I am a divorced Catholic that has been remarried... Can I still recieve communion?

-- Diana (lawrdi@capital.net), April 20, 2001

Answers

Questions:

Was your first husband Catholic? Were you married "in the Church"? Is your current husband Catholic and was this marriage "in the Chuch"?

-- john placette (johnplacette@yahoo.com), April 20, 2001.

A key question: ... Is your "first husband" alive?

(1) If he is no longer alive -- and assuming that your "current husband" was never previously married -- then you can celebrate the Sacrament of Penance immediately and seek to have your new marriage blessed by the Church. After (but not before) your new marriage has been blessed, you may receive Holy Communion. Your local Catholic parish's pastor would have to tell you how long it would take before the Church would bless your new marriage. I hope that it would not be long.

(2) But if your "first husband" is still alive, then you need immediately to speak to the pastor about your next step. As John P. indicates, you will be enmeshed in one of many variations of circumstances that will guide the priest's next action on your behalf, an action in the direction of a Decree of Nullity with respect to your "first marriage." I don't believe that there is any way that you could receive Reconciliation and Holy Communion immediately -- except if you and your "current husband" were to agree to live in a celibate manner, as if "brother and sister," until the entire situation is resolved.

Regardless of whether your "first husband" is alive or not, a further concern would be whether or not your "current husband" was ever previously married. You did not mention that.

God bless you.
John

-- J. F. Gecik (jgecik@desc.dla.mil), April 21, 2001.

I'm divorced and remarried to a Jewish woman. Neither time married in the church. I receive communion when I go to mass. What's the big deal. I'd guess Christ would want me to join in as he did all the apostles. The above answer makes my head swim.

-- chris coose (ccoose@maine.rr.com), May 31, 2001.

Jmj

Please don't worry about "the above answer," Chris. Worry instead about your own "irregular" situation. You need to get together with your pastor to discuss it as soon as possible. And now I have to hit you with some VERY "tough love."

As you describe things, you are (objectively speaking) in a state of mortal sin. You have twice attempted marriage, but without succeeding either time. Your past and current unions are invalid in the eyes of God. Each intimate act that you have engaged in has been a sin of adultery or fornication. You have compounded these grievous errors with perhaps countless sins of sacrilege, defiling the Body and Blood of Christ, which you are not permitted to receive while in the state of mortal sin.

But do not despair, Chris. Your pastor can help you to make your marital situation "regular," and he can hear the confession you so badly need to make.

I beg you to take heed of this warning from St. Paul:
1 Cor 11 -- Whoever, therefore, eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of profaning the body and blood of the Lord.

I will pray for you to have the courage to do what is hard, but right and necessary.
God bless you.
John

-- (jgecik@desc.dla.mil), May 31, 2001.

John--
Do you think you're getting through to Chris? My impression is, he'll laugh at you. He is acting like the pretty girls that came out on canoes in 19th century Hawaii, and boarded the English ships; giving their favors to the whole crew, and laughing all the while. It never did occur to their minds they were being used.

If Chris had a morality of any sort, he would see that the Mass is something sacred. Not only to you and me and Catholics; but to God. Chris is in here proudly exhibiting his amorality, and we should really save our breath. Just pray for him, and for those who come in contact with him.

-- eugene c. chavez (chavezec@pacbell.net), June 01, 2001.

I understand your concern, friend Eugene. I have sometimes had a similar reaction to folks like Chris C..
But what he said was so outrageous that it could not stand there without a rejoinder. Someone had to speak up, out of respect for the Holy Eucharist, for the sake of Chris's soul, and for the sake of future readers of the thread -- who may be in a similar irregular situation (or thinking about entering into one).
You asked if I "think I'm getting through to Chris." Well, I wish that I could get through, but I have not been dwelling on that. To paraphrase Mother Teresa, "It is not necessary to see that you have succeeded. It is only necessary to know that you have been faithful and have tried."

God bless you.
John

-- (jgecik@desc.dla.mil), June 01, 2001.

Laughing pretty girls in canoes and in Hawaiian waters. What a spectacular image! Please do not get me wrong here. I'd not be on this writing to be disrespectful to you guys. I appreciate your feedback. Yes sir, my relationship to the church is in fact very irregular but uncommon? I think not. As far as the nun's would judge me I've been in a state of mortal sin since I was six years old and once I found masturbation....... well. Despite the conflict that existed in my young catholic life I did manage to get the sacraments and serve at the altar. Since then I have made some mistakes and drifted very far from church but not my faith. I look back and know that I have lived in a state of incredible Grace. These days I am very close to God and the hair shirt has been disgarded for loose garments. I do not live in the fear that was handed to me by the teachers of the doctrine when I was a child. When I have sex with my Jewish wife I would never see it as a sin. If you think that I would ever look upon my three children as illigitimate you, my friends, are nuts. You can be sure that I have spent time in the company of priests and other clergy. I have made confession of all that I know and believe me boys, my life has depended on my honesty in this regard. So I can relieve you of the job of getting through to me. Difference between us may be vast. It may be that God has allowed me to see it from another view.

-- chris coose (ccoose@maine.rr.com), June 02, 2001.

Jmj

"Yes sir, my relationship to the church is in fact very irregular but uncommon? I think not." [C. Coose]
No, Chris, it is not your "relationship to the Church" that is irregular, but two other things:
(1) your marital (i.e., non-marital, cohabiting) status, and
(2) your scandalous and sacrilegious reception of Holy Communion. You defile the Lord every time you approach the altar, and I will not stand by silently while you blatantly defy God's prohibition against this.

"As far as the nun's would judge me I've been in a state of mortal sin since I was six years old, and once I found masturbation....... well." [C. C.]
This has nothing to do with the judgment of nuns, but everything to do with the Word of God (scripture and Apostolic Tradition) taught to you and me by the pope and bishops (the apostles' successors). If you reject that teaching, you cannot call yourself a Catholic.

"Since [childhood] I have made some mistakes and drifted very far from church but not my faith." [C.C.]
This is a self-contradictory statement, because drifting from the Catholic Church equals a loss of faith. And if you say that you are "very far from the Church," you must not partake of her Sacraments, which are signs of unity.

"I look back and know that I have lived in a state of incredible Grace." [C.C.]
Perhaps "grace" in the sense of "unmerited luck," but not in the sense of "sanctifying grace," which you must possess to enter into eternal life when you die.

"These days I am very close to God and the hair shirt has been disgarded for loose garments." [C.C.]
Contrary to your implication, no one here (or in the Church's leadership) tells anyone to wear hair shirts. A life of outright, self-excused sins does not equate to wearing "loose garments" but to wearing the shackles of slavery to satan.

"When I have sex with my Jewish wife I would never see it as a sin." [C. C.]
As stated earlier, she is not your wife -- since a Catholic is unable to marry outside the Church without his bishop's permission. And it does not matter whether you "never see it as a sin." I can't keep you from wearing blinders that mask the objective fact that it is a sin.

"If you think that I would ever look upon my three children as illigitimate you, my friends, are nuts." [C. C.]
Where do you come up with these things, Chris? No one said a word about your children's legitimacy. All children born from a "putative marriage" (one recognized by the state, even if not recognized by the Church) are legitimate. The Catholic Church does not label your children as illegitimate, nor would she deny them any privileges. Even if you were to seek and receive a Decree of Nullity some day, it would have no effect on your children's status.

"It may be that God has allowed me to see it from another view." [C.C.]
Yes, by giving you free will, God has allowed you to see things from satan's viewpoint, if that is the one you choose over the divine viewpoint.

St. Christopher, pray for us. St. James, pray for us.
God bless you.
John

-- (jgecik@desc.dla.mil), June 02, 2001.

John, Facts. I am Catholic. I am married to Lisa and I have been received communion from the priest with whom I confess to and I don't give fiddler's fart for what you represent. Exciting ain't it.

-- Chris Coose (ccoose@maine.rr.com), June 02, 2001.

P.S. The patron saint of travelers got sacked because he didn't fit the rules.

-- chris coose (ccoose@maine.rr.com), June 02, 2001.

This ''Catholic'' makes a lot od sense to himself. It matters not a fiddler's fart what God thinks, much less what anyone of us think.

Chris, go on with your life. You are in intimate communion with yourself-- a situation well-known to those who love masturbation. Self-love and self-abuse are sure to block out all other loves. You may love your wife and children, that's admirable. But Our Lord stated even the godless do that.

Your dismissal of the rules is just another symptom of spiritual poverty. Did you discard the ten commandments in the bargain? Is your ''mentor'' an unfrocked Catholic priest, or a renegade liberal priest? He is just as guilty then, of your own short-sightedness.

In short; that's really what your fault is-- short-sighted disregard for ''rules'', Church, conscience, and God's plans for you. What you can't see can't hurt you; so you don't give a fart. But one day soon, you'll be judged for your sins in the Divine presence. You won't have a fart to offer as an excuse. I'm praying for your return to the Catholic Church; and I invite the others here to make that their intention, too. God bless you and your fine wife and poor children. I hope she can raise them to be faithful Jews; that's the best they can hope for. Until you come to your senses. Ciao + + +

-- eugene c. chavez (chavezec@pacbell.net), June 02, 2001.

How many church rules have been changed just in my lifetime? How many church rules have been changed in the past 500 years. How many saints have been abandoned? Do you suggest that all is in order these days? Spare me please. The big 10 make sense to me and quite a few of the others do too. But there are many rules that apply as badly as they did when I was a little kid wondering what the hell it all meant. The Spanish Inquisitors could defend all their rules in their day just as well as some of the zealotry I find here.

-- chris coose (ccoose@maine.rr.com), June 02, 2001.

Jmj

Poor Chris C.! You simply don't know what you are talking about. You are in a deep abyss of ignorance, making it hard for us to have a conversation with you.

You wrote: "How many church rules have been changed just in my lifetime? How many church rules have been changed in the past 500 years."

We are speaking of never-changed/un-changeable, God-given doctrine -- not about human-written rules ("disciplines") that are subject to change.
Disciplines include such things as days of fast/abstinence, priestly celibacy, period of preparation for receiving sacraments, etc.. We are not counseling you about disciplines (the kinds of things that have changed in your lifetime) -- but about doctrines (and probably even dogmas) that you are choosing to reject, though you are not free to reject them! The fact that you are not permitted to receive Communion in your current marital status is not a discipline, but dogma based on the Pauline passage I quoted for you.

You also stated, "How many saints have been abandoned?"
Even here, you are not equipped with the facts. No saints were abandoned. The feasts of some saints whose lives did not have strong documentation were removed from the universal calendar of the Church. They were not "annihilated." There are parishes named after many of them around the world, and on certain days priests can celebrate Mass in honor of them. Here is a link to St. Christopher Catholic Church in Rocky River, Ohio.

Come on, Chris. Snap out of it. Grab a little humility and admit that you have a lot to learn. I know that it's going to hurt, but you will come away from it a much better man.

St. James, pray for us. Our Lady of Guadelupe, pray for us.
God bless you.
John

-- (jgecik@desc.dla.mil), June 02, 2001.

John, Isn't it interesting how little I know, (surely compared to the stuff you guys know) after 8 years of traditional 50's& 60's parochial, sisters of Notre Dame, education. You should see my hand writing. I am missing 20% of my hearing in my right ear because of physical abuse by sister Marie in the 4th grade. Those folks hammered us with tradition that made no sense. I've had the past 14 years to reasonably sort it out. You are right, all I know is what was taught up till the 7th grade and what I have shared with my priest and what he has shared with me. It has been quite a trip sorting out the spiritual, the dogmatic, the abusive, the mysterious and the emotional connections that I have with the church so I am here to learn and to run by you guys some of the business of the day that still makes no sense. When it comes to my spiritual survival I shall stick with the priest. After a day of this counseling I feel a bit like the confused kid, once again condemmed, I recall the unhappiness, I remember the itch of the hair shirt. Turns out I am not very interested to know what you know. I am interested in teachers who do not have sledge hammers in their bag of tricks, or who might box a child's ears, or use humiliation and fear to bring them to a very challenging way of living. This priest I know and my boy scout leader have been instrumental in saving my life. They walk as close to the path that Christ walked that I've known. These men are the reason that I am still a Catholic. I do not present the challenges to them that you get mired in. And for that I am very very thankful. Humbly, Chris

-- chris coose (ccoose@maine.rr.com), June 02, 2001.

Chris, I attended one year of Catholic school with the sisters of the Dominican order in 1948. That's pre-Vatican II. It was a strict enough school, but our faith was strengthened for us, not broken or stunted. I had moments of so-called abuse applied to me. What can a 9 yr-old boy do to defend himself?

But, even at that age, I had a clear realization of the good that they were doing for me. I wasn't docile, nor rebellious. I was taught above all to love God with all my heart. You got your ears boxed? Now, that's a pity! Many of our modern world's nuns have suffered mutilation, torture and death in countries all around us. All for love of Jesus Christ. Not only in Africa; close by, in Mexico and South America. In Spain and Germany and Poland especially. Give me a break! You speak of 20% of your hearing; and maybe you have reason. But where is your cause to complain. You were on the path of righteousness. In step with Our Lord Jesus Christ and His saints. Now, instead you're on the margins of the faith; willing to commit sacrilege with impugnity. Even if you wanted to say a perfect act of contrition at the moment of your death, how could you? You don't have the faith to do it. Why?

Because the sisters instilled that faith in you; but you are throwing it away.

-- eugene c. chavez (chavezec@pacbell.net), June 02, 2001.

---

-- eugene c.chavez (chavezec@pacbell.net), June 02, 2001.

Chris- If the priest you know loves and helps you, then thank God for him. You have been blessed. He is with you for a reason. You have time enough to sort things out without self-recrimination and undue guilt. God loves you, he is giving you people who help you, I'm sure he knows what he is doing. All you need to do is listen. You sound like you will. These things take time, sometimes lots of it. Well, that's just the way it is. God bless you. You can trust God, certainly he trusts you.

XOXOJane

-- jane (janeulrich80@hotmail.com), June 02, 2001.

It is very arrogant of you to measure my Faith. You know so very little of me. You know nothing of the tests that God has presented me with. Eugene, you are not qualified to hold my Faith gauge. None of you are. To think to measure or judge your relationship with God makes me shudder. Such pride, such arrogance, such disgrace.

-- chris coose (ccoose@maine.rr.com), June 02, 2001.

Jmj

Hi, Jane.
I think that, basically, your message to Chris C is a very good one -- "in theory."
But it has one part that worries me "in practice."
You wrote, "If the priest you know loves and helps you, then thank God for him."

The problem is that I have been getting "vibes" that Chris's priest is not an orthodox Catholic pastor -- but rather a dissenter. In other words, I sense that he is telling Chris what Chris wants to hear, rather than what he needs to hear [i.e., what we are trying to tell him]. And so, he could appear to Chris to be a "priest [who] loves and helps" him -- when in reality he may be a priest who practices "false compassion" and ends up hurting, not helping, Chris. Unfortunately, there are many such priests in our nation, especially (but certainly not exclusively) in New England, where Chris lives.

Chris said that he has been married twice outside the Church, but that he receives Holy Communion. Any priest who permits this, without helping Chris straighten out his situation is not truly someone who "loves and helps" his flock. There is also a hint [I forget on which thread] that Chris's priest-friend agrees with him about the acceptability of homosexual activity. If these kinds of things are what is really going on here, then Chris is being ill-served and needs to place himself under the guidance of an orthodox Catholic priest instead.

God bless you.
John
PS: Chris wrote that he had "8 years of traditional 50's& 60's parochial, sisters of Notre Dame, education." An amazing coincidence! I had a traditional "K-to-8" education in the '50s and '60s under the Sisters of Notre Dame. So I guess that this can't be used by Chris as an excuse for his continuing rebellion.

-- (jgecik@desc.dla.mil), June 03, 2001.

Well. John, the ''rebel'' is annoyed at me for ''guageing his faith''. And why? because I'm defending those sisters he claims were uncharitable toward him. Fat lot of faith; dumping on the sisters and the Catholic school! Chris is content to call us arrogant and judgmental and a disgrace. But he doesn't feel it's arrogant to say he doesn't give a fiddler's fart. That, with his attitude toward the sacrament of the Eucharist, he doesn't think is arrogant! Good grief!

-- eugene c. chavez (chavezec@pacbell.net), June 03, 2001.

John,

I am rather surprised. Taking pot shots based on vibes and my rantings. Sounds like maybe we did attend different schools together. Instead of making judgement on somebody whose name you do not even know, you might be saying prayers of thanks that he has been able to hold this sheep near the flock. Ah, but from what I've discovered in this place, your skeptisism is not at all surprising.

Like I related to Eugene, you are about as ignorant about my spiritual path as I am ignorant of your rules, therefore, I won't let you hold the gauge.

The assumptions that you have made against this very pious man with the little information that I have shared about myself is sinful. I think, naturally you'll know, it falls under the one about stealing. Whether you are right or wrong about him does not matter. I can tell you that it wreaks of disrespect, as most everyone that I know calls him Father. What is that #3?

I've found what I was looking for here. You have helped me a great deal. The entertainment value is about an 8, so I will probably return.

Thanks and great love to you all.

Chris

-- chris coose (ccoose@maine.rr.com), June 03, 2001.

Frankly I don't care if a priest is a "dissenter" or even a drunk passed out by the side of the road. He is still a priest and will be so forever and thereby deserves our absolute respect and love and gratitude. Let's not be Donatists here. That IS a heresy.

If we treated our priests with more compassion and love maybe we would have more of them, and maybe they would have the strength to follow Christ more closely too.

I say give Chris's priest every possible vote of confidence and trust and respect. After all even if he - or any other priest -is, in the worst case scenario, a fool or stupid or a drunk or even a "dissenter" (and who among us as individuals can claim to have full access to the truth?)) he can still do the work of the Holy Spirit. God can do anything he wants, thru whomever he wants. Christ called him and made him his priest. That's good enough for me. I just don't care about the rest.

That's all I know.

Jane

-- jane (Janeulrich80@hotmail.com), June 03, 2001.

John & Eugene,

It turns out that the doors to my Catholic grammar school were prematurely closed in 1968 due to scandalous abuse. Our parents turned blind eyes to the stories that we little ones would bring home but they could not turn deaf ears to the tape recordings that Paul Cunningham presented to them. This brilliant seventh grader captured a few of sister Ellen's weekly sex talks on tape.

I was a bit dissapointed that this was the straw that broke the camel's back. Her sex talks were the funniest and most welcome moments of the week.

You can be certain Eugene that these women instilled quite a bit more than Faith in us little kids.

You are correct John, it is no excuse. It is just what it is.

Let us all pray for the good Sisters.

Love,

Chris

-- chris coose (ccoose@maine.rr.com), June 04, 2001.

Jane,

Almost right on the money. Surely much closer than John's silly guesses. The priest I see and ministers to my case was a drunk. Of which, there are more of than sex offenders in the vocation. He's been sober a long time and has returned to his work more fit than you might imagine. He has heard a zillion 5th step (an AA disipline) confessions and has helped many men and women back to their spiritual feet.

He lives a tradition of forgiveness. As you might imagine, many of us have quite a bit of wreckage to clean up as John, Chris, Eugene and myself are glad to point out.

I am hesitant to travel much further down this road because the more information that I deliver to this forum the more I get stepped on and this guy that has showered me with the love that I needed while I couldn't love myself simply does not deserve their wrath.

I do appriciate your common sense and concern.

Love, Chris

-- chris coose (ccoose@maine.rr.com), June 04, 2001.

Dear Chris,
Your first words to the forum were confrontational. You could have entered in the milder spirit now showing at the end of this thread. This one and also the other thread into which you introduced the defiant comments about living in a city which recognises gay rights, so-called. But you communicated only a hard-nosed, give-not-a-fart, Church is for suckers --attitude. . . . Since then I have made some mistakes and drifted very far from church but not my faith. I look back and know that I have lived in a state of incredible Grace.

Oh, sure you have! The priest in question; he is aware you're separated from the Church by your sin of co-habitation, and yet absolves you and declares you in a state of grace. Well, I guess he ought to know. What does the Church know?

''. . . the more information that I deliver to this forum the more I get stepped on and this guy that has showered me with the love that I needed while I couldn't love myself simply does not deserve their wrath.

(Sure. He absolves you and you absolve him.)

In the above underscored words of your message, the entire focus is you. Not love for God, nor any striving for spiritual fulfillment, just narcissism. It isn't the Church's fault you left, Chris. The Church would have you participate freely in Jesus Christ's own Divine life. --Something called ''sanctifying grace''. But you want to live as a free agent. The Church must be seen as an ''insurmountable obstacle'', which God has removed for you.

We all have to offer you our sympathy and our prayers. No apologies. Just hope for your recovery of the faith. What you've so far embraced is a poor substitute, I'm afraid. I'll be praying for you, Chris.

P.S. I am NOT e-mailing anything private to you. Contact the Moderator and specify you refuse this message and others.

-- eugene c. chavez (chavezec@pacbell.net), June 04, 2001.

Dear Jane Ulrich,
I've no wish to contradict what you're saying out of charity and understanding. It's admirable of you, I know. I also believe the priest is worthy of our understanding.

"If we treated our priests with more compassion and love maybe we would have more of them, and maybe they would have the strength to follow Christ more closely too."

You protest a bit too much. Who has treated a priest without compassion, without love? I personally have immense respect for the good priests, and sympathy for many I wish were worthier of their calling. You can't pretend a lot of them do not push the envelope. The sad fact is, we all have known a priest that comes unprepared for priestly duties. I won't elaborate. I will state very strongly, even that kind of unworthy priest RARELY is treated with anything but love and respect.

When I say ''unworthy'' I don't insinuate we are free to shun him, or judge him in any way. Chances are, he himself would be his own worst critic. It takes all kinds. More to the point; a priest must still minister to the faithful as the Church has authorized him to do; not as a buddy. He may feel inclined to love the sinner with all his heart. But he has a duty to that sinner as well. To give him good counsel; not bad doctrine, or slipshod advice. I know that 99 and 99/100ths percent of all priests are working for God's greater glory, without the hope of earthly reward. The few others? I am still not worthy to judge them, either. But I know the differences, Jane! And so do you--

-- eugene c. chavez (chavezec@pacbell.net), June 04, 2001.

You know Eugene, I'm thinking what it might have been like if you'd been the one to greet at the door on my return. I've got to tell you brother, I was a lot sicker then than I am now. Scary thought ain't it? Yes sir, hope is very important on this road.

Love, Chris

-- chris coose (ccoose@maine.rr.com), June 04, 2001.

You know Chris, what you say about hope makes me think of my favorite passages in the New Testament, the woman caught in adultery, the Samaritan woman at the well, the scene where Christ so gently asks Peter 3 times if Peter loves him. Well I could go on and on. Including the time he came and spoke to me. The thing about Jesus is that he really loves the sinner, loves him or her madly and to the point of foolishness, enough to die. And he loves us like this before we ever have any thought of repentance, or grief. He doesn't ask us to be or do anything before he loves us. It's an amazing and wonderful thing. SOmething that changed and still changes the world and our hearts. So amazing. So yes you are absolutely right, hope hope and more hope. And we can trust him enough to have this hope, regardless of who and what we are right now. Or what wounds and pain we bring to him to heal. That's the whole deal in a nutshell. We all need to be courageous enough to do that. God bless you.

Love (and prayers), Jane

-- jane (janeulrich80@hotmail.com), June 04, 2001.

Chris, are you implying I'm judgmental of your immoral practices? Or is it just that you think I'm unfeeling? I am the uncle and godfather of a young man who hanged himself. His downfall was crack cocaine, and all the associated horrors. You think you're sick, because you're self-indulgent? You haven't scratched the surface.

I wasn't judgmental of my godson, and I remember him in my daily prayers and before the holy altar every mass day. I'm not the Ayatollah. I believe in mercy and divine forgiveness, because that's what Christ teaches. It's what the Catholic Church teaches. I believe sincerely it is found in the Catholic Church, much as you may disagree.

But it is relative to the sinner's repentance. The unrepentant sinner is only hurting himself. I've seemed ironical about your ''grace'', but not because I don't hope you'll receive grace. I just think you've confused grace from God with ''feeling good about yourself''. Maybe you are counting on God to just look the other way. --For little Chrissy's benefit. I hope he does that for me as well. I'm a sinner.

But I acknowledge I'm a sinner. The way back to God's grace is very clear to me. Confess my sins, repent, and sin no more. Is this some sort of rocket science you can't understand?

-- eugene c. chavez (chavezec@pacbell.net), June 04, 2001.

Jmj

Jane,
I am deeply hurt and disappointed that you found it necessary to criticize, and try to undo, the good advice I gave to Chris C about his pastor. I have just re-read what I said, and I do not withdraw a word of it.

I agree totally with you that we have to respect, love, thank, and even revere every priest because of the great calling he has from God, for the sacramental graces he has received in his ordination, for the sacrifices he has made, etc.. You wrongly made it seem that, just because I criticized certain wrongdoings of a specific priest, I have a general disrespect or lack of reverence for the priesthood. That was unfair of you.

Moreover, some of the things that you stated were very unwise. For example, you wrote: "Frankly I don't care if a priest is a 'dissenter' or even a drunk passed out by the side of the road." But we HAVE to care about these things. Such priests need help, spiritual, medical, or both. They ought not to be in parishes misleading the laity, especially from the pulpit or in the confessional.
You seem to have called me a Donatist heretic -- a most undeserved accusation. The Donatists claimed that the validity of a priest's sacraments depended on the quality of his moral character. I never said any such thing. I know that Chris's priest's sacraments are valid, but (being a dissenter) it appears that he may not be in the proper spiritual state to celebrate some of them (at least Reconciliation). I have heard that the pope has been very strong in the past decade on this, having sent a powerful document to guide all confessors -- a document that Chris's priest is apparently rejecting. When such things are going on, you and I do not have the right to turn our heads and look the other way under the guise of "treat[ing] our priests with more compassion and love."

You stated, "I say give Chris's priest every possible vote of confidence and trust and respect. After all even if he - or any other priest -is, in the worst case scenario, a fool or stupid or a drunk or even a 'dissenter' ... he can still do the work of the Holy Spirit."
Yes, he can still do some good work, but if he is doing evil works simultaneously, his flock is better off without his presence in the parish. In my opinion, a single mortal sin inspired by a priest far outweighs all the good works he may have done or inspired.

You closed by saying, "God can do anything he wants, thru whomever he wants. Christ called him and made him his priest. That's good enough for me. I just don't care about the rest."
Actually God cannot "do anything he wants, thru whomever he wants." He respects our free will, including each priest's free will to reject solid doctrine, misguide penitents, etc.. He does not force Chris's priest to do what is right. And that is why it is wrong to say that you "just don't care about the rest." We MUST care about it, because it adversely affects the journey of immortal souls.

St. James, pray for us.
God bless you.
John

-- (jgecik@desc.dla.mil), June 05, 2001.

Jane, as always, your words inspire. Your love of God, priests and the like is admirable.

Chris, I enjoy your wit. :)

-- jackiea (jackiea@hotmail.com), June 05, 2001.