respectfully submitted: who or what were the "sons of God" in Genesis who begot a race of giants on earth? thus precipitating the flood? were they fallen angels?

-- rose marie (bematoo@peoplepc.com), May 24, 2001

Answers

-- (_@_._), May 24, 2001.

Jmj

Hello, Rose Marie.
Chapter 5 of Genesis ends with a genealogy, culminating with this easy-to-understand verse:
32: After Noah was five hundred years old, Noah became the father of Shem, Ham, and Japheth.

If you then skip over the first four verses of Chapter 6, you read this, which is also understandable:
5: The Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
6: And the Lord was sorry that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him to his heart.
7: So the Lord said, "I will blot out man whom I have created from the face of the ground, man and beast and creeping things and birds of the air, for I am sorry that I have made them."

But what are we to make of the intervening verses -- the first four of Chapter 6? ...
1: When men began to multiply on the face of the ground, and daughters were born to them,
2: the sons of God saw that the daughters of men were fair; and they took to wife such of them as they chose.
3: Then the Lord said, "My spirit shall not abide in man for ever, for he is flesh, but his days shall be a hundred and twenty years."
4: The Nephilim [giants] were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men, and they bore children to them. These were the mighty men that were of old, the men of renown.

The truth, as best as I have been able to learn from reading various things, is that the full meaning of these verses is shrouded in mystery. Although commentators seem to agree that they are a means of showing that degradation (polygamy and/or mixing with non-humans) had come upon mankind -- which resulted in God's wrath -- they do not agree about who are the persons named in the verses nor whether they really existed in a literal sense. Some commentators think that the author of Genesis borrowed pieces from an ancient myth, rather than real history, in composing these four verses -- because the story satisfied the purpose of showing how mankind had fallen.

According to a little booklet I have, the "sons of God" have been thought, by various commentators, to be (a) angels or (b) demons or (c) mighty princes or (d) men in general or (e) male prostitutes of Canaanite temples (serving as the "sons of the god" locally worshiped) or (f) the descendants of Adam's pious son Seth. Then, the "daughters of men" are interpreted as descendants of Cain (for f) or women in general or sacred prostitutes of Qatabanian temples (for e). Note that these verses refer to giants existing, but not that they were the offspring of the "sons of God" and the "daughters of men."

Sorry if I did not provide much help!
God bless you.
John

-- (jgecik@desc.dla.mil), May 24, 2001.

Peace... The phrase is also used in The Book of Job. Apparently, without going into 'Symbolism', these refer to Angels. If You get ahold of the 'Dead Sea Scrolls' these angel are even more so descibed (Books: Enoch, Jubelies, & War Scroll). Apparently they were "Wachers of man". Via lonelyness or comely women, they too could not resist the temptation & crossed the heavenly lines & mated with mortal women. Apparently heaven was not pleased.

-- Robert (tlacaetlel@hatmail.com), June 04, 2001.

Jmj

It's strange that you should mention that, Robert.
I just got through stating, on another thread, that angels are pure spirits, lacking bodies. Thus, without bodies, they are incapable of impregnating human women.
The Dead Sea books to which you are referring for information about "sons of God" are not canonical -- not inspired by God -- so I could not count on their being reliable interpreters of Genesis or Job.

God bless you.
John

-- (jgecik@desc.dla.mil), June 04, 2001.

Yes, John. This is one of the many scattered verses in the Holy Bible for which explanations fail. It was the fundamendalist protestant who first insisted every word of every passage of every chapter has its facile, literal interpretation, and led himself into the cul-de-sac of stupefaction. Rather than say, ''We will never know'', and leave it to God, some wish to dominate every subject, as if it were only a language. The question itself, which Rose Marie asks: Isn't it a symptom of the same obsession? ''--It must mean something ! I have to understand it! What else is the Bible for???''

-- eugene c. chavez (chavezec@pacbell.net), June 05, 2001.

Interesting observation, Eugene. I had not thought of that. JFG

-- (jgecik@desc.dla.mil), June 05, 2001.

Yes, John I saw the thread and learned from it. The interpetations of Job & Gensis, that I refered to 'Sons of heaven', are the K.J. version & in one Hebrew/Greek translation Job's Book refers to 'The Gods of heaven'! That superised the heck out of me. I cam see where such can be confusing to anyone. (I will email the ibsen info for any that care to have it)

As to the Dead Sea Scrolls I mentioned them only becuse they address the issue of 'watchers' & it is very much part of Judaic 'lore'. Enoch is interesting to read, but causes to much confusion. Other pieces like the War Scrolls, are laughable (makes you wonder about the effects of the desert sun).

Let us not confuse the truth with the facts. Christ changed the whole thing! By his blood we are free.

-- Robert (tlakaelel@37.com), June 05, 2001.

The Sons of God are the Creation of God in His image and likeness. They are the "man" kind God created, both male and female, called "Adam" which is the man-kind God has created. "Fallen mankind" are those who separated from the mind and spirit God creates in His Creation. The "Son of God" is what God predestined all mankind to be. Man is out of this order, in a fallen state; dead in regards to the life God gives in the "Living Spirit" which is the Word of God that teaches man how to live life according to the greater and higher principles of God. A "giant" in scripture refers to the "stature" of a person; not the physical attributes. The "fullness of the stature of the Son of God" is a reality. It is the mature Son of God, who is the perfected works of God. An "angel" is a minister and a messenger of God, authorized by God to speak the true Word from God which they have received; has been "authored" in them by the Living God.

-- DW Suiter (dwsuiter@toast.net), October 27, 2001.

What can not be , has not

-- Laurent LUG. (no__religion@hotmail.com), October 27, 2001.

Wat er niet is , kan er ook geen hebben

-- Laurent LUG. (no__religion@hotmail.com), October 27, 2001.