Here's a real challenge for you (getting started)

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For those of you who like a REAL challenge please respond.

I'll try to make this as short as I can and give you as much info as I can so you can repsond appropriately.

Here's my scenerio:

Married for 20 years. Hubby and I are both 40 (soon to be 41). Three children - 1 age 19 (lives out on her own), 1 age 16, 1 age 6 We live in Ft. Lauderdale, FL in the heart of one of the largest counties in the United States. I am of a simple mind and warmly embrace the homestead lifestyle. Hubby on the other hand is a city-slicker through and through but is beginning to at least entertain the possibility of a different lifestyle other than we are living right now. My interests are in learning to bake bread, plant and tend a garden, learn to can, have some small critters such as chickens (for eggs) and possibly rabbits (neither for meat), and to.... well, in general, cut back on just about all our spending including holiday/birthday spending, groceries, and all other frivolties. Our monthly bills are out of this world with our insurances, gas for three vehicles, rent, utilities (a/c just about year round - Summer will be in $250.00 - $300.00 range), etc. I feel that our spending has just gotten way out of hand and I want to curb it before we wind up in deep debt. I work full time outside the home (40+ hours a week). My employer pays for our family health insurance - (which we have not had in many years) (as we can not afford to pay it ourselves), and he also contributes to a retirement fund for me (something we have never had before). Hubby is self employed (construction industry). I know if we could only cut back our spending, we could get by on alot less money and therefore free up more time for the things in life I want to pursue (as mentioned above). I don't see the critter thing working out as long as we are living where we are because I don't think they are allowed. But anyay, my challenge to you is to come up with things (ideas) I/we can do (of the homesteading nature) that would give me some peace of mind that I need to gear me in the direction for later years when hopefully we will be able to live the homesteading lifestyle rather than only dream of it. Also how can we involve the two children. Teen will be very difficult as she is already set in her ways (lifestyle). The little guy loves the outdoors, animals, gardening etc. and I want to feed and nurture those desires and interests so he never loses them. Also, we have very little yard space as we live in a small townhouse and I only have a small plot (about 8' x 10') in which to "garden" (I am presently reading Square Foot Gardening by Mel Bartholomew as some of you recommended). I do have a small screened in back patio (porch) where I could possibly grow additional veges in containers. We have no friends or neighbors that we are friendly with (everyone here pretty much keeps to themselves and Hubby and I are pretty much loaners anyway). There is no one nearby to help me with the things that I am interested in and so I rely solely on you gracious folks here on this forum for any and all suggestions, ideas, encouragement and direction. Thanking you from the bottom of my heart in advance.....God Bless....Greenthumbelina

-- Greenthumbelina (sck8107@aol.com), April 06, 2001

Answers

Response to Here's a real challenge for you

First of all, take it one or two steps at a time, so you don't get overwhelmed. If you want to bake bread, start with that. Get a book or two from the library and learn how to make bread and rolls. Perhaps try to get by with less airconditioning, use fans for as long as possible, etc. Start shopping at thrift shops and garage sales, or have a garage sale if allowed where you live to get some seed money. Learn one skill at a time, and just add it to your daily routine. Before you know it, you will already be doing a lot of the things you would do on a larger place. Grow just tomatoes and salad veggies to start with, and maybe a few herbs. Perhaps put an ad in a freebie paper there asking for free canning jars and reasonable canning equipment, again using a book from the library, learn to can just one or two things, until you feel comfortable, then buy local produce and do more, if you have the storage space. Good luck, and if you keep at it, just chipping away a little at a time, your family will learn to enjoy all these new things, and maybe you will have less resistance to actually moving to a larger more rural place where you can branch out into the chickens, etc. Keep us informed of what you are doing, and remember there are lots of experienced minds on this forum, and they will be glad to help! Jan

-- Jan in CO (Janice12@aol.com), April 06, 2001.

Response to Here's a real challenge for you

Great advice from Jan--Homesteading is a state of mind. Just do what you can do now and learn things that you will need to know in the future. My wife and I were wanabees for 15 years and the thing that kept us going was reading about other peoples experiences and learning stuff like bread baking and gardening until we finally got to our place. Good luck---hang in there. Doug

-- Doug in KY (toadshutes@yahoo.com), April 06, 2001.

Response to Here's a real challenge for you

I "homesteaded" in the city for a while and the kids and I had a great time at it. Use that 8x10 spot to the fullest (don't forget a couple of flowers!!!) I baked bread, sewed, quilted, went to the farmer's market and bought produce to can, found some gardeners that had extra produce and canned and froze that. Just have fun, this is a short ride we are on and it can be very joyful and fulfilling where ever we are at the moment. good luck!!! and God bless.

-- diane (gardiacaprines@yahoo.com), April 06, 2001.

Response to Here's a real challenge for you

I want to hit on the cityslicker for a second. My husband moved to the country because I wanted to. I heard how much he hates this house often, especially when he had to do work on it, so I try to do everything myself. Recently, my goats had babies. I mentioned that one should be brought into the house and bottlefed. My husband said, "no goats in the house." The kid was dying so in the house she came. My cityslicker was upset that she was so weak and was so happy that she was okay in the morning. He was actually mad at me because I sold her. Before this, I would have said to make sure your family feels like you. Now, I believe there is hope....

-- Dee (gdgtur@goes.com), April 06, 2001.

Response to Here's a real challenge for you

To cut down on your expenses, keep a record of where your money is going. Cook from scratch, find a older cookbook to help you get started. Take the bus to work if possible, do you really eed three cars.Start looking for a place in the country with cheaper rent.Learn to sew. Good luck you can do it.

-- Martha Matthews (marthafromwa@webtv.com), April 06, 2001.


Response to Here's a real challenge for you

Greenthumbelina, let me start by asking has you husband ever visited a farm? When my husband and I were married 17 years ago he had never been on what I consider a real working farm, (livestock, gardens) he was raised on a farm but the only thing his family raised was corn and beans large farm. His mother never aloud animals and no garden. So when I started telling him what I wanted and how I wanted it, he could not see himself living like that so I took him to some of my family's farms on the weekends and all it took was for him to see animals born, fresh eggs, milk a cow he was hooked and so were the kids. You may want to try that with your own kids and husband to see if they like all those little things. Like everyone else has said take everything one step at a time try to look around your area to see if they is any houses for rent that would be cheaper and with alittle bigger yard. Also if you check with your local extension office it is usually in the court house, they will have a list of local farms with produce for sell usually for a small fee and you pcik it. Also they can give you small booklets on canning, drying, gardening to get you started. Shop at yard sales, thrift stores you get the picture. One thing that help me with my food bill is that my family sits down plans our meals for the week and when I go shopping I get only what on the list, also when shopping for food I stay away for places like wal mart to much temptation to buy other items than what is on my list. Watch the sale adds, for everything alot of stores offer admatch. When we started out we had a plan with a time line, that might be the best way to go have a family meeting and decide just what everyone want's as far as the future, set a goal even if you are only half way to your goal at least you made it that far. When it come to Christmas and other holiday gifts try crafts,or baked goods one year at Christmas we drew names and everyone had to make something even if it was just a simple card it came from the heart, set limits on spending and I know that's the hard one with utilities, and insurances as high as they are, even if you just drop your utilities say 10 or 20 dollars a month over a year that adds up its little things that adds over a period of time. Now I'm babbling on and on I guess what I'm trying to say is if this is what you want them it will happen some way so how you'll get their and I do wish you all the luck and happeness. God Bless.

-- tracy emily in TN (emilyfarms@tsixroads.com), April 07, 2001.

Response to Here's a real challenge for you

Hello Greenthumbelina, Meli and I can relate quite a bit with you. We moved to one of the remotest counties in Missouri (Ozark) from Orlando, Florida. We gave it much thought (several years) and spend three years of vacation time searching for the most ideal spot to move, build a house, and raise a family. One of the first things we did is get completely out of debt. That is a must if you want to follow your dream of moving to the country. We planned every expense and managed to save enough money to buy our land in cash. We inventoried all our possessions and decided what was the most important things we needed at our new location, then sold everything else. You can find list of essentials in early anthologies of the magazine Backwoods Home. Our expenses in Orlando required us both to work 40 plus hour shifts. With the cost of transportation, housing, clothing, cell phones, etc., we were spending nearly $1600 per month! Now, we grow our own vegetables, raise our own meat and eggs, are building our own house, making our own soap and quilts and such, and also both are self employed at doing something we both like to do. Our cost of living is NOW $250-$300 a month. We do not have the kids that you have but, we do have one...she was one year old last week. In Florida we too did not have any friends, since Meli and I have always be lone wolves ourselves but, here we have made many friends and they have helped us in many, many ways. (I personally feel that friends are more necessary in the country anyway). If you would like to see two city slickers make it in the country you are welcome to take a look at our website. Sincerely, Ernest http://communities.msn.com/livingoffthelandintheozarks

-- Ernest in the Ozarks (espresso42@hotmail.com), April 07, 2001.

Response to Here's a real challenge for you

In addition to all the above good advice, you can utilize other space besodes your small plot to grow stuff. Some old car tires stacked 3 high and filled with earth/compost mix in a corner will grow plenty of potatoes. You just pull the whole thing apart when you want to harvest them. An old plastic trash can with the same mix wll do to grow carrots. The carrots grow straight down with no stones to obstruct them and because the container is above ground level, carrot fly should not be a problem.

You can push canes in the containers and cover with an upside down clear polythene bag and you have an instant temporary greenhouse over your containers. You probably have most of these things already, so all you need to get are some seeds and maybe some compost.

Even a small amount of veggies to start with will save quite a bit of money later in the year when you harvest them. In the meantime, you can read up on how to use them (root cellar, canning, value added processing etc) most effectively.

Start off with the gardening and bread making if you want to gradually ease the homesteading concept into your familiy's life. Once they get used to warm fresh baked bread and the taste of home grown vegetables they won't accept bland wishy-washy store bought ones again.

This will also look less conspicuous in your present location. Gardening is generally accepted as a "normal" activity everywhere, so you can get the locals used to what they might otherwise consider eccentric. Then when the garden is blooming, build a rabbit hutch and get a pet rabbit (if this is permitted). A pet like this will help your kids to feel they're in the countryside. If they get to that stage, it might be less of a culture shock and might provide less objections when you finally do make the move for real. Anyway, these are just suggestions. They worked for me. Good luck and keep us posted on how you are progressing (or not) - and remember, we're a community here so ask your questions (there are NO stupid questions) and they'll be answered. Eric

-- Eric J Methven (e_methven@btinternet.com), April 07, 2001.

Glad to hear your trying to do more on the simple lifestyle. My sugestion would be when you have days off to make up extra dishes that you could freeze. Use these whe nyour running out of time or if you or your husband might be sick. It will help free up a little time. Thats all I have to say as there was a lot of great posts already!! Good luck!!

-- michelle (tsjheath@ainop.com), April 07, 2001.

I just wated to personally thank each of you for all the wonderful suggestions and the inspiration and encouragement to keep on keepin' on. I have saved all of your posts in a private folder entitled "Inspiration/Encouragement". Sometimes I wonder if I'm cut out for this but as my Mama always tells me, "God gave you these desires for a reason so hang on to them." That's just what I intend to do. Not only hang on to them but live them. Many thanks again for all your input. I will keep you posted as to how things progress.

-- Greenthumbelina (sck8107@aol.com), April 08, 2001.


You could check into a nursing home or a seniors center in your area where the tenants can have access to the grounds and offer to provide the labor to plant a small garden on their property. You can then have the tenants come out and watch you (and I'm sure some will be able to teach you a lot about how to garden). Nursing homes frequently are looking to have people who can come do things for the tenants to give them some diversion. They may even pay for the seeds and to have someone rototil the area. My friend and I have been going to a local nursing home this winter and helping them to make a quilt to hang in their building. The nursing home bought all of the material. We just show up with our ironing board, rotary cutter and sewing machines.

Also, sometimes you can find community garden space where you live. Check with your local extension service or town or county government.

Good luck.

-- Colleen (pyramidgreatdanes@erols.com), April 09, 2001.


You could probably do most of what you mentioned right from the townhouse! Depends on how creative you are.

Rabbits are usually considered to be pets, so if your complex allows pets, you could have a couple. Two does and one buck will keep you in rabbit meat till your eyes bulge if done right - and there is not need for a foul smell.... Our cages are hung from the frame of our deck, and don't take up any floor space. We raise worms under them, which takes care of 90% of our garbage, all their 'offerings' and spilled feed. Not a sound nor a smell. They are quiet, friendly, surprisingly tolerant (I am the ultimate clutz!!) rather cheap to feed, and very easy to care for. The kids could do this one on their own... Rabbits are big in 4H - even for the younger kids.

BTW - rabbit manure can go straight into the garden without composting!!! So you don't have to have worms under - just helps with the rest of the household garbage (the bedding is newspapers and other paper products, and they can even take limited amounts of animal scraps)

Containers are great for gardening - by circumstance I have a small yard but still have to grow everything in containers. Hubby built a long one that runs along two sides of our trailer out of scrap wood and garden paper, but even old shoes will work if they have to. I have always grown as much of our food as I can, and don't plan on changing that...

Our planter is a home made version of the "Earth Box." All the same systems, but put together with old soda bottles, black weed barrier (no chemicals added) and wood. I couldn't see spending the $30 on a plastic can.... the 'mulch' is old torn garbage bags that were used for other things. Does all the same stuff, and uses almost all recycled materials.

I am getting (and have gotten) most of my seed this year from the garden exchanges website (type in 'seed exchange' at google's search engine - also, 'free stuff for gardeners'). Last year I bought from catalogs and spent over $100. Course, I buy books, too.... This year, I spent $15. All the seed is open-pollinated, so I won't have to buy those again, and can spend my money next year on stuff I'd like to try but couldn't afford before.

Don't forget that many veggies will grow 'vertical' - like melons, tomatoes, beans, peas, etc. Also, rows are a waste when you are talking about such a tiny area. Tomatoes grown up a net can be placed as close as 4" with no problems. Plants can also be mixed, and planted inches on the center. In about 100 square feet, I will have the plants to produce all of our food at least till Spring next year, if not into the summer. Thats for three people, four dogs, the cat and our rabbits (5 - 6 full-timers). I even have some small window-box type planters for medicinal herbs, and grow lots of stuff inside the house.

There is a system called 'bio-intensive' that sounds a lot harder than it is. It also makes a lot of promises that may seem 'too good to be true' but it DOES work! I have used it for over 10 years now... I ain't dead yet, so the veggies must have some value! I would be considered organic, but for the fact that I use Miracle Gro after seeds have sprouted (when starting them indoors). I could use manure tea, but am too lazy....

We don't own an air-conditioner, so that's a mute point for me, but we do get temps up over 100 fairly frequently. Despite being in Idaho, we are in high mountain desert, so the temps fluctuate like you wouldn't believe!! Damp rags and small fans work great. So do light colored but thick shades on all the south-facing windows. Keeping the house closed during the day and open in the evening will also help with the temps.

Doing more things outside helps to save electric, too... I read out there, do whatever chores I can, write, etc etc. That way, not only do the lights stay off more, but so does the blasted TV, which has always been my downfall (love affair with the history channel, ya know, lol!!)

My husband is also quite a city=slicker. He is willing to learn, though - all he needs is encouragement. He loves animals, though hates to admit it, so that's half the challenge right there! Just managed to get him to give away that blasted coffee maker, so we are essentially 'appliance challenged' finally! We cook on a propane stove (camp stove) and have a fridge. No toaster, food processor, blender, mixer, microwave, etc etc. I have electric hand-held beaters for cakes, though... Lazy again. But - no washer or dryer, either. Looking to get a non-electric one from Lehmans if there is such a thing these days.

Get most of my canning jars by bartering... One case of jars gets jelly, a dressed rabbit, etc etc.

So - if you are determined, you can get really close to homesteading even in the middle of the city if you want - no need to go to the extremes I have!! (I probably wouldn't have gone so far had there been more room in the little u-haul we moved with!)

Hope this helps -

-- Sue Diederich (willow666@rocketmail.com), April 09, 2001.


You might wish to check out a website I found recently: frugalmoms.com (I believe. AOL saves the site by the title not address). It has a once-a-month cooking area with menus and other things of interest.

-- Sandra in CO (ColoradoDaisyMae@aol.com), April 12, 2001.

Hello Greenthumbelina! I totally understand where you are coming from. My husband had never lived in the country until I practicly sold him on it. Then we went through that "reality" thing for a year or two with not having all the tools we needed, but now my husband LOVES it!! Do not give up hope. Once the trial year is over, He grew to love the quiet, no neighbors being loud, and the freedom on your own place. I would suggest what we did. We made a list of all the hand tools we would need, and I got him interested in it and he said what he would like to have. It was an important list, because I started to get a $10 item here and there until we had some decent tools. I bought some of them when we lived in a third floor apartment :) I still forgot about some items, and had to buy a couple of things once we were here, but it really eased the stress of "moving time" to already have a axe, shovel or whatever. I also think the square foot gardening idea is excellent, and my sister has reported great things with that method. I have rabbits and they are quiet and eat any left over carrots, bread, etc. so feed costs go down. ** Also, if you know any gardeners (family, etc.) maybe they will give you their older seed? That is a free garden :) I just planted some older peas, and they are coming up. You may have to plant two to get one plant from 3-4 yr. old seed, but if they are free that is all the more food for no cost. **To get your husband interested, you may want to plan on paper what it would take to become self-sufficient. What husband wouldn't like a way to make it without paying tons to electric, or gas, or water, etc.? Retirement could happen earlier if you had a way to support your own food, sell extra, maybe buy a windmill or something for those A/c days? I'm not sure what it would take to run that, but it could reduce any bills... just some ideas. ~Brenda

-- Brenda (brenclark@alltel.net), April 13, 2001.

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