Gas Prices Rise Again : LUSENET : Freedom! self reliance : One Thread

Well folks gas went up another 20 cent. Now were paying $1.79 for regular. Friends in WI say $1.92 is cheap there. Out in Southern California its already over $2.00. I've been told by people in the oil business that the new numbers to look for are $2.50 - $4.00 per gallon by end of summer.

Have we become so Complacent that nothing urges us to DO something?

There has to be more of us (the ones whom do not want to pay over a buck a gallon) than the ones that think $3.00 a gallon is fine.


-- Kenneth in N.C. (, May 09, 2001


What a coincidence Ken! I just logged on here to post almost the same thing!!!!!!! Gas is up to $1.89 here in my part of Ky. now and it is nothing for it to go up 20cents a week. I've been hearing the plan is to get it up to over $3 a gallon. What do you propose we do? My husband and I have cut down our trips as much as we can. He has to drive 30 miles each way to work and when I do my "big" shopping, which is usually twice a month, that's where I go too. I'm considering going just once a month and even considering going in with my husband at 5:30 AM when he goes to work so we'll only use one car. There is no one around here he can car pool with. It now costs us $40 to $50 a week for gas and we expect that to go up. A guy who works with my husband has to drive over 70 miles each way to work. Unfortunately, when you live in the boonies, it's a long drive to work and shop usually. We are planning for my husband to retire early but that could easily be 5 years from now. If gas keeps going up this way, we may have to plan earlier for him to retire. We have cut out all unnecessary trips and I really don't know what else to do. Unfortunately, it takes gas to get to and from work. Any suggestions? It would be great if we didn't have to buy any, we do seek out the cheapest place but that is becoming more and more difficult as they all seem to be jumping on the band waggon. I feel for the poor truckers as diesel is going up too.

-- Barb (, May 09, 2001.

I hear this is all a plot by the media to make Bush look bad. Now I hear that from someone I have a hard time believing but usually find out she's right.

I asked the manager at the Jay C store in North Vernon if the gas hike was going to effect food prices drastically and he said "oh sure, some prices will be higher" I said yes but will it be drastic, he said "oh I don't think it will be drastic" but it was funny how he couldn't look at me while he said that.

North Vernon down to $1.76, here $1.84. Guess it will be longer in between grass cuttings, we cut two lawns.

-- Cindy (SE In) (, May 09, 2001.

There is nothing that we can do other than find alternatives to the gasoline and diesel fuel that we DEPEND on.Not rubbing anyones nose in it but I now feel very vindicated about all the fuel I "hoarded" prior to Y2K.I paid slightly over $1 a gallon for it and that was with a five year stabilizer added.My supply will eventually run out but hopefully not before fuel prices have stabilized at a more livable level.We predicted $4-$5 per gallon fuel(if available at all) I guess we were just off a bit about the timing and cause.As far as "DOING SOMETHING!" military adventure is pretty much out of the equation after 8 years of Clinton gutting the military.Do you really want to trade blood for oil? Do you think we could pull it off if we were willing?The rest of the oil consuming world would turn on us like a pack of hungry dogs.(Odd how the strategic reserve that was released under Clinton's tenure went to England and europe not us.)We wouldn't just be flattening some oil oasis and taking it by conquest.Once we had it we would have to fight the rest of the world to keep it.It would be world war and we would be the germans this time.How about we drill and explore for oil right here at home.Oops can't do that the greenies might get upset.How about we take fossil fuels out of the equation for electrical power generation.We build more nuke plants.(Where I grew up I could see the steam from TMI).Sorry thats right NO MORE NUKES!Solar? Last time I checked the best panels were 2-5% efficient.You still need to burn oil to make the solar panels.Ok want to GROW your own fuel? Get ready to jump through hoops galore.Alcohol? well do you really want to deal with the same folks that coordinated the weenie roast at Waco?How about rape seed for diesel fuel (Biodiesel)Too bad it won't run very well if at all in the new diesel engines that are government mandated.Making Biodiesel also requires alcohol so that brings us back to the BATF.Fuel cells? Have you seen any of the new ones personally? I've read about them but have never actually laid hands on one I rather doubt any of you have either.They just are not being developed.Even if I can go down to Wal-mart and buy one today they still need a fossil fuel like propane or natural gas to operate.Ok so we go to a proven runner like hydrogen fuel cells.They work for NASA.Hydrolizing the water to make H and O2 requires electricity which we will be making using fossil fuels.(NO NUKES!)So now how do we store all that lovely hydrogen?All of us being the superior creations of the great pumpkin that we are.....we can be trusted to store and use this fuel safely.How do you feel about your idiot neighbor having his own supply though.Better yet how would you feel about ME with his own supply of highly flammable hydrogen?You've seen how badly I spell.I must not be the sharpest knife in the drawer.Lets see greg with a limitless supply of hydrogen.....How many hefty steel sacks WILL it take to lift me my lawn chair and a case of beer? I wish I had an easy answer to this latest "crisis". I don't.What is needed is a major rethink of the system we are using to provide power to this country.

-- greg (, May 09, 2001.

How about we all grow our own food and clothes, barter, use horse and buggies, make our own candles, go to bed when it gets dark and get up with the chickens? What would the government/powers that think they be, do if we all did that, to corrupt our lives? What would the greenies complain about then? I'm sure they'd find something.

-- Cindy (SE In) (, May 09, 2001.

I'd love to help out with this one, but don't really have anything constructive. I don't drive anymore - though I still have my car. Most folks can't do that.

There are a ton of things that can conserve gas, gazillions. But, we still eventually have to refill the tank. Perhaps going diesel and making your own, but most can't do that either. I am considering that for an 'after we move' type thing. There are a couple links that were posted on a forum, might even have been this one, but I don't remember. They are:

I know Eric does this, I lost his site addy. He said he doesn't have the paper up on it yet, but will soon.

As for doing things to conserve, use synthetic oils that are made for the purpose. Not only do they boost the gas mileage, but in many cases, don't have to be changed for up to 10,000 miles. They will say so on the back of the bottle. Inflate tires to 2 - 4 pounds over the ideal pressure. This will NOT lessen the life of tires... Make sure the car is tuned and running properly. Don't use the air conditioner - have it disconnected. There are things you can put onto the carburator to help with efficiency. Most of these things will gain you only 2 - 4 gallons per mile, so doing only one won't make much of a change. Also, try to drive at as steady a speed as possible. Braking and accelerating use more gas. Finally... It has been proven over and over, yet many people foolishly believe that cruising speed has something to do with gas mileage. No. Getting to the speed has to do with the mileage.

I thought I was being silly when I decided it was cheaper to have a horse than a car, but I'm not so sure anymore. Course, for me town is only about two blocks away. Different matter taking a horse the 50 miles to Boise, lol!!

As for the prices... we still have the cheapest gas in the world. I think its really quite funny that we use more, pay less and still complain like its evil incarnate. I don't like it any more than anybody else, and do everything I can to avoid going to the pump. Also don't buy from certain companies, as was suggested on an earlier post.

Unfortunately, those of us who homestead, live in the 'country' or live in small towns wind up paying while everyone else sits and does little more than complain. I hate to divide city/country, but 'they' cause problems for everyone. I do have to say, though, that it seems more like divine retribution than persecuting the downtrodden. As with the electricity issue.... I have to laugh.

-- Sue Diederich (, May 09, 2001.

Cindy, I personally love your idea. Too bad more of us don't live close to each other. Unfortunately if we tried to sell the general population on the idea they'd run us out of town. Maybe, though, this will wake up some people. I won't hold my breath. Evidently we're cheap compared to most of the country - unleaded at the cheap stations is still $1.43, but even that is high to me. We''re in the same position as others, my husband drives 20+ miles each way to work. We can't cut that out, but we will cut out a lot of other driving.

-- Deena in GA (, May 09, 2001.

Greg, I am definitely not in favor of any nuke plants, anywhere, for any reason. They are NOT clean, they make using and polluting with fossil fuels seem downright healthful by comparison.

As far as what we can do, all I can say is PREPARE for no gas. That's the way I see it. It will have to be rationed if this coninues and since we are now being voted off every committee on the world government stage, we will be made into what we most likely really are....the renegade world bully. So, seriously, if you can get a horse and wagon, it's probably best to do so. But then the feed costs will be higher too, so it might not be a cheap to fuel a horse as we'd like, but if therre isn't drought they can eat a lot of grass.

Here's the thing regarding the "greenies", they are right about the effects, but wrong about the need to give all personal rights over to governmental bodies to regulate. And I doun't think the typical "greenie" would find a thing wrong with the lifestyle proposed by Cindy, but some crazy Peta folk would say the horse's rights were being trampled upon.

I really don't want to exchange blood for oil, we DO have a lot of oil here, we just need to change our ways a bit.

-- Doreen (, May 10, 2001.

We are already doing everything possible to cut down on the amount of gas we use, short of my husband quitting work. I do think these gas prices are going to have a big economic impact on our country. I'm sure a lot of people will not be taking long vacations this summer who ordinarily would. This will effect the tourism business, won't effect us as we don't travel that much anyway. Literally every commodity is trucked to us and their prices will definitely go up and in the end the consumer will pay increased prices for everything we buy. I can see utilities going up too. Cindy's idea would be wonderful to me but I just don't see it as a practical solution. I do know that if things get bad enough, I can get by better than most and can do without a lot. Although it would be inconvenient, I could manage without electricity and for sure could manage without running to the store all the time. We prepared for Y2K and we are still prepared. Oh yes, we do have several gallons of "cheap" gasoline stored too but that won't last forever! Also someone mentioned carburetors, I didn't think cars had carburetors anymore???? We do drive an 11 year old car but I know it doesn't have one and the older cars are really gas hogs.

-- Barb (, May 10, 2001.

Gas in NE Texas is, or was Sunday, $1.69 for regular, %1.86 for premium. That's if you buy at a name brand station. We have a couple of no-name stations here, but I think that's were I got water in my tank that has caused me lots of trouble and cost me several hundred dollars, and we ain't through it all yet.

As for paying $3 to $4 per gallon--the only way I can see to lower the prices is to lower consumption. I'm not willing to send my boys to war so we can have cheap gas. The Arab's oil isn't worth one drop of my sons blood. There are things to fight for, and there are things not to.

Food prices are already going up steadily and dramatically here. I expect the trend to continue. Our best defense against increased food prices is to grow what you can. I suspect strongly that the increased fuel prices will eventually drive us into a depression. It is hard to listen to the business news without hearing daily about another major company laying off somewhere between 1000 and 5000 employees. Eventually Mr Reagan's Trickle Down theory of economics will finally come true. The economy will trickle down to nothing.

All I really know to do is conserve, grow your own, buy in quantity to cut down on trips to town and make do or do without. As for those who have to communte long distances to work, it may turn out to be cheaper to buy a used travel trailer and park it in an RV park or to rent a room with a hot plate. Folks here used to do that when I was a kid. A number of folks worked in Dallas (100 miles away) or at the Red River Army Depot (60 miles away) and they found it to be more economical than commuting each day. Not really a good solution, but sometimes there are no good solutions.

-- Green (, May 10, 2001.

Green, I have thought about the possibility of my husband staying in town all week to work but then who would take care of the cattle (and me!). I'm not physically able to do that. Besides, I would miss him! I have asked him if his employer would consider 4 - 10 hour days instead of 5 - 8 hour days. He doesn't like that idea but it may have to come to that.

-- Barb (, May 10, 2001.

I'm all for saving. Out here in the sticks where I live there's about 145 families in a 2 mile circle. Of the people I personally know only 2 work at the same place. They carpool. It's 4 miles to nearest gas station (Truck Stop) 8.9 miles to nearest grocery store. The average miles to work one way is 48 miles. Some of the guys drive the micro- foreign cars. Others have older V-8 cars. The one common thread of all the families THEY ARE ALL IN DEBT! I'd venture that 1 in 20 might be able to trade off and get a better fuel mpg car. {Ok they could trade but could they afford the new car payment?} The question is how much trade in do you get on a 1989 Chevrolet Impala? (i'd guess not much) There's at least 15 of those in my neighborhood.

We have cut out trips to town to 1x per week. Other than going to work we stay at home.

I have read that the jobbers are to blame and then I read No It is the Oil Companies.

The Oil Biggies have made BILLIONS in the last quarter.

We use CF bulbs, recycle, and try to get 3-5 uses out of everything.

GREG: Hmmmm don't remember saying anything about military adventure.

We have the technology (well "they" have the technology) to produce cars (and trucks) that get 70 mpg. They may not zip you down the interstate at 75 mph but hey get used to leaving early.

The GEO Metro consistently gets 40 mpg and on trips 50 mpg. I know at least 3 families that traded in their Ford F-150's to get Geo's.

It seems a lot of US are already doing our part HOW do we get others to join in??????

-- Kenneth in N.C. (, May 10, 2001.

Hi Kenneth in NC,how do people haul 800# rolls of hay in their Geo's? My F-150 may only get 15 MPH, but if I have to buy 85# bails of hay at $4.00 each and make 5 trips I don't see the savings,maybe I'm missing something here, the same for hauling lumber or water etc. I would like to see someone haul a cow or pigs in a geo. I'm willing to do my part, Does geo make a pickup I can buy used for $500.00?Daryll

-- Daryll (, May 10, 2001.

Kenneth you didn't say any thing about military adventure.I did while thinking about options.Oil, don't have it? Then take it.One option.We can all imagine the consequences.To Doreen regarding nuke plants they DO work and CAN be clean.The problem is the industry was set up to eat up federal hand outs and produce matierial for atomic bombs not make electricity.Radiation still gives me the heebie jeebies.There are far better types of power plants than TMI or Chernoble.One way to reduce the amount of radioactive waste is to use weapons grade fissionables for fuel.The military does.Did you know that the army has tractor trailer mounted nuclear power plants?Do you have any idea the number megawatts a super carrier can produce? All this is done fairly cleanly using weapons grade matierial.And it is done in a small space without killing the operators or creating a dead zone.Knowing what I now know and given the choice between a well designed and run nuke plant and a coal or even natural gas fired plant I'll pick the nuke every time.(acid rain anyone)I was trying to list options rather than push any one agenda.I don't want any more corperate dinosaur nuke plants built but to reject the entire technology is throwing the baby out with the bath water.This whole planet is ultimately powered by a big fusion reactor called the SUN.Some of the other posts regarding vehicles touched on a big part of the problem.INFRASTRUCTURE.I need my big ass ford or my (currently broken)toyota to haul hay, spare parts,etc.I could not afford the nearly $100,000 dollars that a new turbo diesel tractor would cost me so I get by on a farmall H built in 1944.So I limp along on my old gas guzzler.(which is more appropiatly sized for my operation)IF solar technology became more efficient over night I could not afford to adopt it.I have too much investment in infrastructure.I could make alcohol to fuel that big ol truck and tractor.I have a government that would make it almost more expensive to do it than buying $4 a gallon gasoline.Sadly fuel cells were used experimentally in tractors by ford in the 50s!They worked and worked well.Gasoline was 15 cents a gallon so who needed it then.Ask one of the execs at ford about it today and they will not know any thing about it.The folks that built them have long since retired.As an aside did you know that we still have about 6 saturn V and apollo space craft that are in otherwise operational condition but no one exists today that knows how to assemble and launch one? We have the technology to drasticly reduce our need for oil but the inertia of the system we have built is almost too great to allow for change and retrofit untill it all crashes into the brick wall of OUT OF GAS.The best advice that I can give folks is to reduce thier energy needs in other areas by insulatiing the house,using energy efficient lighting and appliances,trying to use solar water heating,etc. Then use the savings to buy that $3 per gallon gas that is coming.If I could afford a new or used econobox car I would have enough money anyway not to need one.

-- greg (, May 10, 2001.

Well Said Greg. And I agree whole heartedly.

-- Kenneth in N.C. (, May 11, 2001.

I have spent the last two years researching the energy sources we use today and alternative energy sources that are coming about. Nuclear is awsome! But with all things, as "god" has us know, there is good and bad in everything. If used it properly and a had little more ability to decontaminate the waste, we could have large trucks sold with a lifetime of fuel that never needs a refill and emitions that the enviroment needs at a cheeper price then what they sell for today. This is not even wepons grade. It's low level. The nuc. industries are taking a bad rap for the bad miss use of there past. The NRC (Nuclear Regulatory commity), that is now in power regulates the industry with incredibly high standards. The level they consider hazardous could not hurt anyone, "which is good!". It is the cheapest power available. Look at your power bill and see what you pay. Imagine if it was only 25%. That is what it would be if the goverment don't add anything. Burning fosil fules is the absolute worst thing we could be doing but they got me spoiled! I can't even eat the fish out of our river because of murcury poisoning linked to the coal mines upstreem. Have you ever been up in an airplane and seen the orange haze in the horizon? Fossile fules is what is here and to change that there would be the need to replace the high paying jobs, and coorporate earnings. It's easy to say that mony don't matter but it does! The F.F. ind. is highly protected, it has the money and the power to controle new technologies and keep them from taking over. Hmmm, now what? Personaly I feel it is nice to pay a small fee, "never feels small enough" to drive home in my f150 walk into my climate controled house click on the light switch relax to an ice cold soda as I play on the computer or with my family but I also feel responsible for the harm I'm doing to the enviroment by using the F.F,'s. I don't realy like either nuc's or F.F.'s but for now it's the world I live in. The alternatives are becoming more possible every day. Solar: Scientific America Magazine Stated that the new tech. solar panels are same size, cheaper, and are up to 38% efficiant. Technology payed for by gov. grants that has been controled by F.F. the past," Looks like some changes are being made". Gasifiers: The ability to put garbage, burnables, waste from saw mills, hay, grain hulls, sewer, etc. in and power of many forms out with suposidly a respectable level of emisions. There is a theory that I ran across that said, in general, what ever is naturaly produced, not mined, could be burned or returned to the enviroment without being a hazard to the enviroment. Is it true? Gasifiers are being built over in 3rd. world contries to produce Mw's of power. Wind: The extreemly high price to build wind farms in areas that have wind. Maintenence cost is high butt they have come along way with tech. to make it more affordable. That's a plus! Hydro power: Dams Very clean. The neat thing is how they came up with a way to store AC power. Not capacitors, not bateries "that would be D.C. and would be hazardous", but by taking the power during off peak hours and running pumps to pump water to higher elevations and storing it till peak hours and powering more generators. It is being used today in another country. The idea of using ocean waves on sores has been tested but has not proven very successful. Air engines: This is probably the best I've seen yet! Again, over in another country, there are cars being produced with air burning engines. They take highly compressed air and burn it. A car can go up to 600 mi. on a tank of air and can be filled up at special filling stations quickly for a fraction of fuel prices or at home, but it takes longer. I found it searching under air engines and at Hydrogen fuel cells: Well it's cleaner! It may be something very useful when it gets here to us. I found it by searching patents on the net @ . It is taking a while but it will be here before you know it. The only thing we can do is prepare for a beter way to supply it fuel then to use natural gas,propane,etc. The only other source of power i can remember seeing off the top of my head is using solar and freon in a to make a rotor turn but I'm not real familiar with it. Sorry about the lack off details where the info is coming from but it can all be found on the internet. If you know of any other power alternatives feel free to let me know.

-- Monte in KY. (, December 05, 2002.

Thanks Monte for your information. I'm into solar energy and I have been doing a little experimenting. One of the ideas I had for a portable water heater that I discussed with someone , well he like the idea so much he patented it in his name. So I have decided until I work out the solar air heating system I'm working on for my house ,and secure a patent on it, I'd rather not discuss to much on solar, publicly .

I watch nature.Every thing there is to know on energy exchanges and transfers is in nature .I sit outside on cold winter days , I look for a warm spots to sit . Then I take into account , why that spot is wamer than another. I'll go out on a morning when the ground has frost on it and notice some sides of a hill may be frost free while there is frost mostly every where else .And I'll try to figure the factors of what kept that area frost free. On a winters day when there is no or little green vegetation on the ground, I'll notice stuff ,like picking up a piece of bark and under neath is a few green strands of grass that found a pocket of warm energy where it's warm enough to grow.

Water is another way to store energy. I grew up by the bay in the north east. The coastal areas were always between 10 to 15 degrees wamer than 20 miles inland in the winter . The bay water which held heat collected in the summer months , regulated the air temperture on the coast making tempertures much milder than inland in winter months ..

There's a group of people in North Carolina that are planning a community run on alternative energy devises.I' hung out with them a few days last year and all they spoke about and had all these papers on , was alternative energy.These guys seem to eat ,sleep and think alternative energy .So hopfully their time and dedication will pay off with some interesting accomplishments that can be an example for future communities.

As far as powering trucks and cars . As long as human depends on trucks and cars for his survival , economy, transportation ,social doom is just down the road. Half our bodies are legs.They have a purpose . We need to use our bodies or our minds won't work quite right. Humans have been traced back to being on this earth more than 70,000 years ago , depending on who's work you read . But it's only been 100 years that we've had the automobile.The whole economy is now set up and designed so you need to have and depend on an automobile to earn your income or get your supplies , food , clothing , ect .

It makes you wonder how man was able to live without a car or truck .Most people can't even imagine life without a car or truck to get into.We are so conditioned to believeing we need a car to survive , that we are always looking for alternative ways to propell our automobiles instead of creating an economy and develope communities where cars or trucks are not needed to sustain our lives. I believe the automobile is one of the singlely most destuctive inventions on this planet .They have done more damage to this planet then than nuclear bombs have . Yet you have so many people who would like to see the atom bombs disassembled and done away with . Yet hardly , if any at all , even mention the hope of doing away with the automobile .

-- Max (, December 05, 2002.

Monte I forgot to mention. Just outside of Knoxville Tennessee , there is a nuclear waste incinerator that burns 4 million tons of radio active waste a year .Some of that waste comes from over seas where we have agreements to dispose of the radio active waste from nuclear power plants in other countries.

I and all the other inhabitants here ingest this radio active waste when we are trying to bring oxygen into our blood when we take each breath .In general this is one of the unhealthiest populations I've had the experience to live with.This is no safe way to use nuclear energy , just like there isn't a humane way to fight a war .

-- Max (, December 05, 2002.

well we all know that Bush and Chaney are oil people so what is the problem ? it's sure no secret. until are greedy president is out of office we are screwed

-- alan kalitta (, February 22, 2003.

how much for a 1999 didge durango. what is the telephone number to speak to a representative.

-- robynelee beck (menace, March 17, 2003.

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