Heathens, Pagans, and non Christian Homesteaders (Seeking for Intentional Community)greenspun.com : LUSENET : Countryside : One Thread |
Greetings all; I'm still kinda new to this forum, and am looking for other non Christian homesteaders. I am Asatru, or norse heathen, and follow the gods of the ancient germanic folk. My beliefs have gotten a bit of heat in the media lately, so allow me to declare that I am not a white supremecist or racist. I am what is generally know as a folkish person, meaning that I believe that my religion is best suited to people of northern European heritage. This doesn't mean that I have any problem with those who think differently, it's just the way I feel. I am intensely interested in all religions and cultures, including my own seemingly disapearing culture. I guess you could say that I'm not a universalist hehe.I am interested in creating a community of like minded heathens somewhere in the northwest, and having mixed luck so far. I'd like to invite anyone interested to visit my Yahoo club for more information on this. http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/asatrutribes
I guess I'm just curios to see how many Asatruar and other heathens are lurking arond here. I did see the post earlier this year and know I'm not the only one, but I would be interested in exchanging ideas with other folks here on this forum.
I have been a country boy all my life, and will hopefully be making a move to my own (or a tribal) homestead this year or next. I'd also like to hear the experiences of other heathens and pagans in their quest for a life closer to the earth.
Thank you for your time. Rick P.S. To all the Christians who tuned in to this, welcome and I bear you all no malice. Just looking for some folks after my own heart. Kinda hard to find a heathen sometimes.
-- Rick Hostetler (osulphus@aol.com), May 25, 2001
Welcome Rick.Although I follow Christ's teachings, I find many interesting things here. Nice to meet you.
BTW- Don't be afraid to read Hoot's threads. Hoot is a neat old dude. The Christian material is usually just his heart-felt plea to consider Jesus.
May you be at peace, and your life be Blessed.
-- Rick K (rick_122@hotmail.com), May 25, 2001.
I don't think heathens are that hard to find, seems how I can't swing a Bible without bashing one in the head!
-- Laura (Ladybugwrangler@hotmail.com), May 26, 2001.
Welcome to the forum, Rick. You may not find most of the heathen/pagan "lurkers" willing to decloak. Also, religious topics usually end up in big fights here, so they have been "banned". Perhaps like-minded folk will contact you at your email address. You might also be the recipient of viruses or other cyber-attacks.Good luck in your search!
-- Joy F [in So. Wisconsin] (CatFlunky@excite.com), May 26, 2001.
Hi Rick, There are two other forums on greenspan that you might try, (beyond the sidewalks) and (freedom self reliance). Both are off shoots from this forum. I like all three of them. Daryll
-- Daryll (twincrk@hotmail.com), May 26, 2001.
Rick, the community that you are trying to start, by any chance are you going to be the self proclaimed leader?
-- SM Steve (a12goat@cs.com), May 26, 2001.
Shoot! For a minute there everyone was being so nice! Rick, I also recommend the Beyond The Sidewalks forum, e-mail me if you can't find it. They are into alternative religion and philosophy and such. I find THIS board most useful for getting straightforward answers to practical questions, with some occassional sharp-edged bantering thrown in. Overall, everybody's friendly, but honestly Rick, folks like you have pretty much been driven away from this forum already.
-- Shannon at Grateful Acres Animal Sanctuary (gratacres@aol.com), May 26, 2001.
Those couple of apparent Christians who have bashed you areI see a couple of apparent Christians have bashed you. It would seem that they are choosing (by their judgement of others) to be judged on the merrits of their own righteousness. Pity my soul if not for the ransom He paid.
-- Rick K (rick_122@hotmail.com), May 26, 2001.
First, to SM Steve; No, unlike many christians, heathens generally don't go in for following blindly. Who needs leaders? To everyone else, thanks for your responses, I guess I'd hoped we could discuss things here without getting bashed. I don't mind a bit of sharp edged bantering, but I did try to keep it pleasant. I have read Hoot's posts and never failed to get a laugh, he sounds like a great guy. I have nothing against Christians, just don't happen to be one. But I won't back down from anyone, my gods don't require that I be "nice" all the time. Christians have their place here, and I would like to see those of other beliefs have one too. If the occasional bickering or bad feelings take place, that's pretty much normal in any society. I have found much to my liking in this forum, and won't be chased off easily, and I may occasionally say something that annoys some people. Oh well. Y'all have said things that annoy me too, but I don't take it personally.I'll get in touch with those that emailed me personally, and hope to hear from some more.
Rick
-- Rick Hostetler (osulphus@aol.com), May 26, 2001.
Laura, dear, your standing too close to the heathens and Bible swinging was just a short lived fad, traditional "thumping" is still considered acceptable.
-- mitch hearn (moopups1@aol.com), May 26, 2001.
Hahaha, Mitch you seem to be thinking of the pacifst type of pagan. I and most other Asatruar are not pacifistic in the least. I'm an ex military cop and have practised several martial arts (armed and unarmed) most of my life, so bring on your thumpin'. You'll find my type a little more difficult to deal with than the fluffy bunny dancin' nekkid 'round the fire sort of victims you may have gotten used to.Rick
P.S. Rick K. I do appreciate your tolerant attitude, I do try to cultivate the same, but some folks just won't let me, and I refuse to be pushed around. You're the sort of Christian that gives me hope for the rest of them.
-- Rick Hostetler (osulphus@aol.com), May 26, 2001.
Ricky, you are an inmature hostile child, you do not belong here. Your invitation theto. martial arts comparison automaticly displays your stupidity, I have 26 months in Viet Nam in the USMC, 68' through 70', in the "I" corps. If you want to show us how "bad" you are try the WWF. If you want to find enemies to overcome try the neighborhoods where the enemies are poverty, stupidity, raceisim, ignorance, and people who think like you. I never claimed "Christan Reality", you just thought it sounded correct to have someone to attack; put your hormones in a place that allows you to think minus them. Tuck in your loin cloth, child, go to the local jail and tell them where you can be found, when they are looking for you for your first charge of spouse abuse or child molestation. If this is too much for you come to Orlando, 617 Silvereton St. call 407 341 8130 and I will meet you for further explanitation. My quote was for Luara whom does appear aware of rectal passages like you.
-- mitch hearn (moopups1@aol.com), May 26, 2001.
But Mitch, whenever I try a light thump, they yell "OW" and claimed they've been bashed.Now I could'a said "Swing a cat," but then PETA folks would'a been mad. MEOW
-- Laura (Ladybugwrangler@hotmail.com), May 26, 2001.
Gee Mitch, you get all worked up over a bunch of bullshit. If you recall I wasn't the one who started the assinine threats, just that if anyone wants to thump this particular heathen, he'd have his work cut out for him, I-corps or whatever. Maybe you thought I'd tuck in my tail and scurry off after your scolding, well that aint gonna happen. I belong wherever I want to belong, and I'll hang out here as long as I like, regadless of what some backwards gatorbait like you thinks. I didn't go into this looking for a fight, merely some like minded folks, but this seems to be too much of a threat to you and your cohorts. Perhaps it's you who should grow up and get a life rather than hassling anyone who doesn't agree to your particular world view. I have this nasty habit of speaking my mind, but that seems to frighten little men like yourself. always got to be right don't you? You accuse me of needing someone to attack? I think defending my own position is more accurate. I'm just not the type to let an implied threat slide. If that bugs you, Good. As for travelling to Florida, no thanks. Not worth the trip just for some burned out old fart. Enjoy your fantasies of superiority. I know that's probably all you've got leftRick
-- Rick Hostetler (osulphus@aol.com), May 26, 2001.
Welcome Rick we need all kinds of people in this world for variety. Lighten up everyone this isn't the play ground. I'm sure we're all mature enough to allow difference to be spice not pepper.Good luck, Rick
-- Wynema Passmore (nemad_72039@yahoo.com), May 26, 2001.
Rick I diddn't bash you on the non Christian ( Heathen )thing.It was the creating a communal or community thing. I've been in a few and have spoke with others who've been in them.I was in non Christian ones ,I've spoke with others that have been in Christian communities .You jump to the conclusion I was bashing you for being a heathen.The communities that I've lived in was suppose to be non leader ,everyone equal.But a few people seemed to group up and dominated the place.That's what I meant by self proclaimed leader . We all came from a tribal past, look where it took us.It's like going in circles.Hope your leaderless experiment works.It'll be a first. I didn't mean to start the Holy War. Steve
-- SM Steve (a12goat@cs.com), May 26, 2001.
Hey Steve, I guess I'm a little touchy that way too. I have no idea if such a thing can work or not, but I'm a lousy leader and a worse follower. Most Asatruar are pretty independent sorts, and I imagine that will make it more difficult rather than less. The sort of thing I'm hoping for is a close knit community, with a few common projects. Every family to have it's own household and their own hierachy, on land that they own personally, every family self sufficient on their own, but part of a supporting tribe. It's a tall order to expect it to go without a hitch, and I imagine there will be plenty of problems. Hopefully they'll be resolvable. Sorry if I came off wrong, I guess I'm just used to people not understanding what it is I'm trying to build. Shucks, there may need to be some type of leadership, but I wouldn't take the job for any price. I would also like to appologize to everyone else for getting riled up, and would like to see some peace restored here if possible. I'm an oppinionated a**hole, and do tend to vent my oppinions frequently. But at least I seem to be in good company around here. :-)No hard feelings, just trying to find a niche.
Rick
-- Rick Hostetler (osulphus@aol.com), May 26, 2001.
Did I miss something here? Aren't we a homesteading forum?
-- Kate henderson (kate@sheepyvalley.com), May 27, 2001.
Have you searched for a forum for those who are just getting out of prison? That's where you will find the largest concentration Norse god followers. Perhaps check with your local community corrections officer, he can tell you where they all hang.
-- Raspberries (I don't care@dial-a-prayer.com), May 27, 2001.
Sorry about all this caca you're having to look at, Rick H., but, hey I told ya! Definitely look at Beyond the Sidewalks...good homesteading info AND more tolerant folks.
-- Shannon at Grateful Acres Animal Sanctuary (gratacres@aol.com), May 27, 2001.
Allright you guys, Ken told us to be good while he was gone. Rick, you are welcome here just as anyone else is. There are no rules for joining, we all share a love of homesteading and doing more for ourselves. There are all kinds of people here, it's not a big deal unless we make it one. There, I said it.
-- Cindy in KY (solidrockranch@hotmail.com), May 27, 2001.
Does anyone have knowledge enough about myths to interpuet "osulphus"?
-- mitch hearn (moopups1@aol.com), May 27, 2001.
Does anyone have knowledge enough about myths to interpuet "osulphus"?-- mitch hearn (moopups1@aol.com), May 27, 2001.
Osulphus, as far as I can gather, is not connected with Norse Mythology. The name Osulphus has something to do with family lands, William the Conqueror, and a Doomsday book. I did a search on Google to find the information.
Stacy in NY
-- Stacy Rohan (KincoraFarm@Aol.com), May 27, 2001.
Rick you metioned exchanging ideas and that you'd like to hear the experiences of other Heathens & Pagans in their quest for a life closer to earth.I won't get into religion,just homestead related stuff.I had seen a communiy in the mid 70's that seem to be successful.They weren't based on religion, but out of the fact that everyone involved wanted a big size parcel but couldn't afford one.So a group of people bought about 200 acres and divided it to about 10 parcels and had about 4 acres of community garden that was a free zone that the whole community owned.The community garden was for get togethers like birthday parties for kids,fourth of july,and end of growing season party,where everyone brought some kind of cooked dish that they grew most of the foods.Each family owned their parcel.They were employed in different situations.But they all homesteaded.I only visited them once,they kept to themselves mostly.I didn't get detailed info from them as to what they do when someone wants to sell their parcel.But it didn't seem like anyone wanted to sell so I think they might have had an ideal situation.They too were in the Northwest.I would think that most homesteaders have a streak of independece in them that would make it hard to be part of a community that has a set religious belief ,even if it's the same as their own?
-- SM Steve (a12goat@cs.com), May 27, 2001.
Welcome Rick. I am a Christian, so can't help you there. Come on everyone, where are your manners? It takes all kinds to make this world interesting. Sounds like Rick has the background to be here, so let's welcome him and get on to countrysiding!
-- Michael W. Smith in North-West Pennsylvania (KIRKLBB@PENN.COM), May 27, 2001.
Seems my screen name is bugging some of you. Ok, are you dying to know? Osulphus was the name of one of my ancestors, another spelling was Oswulf. It's an old English name, doesn't mean anything in particular except to me. He lived in Cumberland circa 1189, that's about all the detail I've got myself.Also, yes there are Asatru in prison. As there are also christians, muslims, and quite a few others as well. they are not by any means the largest part of the population and I don't associate with convicts as a general rule. So I thought I'd have a look around here. I had assumed that a simple polite question, not intended to provoke anyone might be received peacefully here. And many of you have met my expectations. As for the rest, I just wonder what it is about people like me that scares you so much. This country was built on freedom of religion, and nowhere did it say just different varieties of Christian. But free speech is also allowed, so say what you like and I'll do the same.
Rick
-- Rick Hostetler (osulphus@aol.com), May 27, 2001.
Hi Rick, Its nice to see a guy with the guts to stand up for himself! As someone else said try the Beyond the Sidewalks forum. No one will put you down for anything there.
-- debra in ks (solid-dkn@msn.com), May 27, 2001.
Forget the prison suggestion. The inmates are mostly christians while doing time and who knows when they are out. Religion really isn't their thing unless it can be used.
-- Memnoch DiVel (Obviousman@yahoo.com), May 27, 2001.
Welcome to the forum, Rick.While I have had very limited experience in communal living, I have noticed the one thing that seems to make or break the situation every time. PRIVACY! I may be drawing more from this that there really is, but I seem to notice that the more the community shares basic amenities, such as kitchen, bath, or general living space, the more opportunities there are for friction. What seems to work best is individual housing units, well spaced, and an outdoor area and/or building used for community functions.
Now, for the Asatru question. While not Asatru myself, I have quite a few heathen friends, and have hosted an Asatru gathering on our farm. They were very enjoyable guests, who did a marvelous job of picking up after themselves and keeping the little ones out of mischief. They are welcome back any time! I have consistantly found them to be very gentle and respectful of others. At the same time, they speak their minds freely, with no apologies for doing so, and have no problem with the idea of defending themselves or their loved ones if threatened. Every Asatruar I have ever met is as disturbed by the 'racial' subgroup of their faith as Christians are at the mention of folks like Jim Jones. As in any group of people, it is the attention seeking minority that draws attention to itself, often drastically misrepresenting the majority of more sensible folk.
Now, with that out of the way, let's play nice, and get back to homesteading.
-- Connie (Connie@lunehaven.com), May 27, 2001.
Thank you Connie! It was real nice to see your post. I agree completely about communal living. I think ideally it would consist of several families each living on their own land, 5-20 acres each, with a commonly held central area for get togethers. Not too many , if any rules, and just a common outlook to hold the whole thing together. Each family to be responsible for making their own living, just ready and able to help out neighbors in need. Maybe some community projects, but not as a mandatory thing. Asatruar are real independent types generally, and I don't see many wanting to get into a "commune" type setting. I think it would help if all or most in the community were of similar backgrounds and beleifs, as that would seem to minimize possible frictions. Might work, might not, never know 'till we try. There are intentional communities in this and other countries that have managed to survive for many years to many generations, No reason I can think of why it wouldn't work again.Again thanks to all for the (mostly) warm welcome I've received here. I don't mind a good argument now and then, but assinine name calling and pointless insults don't seem necessary. I'll try to keep my end of it civil, but when attacked I get kinda nasty sometimes, and respond in what may not be an entirely rational manner. But I will try!
Rick
-- Rick Hostetler (osulphus@aol.com), May 27, 2001.
Hello Rick, Welcome to the countryside forum! I am sorry that there are "others" out there that are so quick to criticize or bash anyone that is not "walking the their same shoes". Usually when someone has a different religion there are those in this forum that will criticize instead of research. I come to this forum for knowledge about homesteading. It is true that politics and religion play an important role in homesteading and thus, acceptable here, IMHO. I am a Scientologist and have studied many religions and their origins. As a Scientologist I respect other religions believing that each one's own religion is there to help improve them. If your religion improves you, "and I mean that in all aspects spiritually, physically, emotionally, etc" then it MUST be the right religion for you. I feel that same about Scientology. Hope you will gain much from this forum as I have. Sincerely, Ernest
-- http://communities.msn.com/livingoffthelandintheozarks (espresso42@hotmail.com), May 27, 2001.
I have to say up front that I've only read about 1/2 of the posts here, so if the following does not not relate to you or a post made here, don't get tweaked.Rick, Nice to meet you. Right wing, Christian, conservative hello! Don't have to agree w/ you to share this place.
All the rest of you w/ no manners or brains - Mindless bashing of others is the reason people have to go to other forums now & certain topics are off limits and censored. Duh!
-- John in S. IN (jsmengel@hotmail.com), May 28, 2001.
Thank you, John! [and the "Duh!" really made me laugh!]
-- Joy F [in So. Wisconsin] (CatFlunky@excite.com), May 29, 2001.
Again, thank you John for putting it so well! I am a Christian and say "welcome" to the forum to Rick. I enjoy reading many of the posts although I don't necessarily agree with them. That's what makes the world interesting. Let's all use our common sense and good manners here, folks! Rick didn't come here with a rude attitude. He just says it like it is! I like that as it saves time. Let's make an effort to be tolerant of others and have a good time learning from on another.
-- Ardie from WI (ardie54965@hotmail.com), May 29, 2001.
Hello, Rick, from a non-christian, non-pagan. I just feel that I am one of the many life forms on this planet. Beyond the Sidewalks is indeed an enjoyable forum. Although they are tolerent of traditional religions, I have found all to be professors of Holy Enviornmentalism. I don't read every post, so there may be exceptions, but all I have seen are among the Sky-Is-Falling!, Save- The-Planet-From-Evil-Humans! ilk. Suggesting that global warming (just one example) is an unproven theory rejected by most climatologists would likely be their version of mortal sin. Sandy
-- Sandy in MN (jpevans_56353@yahoo.com), May 29, 2001.
Rick,Do a web search on eco-village (and search for ecovillage since it's spelled both ways) and check out http://www.gaia.org/ in particular. One type of an eco-village is to buy a large piece of land, divide part of it up into family-sized sub-lots, but keep much of the land as owned in common by all of purchasers of individual lots. Saving the earth may not be your main purpose, but you should be able to learn much about working structures of such villages from those who are using them to save the worlds.
One good idea is to put the family-sized lots where the best building and gardening sites are and them leave the worst parts for woodlands and maybe pasture. The one ecovillage I know of that is forming, only a few 5-acre lots will be sold and something like 80 acres will be held in common. Most of the common land is wooded and too steep to farm or build on. Of course the members could also decide if they wanted to buy other things in common, such as tools and tractors. This type of plan might work well if the rules were spelled out very clearly in the beginning--especially the rules for how to change the rules.
As to your group being religion-based and they way some people have responded, I'm not sure if they think no groups should be religion-based or if they think you should have kept that part secret until people contacted you for details. There is no way you could have asked the question properly without mentioning your beliefs. You were looking for homesteading information within a specific context. So, in my opinion, it was quite fitting for a general homesteading board. Far more fitting than the posts that try to turn every homesteading idea into a sermon--for any religion.
==>paul
-- paul (p@ledgewood-consulting.com), May 29, 2001.
Rick -Welcome... Funny how we all get caught up in stuff... but, I am trying to be good now, as I have been guilty of getting touchy on religion myself. BTS is a neat little forum, very welcoming to pagan views, and the Freedom/Self-reliance one is really politically oriented, but also very tolerant. And, Hoot comes by once in a while on BTS - he IS a great guy!! I still come here, because I get great advice when I have a problem, but I try not to be drawn into the religion stuff so much... My solution is to have a really good laugh over it all...
If you need the addies to the other sites, just email me - I ain't goin' nowhere!
-- Sue Diederich (willow666@rocketmail.com), May 30, 2001.
I occasionally chit-chat with the woman who was my attorney in Ohio. She mentioned one of her clients had her research group land ownership as part of their Y2K preparations. What she determined is their are several ways in which it can be done. The most practical was for people to own their own land. The land to be held in trust (such as woods or a community garden) should be deeded to basically a homeowner's association for administation by them. Normally such an association has an elected board of directors and bylaws to cover changes as they are needed. The association was responsible for settling disputes, such as I want a larger area this year. The worst way was to put the land to be held in common in the names of all of the property owners who will have access to it. It becomes very difficult for anyone to sell out their share. For example, how would their share be appraised?By the way, as I have said before I do not consider myself to be a Christian as I have no strong religious beliefs on anything. I do try to live my life based on The Ten Commandants, which are a pretty good set of working rules for a society. Nothing turns me off quicker than someone trying to tell me I should believe what they believe. To each their own, which makes for a working society. Would anyone really want to live in a place where religion is the dominator of all activities, such as in Afgrahistan (spelling?). As the saying goes, more people had died in the name of God than any other non-natural cause.
-- Ken S. in WC TN (scharabo@aol.com), May 31, 2001.