Okay, Biologicals used on Civilians and Military

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Hey there, Here's one of the censored posts. This one hits close to home because my folks live very near Ft Leonard Wood. Please let me know what you think of this.

These are a few of the un Constitutional acts of the government that should be enough to cause anyone who really cares about the Constitution and those principles to get out of the military. Also purely a matter of health. Enlisted men (woman, people!) should not be used as guinea pigs and neither should the citizenry. Let me know if you disagree.

Executive order gives DOD power to use investigational drugs on military Feds say rules improve safeguards, critics say it will erode their rights

J. Stryker Meyer Staff Writer WASHINGTON ---- President Clinton signed Executive Order 13139 on Sept. 30 authorizing the Department of Defense to administer "new investigational drugs" to troops ---- with or without their consent ---- to protect them from biological, chemical or radiological agents during military actions.

During Operation Desert Storm, the secretary of defense had the authority to give soldiers two new unlicensed drugs ----pyridostigmine bromide, in 30-milligram tablets, and botulinum toxoid vaccine ---- Dr. William Raub told Shay's subcommittee. Raub is deputy assistant secretary for science policy at the Department of Health and HumanServices.

"Pyridostigmine bromide was considered a potentially useful pre-treatment against certain nerve gases (and) botulinum toxoid vaccine is widely accepted as offering potential protection against ... botulism," Raub testified.

The FDA approved the Defense Department's request to administer the tablets and vaccine on Dec. 31, 1990, and Jan. 8, 1991, respectively, Raub said. "Both products," he said, "were administered to portions of the military personnel who participated in Operation Desert Storm."...

A drug that is "investigational" ---- a drug that hasn't gone completely through the FDA's lengthy approval process ----isn't necessarily experimental or unsafe, said Defense Department spokesman James D. Turner. "Rather, it means that a particular product has not been approved by FDA for general commercial marketing, but rather for a particularly stated medical purpose," Turner said last week. The "investigational" drugs were tested on primates, but not on people ####"because it would be unethical to give a test group drugs that would kill people ... so we do tests on primates."#####...

"It's ridiculous," said Arthur Bernklau, executive director of the New York-based Veterans for Constitutional Law Limited. "We're not serving under the King of England. "(The executive order) should be rescinded immediately. ... I think it'll have a tremendous negative impact on re-enlistments, because slowly the word is spreading among military personnel today about the risks of (Defense Department) and FDA-sanctioned vaccines, including (pyridostigmine bromide)."

.... Gulf War veterans returned home suffering maladies from both the toxicological and radiological elements they encountered in Iraq and Kuwait and from the pyridostigmine bromide tablets. "It appears as though the drugs issued to military troops during the Gulf War were not adequately researched and that (soldiers) were used as guinea pigs," said vonKleist, a registered nurse and a captain in the inactive Air Force reserves. "We believe that 75 percent of the Gulf War veterans who are sick are ill from the vaccine."

MORE....

In response to the Federal Register inquiry, the FDA says it received 134 comments on the Pentagon's use of pyridostigmine bromide and on the issue of waiving military members' consent. The FDA says 114 respondents filed those 134 comments, which "stated that informed consent was absolutely essential and that military personnel, like other nonmilitary citizens, should receive adequate information about an investigational product before its use and the right to refuse to receive it."

Lake Sun Leader October 29, 2000

Petitioners sign to halt use of bio agents

By Marsha Paxson

LAKE OF THE OZARKS - Allegations of deformed cows, aborted pigs and human health problems are three reasons why hundreds of spectators at a public forum have signed a petition to halt the use of biological agents on Department of the Army installations in Missouri.

More than 350 people attended a town hall meeting in the Versailles Middle School Thursday, where organizers asked the audience to sign the petition, which will be forwarded to Gov. Roger Wilson.

"We no longer want to be the government's guinea pigs," said Joyce Riley vonKleist. "We demand that the use of these biological agents and other possibly toxic substances be stopped and that the state revoke permits until the public has given its written, conformed consent."

Riley, from Versailles, is a Persian Gulf veteran and flight nurse who served during wartime. She and husband Dave vonKleist, active in the American Gulf War Veteran's Association, presented the informational meeting to let what they call an "unsuspecting public" know about what type of training is going on at Fort Leonard Wood without their consent.

But post officials say the public was informed through public notices and the simulated biological agent being used for training purposes, called bacillus subtilis, is a safe, dead form of the simulant. It is released in water in an aerosol spray through an agricultural-type sprayer.

Fort Leonard Wood spokesman Mike Warren said the simulant triggers a response in a training device called the Biological Integrated Detection System BIDS.

"It drifts in line with the wind and it acts like an agent that is out there in combat so that soldiers can learn to detect and analyze it," Warren said. "Bacillus subtilis contains non-pathogenic bacteria and has been tested to ensure it is not dangerous."

But farmer Betty Adams said recent occurrences on her farm, 20 miles from the post's back gates may prove the training is far from harmless.

Since last December, shortly after the post's chemical units began dispersing the spray, Adams helped birth a five-legged cow.

"It was born with a completely formed fifth leg and hoof coming out of its back," Adams said. "At first we thought it was just a freak of nature thing, but now we're not sure."

Within an eight week period Adams witnessed a still born cow as well as one born two months premature.

"The cow that came early didn't suckle and blood came out its throat," Adams said. "It lived three weeks."

In the same time frame, Adams one sow delivered 13-14 dead babies. Two weeks ago another sow gave birth.

"This time the babies were all born really small and the mother had gone completely dry and couldn't feed them," Adams said. "Only three out of those 12 pigs are still alive."

While some may say it was just a stroke of bad luck on Adams' farm, the family farmer said she isn't taking any chances. The three surviving pigs will be tested for signs of bacillus subtilis in their bloodstream.

If the test results are positive Adams said she will likely hire an attorney to plead her case and fight against the release of any more simulants on the post.

Riley said with the type of training being conducted at Fort Leonard Wood, there is a strong likelihood that farmers miles from the installation, such as those in Versailles, Stover and in local Mennonite communities could be losing cattle. And thousands of Missouri residents could be unwittingly exposed to the agent's toxins, she said.

"The simulant being used on Fort Leonard Wood is a member of the bacillus globigii family, known to cause spontaneous abortions in cattle and sheep and compromise the immune systems of the elderly, chronically ill and young," Riley said. "The bacteria released can travel hundreds of miles and the spores can remain active for decades."

The Department of the Army's Committee on Armed Services contends that the live version of bacillus subtilis can be found naturally in soil, water and decomposing plant residues.

"This substance has been tested extensively and is not considered toxic to humans, plants or animals," said Lt. Col. Everett Maynard, Jr., legislative counsel for the Army.

Missouri Department of Natural Resources spokesman John Young said DNR regulates how much of the simulant can be released, where it can be used and over what time span in an effort to determine a simulant's effect on air pollution quality.

"At the time we issued a permit to Fort Leonard Wood we were told by the Environmental Protection Agency and the Centers for Disease Control that the simulant being used is not harmful," Young said. "If new information has come to light that would have an effect on the permit we'd have to look at it. And we will."

According to DNR permits, a maximum of four pounds of the simulant can be released in a 24-hour period.

Post officials said trainees only use one pound per 24-hour period and only one day is used for each of the four to five classes held with the simulant each year.

DNR spokesperson Connie Patterson said Fort Leonard Wood complied with its permitting process and provided them with all the pertinent information about the bacteria they were planning to use before the post started BIDS unit training in fall 1999.

Government officials have noted that bacillus subtilis has been used for more than 40 years at the Dugway Proving Ground in Utah and was used for six years at Fort McClellan, Ala. before the unit transferred to Fort Leonard Wood. No adverse environmental or health effects were reported on those installations.

One of the next installations slated to begin BIDS training with bacillus subtilis is at Fort Polk, La., home of the Army's 7th Chemical Company. They will begin training there in Jan. 2001.

In August the Department of Defense placed a notice in the back of a daily newspaper outside Fort Polk, announcing its plans to begin such training on the 199,000-acre post.

When residents near the installation began questioning the move, Fort Polk officials released an environmental assessment document on the post.

"The proposed training activity poses virtually no risk to human health or the environment," the report reads. "Only three areas at Fort Polk will be used for this training and it will only be conducted in weather conditions favorable to prevent off-post drift of the release. This training would occur only 12 times per year."

Similar back-page notices appeared in newspapers around Fort Leonard Wood and as close to Lake of the Ozarks as Lebanon. None of the notices mentioned bacterial agents nor did they specifically mention bacillus subtilis.

This news surprised Rep. Chuck Pryor, R-Versailles, who said he wants to know more about the training and what agents are being used.

"I want to learn more about the whole picture," Pryor said. "But if this information is true, I will take action."

Pryor said his staff is now contacting residents who live or lived in communities near military installations that currently train or once trained with bacillus subtilis.

"It's important to see what they may have experienced or are experiencing as a possible result of such training," Pryor said. "We need information on bacillus subtilis from unbiased sources as well. We have to look at the big picture and learn all we can to make informed decisions."

Copyright 2000 The Lake Sun Leader. All rights reserved. 4) Lake Sun Leader November 06, 2000

It's alive: Army backtracks on spray

Army had said Fort Leonard Wood bio-warfare training spray uses dead bacteria, now says that wasn't true. Still safe, spokesman says.

By Marsha Paxson

LAKE OF THE OZARKS - The Army is saying now that information given out about a training spray that has brought charges of bio-hazard was not correct .

Spokesman Mike Warren admitted Monday he told the public and members of the press that the chemical school at Fort Leonard Wood south of the Lake of the Ozarks was using a dead version of bacillus subtilis in its training exercises, when, in fact, the live version has been used there since last fall.

"The original information we got from a source at the chemical school was not correct," Warren said. "We didn't lie about it and we weren't trying to mislead anyone."

But in its official statement, the Investigations and Legislative Division of the Committee on Armed Services in Washington also said the dead form was being used, saying it "is a non-pathogenic bacterium commonly found in soils, water and decomposing plant residues."

"This substance has been tested extensively and is not considered toxic to humans, plants or animals," said Lt. Col. Everett Maynard, Jr., legislative counsel for the Army.

Armed Services Committee officials have not issued a retraction or clarification on the issue.

Warren had originally said that soldiers on Fort Leonard Wood were using a dead form of the bacillus which is released in an aerosol spray through an agricultural-type sprayer as part of biological-warfare training.

The spray drifts in line with the wind and simulates a biological attack so that soldiers can learn to detect and analyze it. "Soldiers use an air-monitoring unit, or Biological Integrated Detection System (BIDS) to detect the simulated agent," Warren said. "The only reason we use the simulant is to trigger a response in the BIDS system."

Warren said whether the version of biological agent is alive or dead does not change the Army's compliance with appropriate state permits to release such bacteria at Fort Leonard Wood.

News of the erroneous information surfaced last Friday when Department of Natural Resources officials sent out a fact sheet about bacillus subtilis, Fort Leonard Wood's use of the simulant and DNR's role in the permit process. DNR officials said they had been told by Fort Leonard Wood the live version of the simulant was being used in biological defense training.

The question of whether the bacteria used in the spray is genetically altered was also posed. Warren said it is not. Despite his assurances, however, DNR officials say they will investigate further.

"The DNR will be collecting a sample of the bacteria used at Fort Leonard Wood to be tested by an independent laboratory to confirm this," officials reported.

But Joyce Riley von Kleist, an American Gulf War Veterans Association spokesman and flight nurse from Versailles who served during the Persian Gulf War, said it doesn't matter if the Army says the simulant is dead because there is no such thing as a safe biological simulant.

"This is just one example of the government treating us like unsuspecting guinea pigs," Riley said. "They haven't been upfront and honest with us from the beginning."

Opponents of the spray contend it puts livestock and residents of the area at risk.

Hundreds of lake area petitioners have signed forms asking Gov. Roger Wilson to halt the releases on military installations across the state. In addition, opponents with the Missouri Coalition for the Environment have filed an appeal to the Missouri Air Conservation Commission to force Fort Leonard Wood officials to stop all biological and chemical-warfare training exercises.

DNR officials said the post is complying with required records for how much of the bacteria is used on a daily and annual basis.

OR HOW "BOUT WE SHOOT THEM WITH Microwaves?

A nonlethal weapon designed to incapacitate people by firing pain-causing micro-millimeter waves will be tested at Kirtland Air Force Base, N.M.

The weaponé─˘s existence was first made public in March 5 issues of Marine Corps Times.

Ité─˘s the kind of pain you would feel if you were being burned, said Rich Garcia, a spokesman for the Air Force Research Laboratory at the base. Ité─˘s just not intense enough to cause any damage.

A prototype of the military weapon will be tested on goats and humans at Kirtland in the next few months, he said.

The program, dubbed active denial technology, could be used for riot control and peacekeeping missions when deadly force is not necessary, officials said.

The device works by firing micro-millimeter waves that penetrate just beneath a personé─˘s skin, heating it by a few dozen degrees and causing severe pain.

When it penetrates in, it activates the pain sensors, and you feel a lot of pain, Garcia said. But thereé─˘s no damage.

The Marine Corps, which is heading the militaryé─˘s effort to develop nonlethal weapons, ultimately hopes to mount the microwave weapon on top of Humvees.

-- Doreen (animalwaitress@yahoo.com), April 09, 2001

Answers

Bows and spears would be a lot easier to deal with! Nice point on the "getting smarter" aspect, too! I'll post a few others. This was one of the gigantic, humongously big ones. It rattles my cage!

-- Doreen (animalwaitress@yahoo.com), April 09, 2001.

Hey JC, nice to have you here! Didn't Pallidin settle and accept culpability for selling the "Hit Man" book a few years back? I have a friend that is a book dealer, and I seem to remember him telling me that. Another great book source is Loompanics.

I will post the other deleted threads a bit at a time. Right now...I HAVE to get to work!

-- Doreen (animalwaitress@yahoo.com), April 09, 2001.


I'm glad I don't live near Fort Leonard Wood! I don't know what else to say -- you would think people would get smarter over time, if evolution was really true. Stuff like this should make it pretty evident that it's the Bible that is true, after all! I'd heard about the heating weapon on another list, people were wanting to protest its being tested on goats (it was a goat list). I wish they'd dump all the advanced technology stuff and go back to spears and bows and arrows -- it would sort of level the playing field for all us little people!! (Never happen, I know!)

-- Kathleen Sanderson (stonycft@worldpath.net), April 09, 2001.

The spears and bows and arrows bit is why a LOT of people wanted Y2K to hit big time. If I were to be truthful, I kind of hankered after it myself - in a selfish sort of way, because I knew I could cope and provide for my family with primitive skills.

Anyway, it all might go belly up in our lifetime so who knows what skills we'll need to hone and refine.

Eric

-- Eric J Methven (e_methven@btinternet.com), April 09, 2001.


The military has always been a test center for experiments. You waive your rights because you become property of the US Govt. It doesn't make it right, but it's true. History alone should keep people out of the military, but not everyone believes or remembers these things.....until the next episode on TV, then they forget it as soon as the show is over. I also read the microwave thing on worldnetdaily.com, and there is also a book called "Poor Man's Ray Gun" available from Palladin Press (as well as many more great titles). It's about making a microwave weapon w/ simple parts and an old microwave. I would advise using caution and common sense, as you could cause yourself great harm. It's one of the books on my wish list, but I do have many of their books of this nature. Another that I do have is Ragnar Benson's (many great books) "Breath of the Dragon", on homemade and agricultural flame throwers. This is the one weapon that you can successfully defend yourself against large #'s of people and armored vehicles, and there are no regulations on manufacture or ownership.....yet. You can buy them from far supply companies for burning weeds on fence rows. PS....Leave China alone, we are totally in the wrong. We should apologize. The propaganda in this country is really starting to get bad.

-- JC (survivors00@hotmail.com), April 09, 2001.


I hate to sound really ignorant and unable to understand, but when we are talking about these agents that drift on the wind, are we talking about the comtrails? We had planes(unmarked white planes, in pairs) criss-cross over our area for several days in a row last year. They would go back and forth for hours leaving trails that drifted and merged and eventually looked like clouds, making some really odd looking sundowns some days. We felt we were being sprayed with something but would maybe never know what.

-- mary, texas (marylgarcia@aol.com), April 09, 2001.

This weekend on Coast to Coast AM during open lines a man from the Columbus, Ohio, area called in and said they had experienced very heavy military plane traffic a few days ago, and now everyone in the area was having nosebleeds that lasted several days. At least on entire family had to be hospitalized because the bleeding was so heavy. Anyone here know anything about that?

-- Green (ratdogs10@yahoo.com), April 09, 2001.

I have copied this and sent it to friends of mine that live about 40 miles (by road, 15 by straight shot) from Fort Wood. Hope you don't mind.

One point.... Who says that drugs that DO go through the FDA process are safe???? Take a look at all the stuff they have to recall already this year. Some's been on the market since I can remember!

I agree with Eric on all counts... I kinda wanted Y2K to be really disruptive to all those folks out there that think they can survive without lifting a finger. But, I also think something's coming... maybe not quick, but its out there, and headed our way.

-- Sue Diederich (willow666@rocketmail.com), April 09, 2001.


Okay, I do not know why my posts go to the head, so I will use a fake for my "comments.

Comtrails are from jets, this is just chemical spraying at low levels.

S, NO problem copying this and forwarding it. Here's the deal on copywrite, if you don't take credit for it and you give proper credit you may copy and paste. This is for information exchange only so it isn't about a profit at all.

Green, perhaps you'd like to post that article you emailed me about Canada to explain comtrails a bit more? Perhaps not! Just a thought!

-- Dreen (bisquit@here.com), April 09, 2001.


Ya Doreen, they did settle that lawsuit. What a joke! It's as bad as the lawsuits against the firearms manufacturers. I meant to mention loompanics as well, you read my mind. Also another great book is the homemade submachine gun by P.A. Luty (I think), about making a 9mm submachine gun w/ no machining at all. Just a few common tools and a drill press is best to have as well. Almost completely made out of round and square and rectangular steel tubing. This is in line with the Sten submachine guns of British manufacture during WWII. Cheap, quickly manufactured, and reliable. The only problem w/ the book is converting the dimensions to workable sizes all in inches. Part of the tubes are in inches and part in mm. I was told in my area that they could only order tubing in inches, so you have to change some of the dimensions of the other parts to fit the new sizes. It's not as simple as converting from metric to inches, there are simply not the metric equivalents available (at least in my area) in inches. They are totally different sizes. Anyway, this poor guy is serving or was serving 4 yrs in a jail in the UK for manufacturing this weapon. Even after the courts and the judges agreed that he had no intention of harming anyone. Remember folks, possession of a firearm capable of full auto fire, that you don't have the license for from the BATF, gets you up to 25K fine and up to 25 yrs in jail. Don't make one if you don't mean business, and if you do make one, don't blab about it to others. For all the rest of you (myself included, in some things) there may come a time when the benefit of these items far outways the risks. Take explosives for example. I have tampered small scale w/ homemades a bit, but don't really want to risk blowing off a limb or digit just to get a good thump and bang for enjoyment. But it will be worth the risk if you are being persecuted. Sorry to be so negative! Think positive! Think self-sufficiency! Think homesteading! Think Rapture! Oh......I'm finally quiting my corporate job to start homesteading (my wife and I), even though we didn't get enough money saved for the solar system. We just wont have electric for a while. I'll get a part time dinky job for a small income and we will get it all done in good time. I can't say that my life so far has been enjoyable, but these last 3 years have been hell. Can't wait to quit and get away from all the other 9-5ers (no offense anyone, it's just not the life for me). Hope to start our own small biz of growing nursery stock and annuals/perennials all for cash. Farewell IRS! I choose not to participate in this greedy american way. I gotta go to bed, or I will go on and on and on. Thanks for letting my write Doreen!

-- JC (survivors00@hotmail.com), April 16, 2001.


PS, it's not P.A. Luty, that's another book on what the cops can do to you concerning probable cause, etc. Another good read. Sorry, I don't have the other authors name in front of me. It's in Paladdin or used to be. I've noticed they have dropped some titles. Gee, wonder why? ya right.

-- JC (survivors00@hotmail.com), April 16, 2001.

Just found your site yesterday. I found the Army spraying story very Interesting. You should be very vocal with your complaints, though it will get you on a list somewhere. 27 years ago,1968, I lived in Salt Lake City, Utah, acutually I lived there until 3 years ago, so I obviously didn't even learn from my own experience. I worked in a Silver and Gold refinery on the shores of the Great Salt Lake. 30 miles due north of Dugway, also due downwind the majority of the year. I was 25 years old and the absolute picture of health. I worked pretty much straight graveyard shift at the refinery and had a day job as a mechanic. I lived in Provo, Utah about 60 miles south from work. I got off graveyard one morning, as near as I can remember it was about July 25. I drove to Provo not feeling well and went home rather than to the shop to work. As soon as I got home I started to vomit and had diarrhea. I got sicker as the morning progressed and by 10am was violently vomiting non-stop and began to feel paralysis. I was laying on the bathroom floor and couldn't get up, couldn't even move my hands and arms. A neighbor helped my wife drag me to the car and we went to the doctors office. After about 10 minutes at the doctors, he insisted I leave the office ( his brother was the towns leading OBGYN, my wife's too. She was 6 months pregnant). He called ahead to the Utah Valley Hospital and when I arrived they put me in isolation, fearing initially that I had Spinal Meningitis. I continued to vomit and shit uncontrollably, for 10 days. I ran a fever of 108 degrees for 7 or 8 days and then it gradually began to subside. I was negative for Meningitis from 3 spinal tapes and no "known" bacteria or virus strains were identified. I was immersed in ice 3 times for and hour each time, which would drop the temperature 2 degrees,to 106,while in the ice. On about day 4 or 5 two uniformed Army doctors walked into my room and began to question me and asked if they could examine me. Where did I live? Had I been out by Dugway lately ? (yes, I had driven that route to work as a diversion one night even though it was 10 miles further). What had I been eating? Where did I work? ( Kennecott Silver Refinery, eyes go up). And just where exactly is that? (told them where). I asked them why they were interested in me cause I'm in a hospital that's probably 50 miles from the nearest Army base. They said they always monitored the teletype messages to the Disease Control Center in Atlanta and that I was hot news on the wire right now. I asked again where they worked and they would not say. My doctor walked in about here and asked who they were and why they had not contacted him if they wanted to examine me. They apologized and asked what tests had been done recently that were not communicated to the CDC. Told me they sure hoped I got better and left. They were back the next day and asked to draw blood and get samples of all bodily fluids. I again asked them where they were stationed and after refusing to allow any more of an examination if they didn't tell me, they admitted what I had already guessed, they were from Dugway. They wanted to know if I had been rabbit hunting out by Dugway? (No, not since you kill sheep and are real slow to admit it, I don't hunt rabbits out that way anymore). What kind of work do I do at the Refinery? ( make silver, gold. platinum, palladium, and selenium). Do you ever work out side at night. (sometimes, depending on the job you rerate to). Lots of poking and palpitating going on as they question. Liver, stomach, bowel ect. pretty thorough exam. My doctor is watching and not real happy. Finally, one of the doctors takes his partner aside for a minute and the have a whisper conversation and I ask my doctor if he thinks we have a little Dugway leak going here. "Real possible" he says. The Army doctors step back over and ask if I had worked outside at night in the last week. (yes) . They look at each other a moment and finally one says "Were you working outside the night of the 24th, between midnight and 2:30am?" (Yes, I was) How are you sure, you obviously have a high grade fever here and why are you so sure? ("Because it was the last night I worked and I was the Fume Control Operator that night and it pays about $1 an hour more than my regular job and I remember those kind of things"). I asked him point blank if they had had a leak at Dugway and if they were going to help me? They just looked at me and said, " There is nothing that can be done for what you have". I asked again if they had a leak? They said, "we have to go now, good luck" and turned around and walked out. My doctor followed them down the hall to the elevator questioning them, I could hear him clear down the hall. Dr. Craig Clark was not the quiet type and he was about half pissed. He came back and said all they would say was, " there is nothing you can give him for this, discontinue all drug therapy and pray. The fact that he has made it this long is a miracle and a good sign, he may make it". Well, I did make it. I went from 155 lbs. to 95 lbs. I puked up my entire stomach lining and couldn't eat normal for about 6 months. I had seizures for a while and still have "flashbacks" to this day. I have a strange memory. I can remember from 3 years old in 1947 living in Trinidad up to about 1968 and then there is a hole until the middle 1970's. People will say to me "remember this?". and half the time I have to ask my wife who that was and did it really happen? My second son was born normal and healthy (my wife was 6 months pregnant when this happened and I was terrified for weeks that she would get this). It was a couple of months before I could get up and around, and a couple more before I could drive. Five months before I went back to work and that was REALLY HARD because it was an EXTREMELY HOT, HARD physical job. Took me about 3 years to get all my strength back. I tried to talk to the Army. They refused to talk to me. Wouldn't even bother to deny a leak. I talked to a couple of lawyers in the late 70's. They politely listened to my story and said there is no way to sue them, the Army will not release any information about Dugway. Period. Even after the Freedom of Information act the answer was the same. Twice I went out to Dugway and tried to get in to talk to them. Try that sometime when you feel like getting arrested. In 10 minutes flat they had the Tooele County Sheriff and the Utah Highway Patrol at the Dugway gate and it's miles from nowhere. And "it's either leave now or go to jail". They take their security about getting in REAL SERIOUS, but stuff can leak out and it's suddenly not so serious. As in, It didn't happen, can't ever remember hearing about a problem like that. Strange that only I got it? you bet. Would have loved for about 50 people to have suddenly had the same symptoms but about 48 would have died from it, so I'm glad they didn't get it. But I was down wind and outside that night. And it really bothers me that the hours that they were interested in narrowed down so nicely. " between midnight and 2:30am?" . And they were so certain of what would NOT work in the way of drug therapy and treatments. Do I trust your Army Lt. Col.? no and FUCK NO!!! you were brave even being in the same room with the lying bastard, because he would rather kill you than look at you for this story, and you better believe he wants to! You either got him kicked off the next promotion list for Bird Col. or moved him up it. But either way it was not good for his career. Good work and Good luck and if you ever get into the Dugway Records room and can get the log book for July 69'. PLEASE, give me a call. 304-822-3468. Mike Carlyle. pob 438 Springfield, WV. about as far from Dugway as I can get.

-- micheal s carlyle (mikecarlyle@citlink.net), July 05, 2002.

Just found your site yesterday. I found the Army spraying story very Interesting. You should be very vocal with your complaints, though it will get you on a list somewhere. 27 years ago,1968, I lived in Salt Lake City, Utah, acutually I lived there until 3 years ago, so I obviously didn't even learn from my own experience. I worked in a Silver and Gold refinery on the shores of the Great Salt Lake. 30 miles due north of Dugway, also due downwind the majority of the year. I was 25 years old and the absolute picture of health. I worked pretty much straight graveyard shift at the refinery and had a day job as a mechanic. I lived in Provo, Utah about 60 miles south from work. I got off graveyard one morning, as near as I can remember it was about July 25. I drove to Provo not feeling well and went home rather than to the shop to work. As soon as I got home I started to vomit and had diarrhea. I got sicker as the morning progressed and by 10am was violently vomiting non-stop and began to feel paralysis. I was laying on the bathroom floor and couldn't get up, couldn't even move my hands and arms. A neighbor helped my wife drag me to the car and we went to the doctors office. After about 10 minutes at the doctors, he insisted I leave the office ( his brother was the towns leading OBGYN, my wife's too. She was 6 months pregnant). He called ahead to the Utah Valley Hospital and when I arrived they put me in isolation, fearing initially that I had Spinal Meningitis. I continued to vomit and shit uncontrollably, for 10 days. I ran a fever of 108 degrees for 7 or 8 days and then it gradually began to subside. I was negative for Meningitis from 3 spinal tapes and no "known" bacteria or virus strains were identified. I was immersed in ice 3 times for and hour each time, which would drop the temperature 2 degrees,to 106,while in the ice. On about day 4 or 5 two uniformed Army doctors walked into my room and began to question me and asked if they could examine me. Where did I live? Had I been out by Dugway lately ? (yes, I had driven that route to work as a diversion one night even though it was 10 miles further). What had I been eating? Where did I work? ( Kennecott Silver Refinery, eyes go up). And just where exactly is that? (told them where). I asked them why they were interested in me cause I'm in a hospital that's probably 50 miles from the nearest Army base. They said they always monitored the teletype messages to the Disease Control Center in Atlanta and that I was hot news on the wire right now. I asked again where they worked and they would not say. My doctor walked in about here and asked who they were and why they had not contacted him if they wanted to examine me. They apologized and asked what tests had been done recently that were not communicated to the CDC. Told me they sure hoped I got better and left. They were back the next day and asked to draw blood and get samples of all bodily fluids. I again asked them where they were stationed and after refusing to allow any more of an examination if they didn't tell me, they admitted what I had already guessed, they were from Dugway. They wanted to know if I had been rabbit hunting out by Dugway? (No, not since you kill sheep and are real slow to admit it, I don't hunt rabbits out that way anymore). What kind of work do I do at the Refinery? ( make silver, gold. platinum, palladium, and selenium). Do you ever work out side at night. (sometimes, depending on the job you rerate to). Lots of poking and palpitating going on as they question. Liver, stomach, bowel ect. pretty thorough exam. My doctor is watching and not real happy. Finally, one of the doctors takes his partner aside for a minute and the have a whisper conversation and I ask my doctor if he thinks we have a little Dugway leak going here. "Real possible" he says. The Army doctors step back over and ask if I had worked outside at night in the last week. (yes) . They look at each other a moment and finally one says "Were you working outside the night of the 24th, between midnight and 2:30am?" (Yes, I was) How are you sure, you obviously have a high grade fever here and why are you so sure? ("Because it was the last night I worked and I was the Fume Control Operator that night and it pays about $1 an hour more than my regular job and I remember those kind of things"). I asked him point blank if they had had a leak at Dugway and if they were going to help me? They just looked at me and said, " There is nothing that can be done for what you have". I asked again if they had a leak? They said, "we have to go now, good luck" and turned around and walked out. My doctor followed them down the hall to the elevator questioning them, I could hear him clear down the hall. Dr. Craig Clark was not the quiet type and he was about half pissed. He came back and said all they would say was, " there is nothing you can give him for this, discontinue all drug therapy and pray. The fact that he has made it this long is a miracle and a good sign, he may make it". Well, I did make it. I went from 155 lbs. to 95 lbs. I puked up my entire stomach lining and couldn't eat normal for about 6 months. I had seizures for a while and still have occasional monthly "flashbacks" to this day. I have a strange memory. I can remember from 3 years old in 1947 living in Trinidad up to about 1968 and then there is a hole until the middle 1970's. People will say to me "remember this?". and half the time I have to ask my wife who that was and did it really happen? My second son was born normal and healthy (my wife was 6 months pregnant when this happened and I was terrified for weeks that she would get this). It was a couple of months before I could get up and around, and a couple more before I could drive. Five months before I went back to work and that was REALLY HARD because it was an EXTREMELY HOT, HARD physical job. Took me about 3 years to get all my strength back. I tried to talk to the Army. They refused to talk to me. Wouldn't even bother to deny a leak. I talked to a couple of lawyers in the late 70's. They politely listened to my story and said there is no way to sue them, the Army will not release any information about Dugway. Period. Even after the Freedom of Information act the answer was the same. Twice I went out to Dugway and tried to get in to talk to them. Try that sometime when you feel like getting arrested. In 10 minutes flat they had the Tooele County Sheriff and the Utah Highway Patrol at the Dugway gate and it's miles from nowhere. And "it's either leave now or go to jail". They take their security about getting in REAL SERIOUS, but stuff can leak out and it's suddenly not so serious. As in, It didn't happen, can't ever remember hearing about a problem like that. Strange that only I got it? you bet. Would have loved for about 50 people to have suddenly had the same symptoms but about 48 would have died from it, so I'm glad they didn't get it. But I was down wind and outside that night. And it really bothers me that the hours that they were interested in narrowed down so nicely. " between midnight and 2:30am?" . And they were so certain of what would NOT work in the way of drug therapy and treatments. Do I trust your Army? no and FUCK NO!!!(sorry) Good work and Good luck and if you ever get into the Dugway Records room and can get the log book for July 68'. PLEASE, give me a call. 304-822-3468. Mike Carlyle. pob 438 Springfield, WV. about as far from Dugway as I can get. But guess what? It does not matter where you are...they will test anything they want, wherever they want and when ever they want and not bother to tell you anything until more than 20 people die simultaneously in a 10 mile circle.

-- micheal s carlyle (mikecarlyle@citlink.net), July 05, 2002.

Answer))ISLAM IN THE ARMED FORCES, SATIN DEALING HIS FINAL BLOW THE JEWS PROTECTOR IS HERE AND ON THE JOB.FINAL WORDS.

THE PROTECTOR IS OF MIGHTY POWER, UNLIKE MAN HE HOLDS THE POWER OF,,( GA OAA DA )GOD THE FATHER.

THE HOLY GHOST IS THE MIGHTY BOMB THE PROTECTOR WILL USE TO INSURE THE SAFTY OF GODS CHOOSEN PEOPLE.

E-LI-JA THE PROPHET IS HERE AND HE BRINGS THE POWER OF THE SON WITH WITH HIM.

AMERICA AMERICA GOD BLESS AMERICA

-- Mootmite (MOOTMITE @MOOTMITE.COM), September 20, 2002.


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