Ran into this from another board, from Clement of Alexandria.

"The Gnostic does not need to follow ethical codes to be loving because he who is free through Gnosis is really a slave because of love for those who have not yet been able to attain to the freedom of Gnosis. The man of understanding and perspicacity is the Gnostic. And his business is not abstinence from what is evil or the doing of good out of fear. Nor any more is he to do so for hope of promised recompense. But only the doing of good out of love, and for the sake of its own excellence, is to be the Gnostic's choice."

-- Anonymous, May 31, 2001

Answers

Doing good out of love and for no other reason is thankfully not confined to Gnostics. Peace.....

-- Anonymous, May 31, 2001

Love the quote, Clement!

If our Creator sees all we do, think, say and feel, and as they say these are the things we will be judged by, then we should all be striving to have love as the first cause of all these things.

I often fall very short of this goal, but it IS something I work very hard at.

-- Anonymous, June 01, 2001

John sometimes I just wonder if humans can generate love at all. I know we can experience love. If we're sensitive we can see it everywhere. When I watch humans try to be loving or act loving it always sems to come off phoney. Lately I see love as this mighty force that is there for the taking but as for being human we shouldn't take the credit. Course I may be way off here! Ha!....Kirk..P.S. If I thru this thread off course please forgive. Not trying to be argumentative.

-- Anonymous, June 01, 2001

Kirk, I agree, humans are capable of such great and utter cruelty, that I sometimes wonder if they deserve to walk this Earth! Then I realize that love has to come from the heart with no effort involved whatsoever, it is simply putting other peoples' needs, wants, and desires first, to be able to automatically think of others needs before your own, that is love. You must be capable of experiencing empathy at all times to be able to truly love any one, or anything.

Empathy should be the most important emotion, before Greed, Envy, and Hate, the World would sure be a better place!

-- Anonymous, June 01, 2001

Kirk: I didn't take it as argumentative at all. Thats what discussion is about---sharing perspectives.

You say "John sometimes I just wonder if humans can generate love at all. I know we can experience love. If we're sensitive we can see it everywhere. When I watch humans try to be loving or act loving it always sems to come off phoney. Lately I see love as this mighty force that is there for the taking but as for being human we shouldn't take the credit."

Yeah, I know what you mean. You say " When I watch humans try to be loving or act loving it always sems to come off phoney."

As wierd as it sounds, these days I'm thinking thats a part of the "goodness" of humanity because despite of not having the feeling of empathy, compassion etc that might otherwise prompt such actions people "act" loving as "obedience" to a higher spiritual law as they understand it. Dunno, just a thot.

You say "Lately I see love as this mighty force that is there for the taking but as for being human we shouldn't take the credit."

I say, Wise Words! Tnx! I'd only ad tho that it seems wise to nurture and cultivate it within ourselves as best we can.

-- Anonymous, June 01, 2001

"But only the doing of good out of love,".................if we are channels of the love created by the creator, the doing of good would be the only natural thing to do.

-- Anonymous, June 01, 2001

Love just feels good. It's a warm fuzzy. And I don't just relate love to other humans, I love all animals too. Does that count? I can sit in with the pups and just love on them and kiss them for an hour. It makes me feel good, it takes me to another world of happy play time with no cares at all. One must practice I think, to just love from inside. I have to make Steve sit in there with them, he's more "Oh, it's ok, I don't need to." I ask him what he's afraid of, feeling that warm fuzzy? I do think it's something we teach ourselves, to love others and things around us. We have to let ourselves feel it.

-- Anonymous, June 01, 2001

Its good for me to read this stuff. It helps to firm up resolve. As I've mentioned before, my mother in law is visiting for THREE MONTHS! She came from Poland where shes been living for the last 14 yrs. She's 87 yrs old, feisty, and getting senile.

She speaks very little english and then poorly. I guess she was a real harridan when she was younger, manipulative, mean, very "proper" etc and she hasn't lost her "charm". You wanna be kind and understanding yet when you are she takes it as a sign of weakness and uses it to finagle things her way. She tries to play my wife off against me and she doesn't seem to understand the "GUEST in OUR home" concept.

Its really hard to understand the "old country" mentality. They're so wrapped up in propriety and societal expectations its unbelievable. Oh well, its only three months.

-- Anonymous, June 02, 2001

you can do it john, just hang in there. I always found it helpful to act a little touched myself, you know like just sit and have a silly grin on your face and say yes to EVERYTHING. It works, believe me.

-- Anonymous, June 02, 2001

Oh John.......groan. Just remember to come visit us here and we'll help you with group therapy! After three months, though, I know I personally would be heading off to the Betty Ford Clinic... ;-)

-- Anonymous, June 02, 2001

I don't know if I could stand (I mean still be considered a "sane" person) living with my mother-in-law for a month, let alone three! She is from Europe also, France, to be specific, and they are as rude as everyone says they are, the French, I mean!!! Europeans have a different idea of how things should be done around the house, especially from the "old country" Europeans.

-- Anonymous, June 02, 2001

John, you have my sympathy - and if you both live through it, my respect! And that right there is the key word - respect. Doesn't sound like MIL is showing you what you deserve. As you know, Pop lives with us. It wouldn't work if Pop and John didn't have a healthy respect for each other - of course the fact that I am acknowledged as SWMBO by both of them stops any testosterone induced pissing contests! It's gotta be harder than heck to try to get someone who's grasp of the language is slim to understand the Guest in Our house theory, especially with the cultural differences. Your poor wife is probably feeling sandwiched - not an easy time for her, either. Go rent "Throw Mama from the Train" and take out the book "How To Murder Your Mother-in-Law" from the library - might not help your situation, but might make you feel better!! Best wishes, and feel free to rant - we're here for you, buddy!

-- Anonymous, June 02, 2001

Hey John, I think now would be a good time to start construction on that tree house for boys only you've been wanting! Run the phone line and an extension cord up there for the PC and a electric coffee pot, and you're all set! Is MIL afraid of heights? If not, get a rope ladder and then you can pull it up. All you need is a few cases of pork and beans, a can opener and a spoon.

-- Anonymous, June 03, 2001

Listen to Cindy. Cindy knows "In Laws and Outlaws".

Sounds like a plan to me! You can use it as a hunting stand this fall.I have every intentions of making myself a tree house to hunt out of.I've already picked out the spot. Knew an 86 yr old man who had one. Complete with lounge chair and a small wood cookstove.I WANT THE SAME! Except,now that Cindy brought it up, I'll have to figure out internet connection to the back 40 :o) Mine in laws are good so I wouldn't mind having them.Just got back from a visit. Now, my Dad is another matter....he'd only survive a week at my place.... and then,I'd simply have to kill him. And,I'm really pretty peaceable. Really.

Fortunately he's very intelligent,so he knows better than to spend too much time with me.

I tell everyone this and they all laugh,but I really am at least half serious. Same old country,east Euorpean mentality. Nick's granddad was the same way.But,thankfully, his parents weren't.

Make thy a tree house! Pronto.

-- Anonymous, June 03, 2001

Thanks all. The latest from the front. Went to work yesterday for a couple hours. Come home and Granny was hanging out with the goats in their shed, wife so steamed she could hardly speak. It seems granny was figuring she'd moved in permanently---no recall of three months. Thats when the shit hit the fan. Granny, after recriminations, then tears, stalked off to the bedroom, shut the door and went into a 24 hr pout and hunger strike. Wife feeling badly, like the wicked witch of the west for "turning her mother out"(3 months from now).

Today, granny "gets it". Everybody making nice-nice, actually a pleasant day. Hope it stays that way. Whew!

-- Anonymous, June 03, 2001

Oh dear. I hate to be a downer, but I suspect she's just trying to butter up the two of you so that she can stay. She is probably getting worried about being on her own.

It's been years since I lived near Milwaukee, but there used to be lots of people in that area that spoke Polish. If she speaks Polish, you might want to think about looking for some sort of assisted living situation for her in the Milwaukee area. Just a thought, I realize there are probably many factors of which I am unaware!

-- Anonymous, June 03, 2001

Joy: You say "Oh dear. I hate to be a downer, but I suspect she's just trying to butter up the two of you so that she can stay. She is probably getting worried about being on her own."

I thot of that. Time will tell. It understandable why she might feel worried about her future and living alone but you'd think she'd figure out that to stay with relatives she might have to make some adjustments in order to actually be welcome.

Her's is actually kinda an interesting story. Was in Poland during WWII. Hubby, wifes father, was slave labor in one of the more infamous extermination camps. After "liberation" they were moved to a refugee camp in Germany where my wife was born. Lived there for three yrs then moved to states. Finally settled in Chi and he worked as custodian for big Catholic church and she was housekeeper. Thats where my wife was brought up.

I sometimes marvel at the different kindsa lives people live.

-- Anonymous, June 04, 2001