When did the DMV get rights to go armed?

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Hi Ya'll

When did the DMV get rights to go armed? I know that they requested the same ticket writing privlege of a state trooper. (I say they shouldn't be able to stop 4-wheelers) I've recently noticed that our NC DMV carries big guns along with a snotty attitude. I have heard (have not yet verified) that the DMV does not have the same gun practice requirements that regular cops do.

It looks like NC has a 5 layer law enforcement pact. (City, State, Rural, DMV, Federal) HOWEVER the Feds and the DMV seems to have "just taken' AUTHORITY and power.

Maybe someone here knows for sure. What happened and when???

-- Kenneth in N.C. (wizardsplace13@hotmail.com), April 16, 2001


When did the DMV get permission to issue tickets to any but 18-wheelers??? Interesting. I'll have to see what's up out here, too... Can't help you out on that one, sorry.

-- Sue Diederich (willow666@rocketmail.com), April 16, 2001.

Ken, have you lived there your whole life? In Texas there used to be State Troopers and that merged with the DPS which was the licensing section. I don't know all that much about it. But are you saying that when you go in to get your license renewed the little lady behind the counter with the stamps is packing a 45?

-- Doreen (bisquit@here.com), April 16, 2001.

Yes Doreen that (used to be) sweet lady is packing a 15 shot glock 9 m/m. I feel more secure knowing that desk jockies and DMV (untrained) flunkies are better armed than I am (said in bad humor, sad the state of affairs in NC)

Hey lets start our own ticket writing service. Yeah get the locale pd to give us all "country" looking cars and pickups. We'll police them. (eerrh that is direct them to the best salvage yards, yard sales) Ok so we wouldn't be giving out many tickets. Who cares those DMV guys make $25,000+ year. :o)

I could live on $25K per year. (big grin and rubbing of hands)

-- Kenneth in N.C. (wizardsplace13@hotmail.com), April 17, 2001.

Ken, I can't speak for N.C. coming from Pa. but I can say that the US forest service now has their own sniper teams and swat teams.Same goes for just about any federal agency that you can name.BLM,FEMA,Army Corps of Engineers,etc ad nauseum.I see them train at Fort Indiantown Gap often.Occasionaly you will see the black helicopters that don't exist at the heliport.My guess is the states just want to get in on the act play like the big boys.For awhile you could take a police car to the gap and they would fill the trunk with M16s ammo and kevlar for the asking on a police letter head.What a lot of folks don't know is the crime bill of '94 exempted police from NFA weapons restrictions.If you buy or are issued a machine gun as a cop you get to keep it when you quit or retire.You just can't sell it.So any agency that can by any stretch can say they are in law enforcement are getting in line for the goodies and the guns.

-- greg (gsmith@tricountyi.net), April 19, 2001.

Ken, I just found out the DMV ladies here are packing as well. Yet they have signs on the door saying that firearms aren't allowed....hmm? Lawsuit? Not my style. I believe Greg is right.

Also, I think it only helps to foster the "thin blue line" us against them mentality. Gotta run!...but not from a cop, that gives them the right to shoot you:)

-- Doreen (bisquit@here.com), April 20, 2001.

I've been pondering the title of this post and I understand what Ken is asking and saying but I think the it should read "When did the DMV get the AUTHORIZATION to go armed?" Rather than where did they get the right.They have the same right as anyone else in this country to be armed.And to be armed pretty much any where they damn well please.Either the second amendment applies to every one equally or it is the joke that it has become.Me I don't have a problem with DMV,Meter maids,the school hall monitor,etc being armed.What I have a problem with and I think it is the same problem that Ken and Doreen has...Is the concept that these petty bureaucrats should be exempted from the same onerous laws and regulations that we little peons must live with.I get pretty pissed off when more and more public buildings are posting NO FIREARMS signs where I need to do business.What I have been doing is announce that I am armed and can someone please direct me to the security lockers that are required by law in public buildings.That generally shakes things up a little.They want the restrictions but they don't want to comply with the statute in it's entirety.The question for me at this point is not whether every Barney Fife deputy should have a submachine gun to patrol Mayberry with but why must I as a peaceable citizen jump through hoops,pay outrageous taxes,pay outrageous prices because of a limited supply of "legal" weapons for "civilians" and forever be under the scrutiny of a group of scumbags and thugs like the BATF when these "officials" are exempted from these same regulations?And these "officials are exempt not only during their tenure in their "official" job but for life! If you read case law regarding the second amendment you will find that the only weapons that the courts say have any protection are MILITARY type arms.Their test is "Is it suitable to be used by the militia?" ie of military value.In 1776 that was a musket today it is an M16 or equivalent. ........;the right of the PEOPLE to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.That is not a collective right to be exercised by a select few on the behalf of the rest of the collective but rather an individual right belonging to all individuals.Boy this is becoming a little twisted so I'll stop.I think you all will get my point though.It isn't that these folks are now armed when once they were not but rather why are we being disarmed?

-- greg (gsmith@tricountyi.net), April 20, 2001.

It's really why we are being disarmed, not why are we being disarmed. It is interesting to note that it came out as the "right" of the DMV, though. This conditioning is deeper than most would think at a glance.

Take the hate crime legislation. Now what in the world does it really mean? What is a love crime? Giving someone who is being forcefully kept alive the dose that allows them to go on, might be a love crime. Other than that I can't think of anything. All crimes are based in hate. I hate that you have something I don't so I want to take it from you...be it life, property, or freedom or what have you. We don't need hate crime legislation, as that already is covered under "crime". Auuggh. However, now if you "hold these truths to be self evident" you are espousing hatred according to popular opinion. Eegads.

Sorry I got to rambling. This could snowball so I'll cut it short!

-- Doreen (bisquit@here.com), April 20, 2001.

If this might be a heated or contentious subject perhaps it can be deleted? >;)

-- greg (gsmith@tricountyi.net), April 22, 2001.

Yaw are a bunch of Idiots. NC has drivers license examiners, they do not carry guns, the only ones who carry are the Enforcement section, They have been carrying guns since 1921 and was the first state law enforcement agency, they issue tickets to cars and trucks, mainly big trucks, they specialize in Commercial motor vehicles, since the state patrol can't touch a truck like DMV enforcment can. Those guys have more highway jurisdiction than anyone out their. Know the facts before you post a message, especially not knowing a Damn thing about NC government. Kenneth, you must be a yankee!!!!!

-- larry (triton17@netscape.net), June 08, 2001.

I agree, larry, That guy kenneth is ignorant to the fact, My father-in law is a retired DMV Enforcement officer, they have more power than anyone on the highway, especially on big trucks. They have to know the law up and down, and they are trained very well, It seem like my father-in-law was always in schools, I would not call them flunkies Ken!!! I know they always get calls from other departments when they are not sure about a violation. Ken , get a life!!!!!

-- david (daivid@netscape.com), June 09, 2001.

Larry & David Ye are both WRONG. 1st off I'm from the South. 2nd while your dad may have been ok He most certainly is not in the majority. Speaking from personal experience and based on views expressed by 70% of the Owner-Operator Association. It would be different if the DMV used courtesy instead of snotty quips and bad attitudes. (I said 70% So that leaves your buddies for you to consider in the other 30%) The BS started about 4 years ago at least here in NC. From what I've read Georgia has the least complaints.

-- Kenneth in N.C. (wizardsplace13@hotmail.com), June 10, 2001.

Kenneth, about 4 years ago, I did not understand that one, I know the DMV Enforcement started enforcing more federal laws about that time, I don't know if that what you had meant?? And they also hired alot more officers.. I know their are some out there with bad attitudes, but now days that is every where.. My father in law is a good fella, I asked him about the gun deal, he said they have always totted, and carry M-14's in the trunk, they are state law officers, they just have a diffrent job than others.

-- david (david@netcape.com), June 10, 2001.

Kenneth, about 4 years ago, I did not understand that one, I know the DMV Enforcement started enforcing more federal laws about that time, I don't know if that what you had meant?? And they also hired alot more officers.. I know their are some out there with bad attitudes, but now days that is every where.. My father in law is a good fella, I asked him about the gun deal, he said they have always totted, and carry M-14's in the trunk, they are state law officers, they just have a diffrent job than others.

David if you've read most of my post you know that I have nothing personally against "GOOD" cops. I just get bent out of shape over the "BAD" ones.

-- Kenneth in N.C. (wizardsplace13@hotmail.com), June 11, 2001.

I have been driving 27 years and I will tell you that the DMV does have the crappy attitude towards trucks and think they are gods.My opnion is I would give you five cents for any cop they are all crooked if you get down to it , just let one of their brother officers get in trouble and theyd lie through their teeth for them,or whatever it takes to cover their butts. The whole thing in a nut shell is the governments will take us over before its over with and whoever cant see it is blind.Rights of all of us are slipping away fast and no one seems to care.

-- Don in N.C. (sailboat2323@hotmail.com), November 21, 2001.

dmv enforcement has always carried guns,we go to more schools for trining than any other state agency. dmv is the oldest law enforcement agency in the state. within the last 5-7 years the enforcement of federal laws increased and dmv became more visible. if you check General Statute 20-49 you will see this were the authority is given to the enforcement section. Most people see dmv and they think about getting there drivers lis. that isn't us. we have federal authorty, while our 1st concern is commercial truck enforcement we can stop 4 wheeler just like any other law enforcement officer ( that is because we are enforcement officers) as far as training, i came from a sheriff's dept and am cert to teach in the school for training law enforcemnt officers. dmv is like any other agency you may have someone that is a rough around the edge, but i always treat someone the way i want to be treated

-- ron starling (rstar52@hotmail.com), April 13, 2002.

North Carolina DMV Enforcement is not the same as the drivers license office employees. Those are civilian employees and do not carry weapons. They, unlike DMV officers do not have arrest authority. DMV is the oldest law enforcement agency in the state, with full authority to enforce any law.

-- (NCDMV1@aol.com), August 04, 2002.

correction to my last. DMV is the oldest STATE law enforcement agency in NC.

-- (NCDMV1@AOL.COM), August 05, 2002.

I work in the Training, Evaluation and CDL office in Raleigh, NC. The DMV Officer you saw was an enforcement officer. These Officers have been trained at the Salemburg Justice academy, Fayetteville Police Academy just as police officers have. They have the same certification as law officers and many have been with the police and enforcment organizatons in the past. Anyone holding these certifications can carry a handgun in their job discription. The only place you would see a "Regular" DMV Officer is in a DMV Office, anyone in a DMV vehicle is an enforcement officer. If anyone has any questions you can call the NC DMV @ 919-715-7000 and askto spaek witrh an enforcement officer.

-- Sam Blue (soblue@dot.state.nc.us), December 10, 2002.

Wish I had seen this before. Even though no one probably cares any more here is what I know. DMV Enforcement has been known by so many names it has always suffered from identity crisis and loyalty even among its employees. The "dept" was started in 1921, to counter the new crime of auto theft. The first "Inspectors" had to ride trains to get to areas where auto thefts were occuring. There was a history written that I once had a copy of that listed names of the first officers, wish I could find it. As usual, the history of the "dept." was not kept and recorded, loyalty and pride in the dept. was always pretty rare, as jobs were extremely political from the beginning. Weight enforcement really started around 1951-52 when the Feds. insisted on it due to the highway money going into all the states.Autority was given under NC GS 183.9-10 to establish stations and later 20-49 gave law enforcement power to the Highway Patrol and officers designated by the Commissioner of Motor Vehicles. The HP was under DMV then. Not many would work under the conditions those first oficers suffered. The first portable scales weighed over 85 lbs. each and the men worked in extreme weather conditions. The pay was low and the work was very hard. Supervisors were usually political appointees. When permenant stations were established on Interstate highways, they stood outside with no protection from the weather (the first "booths" outside for officers came along in 1973 thanks to the election of Rep. Gov. Holshauser). The "rule" before was officers stood outside until the temp. went below 22 degrees, not "wind chill", 22 DEGREES. Weapons were not issued to every officer until about 1970, but there was one weapon in the charge of the shift supervisor, passed on to the next shift at each change. Training was on the job only until the establishment of Criminal Justice Standards and Training, about 1974, requiring a minimum amount of training for all law enforcement officers of 160 hrs. But the officers on weight enforcement were constantly learning numerous regs. and laws from all states, license plates, weights allowed, etc. Constant changes in NC law required manuals and bulletins almost daily to keep up. It was a well known saying that to make a Highway Patrolman, you take a weigh man and knock his brains out. The top job of "Inspector" (auto theft investigator) was rarely obtainable by weight officers. Mostly these were political and handed out to former Highway Patrol troopers. That meant that many if not most promotions came from Inspector ranks, so top supervisors usually had little or no weight enforcement experience. And every change in State gov. meant new appointees who had their own ideas of how to run weigh stations and DMV Enforcement. Several name changes came along on different whims, from License and Safety, License and Theft, Enforcement and Theft Bureau, License and Theft and Weight Enforcement, Enforcement Section, etc. Training went from zero to full blast and back to zero and in between and never was really well established. At each administration change petty differences in personalities affected the dept. from top to bottom. This seems to paint a nasty picture of DMV, but during this time honest, hardworking people were doing a good job under adverse and at times frustating conditions, with low pay and miserable working conditions and equipment, always hoping that somehow things would get better. The first cars issued were old used up HP cars, with slick tires most of the time, no AC, obsolete radios, real rattle traps. The first weapons issued to regular officers were .38 "Chief Specials". You didn't have to qualify with it, just put it on and go to work. When 4 in. S&W .38s were issued, they were cast off HP guns that hadn't been cleaned in years, used for training I think. HP had changed to .357s. So DMV got the junk as usual. From the 70s thru 80s the dept. was up and down, but many good things happened. Motor Carrier Safety authority came to the dept. about 1980 from the State Utilities Comm. Until then practically nothing was being done. License plate and driver license revocations that were handled by the HP was thrown back to DMV when HP changed to their own Dept. of Crime Control. The HP did practically nothing with revocations anyway. There were literally thousands of revocations just laying there. DMV established officers that performed revocation duties with a high degree of professionalism, thou seriously underpaid. The adm. did this to prevent weight officers from taking this duty. They did such a good job that these men were given weight duties in the late 1990s and now to my knowledge there is no one out there chasing people with revoked licenses or no insurance. Make you feel safe? The first year the dept. had Motor Carrier duty,large truck accidents went down drastically, around 30%.I can truthfully say that the Dept. fared better under Rep. adm. that under Dems. NC was recognised as a leader in vehicle weight enforcement and Motor Carrier safety. Weigh stations were collecting a lot of money in overweight fines and penalties due to the hard work and dedication of many officers. But the real value of the dept. was overlooked by most legislators and state officials. Highway safety and the tremendous savings due to highway damage prevention was forgotton. One idiot highway official even stated in a news article that the "weigh stations didn't even pay for themselves"! Did the Highway Patrol or any other agency "pay" for themselves? I submit that DMV more than "paid" for itself. But the pay was still below par, equipment and support was still lacking. Political patronage was still rampant. I remember when political "donations" were collected routinely, and there were conseqences if you didn't ante up. There are too many tales to tell, things you probably wouldn't believe anyway. Now, the dept. has come under Crime Control with the HP. Most former DMV officers I know are being treated miserably by the HP, no matter the BS you may hear from HP. I have great respect for the HP trooper and the job most of them do. I just know that DMV was miserably misused and abused, and never allowed to be what it was capable of. I saw an article where Gov. Easley stated that DMV was a "mess". Well, you and your former comrads made it Gov. Easley. I'm just afraid highway safety and highway conditions will suffer until the next drastic change comes about, when the public demands it. But what do I know, I'm just a dumbass former weigh man. This is just stuff off the top of my head. Like my hair, the memories are fading. I know a hell of a lot I'm not telling. And yes Kenneth, we had to qualify,but sometimes we didn't have enough money for ammunition for real quality training. Kenneth in NC, you don't know what you got til its gone.

-- Jim Turner (jlturner007@nc.rr.com), February 29, 2004.

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