Not a peep about the Bush twins alcohol/legal problems. Not a whimper about how a certain New England Senator has changed the character of the U.S. Senate. No mention of Dubya's dealing with the global climate/warming studies just out. And no mention of the Mariner's being one of the hottest teams in baseball EVER! Sheesh. What's with you guys???????? Don't you read the papers!!???????

Have a nice day...

-- Anonymous, June 08, 2001

Answers

Go Cubs!!

-- Anonymous, June 08, 2001

What? Where? Who? When? Why? Truthfully no,I don't read the paper anymore.Don't get it anymore.Not very informative,anymore.I kept saying I don't believe a tree gave it life for this bunch of crap,so it finally went.

I try to hit some websites but been too busy.

But climate and bush,and defector senator were covered here.And who cares about the antics of some typical teenagers? I really don't. Off limits for me.

Mariners-what's that all about? Sorry I don't follow sports at all anymore.Got bored,disgusted,peeved,who knows which came first.

Did want to discuss Baby bush's environmental flipflops,but have not had time to post it.

And, do want to know what's going on with McVeigh.

Besides,don't you know,we are all busy reading,apparently.

Tired.Tired ,tired, tired. Well those are all my excuses. Next?

-- Anonymous, June 08, 2001

Hmmm. Methinks I saw a post from Ms. Sheepish, oh, a week or so ago, about how she was going to have SO LITTLE time to be on the forum . . . Now she's chastising us for not posting stuff? Hmmmmm.

I've been busy. I could NOT care less about the First Delinquents, I thought we'd said most everything about Jeffords changing the political "balance", and I really dislike organized sports. But go ahead and post something, Sheepish, we'll probably all chime in, sooner or later!

-- Anonymous, June 09, 2001

Well, I heard about the Bush next generation alcoholics on BBC and how the one will get a mandatory jail sentance on her dad's legislation he left in place, but I didn't really care much. My dad used to say 'The nut doesn't fall far from the tree'.

I was more worried about the mass slaying in Osaka at a grade school. I've got a very close friend teaching english over there and I ran home to find my map of Japan and see how close that was to where she is. No where near, thankfully, the teacher killed was not her.

I did hear about Dubya's change on the international housing coalition (probably not the right title) that he did a decline on....in effect saying that no one has an innate right to decent shelter. This puts us in the same boat with Iran, China, and I forget what other country that is real short on human rights.

-- Anonymous, June 09, 2001

what joy said.......plus I am trying to treat my mind better and show it more NICE things :>)

-- Anonymous, June 09, 2001

I think it's great to see that ALL teenagers are the same. I don't think they should get special treatment just because of who their father is. Supposedly we live in a free country, so the Senator has the right to change political rivalries if and when he wants. Just wish more would follow his lead. The Mariners are doing GREAT!!! Makes me proud to be a Washingtonian this year (even though I hate the rain). I hope the McVeigh is killed on Monday as planned and it all goes off without a hitch. I will be glad to see him out of the news. We don't subscribe to a newspaper, nor do we have television reception. I listen to the radio on my way to and from work and get more than enough news. Although I end up listening to the Mariners game in the evenings with my husband. One last thought on the Mariners: it's nice to see a team who supposedly lost all their best players, come together and prove that the rest of them can do it, too. Hope they break even more records before their done.

-- Anonymous, June 09, 2001

Diane, I'm with you. I make a conscious effort to not fill my head with all of the negativity that exists around me. It goes in one ear and out the other. As long as it doesn't have an immediate impact on me such as we have just gone to war or the plague has arrived, I'm not going to read about it. I prefer to surround my life with the positive rather than the negative. Makes me a lot happier person. I don't read the newspaper, rarely watch TV unless it is a sewing, quilting or gardening show and I spend the twenty minute drive getting to my vanpool each day listening to the news radio station in my area. That way I know what is happening in the world and in our country but I don't have to spend much time dwelling on it. That is all the news I care to hear and that includes the traffic report and the weather report in that twenty minutes. If there is something important like the hoof and mouth disease in Europe then I tune in, otherwise, I'd rather dwell on the positive.

-- Anonymous, June 09, 2001

I was just doing a little experimenting....remembering Polly's post about the visiting other forums...

I was just thinking that most of us here don't focus on these issues much.

Personally, every time I hear about the McVeigh stuff, I turn the radio off. I am sickened by the crime, the punishment, the FBI, and mostly by "our" apparent fascination with it/and or the media trying to top their O.J. trial advertising revenues.

We did discuss some of this before, true. On other forums (not nec. on LUSENET, too) these topics are discussed endlessly it seems. We seem to be different.

To what extent do you think any of this impacts your life? Realistically, now...

(p.s. I tossed the Mariners in for a little levity, although I'm hooked on 'em this year, too! They are incredible!)

-- Anonymous, June 09, 2001

Polly...how about the Cubs and the Mariners in the World Series?

-- Anonymous, June 09, 2001

I don't follow any team sports, altho listening to the BBC, I hear a lot of what is going on in the European Cup...:-)

To contribute to our stodgey and boring image, I can report that aside from the bunny that seems to be staying here and plans launched for building him some permanent structures, the two guinea pigs that I adopted (needed rehoming) have increased to seven. I got two females, but one was pregnant, and now there is a litter of furry little bright eyed potatoes walking along behind their mom, wheeping softly en masse...sort of "woot? - woot? - woot?- woot?" as they walk from one side of the cage to the other. They sleep in a multicoloured furry pigpile with their mom and are cute as buttons. They're born fully furred and eyes open and ready to walk (albeit a bit unsteadily) inside of an hour or so. At three days they are already eating fine grass and clover, and trying the commercial pellets as well as nursing.

They don't care much about the Bush fiascos, they don't understand politics,but they are willing to cuddle on my lap while I watch X- Files reruns late at night with my feet up on the sofa after a hard day in the garden. I'm enjoying their company very much.

-- Anonymous, June 09, 2001

"To what extent do you think any of this impacts your life? Realistically, now..."

sheepish, I think that is the WHOLE point for me......I don't want it to impact my life and if I focus on it, it really does. When the Oklahoma city bombing happened I really lost it.....couldn't stop crying for weeks. It was so obvious to me that this really sick boy who could have been my son, was believing all this militia shit and actually thought he was at WAR with his own country. We were having violence in our own neighborhood with the militia killing our dogs and cutting Amish fences, painting really ugly stuff on their houses, just hateful. I made a decision that unless it was IN MY FACE I was no longer going to give it space in my head. Let down my guard a little and then Littleton happened. I am POWERLESS over all this garbage but I can keep my own peace and do the next right thing as I understand it.

Julie, I want a guinea pig again!!! I had totally forgotten all the really neat things about them. We always had them when the kids were home and I really miss the little rascals and their whistles. Never had babies, how cool.

-- Anonymous, June 09, 2001

Cubs in the world series? Hoo-hoo, ha, ha ha!! That's a good one!! We don't DO that! We do real well in the early season, then go to hell in a handbasket, usually around the first of July. If it happened any other way, we wouldn't know how to act. It's no stress baseball - we KNOW we aren't gonna make the playoffs, so we just enjoy the games! You know - the overpriced hot dogs and peanuts!

I do read the newspapers - Pop says I only read the funnies and Abby, but I do read some of the "news" - only to the extent that I can stand it. I don't read McVeigh, the Bush twins or man's inhumanity to man. I did read Jefford's - the man didn't "switch to the other party", he went independant; which resulted in a shift in the balance of power. I wish all politicians were independants. I wouldn't have a TV in the house if it were up to me. Tell Hubby that's why he's stressed and depressed - 'cause he watches all those "news" shows. I already know (some) people are stupid and greedy and would sell their grandma for a toke, I'm just smart enough not to dwell on it!

-- Anonymous, June 09, 2001

Ya know if the news was reported correctly and honestly.. I would probably get it... the local paper which I see at work can't get simple meetings reported correctly... especially the ones I attend.. so until then....

TV is the same... and I have been things to do...

-- Anonymous, June 09, 2001

We don't even have time to read every post on this forum, let alone keep up with the "news". When things are slow on the forum, I have thought about posting questions like "Is the death penalty hypocritical" or "Why am I not worried about going to hell, given that I haven't found Jesus" or "Do you really grasp the concept of infinity" or "So what do you make of Hoot's withdrawal from CS" but then I realise that I may not log on again for days, so it wouldn't be a really lively discussion! Then I could talk about England's streak of 5 wins in a row (soccer) and their World Cup chances - might not interest too many of you!

I'll stick to talking about the garden and the animals for the most part, simply because that's what I'm doing almost all the time. We left "civilization" to get away from politics, consumption, regulations, taxes and the media, so I find a refuge in our boringness! I'll vote to keep it this way.

Semi-seriously, I also think we'd agree on most things, and are all so nice that we wouldn't make waves anyway!

-- Anonymous, June 09, 2001

I just don't understand why a man on deathrow, who kills another man on deathrow has to go to trial? Why should all our taxpaying money go into this? What are they going to do? Kill him, revive him, then kill him again for killing a man that they plannned on killing anyway?

-- Anonymous, June 09, 2001

Well,since sheepish wants controversial,here goes.....I'm very interested in McVeigh.Why?Maybe bc Nick retired from Terre Haute and tells me stories abt there, the new death chamber, lot's of things.

Maybe bc I believe a probably decent but very misguided dupe who,yes could have been my stepson,is being put to death. Maybe bc it is the first fed. execution in 30+ yrs and it has to be this one? Maybe bc the government is being stupid again in following thru with this.

Papers lost than found? You think that's something new? Don't you know when the administration says,jump,the FBI says how high? You honestly think those papers were 'accidently' withheld then just 'miraculously' showed up at a convenient time? Then you don't know the FBI. Don't read this,Jim,I'm bitching and have no solutions to offer. Sorry.

Maybe bc McVeigh was and still is being equally stupid.So two stupids make a disaster.

I can understand him choosing this option,tho,what man his age wants to spend the rest of his life in jail? Which is exactly why he should.Far worse punishment for what he did.Collateral damage,my ass...and eye for an eye?...not how his bunch did it.He did not target the one's responsible,he went after innocents. You sure would feel one hell of alot of rightous anger if it was your kid or wife of son or daughter that got blown up.you know you would.

It's definitely not bc I don't believe in the death penalty bc I do.There are plenty of inmates there who deserve the ultimate penalty.

Let see...there's the biker type who killed his sister,her husband and all their kids bc ...hey...she wouldn't let him stay there.It was all her fault,but...he has forgiven her. Fry him!

Then there's the big dumb guy who sexually abused and then tortured to death dozens of little boys.How is this known? He made tapes of it so he could view it over and over. Lethal injection is too good for him.Hang him high!

Unsalvagable sociopaths.

But let McVeigh rot in jail so he has lots of time to think about what he did. He will change his mind.

Opinionated and controversial enough for you? Well,now you know I'm not all that liberal,either. Nor all that peaceable.

-- Anonymous, June 10, 2001

sharon, thanks for sharon. Really. Plus I don't think a lot of folks here are really that liberal, anyway. So that doesn't surprise me.

I think if our prisons weren't so overcrowded with folks tossed in there because we can't come up with some better societal solutions to problems, we would have room to house all the really appropriate criminals. Then we could house capital offenders for life. But make 'em work for their keep. But what do I know? That's liberal! ;-)

Politics is very interesting to me and I keep an eye on it. How much that really personally affects me, though, varies. Like the tax rebate. That's personal...I get a check. If I wanted an abortion, that's personal. If Trent Lott loses status in the Senate, ho-hum.

Now Hoot leaving CS is news! I guess I don't get around much anymore.

btw, Mariners lost last night...

-- Anonymous, June 10, 2001

I finally found the thread about Hoot. I had to quit reading his posts because he so often forgets to put in paragraphs, and then I can't read it!

Anyway, I think he's just taking a break. He's done it before, presumably he'll do it again. I know he's had health problems -- probably just needs to take a break. From what I read, he didn't say he was leaving and never coming back.

-- Anonymous, June 10, 2001

Here's my contribution for the day to our sharing of current events:

On (NPR) Michael Feldmand's comedy show this weekend, it was announced that Sec of Defense Donald Rumsfield has discovered a perfectly cost-effective way to implement the Star Wars defense system! During the Rapture, departing born-again Christians will volunteer to deflect incoming enemy missiles!

Should make everybody happy! :)

-- Anonymous, June 10, 2001

My views on the death penalty are simple. I don't think murder is good.

-- Anonymous, June 10, 2001

Wow

Who wrote that tirade? It sure wasn't me! Diane did it,I bet.Yeah,she's gettin' even for me gettin' even. This feud could go on forever.

Well...alright... I confess..I really did write it.

And here's more!

OK Kim and Sheepish.Do you feel it's ok to abort a fetus if a woman makes that choice but not OK put a sociopath to death? What is the difference?

Yep,playing devil's advocate.

I've found my bible thumping friends who are anti choice and pro dealth penalty to be hypocritical. I've found my bleeding heart friends who are pro choice and anti death penalty to be equally hypocritical. I take the most unpopular position of being both pro choice and pro death penalty,in order to be,at the very least,consistant.

And what's with this... a bunch of old guys (and old women past reproductive age) telling younger women what they should do about women's reproduction issues,anyway? What real right to a say in it do you have if it can't affect you directly? That has always bugged me,too.

Let women decide that particular issue among themselves.Men,bud out.Now I'll get to hear how you contribute the sperm.Yeah yeah yeah,big deal.Fun for you. Alot of responsibility for the woman. No comparison.

Well apparently I'm full of it,this AM.

Mouthy lately,aren't I?

-- Anonymous, June 11, 2001

Well, I feel the need to say something about this pro life pro choice business; If men where the ones to conceive,there would not even be a debate,you could walk in to any store and buy an abortion pill on demand. Daryll

-- Anonymous, June 11, 2001

Sharon, the classic answer is based on the question, "how do you define life?" If one says that life begins at conception, then abortion could be defined as taking a life. If however, one believes that viability (or some similar measure) is when life begins, then it can be argued that abortion is not taking a life. Thus, the death penalty (which would be hard to argue is *not* taking a life, even if the person is retarded, etc.,) is a different issue than abortion.

One problem (among many) with abortion, is that if viability is the benchmark, there are serious concerns as medical science gets better and better at sustaining the lives of premature babies. Could it be that in one hospital, doctors are trying to save the life of a five- month-old in one room, and aborting a five-month-old fetus in another?

I'm for educating women (and men, surely, too) to having the responsibility for making intelligent and heartfelt choices regarding their lives, including family planning. Family and social education as to the responsibility of having children is the critical piece. I also think having affordable and accessible birth control available is important.

I think folks just don't really want to deal with these issues either individually or in our society. Most would certainly don't want to deal with the consequences of unwanted pregnancies. Unfortunately, when there are inevitable consequences due to lack or planning, education, or just failed birth control, the emotional focus kicks in.

Regarding hypocrisy, why are some anti-abortion folks against birth control?

-- Anonymous, June 11, 2001

Responding to Sharon's question: (Listen, whippersnapper, I'm giving my three cents even if I AM past my baby-making days!)

The reason its a personal decision, and no business of the government, is because we all VIEW and FEEL these things differently, being as we're all different. For me personally, no, it isnt hypocritcal at all, but that is because an early term abortion is not, to me, killing a human being, It's certainly killing a potential human being, but to me that's a big difference. Intellectually and emotionally TO ME it isn't any more murder than is "spilling seed upon the ground" as the bible prohibits, or any method of conception prevention (which are still better choices, because they involve the least trauma overall). I'm sure you're aware that women have been aborting fetuses since time immemorial to control the size of their families, and until modern times how to safely do so was common knowledge, passed down from mothers to daughters. Certainly it was usually done in secret; oftentimes it is better that the men in one's life not be involved in such a decision. She is the one who bears the responsibility after all.

If a woman, like you Sharon apparently, FEEL that a fertilized egg is a human being, then she should decidedly NOT ever have an abortion, because it would feel WRONG, and possibly affect her the rest of her life perhaps as much as it would have to carry full term. That is why it IS a choice, and up to the woman involved to decide. We are all unique individuals, and none of these choices deserves to be judged as wrong by others, and most certainly not the government.

I'll take my cane and teeter off the podium now.........:)

-- Anonymous, June 11, 2001

Cool...good answers....hey glad I brought this up after all! Don't worry you old crotchety decrepit E.M. I'm well on my way to joining you! Hey,aren't we abt the same age? Oh No! Which is another thread that I need to start.

But,enough birth control pills taken can supposedly be used to have a abortion.That's what's behind it.Read that locally.

So what's new about that? Like E.M. said, it's been done for eons using herbs.Go figure.

Either I gotta go and will talk to you all abt. this later or I'm going to have to start hiding out and whispering like diane....I'll be right there,Nick.... really,I'm right behind you ... really...

-- Anonymous, June 11, 2001

Looks like EM pretty well covered the abortion angle, so I chip in with my 2 cents regarding the death penalty.

The first reason why I don't believe in the death penalty is because I don't trust the government to impose it in a fair manner. Just take a look at Illinois, the governor there declared a moritorium on executions when he discovered that there were more death row inmates were later found innocent than were executed.

Even if we were 100% certain that every death row inmate was guilty, I still would not be in favor of the death penalty. Quite frankly, I think that death is too good for them. Do you really think that Tim McVeigh was punished this morning? He got exactly what he wanted, to go out as a martyr to the cause. The last thing he wanted to do was to spend the next 60+ years rotting in the pen. My friend Oz has a great quote: "If you kill them, they don't learn anything". Let's quit jailing everyone who gets caught selling a joint and save the prisions for the real criminals!

Climbing off the soapbox to go eat lunch! :-)

-- Anonymous, June 11, 2001

I am NOT going to get on my soapbox,I am NOT going to get on my soapbox, but- I have NO patience for any of these ProLife, anti- abortionists who judge women for aborting unwanted pregnancies while there are thousands upon thousands of uncared-for children languishing in foster care here in our own country- the richest country in the world which has ample resources to care for every single child in it, were we to choose to do so. I sincerely hope that every one of those PL/AA activists are adoptive parents of one or more foster kids, crack babies, special needs child, etc. And gee, I wonder how many of these folks also oppose sex education in the classroom, let alone at home. I DO NOT condone abortion as a means of birth control, but let's get real here- people do have unprotected sex, it does occassionally result in unwanted pregnancies, so what are we going to do? Force some poor kid to have a child for which she has neither the means nor the desire to care for? And which is the greater evil, to abort the pregnancy or allow another unwanted child to enter a world in which it might suffer a fate far worse and more tragic than the abortion would have been in the first place? Obviously there is no easy answer, but my point is, there's a lot of hypocrisy in the PL/AA camps. I'd like to see every child, in this country at least, for starters, then we'll talk about the rest of the world, getting 3 square meals a day, living in a safe environment, having at least one caring parent or other relative around; suitable clothing to wear; and getting an education and proper medical care when needed. When we have reached the point that we can properly care for all the kids who have ALREADY been born in this country, THEN I'll talk about anti-abortion. oops, sorry, getting down off the box now.

-- Anonymous, June 11, 2001

Yeah - what Elizabeth said!

Elizabeth, if you need help totin' that soapbox around, I'm willing to volunteer as a roadie!

-- Anonymous, June 11, 2001

Wow, this thread changed tone.....wrong place for me to by.

-- Anonymous, June 11, 2001

Is anyone else getting 'pinged' trying to read this thread? I came on today to check out what people were discussing and got pinged no less than 8 times trying to just read the new posts. I likewise got pinged all over the place on the 'What's the Matter with People' thread, but not on any others.

I got a little nervous after the most recent conflict with whatever anonymous brave sort on CS was once again being paranoid maximus and bad mouthing this board, when all the slightly 'controversial' subjects started pinging off my firewall so hard I could hardly go back to the thread without being pinged off again.

-- Anonymous, June 11, 2001

diane, we're just expressing opinions, although some of us come across a little stronger than others. Why don't you help even things out and give us your point of view, that is if you're comfortable doing that. :)

Switching back to a boring subject...What sort of crack were the NFL owners smoking when they agreed to this realignment scheme?! They put Indianapolis in the AFC South along with Houston, Jacksonville, and Tennessee. Meanwhile, Miami is in the AFC East. Last time I checked, Indiana was North of the Mason-Dixon Line! At least they didn't mess up the NFC Central (now called NFC North) too badly, or else I would have had to seriously hurt someone! Go Lions!

-- Anonymous, June 11, 2001

Sherri, I read the posts and felt very sad. No ones opinions offend me, just the generalizations and judgmental attitudes. There are strong feelings on both side of the issue of abortion. I have so enjoyed this forum up until now because even though we had a great diversity of opinions, no one really slammed anyone. I have been a very proactive person when it comes to the abortion issue, first for many years as a Buddhist and then the past 18 as a Christian.I was never a person to stand around a abortion clinic and yell, but tryed to provide alternatives and a helping hand. The government makes it very difficult for people to adopt the special needs children. My husband and I have offered to adopt so many children. To me killing of any kind is wrong and will bring very bad karma to the people involved. I was terribly sad today over the execution and the fact that so many were so vengeful that they even got together to watch it. In my opinion hate begots hate. If this forum is going to become like countryside where every issue becomes a "judgment" I am out of here. I just want to have fun and be able to be who I am without a lot of ugliness. At CS it is pretty easy to avoid the ugly stuff but we really drift a lot here and this one changed a lot real fast.

-- Anonymous, June 11, 2001

I just read what I wrote and it sounds like I think everyone was judgmental and that was not what I intended. I found EM and yours and others very helpful and not judgmental of others. As we get more and more new people here you have to admit the flavor is changing. As all good things change eventually, my fears are that this one has taken a turn that leaves me feeling uncomfortable to participate. There have been a lot of unkind remarks made about Christians and witnessing and I have never responded because I really knew what the motivation was and that so many here had been offended by the happenings on the other forum. Well, back to the garden....blessings to all in love.

-- Anonymous, June 11, 2001

diane: I really hope I didn't make you feel bad when I reminded people not to prosyletize or witness on the spirituality thread. I wasn't even thinking of you at all when I posted that comment. I was concerned that lurkers might feel the need to "do their thing" on that thread so I was trying to nip it in the bud before it even started. I hope that didn't cause you to feel like I was picking on you because I wasn't - It did seem like you didn't post quite as much to the forum after that thread so I'm concerned that my comment did upset you. I hope you won't leave because I really value your input on this forum. :-)

-- Anonymous, June 11, 2001

Oh dear Diane, please don't be sad..........and don't even think of leaving us......this place would absolutely not work for me if you weren't here, and I mean that.

Of course I don't know exactly what it was that upset you so; its always so hard to tell how people will react to things. I was terrified when I put that silly thing about the Star Wars that it would hurt you.....but hoped it wouldnt, cuz I thought it was funny, and you know me well enough that I at least try to be careful not to judge, but I had an excuse handy! [my youngest daughter, who is according to even her teenage friends, the 'tastelessness monitor' in any gathering.......they can tell from the look on her face if they have gone 'over'....was in Pittsburgh when in posted this! I cannot be trusted to have any tasteless judgement of my own!]

Anyway, its so doggone seldom one gets to have an intelligent, sensitive conversation about this controversial topic with an out of the closet Christian! Someone who doesnt go ballistic with defensiveness........you and sheepish and polly (I think, sorry polly dear, I hope I'm right about you being a christian) etc.......on this forum there are many........and it has truly restored my faith that there are Christians out there who THINK, and question, and love unconditionally. Hey, Diane, we love ya!

Another thing that might help.......you know it took me YEARS AND YEARS AND YEARS to get this diplomatic and able to see things from other' perspectives. Not that I don't totally screw up still quite often, but I have made great strides.........but you know I remember well how I "used to was"........) and lotsa youngsters, and olders, havnent had a chance to get enough practice in yet. .....Maybe give em a little slack.......and lotsa prayers.......

Blessings,

-- Anonymous, June 11, 2001

Well, I started this, so I guess I'll jump back in. The point of the post was about how we *don't* tend to discuss these things very much. It migrated over to a discussion that shows we do I guess! I certainly didn't wish to inspire any infighting here. If I have, I most sincerely apologize. My intention was more or less to demonstrate that we are all pretty tolerant of each other's opinions. Hmmmm.

I don't know about you guys, but I find it hard not to answer a question when it is addressed to me personally. However, in the interest of keeping the peace here, maybe we should answer direct questions that sound controversial via email instead. Would that help? What do you think?

Remember, I said I personally wanted to talk about things as I would speak to my next door neighbors, etc. I can discuss controversial things with them (if appropriate...important point) without dissing them and vice versa. It is my goal to be that civil here as well.

And talk about thread drift. Sheesh. I'm a moron. Sorry.

-- Anonymous, June 11, 2001

Julie, I'm a computer "doofus", what is being "pinged" mean? I don't have a clue, although I had a hard time bringing up some threads here and on CSF, took forever!

Sorry Sheepish, don't have the energy today to be cantankerous and controversial!

-- Anonymous, June 11, 2001

Dear sweet??? Jim, I don't even know what you are talking about. Nothing you have ever said here has offended me, in fact until today nothing anyone has said has offended me. Earthmama was right, I lost perspective and forgot about cutting some slack............sorry :>), were would I go anyway??? Godless goatwoman that I am?? lol.. I was pretty much driven out of NOW because of my unwillingness to support abortion, out of my church for not being willing to judge those who did, etc. etc................just one more "stranger in a strange land" I think any time we make broad generalizations about any group of people, we had better really know what we are talking about.

-- Anonymous, June 11, 2001

That sounds to me like NOW's loss, Diane. It's National Organization for Women, not National Organization for Women of a Particular Perspective. Yeah, I know. It's not.

Okay, I'm going to shut up on this thread and go hang out on the Grand Canyon one I just started.

-- Anonymous, June 11, 2001

sheepish, please don't shut up! WHAT'S GOING ON HERE???????

-- Anonymous, June 11, 2001

Well diane,sheepish and earthmamma,since I'm the opinionated agitator,self identified,I'll respond as best I can:

diane those are my true personal opinions.I am also who I am, and cannot nor will not, be someone else bc it makes someone uncomfortable.However I rarely post such things publically specifically bc they are so controversial.But I make no apologies for my thoughts.I hope you are OK with that,but if not,so be it.

Sheepish wondered abt.controversial topics.I posted this time to see how it would go.To see if we could talk abt such things freely.A test run,so to speak. Don't think we can w/o offending someone.I'll keep it to private conversations,as I have in the past.Silence can be golden.

Hey folks,I did say I was playing devil's advocate.Ah well...no big deal.

-- Anonymous, June 11, 2001

Oh julie.....I sometimes have gotten 2 dozen or more pings from the same 5 or so sources.No idea what's going on.I've had things I type in here deleted when I try to post lately too and that's what was going on over on CS,too,bf I left. Make your own conclusions.

Annie..pings are what you get with your zonealarm firewall that tell you who's trying to access your computer.Maybe Jay will explain it better.

-- Anonymous, June 11, 2001

Julie: I haven't had any notification from ZoneAlarm about any pinging so I don't think this thread is the cause. Are you using ZoneAlarm? Can you tell if the pings are coming from the same IP address?

-- Anonymous, June 11, 2001

Sharon: You've actually had some of your posts DELETED on our forum?!?!?!?!?!?!?

If that's the case then my password to the administrative part of this forum has been compromised. PLEASE tell me that's not what you meant!

-- Anonymous, June 11, 2001

sharon, wait a minute....nothing you said was judgmental...you stated your opinion...I had no problem with your opinion at all. Please let's not go there. I said I was being over sensitive, I really felt Elizabeth's post was condemning and judgmental of people who opposed abortion. She lumped us all together and in my opinion made some pretty ugly generalizations. You and I have been having a lot of fun here, as up to now most of us have. I probably am more sensitive about the abortion issue than any other "issue" I can think of.

My rights as a nurse were totally violated when I showed up for work as a labor and delivery charge nurse and found a good "freind" of one of the doctors didn't want to go to the abortion clinic so he was doing it on my floor. I had been hired with the understanding that I would not participate in abortion. The "baby" was alive when it was born and it was one of the worse days of my life. It was a five month pregnancy, and I was in the special care nursery when another Christian nurse brought it to me. I have delivered 3 month pregnancies.......they are ALIVE, complete and perfect.

I am very sorry you felt it was aimed at you. If I could take it all back and just not have posted for a few days until I cooled off I would. This medium can be very difficult, which is why I have tryed so very hard to stay away from "controversial".

It should be possible for us to continue to have very divergent opinions and still be respectful of each other. I love "devil's advocates" and in a lot of areas I happen to be one. hugs

-- Anonymous, June 11, 2001

diane-no problem with me either way,like I said. Don't worry.But I know I can get feisty and I can get obnoxoius.I'm human.I just accept that and move on. Since I was pretty outspoken,I thought it must have been me. Sorry to misunderstand.I will apologize for that.

And I do understand how you feel.How horrible for you to go thru that.That should not have been done,when you made it clear where you stood. I applaud you taking such a stand on your personal beliefs.Everyone needs to make their own informed decision like that.

It's always been a tough call for me too,bc I have tremendous regard for life,all life.So I've had to try to find a way thru that trecherous path.I do respect your feelings on it,even if I've made a different decision.I could have easily gone the other path,to tell the truth. No easy answers there,that's why it's so controversial. I think what's good abt what has been said is that we all have to find our own path. And then,live with it.

Thanks for taking the time to explain, tho.

Jim,what I told you about already, was what I meant.It's done WHILE I'm posting,not after.So it's from home here.I guess. Same old, same old.

OH my, what did I start???? Sorry,sorry,sorry!

-- Anonymous, June 11, 2001

Oh ...and sheepish? Might want to change the title of this post.Apparently,we're not boring after all. :o)

-- Anonymous, June 11, 2001

WHEW! I went so far as to change my admin password a little while ago thinking that I had been compromised! I'm glad to know that's not the case!

OK, I guess we all had some misunderstandings today. Lets all head for our individual beds, get some sleep, and start anew tomorrow. How does that sound?

What a day! :-D

-- Anonymous, June 11, 2001

'Night, Jim. 'Night all. (am I trapped in an episode of the Waltons?)

-- Anonymous, June 12, 2001

Aw, do we have to go to our individual beds? :-P No fun!

(Lurking on my own post....)

nite John Boy!

-- Anonymous, June 12, 2001

Hey Sharon, I got pinged by "Wedge Word Productions" while I was on here yesterday. I searched and there is nothing on them on the net. They tried 3 times but it's a no go! They were trying to do more than pinging I think.

-- Anonymous, June 12, 2001

Yeah Cindy -It does tend to make you suspicious,given how easy it is to hack someone and use their computer like it's your own.I had no idea about all of that.Know a little more,now. I guess that's good but I sometimes think I would have liked to stay in my little Kentucky bubble too,some days. People really dishearten me,sometimes.Guess I'll go talk to Kirk.

Elizabeth,just in case,I now read what you wrote and I thought it fine.No worse than me! Since I started it,I thought I'd better stick up for you a little.

I am very distressed for the children who don't have even one decent parent, and see their future as likely menaces to society. When Nick still worked, he said one time about making sure we take care of what's here now,as our first priority and concern,so they don't end up being taken care of by him in prison, after we (society) have failed them, as children....

I'm a person who always dragged home strays..and there are many times I wanted to drag home a half grown kid or two. Nick nixed that,which is probably for the best,since I really didn't have the health to be dealing with all that. Good thing I got him around to remind me that I'm just not superwoman, afterall :o)

diane..I'm sure I was touchy yesterday,too.I am very upset over the execution. Deep inside,I know this was a terribe,terrible wrong done. This one really got to me. Sometimes things that don't impact you directly still affect you tremendously. At least, E.M., you are off the hook. Now I hate Bush. Hate,hate hate,hate. One more reason to despise the snake.I really have tried to keep an open mind re: our president.Mind now closed up tight.

Don't think that helped,tho.

-- Anonymous, June 12, 2001

Elizabeth, sorry.........I read your post again today and realized you made some really valid points. When my innermost being is being "pinged" by events in the world I should know better to respond to "touchy" issues.

After visiting the "age" thread, once again I am seeing the generational gap. Most of you don't remember what it was like before in the "dark ages" before reliable birth control methods were available. Some historical perspective would probably help a very "tender" issue. My granny was born in 1900. During the depression she had an abortion. Hunger and dispair were a motivational factor for a lot of women then. It was a private issue then between doctor and patient. She told me that to the best of her knowledge there were no "laws" on the books then. Was she sorry....yes. I was in nurse's training in a Catholic Hospital during the early 60's. I worked my way through the last two years by working extra shifts on weekends in the emergency room. A young catholic girlfriend came in and died from a botched abortion done in the back alley "butcher shop" that was the only place a scared woman could get an abortion in this country after it became against the law. I also was with a mother of 6 who died as a result of one of the abortions.

After Roe vs Wade here in my state we voted. I voted for the legalization of abortion because I felt if my scared and dispairing sisters were going to get them anyway, I wanted them to have a safe, clean place to get it done. I never in my wildest dreams thought we would have what we have today. Abortion on demand as a form of birth control.

When I stood in that special care nursery trying to save this tiny baby (yes...my job right...saving life??) and watching my dear Christian friend totally disintegrate because she had "killed" (she had been told the baby was dead) I saw my karma coming back to me. This was, to me, the result of my vote. Right or wrong, that was how I felt at the time. We both were pretty much railroaded out of that hospital for that incident.....

I have no answers, once again more answers than questions. Life is way too complex at times for me to have a clue as to what is the next right thing. Guess I will go plant the bean seed sharon sent me...the soil is finally warm here. blessings and love to all........

-- Anonymous, June 12, 2001

Diane-now I really,really understand.Saw young women getting 3&4 abortions.Not to mention what it's doing to their bodies.One I understand,maybe even a mistake twice I can still buy it.After that,I have a problem.

No longer can accept the when does life start argument,either.

Moot now.Besides,life is in everything,even the air we breath.Of course it's life.

Decision is like when someone chooses to eat meat or not.Or will help an old person end their life or not.It's abt personal choices and freedoms. Decisions made by each of us at time time needed, that we each then have to live with.

E.M. you are wrong as it applies to me.I can believe it is life and still make my personal choice abt. that.Just like I do when I take a deer's life.I make the choice for whatever complicated and thought out reason, then live with it. I don't make any of those decisions lightly. My choice on that,as well. Can you understand? Not arguing,just don't quite see it the same.

diane -I've stayed off forums since the beginning of the week,not bc of anything you said but bc of events Monday AM. I'll email you.

-- Anonymous, June 14, 2001

Diane,

I'm sorry I did not read your post of the 11th all the way thru before this morning. I was kinda avoiding this thread too, when I saw a couple of the posts. All I saw was the pinging thing and I was getting pinged at the same time, so I posted about only that.

I teared up when I read post this morning. I'm so sorry you had to go thru that, I can not even imagine in my worst dreams something like that. I'm pretty much speechless, it really tore me up. I think you are a very strong person to even be able to speak about it now. Being a nurse would have to be one of the hardest jobs in the world. I don't know, I quess I just wanted to say I care about you, and thank you for giving yourself to be a nurse to serve others, it's a very hard calling. I love ya sweetie.

-- Anonymous, June 15, 2001