I know, I know, it's not recommended anymore. But a friend is determined to do it this way (don't ask me why!!) and I'm trying to determine the time to process them. I've helped water bath can them before, but I wasn't the official timekeeper. I think it's 3 hours for quarts, but not sure. I have emphasized to her that it's no longer recommended to water bath can, and will remind her again. Any info would be appreciated.

-- Ladybug (sklukas@mail.state.tn.us), April 27, 2001

Answers

Why spend 3 hours doing something potentially dangerous, when you can spend 30 minutes getting the job done safely? Also, can't imagine what the texture of beans cooked 3 hours would be like. No thanks!

-- David C (fleece@eritter.net), April 27, 2001.

Does she want to endanger the lives of her family? I can't imagin why anyone would take this risk. Buy her a Ball Blue Book on canning or go to your state Extension office and get get some literature. Martha Matthews, Master Food Preserver, Washington State Uiversity

-- Martha J. Matthews (marthafromwa@webtv.com), April 27, 2001.

I agree; I don't know why she feels she should do it this way. I figured either afraid of the pressure canner or the old "granny did it this way and didn't die" excuse. Actually I'm glad I'm not finding the info so she'll have a good excuse not to be able to do it. And as for the extension service info.....LOVE those extension service websites!! :) I think I've got every state's bookmarked, not to mention USDA.

Oh, and David, the texture of the water bath canned is about the same as store-bought canned. They weren't mushy at all, at least the variety we fixed (white half-runner preferred; Kentucky Wonder if desperate!)

-- Ladybug (sklukas@mail.state.tn.us), April 27, 2001.

When you hear this kind of a question it is always fear. Fear of pressure cooking, which is exactly the same is water bath. Waterbath is boiling water with a loose fitting lid that can only reach 212 degrees no matter how much you boil it. Once anything is in a waterbath and everything is to the boiling point, makes no difference if you water bath it for 1 hour or 10. Pressure canning is boiling water with a tight/sealed lid which is the only way of raising the temperature of the water above 112 degrees, hence you kill bacteria and seal the jars, expelling the pressure from inside the jar, not letting bacteria live (no oxygen).

It is not safe to waterbath...I won't say anything here...but not much more than jam. Vicki

-- Vicki McGaugh TX (vickilonesomedoe@hotmail.com), April 27, 2001.

It is three hours of boiling time for green beans in the water bath method. The jars must remain covered throughout the process so a tea kettle of boiling water can be handy to keep the boiling constant.

-- diane (gardiacaprines@yahoo.com), April 27, 2001.

The only things safe to can by the water-bath method are fruits and veggies with high acid or sugar. Anything else needs to be pressure-canned!!!!

-- Marcia (HrMr@webtv.net), April 27, 2001.

About 25 years ago all recommendations on canning changed, and that was the time they dropped the water bath method for non acid items. I cornered our extension agent at the time, and she finally admitted that bacteria were more resistant than they used to be. And this was 25 years ago! Please be careful, as this is the conditions under which botulism grows--non-acid, no oxygen. Botulism is nearly always fatal. It isn't that stomach upset of salmonella. It affects the nerves. Before serving, she should boil the beans 10 minutes with the lid off the pan, to allow toxins to escape.

-- Cora-Vee Caswell (coravee@locl.net), April 28, 2001.

I have been canning (both pressure and water bath) for around 35 years. Worked with seafood a lot of those years. I would NEVER water bath green beans. I know of a case where a lady ate 1/4 tsp of green beans that were water processed, not pressure canned, and she was paralyzed for life. If the product is under-processed or at any point oxygen re-enters the product, and reseals, it can breed botulism. This can be a pinhole, bad rim, rubber seal etc. You can cook botulism tho, kill it, and eat the product. The food needs to be brought up to a certain temp and kept there for a period of time. (I don't know the exact temps, so I won't say here.) Your Extension service can give you those figures. Our seafood plants have done extensive research on this and are a good source of information. Their quality control officers are always willing to discuss it with you. I would expect if there is a commercial canning company in your area they would gladly give you the same information. They like the public to be informed of the safety of their products. I would be concerned about your friend's judgment in this case. :( tang in Alaska

-- tang (tang@mtaonline.net), May 01, 2001.

Of course, of course, EVERYONE knows that the government says it is unsafe to water-bath green beans. It is also unsafe to eat any pressured home-canned greenbeans unless you boil them for 15 minutes before tasting.

I was raised on water-bathed green beans, and none of us got sick once from it. If you want to do things the old way, you are free in this country to do it. (They havent passed a law on it, as far as I know!) If however, you believe everything the Government tells you, bless your heart.

-- daffodyllady (daffodyllady@yahoo.com), May 04, 2001.

I am the last one who would change from the tried and true because some home economics major decided to change canning protocols. Like canning meat raw, done it for years, and just because they want you to change to only cooked meat canning, I will continue to do it that way. Now, on the green beans :) my pressure canner (the old kind without the gaskets, looks like something with Frankenstein bolts) came with an old l960's cook book for canning, freezing and water bathing. Even tells you how to dress a rabbit and can it. And....even my grandmothers old cookbook doesn't recommend water bath canning of low acid fruits and vegetables. Promise I will quit now :) Vicki

-- Vicki McGaugh TX (vickilonesomedoe@hotmail.com), May 04, 2001.

Personally I think pressure canned green beans taste good. It is one of our favorites, I prefer it to freezed beans. I can't imagine trying to water bath vegs. I am nervous waterbathing pickled products (I do of course, but always smell and check out before serving). What I wonder about is the extension office now say you much pressure can tomatoes, I used to water batch them for an hour and a half. I guess it is because no one really know the amount of acid in the new varities of tomatoes. I didn't like the texture last year doing this. Are you guys waterbathing tomatoes or pressure canning?

-- Debbie (bwolcott@cwis.net), May 04, 2001.

My understanding is that its a good idea to be familiar with the variety of tomato you're using; pretty much all old fashioned kinds are high in acid; some of the new ones are not safe to can at all. What I have been doing the past few years, even though I only grow heirloom varieties, is add a tablespoon or so of vinegar.

-- Earthmama (earthmama48@yahoo.com), May 04, 2001.

Debbie, I'd never heard that some varieties of tomatoes need to be pressure-canned. I've always done the water bath thing. Guess I'd better check out which varieties I use from now on!

-- Marcia (HrMr@webtv.net), May 04, 2001.

My mother never had a pressure canner and none of us ever got sick. She still uses the water bath method. Green beans are 3 hours. I have a Kerr canning book with all water bath times in it if you would like to know how long to cook something else let me know.

-- Lisa (ldleonard@pennswoods.net), July 23, 2001.

There's been plenty (most, in fact) of people who ate boiling water bathed canned green beans and never become ill from them. Heck, *I've* eaten them and never become sick.

At one and the same time though most people who play the lottery will never hit the big jackpot either and for the same reason. The odds that you'll either hit the jackpot or be poisoned by botulism are very, very low. Should wild chance act in your favor in the lottery you'll be rich. Should it do the same for the green beans you'll be lucky if all you are is dead. If you're unlucky you'll spend months in the Intensive Care Unit and more months or years in physical therapy trying to regain what you lost before your fateful date with a jar of poisoned beans.

A three hour boiling water bath and a good jar seal will kill anything in the beans BUT the heat resistant spores of the Clostridium botulinum bacteria. Now with any given jar of beans processed in the above manner there may not be any such spores in it, or if there are something may prevent them from breaking open and producing live botulinum bacteria. On the other hand there just might be viable spores in that jar and if the seal is *good* (meaning air tight) then the beans inside will now be in an anaerobic (meaning very low oxygen) atmosphere which those botulinum spores need to produce live bacteria. In that case within a few hours to days they'll break open, produce live bacteria and the bacteria will begin to produce lethal poison.

Fortunately both the live botulinum bacteria (not the spores) and the poison are susceptible to heat and will die or break down when boiled for ten to fifteen minutes. The reason the USDA and the extension services recommend boiling even your pressure canned beans is because people make mistakes and the boiling before serving suggestion is just another way to lower the risk even further. Personally, if *I* pressure canned those beans I don't because I know how I work but if someone gives me a jar of home canned beans I certainly do because I wasn't there to see them processed.

There's no law saying you *must* pressure can your green beans, it's just prudent to do so, especially given the easy availability of pressure canners. If this lady wants to boiling water bath her beans then three hours will certainly do the job presuming she has done a proper job in the rest of the process BUT I sure hope she'll be kind enough to let any potential diners know how she processed those beans BEFORE they have eaten them so that they can make up their own minds as to whether doing so would be a prudent course.

={(Oak)-

-- Live Oak (oneliveoak@yahoo.com), July 24, 2001.

Oak, why not just instruct the lady to boil those home canned greenbeans for 15 minutes after opening the jar, no matter how they were processed? You know there is no other fail-proof method of safety for those things. The GOVERNMENT even recommends the boiling- after-opening routine for home-PRESSURED green beans.

LOL End of subject.

-- daffodyllady (daffodyllady@yahoo.com), July 24, 2001.

How would I can them in The canner and how long because I was always tought to can them in hot water bath but now that I'm trying it on my own I would like information on how to pressher can and how. please help tabiha

-- Tabitha Borkholder (tborkholder@yahoo.com), July 31, 2001.

Can you safely use the waterbath method if you store the jars in the fridge until eating? Thanks.

Jackie Joiner

-- Jackie Joiner (as.last@home.com), August 09, 2001.

Jackie...my understanding is that if you water-bath non-acid veggies, you must refridgerate and use within a few days. Also, if you pressure-can and the lid does not seal, refridgerate and also use within a few days. Botulism is not that common, BUT it only takes once!!!!! Be Safe!

-- Marcia (HrMr@webtv.net), August 09, 2001.