Am I the only one that feels that government and big business are not using good sense when it comes to saving what is left of our trees? Trees are our life source and protectors from toxics and all sorts of pollutions. Homes for so many animals and birds that are vital to our natural environment as well.The rain forests are a vital part of Earth's ecology,,,WHAT will it take before they stop cutting every tree down for profit? I even see some homesteaders comment on new land that they find, beautiful and lush woods, etc. Than the comment comes "really good timber to sell." But I know a lot of folks love their woods and trees like I do. Hang on to them folks,,these trees may be all that's left if things go on as they are for much longer.***

-- Patsy, MT (cozyhollow-gal@care2.com), May 08, 2001

Answers

Visit the woods north of Houston, and you will quickly see that it isn't just big companies raping the land. Private individuals buy up large acres of trees as they go up for sale. The land is timbered for hardwood, boards, and then pulpwood. The tree tops are then raked into large piles to be burned. Next comes selling your iron ore for road making, leaving the top soil piled up and big holes dug throughout the property. Since most of the property is on a hill/rise that has the iron ore buildup, with these large holes dug and no trees, we then have runoff that floods the roads, and the property is then full of large crevices/erosion. I have asked over and over at our county level that this type of land management be outlawed, with a simple law on the books that you must reclaim the land and spread back the top soil!

Coming from a timber owning family, I can tell you that timber land that is used by business is a whole different story. It is maintained so that generations of families can cut logs from the land, in our instance to make shakes and shingles. Raping the land would have very quickly put my father out of business. Thank goodness though for folks like Ted Turner who own so much of our wilderness, unless privately owned like this, the government soon finds a loophole to cut or drill. Vicki

-- Vicki McGaugh TX (vickilonesomedoe@hotmail.com), May 08, 2001.

Yup. Up here people from cities come in, see how beautiful it is, and decide to move here. How do they do it? They buy a piece of timbered land, log it until the sales of the logs cover the cost of the land, and then sit back and feel like they were smart to be so astute and to get the land for 'free'. Others (loggers) buy timbered land, high grade log it, hold it till land prices increase, then resell the raped land. There are less and less of the beautiful, old growth trees. Sometimes even the second growth is pretty sparse.

-- Chamoisee (chamoisee@yahoo.com), May 08, 2001.

Once when I was backpacking it got dark so I stopped where I was and slept. When I got up I found I'd been by an old growth redwood tree! I wish I could describe how I felt to see this beautiful tree first thing in the morning! In California its a constant battle with the timber industry to save those trees. It absolutly breaks my heart to see em under attack once again with a new president. Maybe everyone should have to sleep under one to really understand that we need to preserve one of the earths wonders!....Kirk

-- Kirk Davis (kirkay@yahoo.com), May 08, 2001.

We are losing 27,000 species a year, 74 per day, one every 20 minutes, due in no small part to the 500,000 trees that are cut every HOUR in tropical forests. From "The Ecology of Commerce" by Paul Hawken

John Muir would roll over in his grave if he could know how we are destroying the earth's forests. There are things we can do to help though 1)Plant trees, lots of them 2)Don't use any more paper than is absolutely needed. For example I don't take a newspaper of any kind, I don't use paper towels, and I don't print things off the computer unless I really need them. 3)When you do buy paper products buy recycled paper products.

-- debra in ks (solid-dkn@msn.com), May 08, 2001.

Patsy, having worked in the woods (water quality investigations, mostly) for MANY years, I can tell you that only a major paradigm shift is going to change things.

As long as we have the "bottom line" mentality, there will always be those who put their own profit over the well being of forests, wildlife, and you and me.

Vicky, I'm glad that the forest industries in your area are being such good stewards. I'm flabbergasted, since I grew up in Texas, and that 's not the way I perceived Texans when I was there.

Unfortunately, the forest industries here on the west coast of the usa are a different breed, apparently. Although there are a few (mostly family owned) lumber companies, the majority of them are the worst, greediest, companies I've ever experienced first hand.

I used to work for the US Geological Survey, doing an investigation of the hydologic condition of the Redwood Creek watershed. That is the main stream which flows through Redwood National Park. It would be called a river anywhere but in this temperate rainforest.

The environmental abuse was unbelievable. The main channel of Redwood Creek had aggraded by over thirty feet, and was still aggrading when I moved to Oregon in 1975.

I'm happy to say that the stream has begun to degrade (opposite of aggrade, although this word can be confusing to the non-hydrologists among us). Unfortunately, I can't give credit to the timber companies for this; I think the main reason things are improving are the much more stringent forest practice laws which were instigated in the mid seventies, largely as a result of the water study I was involved with.

If you ever get a chance to fly over northern Calif. or Oregon, and look down at the devastation of our forests, you'll be amazed.

Disgracefully, it is the big timber barons who seem to have the ear of the Forest Service and BLM, and get to reap the benefits (money) of these agencies' terrible land use decisions.

Kirk, I was privileged to be able to work in the Redwoods for four years--hiking, taking water samples, surveying, and sleeping during some of the biggest rains in the last hundred years. Scary, awesome (in the literal sense), powerful, gorgeous.

The most mystical experiences I've ever had were associated with these majestic forests. Everyone should go spend some time there (time a few miles, and realities away from the nearest highway, though, or it won't count)

The reason these forests are under such a fierce attack, in addition to just plain old greed (excuse me, capitalism) is that there are a finite number of trees, and a seemingly infinitely increasing demand for resources. Read that "population pressures".

JOJ

-- jumpoff joe (jumpoff@ecoweb.net), May 08, 2001.

There are two sides to any story and there are here. I own several acres of really old trees. At least old for here in the south. We have found that the oldest trees normally around here are around 100 years old and they are showing signs of deteriation. What we do is cut out the mature trees when they reach their prime and immidately replant. The ones that are already past using we cut and use for firewood or what ever. Some I use for woodcarving and woodturning, they are not wasted and we take them out before they can dammage the sorrounding younger trees. Everything has a life cycle and eventually even the giant redwoods do die. I agree we have no right to cut trees just to cut trees but it can be done in a responsible way. We continually cut out dammaged trees that have problems and will probably die. We have a hundred acres and so far have planted over thirteen thousand trees. And we have harvested a few hundred.

-- David (bluewaterfarm@mindspring.com), May 09, 2001.

I agree with (David ??) that cutting can be done responsibly, and also with someone else that a major shift needs to take place. Unfortunately, it ain't just the trees...

There are some corporations out there that manage and replant, taking wonderful care of the land and resources. There are others that clear-cut and destroy. Same with individuals. Goes that way no matter what the subject!

People the world over (but I especially pick on my fellow Americans ) don't care unless it personally and tangibly touches them. If everything in my house is electric, I don't want to change, even if my next door neighbor faces rolling black-outs. Same with trees, gas, water - and the list goes on.

Yep - think its horrible to rape the resources (and each other over the resources). Nope - don't believe people have the intelligence or compassion to change.

-- Sue Diederich (willow666@rocketmail.com), May 09, 2001.

David, what you are doing is called "woodlot management". It is very responsible behavior that would benifit us all if more people would do it. Thank you for your efforts.

-- diane (gardiacaprines@yahoo.com), May 09, 2001.

I am glad to read of so many that are concerned with the unnecessary destruction of our trees and forests. It is encouraging isn't it, to know many are doing what they can to conserve trees. The forest service here in MT is greedy but trying not to let the public realize it. They don't give the public credit for much intelligence. Always bringing out how good it is to cut trees, good for the forests, good for the community, and good for the economy,, (which is the bottom line in their way of thinking) The government heads here are going along with them. Makes me so upset.***There is a big up-roar about closing some roads in our National forests so as to save much of the natural growth of trees and small plants. Right away the forest service speak up and say no one will be able to get in to cut out or take out damaged trees. Is that their "true motive"?? Not from what I hear and understand. On the other side of their mouth they are always saying how the "sale" of the timber helps this and that. Like the state would go into collapse if they didn't sell timber constantly.

I know forests have trees that need removed and people need wood for building houses and for heating. If there weren't so much "greed" we would always have enough wood for those necessities. Our trees would always be there for us.

Years ago when I heard that big companies were cutting down trees and selling them (as lumber) to Japan and other places, I thought to myself, 'how senseless can you get!!. Just take a look at Japan and other oriental countries. They have barely any trees and I don't know if they have "any' forests. Why? Because they cut them all down. Why are they buying lumber from the US? The answer is obvious. No trees in their own country. I just have to shake my head. The governments and businesses in charge just don't care if all the forests are cut down as long as it don't happen in their lifetime while they are in power and raking in the money. It sickens me.

Deb in KS and Dave of Bluewater farms I appreciate so much what you are doing for the trees. Your management sounds very beneficial and you can feel good about what you are doing. Good example for all.

Kirk Davis your story touched my heart,,I could almost feel what you were trying to convey about the Old growth trees. Tears came to my eyes. I love our trees very much,,,and it hurts to have to see all this mindless destruction being done and stand helplessly by,, and just like so many other things that have gone haywire in this world, things have gone too far, it is now in God's hands,,and I hope no one gets offended for me saying that.

-- Patsy, MT (cozyhollow-gal@care2.com), May 10, 2001.

I'm also glad there are some folks here who look at more than the bottom line, in managing their forests.

I've got 43 acres, about ten of which (old growth, very large trees) my wife and I are going to put into a conservation trust. We will be allowed to continue managing the forest the way we do now: we only cut trees that die naturall, and haul them to a local mill for lumber. If you cut the trees within a few months (ponderosa pine), or within a year or two (Sugar pine, douglas fir, and cedar), the wood is fine for lumber. The smaller stuff (under 12-14", I leave for the Pileated Woodpeckers.

On this ten acres, I generally only have two or three big trees die per year, even though the biggies are all around three hundred years old.

As far as exporting logs to Japan (and Germany, and I suppose other countries as well), we conservationists get a bit frustrated by being blamed for lack of jobs in the timber industry, when said industry is exporting WHOLE LOGS,not lumber, overseas. Greed. And Disingenuity.

Do you think the Coast Redwoods really die? Their scietific name is "Sequoia sempervirens", and sempervirens means "always living". Indeed, when the old trees get old and weak, they eventually fall over during rain/windstorms. You can hear them hit the ground several miles away!. But then, the trunks lying on the ground start sending up sprouts, as do the roots. The resulting trees are genetically the same individual as the one which fell down. Did it die? I don't think so; I think it was just getting a fresh start.

JOJ

-- jumpoff joe (jumpoff@ecoweb.net), May 10, 2001.

I took a long drive down the Pacific Coast Highway last fall, my first in about 15 years. It plain broke my heart. Where there used to be nothing but forest as far as you could see, now you can't go more than a few miles without seeing clearcuts. It used to be that the lumber companies tried to hide their clearcutting from the public by leaving a narrow strip along roadways intact, now they don't seem to care who knows what they're up to. It's all going to be gone soon at this rate, except for perhaps some private trusts and a few show parks. The real wilderness is almost gone in this country now, it might already be too late to stop the trend. I don't know if I'd want to live in a country with no wild places left. What's the answer? Damnned if I know, but I hope someone has some ideas.

Rick

-- Rick Hostetler (osulphu@aol.com), May 15, 2001.