This is too weird. I browse through a lot of forums on the net, and Countryside is the second major "alternative" forum this month that has split apart over issues of politics, censorship and religion. The other was Yourdon's Timebomb 2000 home over on EZ Board, which also spun off two new forums, one "kinder and gentler" and the other outspokenly Christian conservative. As I said over the "Freedom" forum, was there something in the water this month? Any comments on the negative synergy at work here are welcome. Was it deliberate provocation, you think, or just the natural evolution of an internet site?

And I'll add that, as with the situation here, as soon as the boards split apart, the fundamentalists calmed right down again.

-- Anonymous, April 20, 2001

Answers

I don't think this is negative I think it is positive. I can't begin to tell you how absolutely fantastic it feels to be able to write exactly what I think to a group of people who are open minded and enlightened. What is the alternative? Keep writing to a group where most are closed minded and unenlightened? No thanks I see and hear enough of them each and every day!

P.S. Jim, you have my undying gratitude for starting this forum.

-- Anonymous, April 20, 2001

Yeah, what Debra said! On this forum I can say what I believe, and if it isn't agreed with, it is at least respected. I sure hope it can stay that way.

I also believe there was some deliberate provocation from some of the 'fundies' on the Countryside forum. There's a certain mindset that isn't happy unless stridently condemming someone or something, whether religion, politics or whatever - tedious people.

-- Anonymous, April 20, 2001

I agree with Debra and Jorga. At least here, when I respond to or ask a question, I don't get a "patronizing" response from someone else. Folks have a right to listen to all responses, then form their own opinions as to what they will do or how they feel about certain subjects!!

-- Anonymous, April 20, 2001

The whole country, not just forums (fora?) is being split apart, as I see it. Someone(s) are very interested in either creating this schism, or in the results of it. Today on NPR (yeah, I do have a life away from the radio) there was a commentary on having Dr. Kenneth Cooper (the guy who made aerobic exercise popular) become Surgeon General. Associated with this scenario are proposals for tax breaks for people who keep their cholesterol levels down, weight (fat %) proportionate, etc. Imagine. The commentator said we are no longer the land of the poor and huddled masses....instead we are the land of the Social Darwinist experiment. What irony for those poor slobs who voted this administration in so they could get a "break." Only the fit and rich will get to survive. Too bad if your standard of living only lets you drink arsenic-tainted water and eat macaroni and cheese.

Religious dogma is the handmaiden to some of these political postures (and vice versa.) I find that so repulsive, but it's historical.

I say hang onto your skillset for critical thinking. This will become more and more important as we see divisions between haves and have nots, healthy and sick, and yes, those who can follow some kind of train of thought to a conclusion, and those who cannot.

In the meantime, try to set an example so you can be a good teacher.

I don't think this bodes well for the E Plurabus Unum fans...

-- Anonymous, April 20, 2001

I felt really sad when the split happened, partly because I had been so much involved in the "final conflict". I really have never been so confrontive before, and still wonder about it all. I have "lurked" on the freedom forum and am absolutely amazed at some of the hatred. I don't understand it. We have some huge problems in this country, but I don't believe hatred and guns are going to solve them. I have been so offended by the "fundy" label since I consider myself a fundimentalist Christian. What is really funny is that they don't consider me one. Until I came to the CS forum I thought a fundimentalist Christian was like me, none violent, follow Christ to the best of your ability. I have really lived in a sheltered world since we came onto our land and isolated. I have considered doing what quite a few of the Christians on the forum have done and stopped messing with the internet at all, just e-mail. But, I really enjoy getting to know new folks. My mailbox is full almost every day from people who are just lurkers over on CS and want to know stuff but are to shy to post. I think it is a neat thing if we can help new homesteaders in some way. Well, guess this got long. Cash, I saw you posted on the other forum also, I hope it was in the spirit of help and not in the spirit of hurt. If this forum were to get like what was going on on CS I know I would be far gone.

-- Anonymous, April 20, 2001

Ditto Debra, Jorja, and Marcia. There is respect here for whatever we say, even if you don't agree with someone else. My way isn't the only way.

Namaste, Judy

-- Anonymous, April 20, 2001

Sheepish and Diane I missed your posts when I posted, I so agree with both of you ladies too. This forum is like a refuge from the crazies and mean spirited folks out there. I am so grateful I was included in this forum.

Namaste, Judy

-- Anonymous, April 20, 2001

Sheepish said it. It seems there are those who'd rather split people apart and get them squabling over trivial issues or issues that are so murky as to be strictly personal, rather than seeing the big picture. The big picture is we're all in this together with the same existential needs and all living here on terra firma.

As I tried to point out on CS some time back its inevitable that we'll all see things at least somewhat differently and if its inevitable why not bow to it and learn to live with it? We may not agree with anothers opinion about this or that nor they with us but the fact remains its NECESSARY that we respect anothers right to believe what they will as long as we're allowed the same space.

What I marvel at tho is how united the conservative rhetoric is, but its really kinda laughable really when you think about it. You've got clowns like Rush Limbaugh scripting their thots for them, then they run around adopting the rhetoric and arguments for themselves, and those who disagree are the sheeple!

-- Anonymous, April 20, 2001

Everything above , right on. I've been thinking , in the interest of science to hook myself up to a blood pressure monitor and check it as a cruise between sidewalks and countryside. Bet I know what i'd find. When I log onto Beyond the Sidewalks I have faith (Faith = a wish that your heart makes) that I'll find some like minded folk and get my brain prodded in some fashion. Thanks again to Jim for starting this and all you other fine people. I'm especially glad to have some christians etc. in here because it reminds me of that namaste thing. 'I honor the place in you and the place in me where we are one'. or something like that. jz

-- Anonymous, April 20, 2001

btw, remember when TB2000 split into the uncensored and censored versions? Then Yourdon took the whole original thing to the EZboard (I lurked but only posted once...it got too complicated!) Doesn't surprize me that they split off...I think there are multiple iterations of the original TB2000 forum...some still right here on LUSENET.

Cash, I remember you from the olden days. You have been around for a while!

-- Anonymous, April 21, 2001

Hey, JZ, I don't have to hook myself up -- I have that little throbbing vein in the temple to tell me the answer . . . ;-)

Hi to you, Cash. If I remember correctly, you can be a fit for the philosophy of this board, so "play nice" and you'll be welcome indeed. Don't know if it's "something in the water" or Mercury gone retrograde again or what. I do know that I was about to quit CS due to that blood pressure monitor in my head. Now, I intend to keep on visiting, but I think I'll be staying away from the discussions designed to provoke.

Actually, this is not the first split from CS -- a bunch of the Christians have a board going, since about November I think. Perhaps CS will be able to return to being a homesteading forum instead of a slug-fest. Hope so.

-- Anonymous, April 21, 2001

Gosh no, I'm not trying to stir anything up! But I don't get around to Greenspun as often as I used to, and when I perused the active forum list there were two new additions. I hadn't seen anything on Countryside about a fracture, so I was some suprised to find out what was going on. The timing just really struck me, because TB2K went through the same thing at about the same time for almost exactly the same reasons. It was unusual enough that I had to ask what was going on, and I wonder if there are any overlapping personalities involved. Yeah, Sheepish, I been around for a while ;-) Even longer than you think, because I used to post, way back in the olden days, under a different handle at the original TB2K on Greenspun right after it first opened. I used a real e-mail addy then, but went to an anonymous handle when some y2k pollies put me on their spam-attack DOS list. I'm pretty sure I'm the last of the originals still wandering these parts. Maybe I should apply for Endangered Species status!

-- Anonymous, April 21, 2001

Well, stay away from Poole's Roost II, then, Cash. Lotsa old timers are still over there! I still lurk occasionally.

-- Anonymous, April 21, 2001

I'm an old veteran from the original TB2K forum, too. I found the forum about a year after Yourdon created it and hung around until it's demise - posting occasionally but for the most part just lurking. I lurked on and off at TB2K Uncensored and then checked in from time to time at Unk's Wild, Wild West but haven't been there for quite some time now. I did lurk a little at Poole's new forum too but was pretty much bored to tears.

BTW, Sheepish and Cash, do you remember INVAR? Definitely NOT my favorite character... :-/

-- Anonymous, April 21, 2001

Forgot to mention: Welcome, Cash.

I had thought about inviting you but I assumed that your email address was fake so didn't even try.

Glad you found your way here, though... :-)

-- Anonymous, April 21, 2001

Not sure. I think I remember INVAR. Mostly, if I remember anyone it was diETeR, or however it was printed! The person I remember MOST wasn't on Greenspun...it was Cory Hamasaki. Did they string him up? I think I read every single one of his newsletters. All my old "stuff" is on my old hard drive, may it rest in peace....

-- Anonymous, April 21, 2001

Cash: FYI, you didn't see anything about this forum on CS because it was initiated by e-mail invite with the thot that nothing would be said on CS to avoid an exodus and perhaps keep a kinder, gentler atmosphere here longer. Can't hardly keep it a secret I guess but no need to advertise.

Take care. john

-- Anonymous, April 21, 2001

Walking down memory lane here, are we? I remember INVAR, along with E. coli and that weird Uncle down in Florida. Sheepish, seems I remember him admitting to being dEiTeR at one point. Not sure if he was serious. Blue Himalaya went through several incarnations as well. Remember you too, for that matter.

Cory Hamasaki lives! although right now he's recovering from a particularly nasty bout of flu. There's an open WRP discussion site on EZ Board that he hosts. It's more or less taken the place of the Weather Report, which has come out more sporadically since rollover.

I browsed through Poole's II and Unk's after the last split, but found little of interest, the inevitable consequence, I guess, of reducio ad absurdum. Cave Man and I had some fun for a while proving cpr wrong on energy issues, but charlie gets old in a hurry.

Thanks for the welcome, folks. Can't guarantee I'll be around a lot, especially with spring finally springing and work to be done outside, but this looks like a good place with good people, so I'll be back.

-- Anonymous, April 22, 2001

Sheepish: Well, just be glad you don't remember INVAR. He was not very pleasant to those who disagreed with his philosopy on life. I remember one time, after a heated "debate" with him, he ended up accusing me of being a demon (INVAR is/was an ultra, ultra, ULTRA conservative Christian - makes John Ashcroft and Rush Limbaugh look like pikers). I've never considered myself to be a demon, but my wife sometimes thinks I'm a horny little devil! :^D

Cash: Unk was Dieter!?!?!?

LOL!

Well, I'll be... Makes sense though, I remember Unk as being pretty funny. And now that I think of it, the name Uncle Deedah sounds a LOT like the name Dieter.

I browsed through Poole's II and Unk's after the last split, but found little of interest, the inevitable consequence, I guess, of reducio ad absurdum. Cave Man and I had some fun for a while proving cpr wrong on energy issues, but charlie gets old in a hurry.

Yes, I don't miss CPR much. He does wear thin after a very short period of time.

Speaking of Cave Man, if you know how to get a hold of him give him an invite for me, please. I enjoyed seeing posts from both of you guys - you both would make a great addition to this forum. And I'll probably create an *energy issues* category for just those type of energy stories you mention.

BTW, I don't know if you're familiar with the RunningOnEmpty or Jay Hanson's Energyresources mailing lists - I had subscribed to them in the past - and enjoyed the discussions immensely - but had to ultimately drop them because of the high volume of email. If you're subscribed to either of them and come across any intersting info on energy issues please feel free to pass it along to the rest of us here. I would appreciate it.

-- Anonymous, April 22, 2001

Jim: I'm a member at RunningOnEmpty, EnergyResources, AlasBabylon, and Cory's dc-y2k-WRP, plus several other places, but I long ago switched from e-mail/digests to the browse option because of the high volumes. I can skim past a lot of stuff that way, rather than wade through 50 or 100 e-mails each day. I'll be happy to pass along interestying tidbits as I can.

As for Cave Man, he never revealed his true identity to me, altho I have some pretty firm suspicions. If I see him, I'll pass along the invitation.

Your mention of INVAR's demon invocation really rang a bell with me, because it was one of the accusations that cropped up in the waning days of TB2K. One of those coincidences that makes you go Hmmmmm.

In case anyone missed it, Yourdon's TB2K is folding for good as of today. The members are moving on to a long list of new forums. Chalk up another victory (?) for the agitators.

-- Anonymous, April 23, 2001

I found this site on the lusenet active board section, too.

Cory's listing is http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dc-y2k-WRP

I had a hard time dealing with the eazyboard posting, it's not as easy as greenspun's.

-- Anonymous, April 29, 2001

Thanks. When I get the energy, I'll check that site out.

btw (snort!) whatever happened to Gary North, speaking of old times? Did he flee the country or just retire on his gold investments? ( I hope he made more money than I did!!!!!Okay, make that: *lost* *less* money than I did!! Sometimes late at night when I listen to Art Bell's commercial about how to make money investing in gold, I nearly wake my husband up with my chuckling....LOLOLOL...) Still won't buy palladium b/c I got burned on that one. (shows you how dumb I am.)

Ah, but they were good times, sort of.

Guess I'm probably just talking to myself anyway....thanks again.

-- Anonymous, April 29, 2001

re: Gary North, I've heard he has a new site warning of the coming Great Depression II. He tried, about a year ago, to claim the End of Cheap Oil as his next cause, but none of the Hubbert Curve discussion groups would take him seriously. I think he still e-publishes his newsletter (Remnant Review??).

-- Anonymous, April 30, 2001

Yeah, I remember that RR. And GN and Howard Ruff used to hang together, I understand. He was another great doomer, albeit a bit more mainstream.

I still have a lot of hard copy printouts of Y2k articles and stuff. Great memorabilia....look for it on eBay in a few years....I think I'll make a New Year's Evil Tradition of reading some of it aloud at parties! Actually, all the practical stuff is in a notebook for a good reason....I may need it someday. Ya never know.....

-- Anonymous, April 30, 2001