extensively through Latin America, and there are many, many enclaves of expatriate Americans living there who stick to themselves as much as possible, and have never bothered to learn Spanish. In fact, I just returned from Costa Rica, where I stayed with some friends who have lived there for three months per year for ten years, and the husband has never even tried to learn Spanish. The wife is learning it, however.

On the other hand, I do think people will do a lot better here if they learn English. This may change in some states in the not so distant future, though. In California, where I was visiting last week, I read that "white, non hispanics" are now only 48% of the state's population. The Latino population has grown enough to not only make up for the net emigration of white non hispanics, but also has been the main cause for Calif's population doubling in recent years.

Sorry I can't respond to some of you others; lots of good points were made, even by the righties. Gotta go to work, so to speak.

JOJ

-- jumpoff joe (jumpoff@ecoweb.net), April 02, 2001.


Is wefare for the rich O.K..Alot of buisnesses get money to train new workers.I think the gov't pays half the salary for 3 months,while the person trains.Some large corporation, usually fast food,will keep the new hired person until the funding is over.They'll make up a lame excuse of why they have to let that person go.Sometimes they''ll even try to convince the person their performace isn't good and that's why they are being fired.When the real reason is they want to hire a new person so the gov't will pay half their salary.Same with gov't grants for agriculture.Things like free seed for pasture is always given to the larger farms who have political influence and really have enough money to buy their own.While the smaller farms who need the seed and can't afford to buy it always get rejected.3/4 of all gov't assistence goes to big corporations,while the finger gets pointed at the needy and the greedy who cheat,for the 1/4 that's going to them.I think it'll be a good time to learn spanish.Language has changed many times in America ,and since one of the most mistreated minorities,will soon be the majority,I think the Americans who learn to speak spanish will get treated better when they become the majority and start treating us the way we've treated them for so long.

-- Steve (a12goat@cs.com), April 03, 2001.

On this thread, and several others, various people are concerned that Christians are being mean-spirited, calling names and discussions are getting out of hand. Some use the term "professed Christians" (like maybe they really want to say that person might not really be one). I would just like to say that when you see another person do something wrong, correct them if you must; but remember that we are to keep our eyes on Christ. People will always be people and cannot be perfect. May God bless us all. Cynthia

-- Cynthia Speer (farmsteader@gvtel.com), April 04, 2001.

Moderation questions? read the FAQ