Okay, my boyfriend and I are planting our first garden this year. We're going to do lettuce, strawberries, beans, onions, peppers and tomatoes in our greenhouse, a berry patch (raspberries and boysenberries) out back and a squash/melon patch on the hill. What tolerates some shade? We get full sun until about three or so but we do have some shady areas, especially in the greenhouse. Also, what are raised beds and how do you raise them? How can we get manure if we don't have any animals? So many questions! We're in lower upstate New York, if that makes any sense...Hudson Valley.

-- Anonymous, April 04, 2001

Answers

Your first garden Betsy, how exciting. The best thing I ever learned about gardening is utilizing raised beds. A great book about that subject is 'Square foot gardening' by Mel Bartholomew. It saves sooo much work. Your not wasting time and material building up the soil in the pathways. Fewer weeds, and those that do show up are much easier to pull since the soil hasn't been compacted. Plants are planted close enough together to shade out most weeds. We use 1 x 4 cedar held in place by 1/2 inch emt electrical conduit which we cut into 18 inch lengths and pound into the ground and clamp it to the cedar. The conduit protrudes about 2 inches above the cedar so we can attach hoops made of shedule 40 pvc water pipe. This provides a support for either plastic row covers or shade cloth as the need arises. Our beds are 4 feet by 12 feet. We have a Mantis tiller which we use to break up the ground the first year. After that it is used occasionally to mix in compost, manure or amendments. The ground almost never needs tilling after that first year because the soil doesn't compact since it isn't walked upon. As far as manure, you'd be surprised at how farmers or most people with a few animals are grateful to have you haul off some manure. We live out in a rather arid area and occasionally go up the mountain on a cow chip expedition. Some people might think kind of strange, in fact some of the cows look at us kinda funny.hhmmm . Oh well it gets us in the great outdoors and the garden loves it. I envy you your greenhouse. we are presently without one. Maybe next year. Good luck jz

-- Anonymous, April 04, 2001

Betsy, most everything tolerates some shade, in fact late afternoon shade can be benificial in the heat of the summer. I agree with jz on the best book. We have used it in various amounts for years and been happy.

-- Anonymous, April 04, 2001

VEGETABLES--SHADE
The following is a list of vegetables of partial shade-tolerant vegetables. While productions may be greater in the sun, these plants will produce an edible crop when grown in a shady location. However, remember that nothing will grow in complete shade. Plants will need some morning, evening or filtered sun; a total of two to six hours of direct sun is the minimum.

Arugala, Rhubarb, Beans, Rutabagas, Beets, Salad Burnet, Broccoli, Salsify, Brussels sprouts, Sorrel, cabbage, Spinach, Cauliflower, Summer Squash, Celery, Turnips, Cress, Endive, Garlic, Angelica, Kale, Borage, Kohlrabi, Caraway, Leaf Lettuce, Chervil, Leeks, Coriander, Parsley, Lemon Balm, Parsnips, Lovage, Peas, Mint, Potatoes, Tarrgon, Pumpkins, Thyme, Radish

-- Anonymous, April 04, 2001

Yep, raised beds are the way to go, IMO. The only drawback I've seen with them is that the beds drain quickly. This can be a problem when you have a dry summer. Things you can do to lessen that problem are lots and lots of compost added to the soil and mulching around the plants to reduce evaporation.

I've got three pictures of my raised beds at the Countryside friends picture pages:

My raised beds

But, if you haven't already done so, you'll need to sign up for membership before you can view them.

Here's a link to the main page:

Countryside friends picture pages

-- Anonymous, April 04, 2001

The Squarefoot Gardening book is a great timesaver as jz said. You can get manure from any stable or stockyard auction barn or fairground when a circus is in the area. Another alternative is to hutch a few rabbits or a wormbin. I keep about 150 lbs of vermiculture going in my back room to produce wormcast to make fertilizer tea for my gardens.

-- Anonymous, April 04, 2001

Betsy, I'm doing my first garden this year too! One book that's really helped me is "The Vegetable Gardeners Bible", I like it because it has lots of pictures ans step-by-step instructions for things like raised beds. I also have a book by the Burpee Seed company that is really good, I can't remember the name right now (I'm at work and it's at home). You can make raised beds just by mounding the soil up if you have good soil to begin with. I am in a very small suburban lot with hardpan clay instead of soil, so I am building wooden frames out of 2x12s and having top soil trucked in to fill them. Check your phone book, if you have a landscape or mulch company in the area they probably have topsoil, compost, and composted animal manures for sale. Check the big hardware chains too, the Menards store by my house has bags of composted manure on sale this week for cheaper than what I would have paid for it in bulk from the landscape company. I'm buying several bags to mix in with the topsoil that I'm putting in the raised beds. I also check around back at Lowes and Menards, they usually have a pile for the bags of stuff that have broken and they can't sell, last year I mulched all my flower beds for free using bags of mulch scrounged from the discard pile.

You have a greenhouse, I'm so jealous! That's going to have to wait until I have more room. I am planting tomatoes, peppers, beans, peas, carrots, beets, swiss chard, mesclun mix, summer squash, and a whole slew of herbs.

Jay, how much do worms eat? There's just the two of us at home, I'm wondering if we'd generate enough food scraps to make keeping worms worth the effort.

-- Anonymous, April 04, 2001

My boyfriend's grandfather built their house and greenhouse--it's the house we live in now. It's pretty incredible--and it's made out of honest-to-goodness glass! We have to get some of the panels replaced--they were destroyed by a hurricane a couple of years ago. Thanks for all your suggestions, and good luck with your gardens!

-- Anonymous, April 04, 2001

Betsy: People do well in shady areas too! Sit out and watch stuff grow. (Or not grow as sometimes happens)....Kirk

-- Anonymous, April 04, 2001

I'd suggest the first year should be more focused on learning than food production. Start with a small garden having many different types of plants. This would allow you learn about how well the plants you would like to raise perform in your microclimate. Faced with the winter doldrums, many of us have eyes bigger than our stomachs and this can lead to gardens larger than we need and can care for. One of the keys to gardening to is have fun and having an appropriately sized garden will help make your garden a lot of fun!

-- Anonymous, April 04, 2001

Betsy & friends , Congrats on your first garden. It will provide much enjoyment, much work (if you see it ithat way), hopefully plenty of edibles, and if nothing else a great place to enjoy mother Earth for all she's worth. Much GOOD advice here as expected but will reiterate one point; try as many plants and types of plants as practical and watch and learn what likes your soil, light , ph , etc. and by allmeans keep a journal of info for reference. By the way we are in WNY so I guess by internet standards we're practically next door. Hope you're thawing out well there and best of luck with yer' garden.

-- Anonymous, April 04, 2001

Betsy, I've grown cherry tomatoes in partial shade. They grow just fine, BUT they take longer to mature. Probably the vines get a bit 'leggier' than in full sun too. I'm in Zone 4B, and I think you're probably somewhere in Zone 5 or maybe even 6A, so you'd have a bit longer growing season than I.

-- Anonymous, April 04, 2001

Hi Betsy,

All good answers above. I'd give the best sun to the toms, peppers, and squashes, and then the berries. It takes more sun to ripen fruit than to produce leaves (or unripe fruit in the case of beans).

-- Anonymous, April 05, 2001

If you are going to grow things in your greenhouse and keep them in there through the season, you may have problems with too much heat and sun. The peppers and tomatoes will be okay but the lettuce will bolt if it gets too much heat and sun. Bolting means it tries to produce seed and it makes the leaves turn bitter. If you grow lettuce in the greenhouse, do so in the other three seasons or as a minimum put it in the shady area of the greenhouse. Even in New York a greenhouse will get well over 100 degrees in the summer months. This means you will have to water the plants a lot more. You are better off to start the plants in the greenhouse and then move them outside and then if you want to grow some plants in the winter months (if your greenhouse is heated) start some seeds in August and September and move the plants in then. If your message was intending to say that you are just going to start your plants in the greenhouse and then transplant them outside, then just forget everything I just said.

-- Anonymous, April 05, 2001

You guys are all the coolest. Thank you so much for the advice! We're right where zone 6 turns into zone 5--would that be 6A or 6B? So much to learn. I think you're right, Chris, about the learning thing. That's why I'm trying to hold back on fruit trees, raspberries etc for another year. And Colleen, we do want to use the greenhouse for growing--it has cranks or wheels (I don't know what you'd call them) so that the top panels tilt out to provide ventilation. And it is heated, so eventually we can produce year-round if we wanted to. Right now the electricity is turned off out there. And Laura, thanks for the good points about how it takes less sun to make leaves than it does to ripen fruit. I'll keep everybody posted. This weekend John (that's my boyfriend) and I are going to go manure hunting, should be fun.

-- Anonymous, April 05, 2001

Betsy, you would be either Zone 5B or 6A, but they are very BROAD zones, so you undoubtedly will have many "microclimates". Just as a generalization, shady and/or low lying (cool air can collect there) will be cooler microclimates, and sunny, higher areas will be warmer microclimates. In fact, inside your greenhouse is a microclimate -- a much warmer microclimate. Another spot that will be warmer would be in front of a stone or masonry (brick, concrete) wall.

-- Anonymous, April 05, 2001

Betsy, How wonderfull!! I'm excited for you! If I were to give you any advice, it would be to just start doing! Books can be helpful but you can read one thing one place and the opposite in another, ya know, stuff grows, just look at all the natural green growing all around us! Plant it Betsy, give it the water and nutrients that it craves, and bask it with love, and the miricle of life, will happen! All Joy of growing green things to you Betsy! Love Tren

-- Anonymous, April 06, 2001

All good answers! I agree mostly with the idea of starting off small, though! Give yourself a chance to be successful. You don't want to feel guilty or burdened in August by all the work you have to do to keep up with the big garden you planted in May. I think Mel Bartholomew said it well in his book.

Actually, the first year's garden is usually great! It's years two and three when it gets out of control, due to over-enthusiasm, as I recall...or was it years three through fifteen??? ;)

Good luck to you!!!

-- Anonymous, April 06, 2001

Betsy, Please keep us posted, I love hearing about a new gardener. Let us know how you are doing and how it is growing! Love Tren

-- Anonymous, April 10, 2001

Good advice! Hello to one and all. So far not much is happening--we've just had our first days of warm weather. I will keep you all posted though, and thanks again!

-- Anonymous, April 10, 2001