The Gospel of Jesus Christ - El Evangelio del Cristo

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I am not here to argue with anyone, nor am I here to attack anyone of what faith they choose to follow, but I am here to share with you something which should have been given here at this forum a long time ago.

The Roman Catholic Church has claimed to be the true church of the world, and indeed there have been a few men on Saint Peter's Chair who have proclaimed the Truth of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, yet at the same time there have been many men who were not men of God at all, and usurped the authority of the Romish church for their own glory, to establish themselves high above other men, and to proclaim their "truths", making the church separated from the original Truth of the Lord further and further, and today we see it succumbing to the ways of the world, which is also a good description in the Bible, God's Word, by the way, of "spiritual fornication", or, in other words, conforming oneself to a particular worldly way which violates what the Lord has given.

Pope John Paul II has been correct in stating that the church should not have homosexual ministers in its domain, yet at the same time his words remain frivolous in the ears of men who establish themselves in sin. What does the Lord tell us of sin? Well, He clearly told Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden what would happen to them if they partook of the fruit on the Tree of Life, which would kill them. Yet, Satan came about as the serpent and, rolling the ball in the history of humanity, said, "You will NOT surely die". Therefore, when Eve and Adam partook of the fruit of the Tree of Life, they lost their lives, so what could it take for us to gain salvation? The Roman Catholic church teaches of so many penances which one can have, and indulgences, etc, and other sorts of issues introduced by men regarding their ability to reach God. One thing which makes Christianity, not a religion at all, different than religion is that God reaches down to man. In religion, men try to reach God. Yet, the best description is God HAS reached man, and in religion, men ARE trying to reach God. The Truth remains clear, however, and God told us "For by GRACE are ye saved through FAITH; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast." (cf. Ephesians 2:8-9). If this is the case, then why does the Roman Catholic church try to make everything difficult in thinking it has the ability to reach God, especially through another man (such as the Vicar of Christ, if that is even a legal title for him), and think he can reach God's level? I pray for the soul of the man or men who introduced such a blasphemous lie into the church, diverting it from its foundation, for now I see how those men have mislead over a billion people in the world, not to say that there are not born-again Catholics, because there are many Catholics who know the Truth, and we will get to the message of the Truth which God has given us in just a moment here. But allow me to make null and void the subject of Mary as co-redeemer through this simple statement given to us by God Himself in the flesh (namely Jesus Christ): I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life: NO MAN cometh unto the Father, BUT BY ME. (cf. John 14:6). The message which Jesus gives us is very clear. Scripture cannot contradict itself, so therefore the Roman Catholic bible cannot be valid when there are seven extra books added, such as I and II Esdras, Tobit, etc, which have no dealing with original Scripture (and if you want information, there are plenty of men, particularly in Israel, who have gone to great lengths to find this information out, and moreover, II Timothy 3:16 tells us that ALL Scripture is divinely inspired by the Holy Spirit of God, meaning that God supernaturally guided each man who wrote the 60 books of the Bible with His Holy Spirit, and therefore the added books of the Roman Catholic book cannot contradict Scripture, as it clearly does if you read it carefully and take such Scripture as John 14:6 and John 2:4-5, Mary's own statement to you about what you should do).

But the message is not only to show you what has happened in the Roman Catholic church with those various men who have so conveniently perverted Scripture with their own doctrine, having a little "fun" with their "power" as the successor of Saint Peter, who never really founded any church. Scripture tells us that Peter was the head over in Jerusalem, and Saint PAUL dealt with the Romans (i.e. his letter to the church in Rome, which had nothing to do with Roman Catholicism during that time, and there was no such thing as a "vicar of Christ", nor a "pope", and Greek translations, which derive from the OLD Greek, not the NEW Greek, tell us the difference between Peter being called little rock, or, pebble, a part of the ROCK, Jesus, who is the Church. In other words, the mistranslation of Matthew 16:18-19 was actually trying to say that Peter was apart of the Body of Christ, little pebble, and Jesus was referring to Himself, the Lord God in the flesh, as being the Rock upon which the Church is built. If God built His Church upon Peter, a sinful man (and a great coward), then I am a dead man and cannot rely on God's promises in the Bible by faith because He has given His authority to sinful man, and therefore, either religion, reaching God, is truth, or Christianity, God reaching man, is true. There cannot be an in-between; or, as was clearly put in Jeremiah, I believe, let your yea be yea, and your nay, nay. Moreover, Matthew 16:17 says for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but My Father which is in heaven. In other words, God, through His Holy Spirit, showed Peter things which the Lord was telling us through His Second Person in the Holy Trinity, Jesus Christ, or, God in the flesh (and Jesus is called the Son of God only because He is the Ultimate Example of how we must live in following the Father, God, through Jesus Christ, by the power of His Holy Spirit: One God in Three Persons).

So therefore, if the Roman Catholic church cannot reach God because of the sin which is infested within its borders, how can we be saved? Well, do not continue with Plan A, which is trying to work your way to heaven, because it will NEVER WORK - that is a guarantee. However, you can go by Plan B, which is: accept the free gift God has given you in pardoning ALL sins, past, present, and future (and He is God, do you not think He has the ability to do that if He wants to do it?) through His only begotten Son, Jesus Christ, or, Himself in flesh, and repent (or, literally, make a U-turn) from your former ways and follow Jesus, knowing that no matter how many times you fail, He has already covered it with His blood.

Jesus told us in John 8:36 that whom the Son sets free will be free indeed, which is an automatic promise and guarantee from the Lord God Himself. Mary cannot do anything for you, for how can a woman whose flesh and blood matches that of our own do anything for us? But wait a minute, you might say, Jesus Himself lived in flesh and blood, and was Mary's son, so what do you make of that, eh??? Well, the Spirit has been telling you throughout this message the fact that it is GOD HIMSELF IN THE FLESH, which means, God came down to earth in flesh, the only perfect human being (and probably a remake of what Adam's genes were like, although do not get the impression that He was Adam, for that is not so at all, but had the perfect DNA structure, which He formed inside of Mary's womb) and only in the way of God COMING DOWN TO US (notice that quality trait of Christianity?) can we be saved. WE CANNOT REACH GOD ON OUR OWN ABILITY, FOR WE WILL ULTIMATELY DIE AND PERISH UTTERLY! There is the beautiful message, we do not have to do anything except receive Jesus Christ in our hearts as Lord God and Saviour. The Roman Catholic church has not been teaching this, but now it is time to show what the Pope has not been showing, or, at least perhaps has touched on it yet never expounded on the subject as he should have, being a man in a position of high authority, and God will hold him accountable for not sharing the Truth with you as he should have done so. However, you do not need any man to take you to the Lord. God split the veil in the temple from TOP TO BOTTOM, signifying He CAME DOWN TO US, and also signifying that there was no more need for any PRIEST to come into the curtain and sacrifice to God any lamb, for the LAMB OF GOD, or, GOD HIMSELF, paid the price for US! Therefore, we can boldly come to the Throne of Grace through Jesus Christ our Lord God and Saviour to the Father God Himself, or, in other words, we are coming to God Himself naturally, for He exists in Three Persons simultaneously, each with a separate personality, yet all One God. Can we comprehend this? Of course not, but God never asked you to do that which you cannot do, to touch at an intangible, but God asked you to receive His Son as God and Saviour, or, in other words, receive Himself in your hearts, but never forget that God is working in the Holy Trinity, and recognise the beauty of His Holiness in how He works, for He does it for our sakes. All He wants you to do is accept Jesus Christ as your Lord God and Saviour, and with that, you will be born-again, or, in other words, God's Holy Spirit Himself has come into your heart and has baptised you, and you will be free indeed (John 8:36). God never said these words because He did not mean them, but He said them because He wants YOU to be with HIM FOREVER in ETERNAL PEACE AND HAPPINESS.

I pray you will make the right decision in your heart, and you do not need any FEELING to come to the Lord. Perhaps if you make the decision in your heart, you are not feeling anything at all, but that does not matter. Satan loves to toy with our feelings and with our minds, introducing wicked thoughts and wicked feelings. Perhaps you do not feel like you want to do it, yet why should you let the enemy attack you with that? Come boldly to the Lord and receive Him in your heart as Lord God and Saviour, and, although you may not feel anything when you receive Him, you have the guarantee through His Holy promise of salvation in His Word, and whom God sets free will be FREE INDEED (John 8:36).

I leave you all with the beautiful message of Jesus Christ, and I thank Him for such a mighty message, for to Him be Glory, Honour, and Power forever, Amen!

El Evangelio del Cristo - no estoy aquí para argumentar en contra de la escritura según la Iglesia Católica Romana, ni para atacar a una persona por su decisión de qué fe quiere tener en su vida, pero quiero compartiros y, más específicamente, dispensaros el verdadero mensaje salvífico del Cristo.

La Iglesia Católica Romana ha sostenido que ella es la verdadera iglesia en el mundo entero, y sin duda alguna había algunos hombres que se han sentado en la silla de San Pedro que han injertado el verdadero mensaje del Cristo en la Iglesia, pero a la vez había muchos hombres, y la mayoría de la Curia romana y de los papas, que no tenían al Señor Jesucristo en sus corazones, y se ufanaban de sus abilidades de ser «hombres importantes» que tenían una posición de la que se aprovechaban y la usaban para desvanecer el verdadero mensaje dispensado por Lo Único en toda la creación y para introducir sus mensajes extranjeros y blasfemos. La definición más concisa para describir lo que estoy diciéndoos, es un término en la Santa Biblia llamado «fornicación espiritual». Los varios papas de la Iglesia han cometido el blasfemio más pernicioso por desvaneciendo el verdadero mensaje de Jesucristo que Él nos ha dado para que seamos salvos, y ahora la Iglesia actual tiene tantas mentiras que son de diversas orígenes de varios hombres.

Solamente unas breves palabras para expresaros el verdadero mensaje del Cristo, que Él nos ha dado en la Escritura (la Santa Biblia). Porque los curas y los sacerdotes dicen que todos nosotros no podemos comprender lo que dice la Santa Biblia, eso ya es una mentira. Hay palabras de Cristo que nos ha dado para conducirnos a Él, como aquí en el Evangelio según San Juan 14:6: «Yo soy el Camino, y la Verdad, y la Vida: NADIE viene al Padre, SINO POR MÍ.» Eso nos dice que el Cristo es Lo Único Camino al Padre, y no la Iglesia, ni María. ¡Ésta nos dijo sí-misma lo que necesitamos hacer! pero comenzando con verso 4, Jesús le dijo «¿Qué tengo Yo contigo, mujer? Aun no ha venido Mi hora.» Ella respondió a los discípulos: «Haced todo lo que os dijere.» (cf. Juan 2:4-5). Ésta nos dijo lo que es menester que hagamos: IR AL SEÑOR SÍ-MISMO. Además, Él nos ha dicho «Clama á Mí, y te responderé» (cf. Jeremías 33:3). Y si el Señor nos ha dicho lo que debamos hacer, pues, ¿qué pensáis en esto?

La diferencia entre la religión y el Cristianismo es que en la religión, el hombre se está tratando de alcanzar al Señor, pero en el Cristianismo, que no tiene ninguna conexión con la religión, Lo Único ya nos ha alcanzado en Su Hijo Unigénito, o, Sí-mismo en la carne, Jesucristo. Como Él nos dijo en Juan 14:6, ÉL es el Camino, y la Verdad, y la Vida: NADIE viene al Padre (Sí-mismo), ¡SINO POR ÉL! El mensaje es tan puro y claro, cerca de cada cual. De todas maneras, no podemos alcanzar a Él, pero Él ya nos ha alcanzado por Jesucristo. Es tan fácil a alcanzar a Él, pero quizá estáis cuestionándome, ¿por qué el Señor Dios del universo, que nos ha creado, ha venido en nuestro mundo en la carne para vivir una vida simple como la nuestra? Juan 3:16: «De tal manera amó Dios al mundo, que ha dado á Su Hijo Unigénito, para que todo aquel que en Él cree, no se pierda, mas tenga vida eterna». Pero, ahora estáis diciéndome, Jeff, nos sondó tan fácil, ¿de cierto no puede ser la verdad? ¡Claro que sí! Un romano, pidiendo luz, ha venido dentro de Pablo y Silas y preguntó, señores, ¿qué es menester que yo haga para ser salvo? Y ellos le dijeron: CREE EN EL SEÑOR JESUCRISTO, Y SERÁS SALVO TÚ. Pero ahora estáis cuestionando eso, diciéndome: ¿por qué debemos creer en el Señor Jesucristo? Porque el Dios que nos ha creado ha venido del cielo en la carne, a través de una mujer como mi madre, y se nos ha dado para que seamos salvos. Ahora, la única decisión que necesitamos hacer es ¿queremos creer en el Señor Jesucristo, que nos ha dado en la cruz para que seamos salvos y tengamos la vida eterna, que no puede morir? Mi respuesta es afirmativa. Pero la decisión que tenéis ahora es la vuestra, y no puedo decidir lo que quiero, y lo que quiere el Señor, que vosotros os necesitáis hacer.

Todo lo que puedo deciros es que el Señor Dios que ha creado todo nos ha dado Sí-mismo, y solamente a través de la carne pudo darnos la vida eterna, la vida que quiere darnos. Lo acepté. ¿Qué vais a hacer? La decisión es la vuestra.

Que el Señor Jesucristo, el Señor Dios, os bendiga plenamente en Su Amor y Su Gracia, porque quiere vuestros corazones, no quiere la religión. Que recordéis eso.

-- Jeffrey (jmkrothes@home.com), June 20, 2001

Answers

I'll leave the Scripture references to refute you, Jeffrey, to someone else whose native language is English (or Spanish). Just let me point out that the "contents" of the Bible were defined in 367. How do you conclude that those "seven extra books" were added, instead of having been removed by Protestantism? AFAIK they were part of all Bibles until the 1520ies.

"[T]he mistranslation of Matthew 16:18-19 was actually trying to say that Peter was apart of the Body of Christ, little pebble". I know of no example from these days when a 'pebble' metaphor was used to describe a part of a body. (BTW, the 'little rock'--slightly larger than a pebble--was a reference to Peter's nickname, 'Kephas' meaning 'little rock".)

"In religion, men try to reach God [...] We cannot reach God on our own ability [...] we are coming to God Himself naturally". Jeffrey, you are contradicting yourself.

BTW, the Roman Catholic and the Lutheran Church signed a Gemeinsame Erklärung zur Rechtfertigungslehre, stating clearly that we agree with Lutherans about how man is saved by the Lord, in October 1999 in Augsburg. Seems you're pointing out differences that don't exist and attacking doctrines that were never taught.

-- Oliver Schrinner (piraya@hispavista.com), June 20, 2001.

+JMJ

Jeffrey,

You wrote, "I am not here to argue with anyone, nor am I here to attack anyone of what faith they choose to follow, but I am here to share with you something which should have been given here at this forum a long time ago."

Thanks for sharing your arguments and attacks with us, Captain Kirk! Do you honestly believe you are "going where no "evangelist" has gone before!" You address us like were about to get a "good ol' Bible thumpin' but then you use the same ol' handed down wore out rhetoric we've all heard a hundred times before and then your fire and brimestone quickly fizzles out like a soggy fuse. You're like a pit bull with no teeth! All slobber and gums with no bite!

I truly hope to see a desire from you to understand what Catholics truly believe and to correct the misconceptions others have spread about Catholics to you. I am sure you mean well, but, like other "drive-by-evangelist" who like to shoot their Bible darts at us then duck, hide and run, they don't desire intelligent conversation in good faith. I hope you are not that type. Stick around, we might all learn something together.

-- Michael (Williams007@aol.com), June 20, 2001.


Jeffrey, triste amigo, escribes:

-" no estoy aquí para argumentar en contra de la escritura según la Iglesia Católica Romana, ni para atacar a una persona por su decisión de qué fe quiere tener en su vida, pero quiero compartiros y, más específicamente, dispensaros el verdadero mensaje salvífico del Cristo."

Tú vas a dispensarnos el verdadero mensaje salvífico? Con qué autoridad lo vas a hacer? Cómo sabes que TU mensaje es veradero? Qué puntos de tu mesaje no has sido tratados en este foro?

Antes de perder mi tiempo contestando tus ataques, que afirmas NO hacer, contesta por favor a las preguntas que te pongo aquí.

Cuando digo que no quiero perder mi tiempo, me refiero a que tus opiniones las he escuchado ya mil veces y han sido contestadas aquí abundantemente. Por lo tanto te recomiendo que antes de venirnos con supuestas novedades leas los foros ya tratados una y otra vez.

Enrique

-- Enrique Ortiz (eaortiz@yahoo.com), June 20, 2001.


I pray you will make the right decision in your heart, and you do not need any FEELING to come to the Lord. Perhaps if you make the decision in your heart, you are not feeling anything at all, but that does not matter. Satan loves to toy with our feelings and with our minds, introducing wicked thoughts and wicked feelings. Perhaps you do not feel like you want to do it, yet why should you let the enemy attack you with that? Come boldly to the Lord and receive Him in your heart as Lord God and Saviour, and, although you may not feel anything when you receive Him, you have the guarantee through His Holy promise of salvation in His Word, and whom God sets free will be FREE INDEED (John 8:36).

Jeffrey... Why is it that some people believe that Catholics have "not come to the Lord"???? That is the strangest thing to me. I am very much a Catholic and believe me, I do know the Lord. Who on earth are you or anyone else for that matter to tell me and my Catholic brothers and sisters that we don't know the Lord? That doesn't make any sense! Who are you trying to save? Seems funny to me that all these people are trying to "save" I would NEVER be as arrogant to tell someone that what their doing "simply will not work". And as far as your statement:

I pray for the soul of the man or men who introduced such a blasphemous lie into the church, diverting it from its foundation, for now I see how those men have mislead over a billion people in the world, not to say that there are not born-again Catholics, because there are many Catholics who know the Truth, and we will get to the message of the Truth which God has given us in just a moment here.

Ummm....speak to Jesus. Pray for His soul if you must I guess.

It is obvious to me and to others that you simply do not understand what the Catholic faith is all about. People like to attack us on Mary, "getting saved", worshipping the Pope...etc..etc..etc.. Trust me....we are not that stupid! We are following a Church that Christ instituted...remember He did say that people would break away from it and proclaim false gospels. As far as the Bible and the "extra books" we added... they were NOT added, they were taken away by some. Noone would even have the Bible in their hands if it weren't for the Catholics! Please, refrain yourself from trying to save us poor Catholics. We do know the Lord and we love the Lord, we worship the Lord only. In HIS name, julimarae

-- juliemarae (dabanks@harbornet.net), June 20, 2001.


Si, Jeffrey-- You do in fact, seem to have ''little pebbles'' in your head; to come here and explain to this forum everything that's wrong about the Catholic Church.

Am I correct in suspecting you are a ''minister'' of some Baptist or Methodist or Plymouth congregation? I heard all your specious arguments many years ago. The preacher then was a man who liked to inhabit a public park in San Diego on Sunday afternoons. He had his bible in his hand, and he would make long speeches to the passers-by. *Doing the work of the Lord*.

Of course, he didn't know what he was talking about. You don't either. The only difference between you and AlexJr is you can spell better. Your theology is deficient, you don't understand the relation between God and His creatures. Least of all do you know any historical facts about either the Bible or the Church. You are the typical self-ordained Protestant minister.

In case you consider my reply an ad hominem attack, I'll relieve you of the impression. I actually admire your zeal, in posting the immense bloated sermon you've made here. It takes guts; and your heart is in the right place. But you've listened to the wrong masters, I'm afraid. Do come back, Jeffrey, to the faith of your ancestors; we exhort you! May God bring you back into the fold someday, for the love of His Divine Son. Amen!

Pray for us, Blessed Virgin Mary; and for our new friend Jeffry. Saint Peter, Prince of the Apostles, and Saint James our holy patron, Pray for us. Amen !

-- eugene c. chavez (chavezec@pacbell.net), June 20, 2001.



"BTW, the Roman Catholic and the Lutheran Church signed a Gemeinsame Erklärung zur Rechtfertigungslehre, stating clearly that we agree with Lutherans about how man is saved by the Lord, in October 1999 in Augsburg. Seems you're pointing out differences that don't exist and attacking doctrines that were never taught. "

Let's make one thing perfectly clear: the declaration was signed with the World Lutheran Federation which is not Lutheran in any traditional sense. Virtually all the members of this organization have women pastors, which shows they have departed from the faith. One of the denominations that makes up the WLF is the so-called Evangelical Lutheran Church of America which recently hooked up with Spong's outfit, the Episcopal Church. I recall reading that even Ratzinger pointed out that the WLF didn't speak for all Lutherans.

The two largest real Lutheran churches in the USA -- the Missouri Synod and the Wisconsin Synod REJECT the declaration.

-- Steve Jackson (SteveJ100@hotmail.com), June 20, 2001.


Steve, does it matter? The Lutheran Church in Luther's country had, and has, no objections. Anyway, my point was that we obviously agree that man is justified by faith alone, so all the radicals that point at our belief in works attack phantoms.

Jeffrey, regarding Mt 16:18f. you really got us; I looked petros and petra up in a dictionary, and they mean precisely the same. The entry for the former was "=> petra".

Can you believe that there are areas in the world where people like you and Catholics--yes, Roman Catholics--cooperate? Areas that have been secularised so thoroughly that Christians form a small minority, the few believers forming an alliance in a frequently hostile atheistic environment? If you don't, come to Central Europe.

Pax et bonum,

-- Oliver Schrinner (piraya@hispavista.com), June 21, 2001.

"Of course, he didn't know what he was talking about. You don't either. The only difference between you and AlexJr is you can spell better. Your theology is deficient, you don't understand the relation between God and His creatures. Least of all do you know any historical facts about either the Bible or the Church. You are the typical self-ordained Protestant minister."

I would submit the above paragraph as an example of the nasty judgement that can be found here.

Since I've come to this site, I've done a bit of reading elsewhere and I find the spirit of the catechism and other Catholic writings far more hospitable and graceful than replies such as this.

Again, I am awfully grateful that upon my return, as a humble mortal sinner, that I was greated by a couple of people who were interested in my healing without the easily associated shame.

Attraction and kindness is so much more influencial than the alternatives.

Love, Chris

-- chris coose (ccoose@maine.rr.com), June 21, 2001.


Dear Chris Coose,
Yes, ''hospitable, graceful. --Attraction and kindness''. Just the ticket for those entering this forum to indict the Church of spiritual ''fornication'', whatever that implies. So Jeffrey is to be stroked, and granted attention when he says:

'' we do not have to do anything except receive Jesus Christ in our hearts as Lord God and Saviour. The Roman Catholic church has not been teaching this, but now it is time to show what the Pope has not been showing, or, at least perhaps has touched on it yet never expounded on the subject as he should have, being a man in a position of high authority, and God will hold him accountable for not sharing the Truth with you as he should have done so.''

+Yes, Chris; just as you entered our site and proclaimed you didn't give a ''fiddler's fart'' about the Church's teaching and now, --you ask for sensitivity, so you can ''heal''. Jeffrey gave it to us in English, and also in Spanish-- straight from the source: ''I leave you all with the beautiful message of Jesus Christ, and I thank Him for such a mighty message,--''

But right in that mighty message he dumped on homosexuals, didn't he? Go back and study his sensitive words, Chris. Then when you see how condescending he's acted, maybe you'll see what has that nasty [corrected underlining tag, Moderator] Gene's nose out of joint! God forgive me-- I'm sorry I have no patience with hypocrites.

-- eugene c. chavez (chavezec@pacbell.net), June 21, 2001.


Oliver, your post makes no sense to me. The "Lutheran" church in Germany rejects the teachings of Luther. For example, one of its more prominent theologians is Pannenberg, who denies the virgin birth. It also ordains women, which shows it is in a state of apostacy.

-- Steve Jackson (stevej100@hotmail.com), June 21, 2001.


The suggestion here is Gene, is that you can play on this guy's field and play the same games or you might rise to a higher level, inspired by all the knowledge that you have related to Christ's teachings

. The apostles would not have followed an angry, impatient, intollerant messenger.

By the way, it is my opinion that you do not give a fiddler's fart for Jeffery's message and if you understood the context of my use of the term, you might find that I have been similarily offended by strange messages delivered by even stranger messengers.

Please forgive us all. Even if we do enter your holy turf.

Love, Chris

-- chris coose (ccoose@maine.rr.com), June 21, 2001.


Dear Chris, (Chris Coose)
In the context I've replied to Jeffrey's words here, you don't have cause to preach to me. He asked for what he got; nothing violent or hateful, just a straightforward rejection of his sermon. He presumes to lecture us. He belittles the Holy Virgin, our Pope, and even the apostle Peter!

You want us to be touchy-feely; as if that might establish a ''dialogue'' with Jeffrey? Our Lord called people like him a brood of vipers. How's that for touchy-feely? Let Jeffrey speak for himself. I didn't say anything at all to you.
Love, Gene /

-- eugene c. chavez (chavezec@pacbell.net), June 22, 2001.


Poor Alex B.F.; --All his efforts are dedicated to blaspheming the Church of the Holy Apostles. Instead of approaching people in the spirit of love, imitating Christ, only *the opposite.*

Alex, Dear-- is this forum causing you great pain? Does a Catholic's faith enrage you? You have reminded me of the devil inside the possessed boy (Mark 9 : 19) which Jesus cast out. It was not cast out by any apostle (the Church) --only by the Lord. Jesus said ''This kind can only be cast out by prayer and fasting.''

Oh Holy Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ! Have mercy on the soul of Alex Ruiz Jr, a lost soul. In your infinite love and mercy give him peace and bring him to your holy sanctuary again; where he can serve you as his ancestors once served you. Deliver him, O Lord from his inner devil of envy and rage, who leads him into confrontations with your Holy Church.

Give Alex, O Lord, comfort and relief from the attacks of his demon; and final perseverance to eternal life. Amen /

-- eugene c. chavez (chavezec@pacbell.net), June 23, 2001.


Dear Eugene: acerca de Alex y sus necias intervenciones. Tú entiendes perfectamente el dicho: Hacerles caso a los locos es engrandecerlos.

Enrique

-- Enrique Ortiz (eaortiz@yahoo.com), June 23, 2001.


As I have said before, I am not here to argue, but I have one question to ask you all (except Alex): who is your God? The Roman Catholic religion and its teachings or Jesus Christ?

No quiero atacaros, pero hay que preguntaros algo (a excepción de Alex): ¿quién es vuestro Dios? ¿Jesucristo, el Señor Dios en la carne, o la Iglesia Católica Romana y sus enseñanzas?

-- Jeffrey (jmkrothes@home.com), June 23, 2001.



Dear Jeffrey-- The Roman Catholic religion and its teachings? These are precisely the teachings of Jesus Christ. The Catholic Church only exists in the world because Jesus founded her.

For you to pretend we must CHOOSE between the Church He founded and Jesus the Founder --doesn't speak much for your basic knowledge of the Christian faith. Why not also ask the question, ''What have the apostles got to do with your religious faith? All you need is Jesus.'' So saying, you ignore the role Jesus assigned to them; the spreading of His Holy Gospel to all nations, ''Baptising them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all I have commanded you,'' (Matt, 28 :19-:20) --Which mission the Catholic Church is fulfilling to this day, and until the end of the world. The Church is not God for us; the Church is the work of God, bringing souls to Jesus Christ, His grace and salvation.

It's OK that you didn't come here to argue, Jeffrey. You haven't much credibility to bring to the task. Keep visiting here, and open your eyes to the truth as God tells it. God bless and keep you.

-- eugene c. chavez (chavezec@pacbell.net), June 23, 2001.


Dear Eugene: do you see what I meant with my last post?

Enrique

-- Enrique Ortiz (eaortiz@yahoo.com), June 24, 2001.


Poor Man--

Alex is following Jesus, but first he must follow the false prophets of this world. Just a little detour. Remember, Alex; whenever you decide to return to the Holy Church of your father, mother, and ancestors --You are welcome to come back. God will know you for the Prodigal Son that took his inheritance and wasted it.

You'll get tired of eating the husks that animals have in this world, and return for the Bread of Life. God calls you every day, if only you truly love Him. Ask His forgiveness, Alex!

-- eugene c. chavez (chavezec@pacbell.net), June 30, 2001.


Jmj

Hello, Oliver.

I was surprised to see that you (a Catholic, right?) wrote:
"Anyway, my point was that we obviously agree that man is justified by faith alone ..."

As Catholics, we do not believe such a formula. I believe that the document to which you referred does not use such words.

We receive initial justification through faith and Baptism, after which we remain justified by a "faith working in love" (i.e., faith and good works, as St. James says), and we are renewed in justification, after mortal sin (which causes loss of justification), by sacramental confession, contrition, and amendment of life. Clearly, it is not a question of "faith alone."

St. James, pray for us. Our Lady of Grace, pray for us. God bless you.
John PS: Jeff, your name and/or e-mail address seem familiar. Were you posting messages here two or three years ago?

-- (jgecik@desc.dla.mil), July 05, 2001.


« I was surprised to see that you (a Catholic, right?) wrote: "Anyway, my point was that we obviously agree that man is justified by faith alone ..."

As Catholics, we do not believe such a formula. I believe that the document to which you referred does not use such words.

We receive initial justification through faith and Baptism, after which we remain justified by a "faith working in love" (i.e., faith and good works, as St. James says), and we are renewed in justification, after mortal sin (which causes loss of justification), by sacramental confession, contrition, and amendment of life. Clearly, it is not a question of "faith alone."

St. James, pray for us. »

Man is justified by faith alone, as it is written: "There is none righteous, no, not one" (cf. Romans 3:10) and "therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in His sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin" (cf. Romans 3:20). In other words, the law has given us the realisation that we are sinners. God created the law in order that we might come to Him and seek His forgiveness, and the only way we could have the free pardon of ALL sin (past, present, and future), is through Jesus Christ, who is the Lord God Almighty Himself come down to us in the flesh. This is the message of the cross. The Catholic Church has many crosses, yet never teaches for what reason they exist in the church. In reality, these are there to remind us of what God Himself did for us upon the cross, dying for every sin. He did not have to do that; it was not His obligation. Yet, He WILLED that He do that so that we may have a relationship with Him again, which was why He created us in the first place, to FELLOWSHIP with Him. In His great love for us, He ALREADY planned that He should COMPLETELY FORGIVE us of all sin. Yes, those who are reading, it is THAT simple!

If you want to know Jesus Christ as personal Lord and Saviour and accept the free gift of pardon which God Himself has given to finite man, which NO CHURCH nor PERSON, nor BAPTISM nor RITUAL, nor SACRAMENT nor PROCESS, can give because of its false doctrine. God told us through Pastor Paul (the Apostle), "But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any [man] preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed" (cf. Galatians 1:8-9). In other words, there are many popes and priests suffering in hell for an eternity because they have introduced their false doctrines, same as in Joseph Smith and the doctrine of Moronai, who probably was real; one of Satan's fallen angels (as Galatians 1:8 said, but though we, OR AN ANGEL FROM HEAVEN). Now, notice how Paul said the gospel which *we* have given unto you. As faithlessness tends to dote, one believes that simple men wrote the Bible, and that its teachings are therefore invalid. Wrong! For the Lord tells us again through Pastor Paul in his letter to Brother Timothy, "ALL Scripture is DIVINELY INSPIRED by the SPIRIT OF GOD" (cf. II Timothy 3:16). In other words, God used these men to write down what He had in mind. He did not use a church of finite men to reach Him (as is religion), but He Himself came down to us in the flesh (Jesus Christ) and did that which only He, the Lord God, can do. In other words (and if you do not already accept what the Word of God says, e.g. in the Gospel of John), Jesus HAS to be God Himself because only God could have sacrificed Himself for our sins, not another, and certainly NOT Mary, or the saints. By the way, the Bible teaches us that those who put their faith in Jesus Christ and let HIM lead their lives are called SAINTS. Because the men to whom Paul wrote his letters, i.e. in the Book of Romans, those were simple men, who he called saints. I am a simple man, too, flesh and bone, just as were Paul, Silas, Barnabas, et al. God tells us Himself, "If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed" (cf. John 8:36). In other words, if you pray and thus open your heart up and ask Jesus to come into your heart and be your personal Lord and Saviour, HE it is who shall set you free, not YOU, not MARY, not SAINT JAMES, not SAINT PETER, GEORGE, PAUL, MARK, FRANCIS OF ASSISI, or ANY CHURCH, but JESUS CHRIST, THE LORD GOD!!! As the Lord put it upon my heart to ask all of you (save Alex), who IS your God??? Is it the Roman Catholic Church, Mary, or the saints? Or is it Jesus Christ, the Lord God Himself in the flesh? And if only you realised that right now God is giving you the opportunity to come to Him and ask Him to lead your life - if you ask Him, HE IS FAITHFUL TO COMPLETE A WORK IN YOU. Which means, you cannot make yourself saved, nor can the church, nor can Mary, a woman who is now with the Lord praising Him and never listening to prayers proffered by mislead people. Do not get offended when I say mislead, because the truth shall set you free if you are honest. God never asked for your feelings, God asked for your honesty and the acknowledgement of your sin, and thus you go before Him and repent against that which you have done wrong, and guess what? God ALREADY forgave you before you even prayed that prayer (for He forgave us upon His death and resurrection, so there is no need for penances, there is just need for acknowledgement and simple repentance). Now, when you ask Jesus into your heart as Lord and Saviour, does that mean you will no longer sin? Of course not! We are human beings, and until Jesus takes us home, we shall NEVER be perfect! Yet, when we do sin, all we have to do is turn to Him and seek His forgiveness with the simple acknowledgement of our sin, and repent, and He has already forgiven us. Does that mean, therefore, that, when you sin after you have accepted Jesus into your heart, that you have to re-ask Him into your heart? No! As Jesus said, if the Son shall set you free, YOU SHALL BE FREE INDEED! Only once is it necessary to ask Jesus into your heart, NO MORE! But beware, Satan is also real and will be on your case with lies beyond measure after you accept Jesus as your Lord and Saviour. Some people have accepted Jesus, and they keep re-accepting Him into their hearts, but do not even realise that Satan is already lying to them, by telling them there is a certain something they have to do in order to be saved. Have any of you ever found the definition for GRACE? It is an UNMERITED FAVOUR from God and God alone, who is the only One to give a man *eternal* grace.

If you wish to accept Jesus into your heart right now as Lord and Saviour, then bow your heart, and pray, and ask this, "Lord Jesus, right now I recognise that I am a sinner. I recognise that, apart from You, there is no salvation, and there is no forgiveness. Yet You have pardoned all my sins, past, present, and future, and have promised me eternal life if I accept You, and I ask You to be Lord of my life, and to direct my ways by the power of Your Holy Spirit. I ask all these things in Your Name, Amen." Voilà! And welcome to the Kingdom of God, for He counts you as one of His own children. Know that the only way you can change from your old ways is by going to Jesus Christ, and having Him clean you. In John 13, we read the plain and simple message of salvation given by Christ Himself. God humbled Himself by girding Himself with a towel, and washing His disciples' feet. When He came to Peter, Peter asked Him, "Lord, are YOU washing MY feet???" And Jesus said, "What I do you do not know now, but will know hereafter." And Peter said, "You will never wash my feet!", and Jesus said, "If I do not wash you, you have no part with Me". Notice how He did not say "feet" in there, because perhaps He was trying to convey to us a MESSAGE! If we do not ask Jesus into our hearts to clean us, and accept Him, then we shall continue in the tide of this world, the "mainstream" of Satan's tide of lies, liberalism, communism, and other sorts of things he has invented to kill the creation of God.

If you make the right choice, email me, for I will be more than happy to speak with you and to ask the Lord to be of assistance in the time of need you have. By the way, it is so simple to pray; you do not need repetitive prayer (as God condemns in Matthew 6:7-8). In fact, let me read verse 8 for you, "Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask Him". In other words, if you cannot seem to pray, do not be troubled! The Lord KNOWS your needs. So, if you are troubled, or may be distressed, always just ask the Lord to fill your heart with His Holy Spirit and to take care of your needs, for know that He will take care of you, which was why He came down here on this earth and died on the cross, and rose again, conquering death. He loves you, and will never leave you, and I am certain most of you have read the poem Footprints, and how, when we seem to think the Lord is not here with us, He is, in actuality, carrying us.

May the Lord bless you all, and may He open your eyes to the realisation which is so simple, and which no church nor human being (e.g. Mary, or any saint), can give you.

Much love in Christ Jesus the Saviour of our souls, Jeff

-- Jeffrey (jmkrothes@home.com), July 05, 2001.


Jmj

Hold your horses, Logorrheic Jeffrey!

In my message, I addressed only the following words to you -- and you failed to answer them! ... "Jeff, your name and/or e-mail address seem familiar. Were you posting messages here two or three years ago?"

The rest of my message, concerning faith and justification, was addressed to Oliver -- not to you. As others have mentioned, your thoughts on these and other subjects (reflecting your anti-Catholic, fundamentalist bigotry) are neither welcome nor of any value. I have no time to waste on reading them, since they are guaranteed to be wrong, in large part.

May I suggest that you get together with Alex Ruiz and see if you can't get a "Fundy Forum" going. Alex apparently needs a partner.

God bless you.
John

-- (jgecik@desc.dla.mil), July 05, 2001.


Hi John! --Well, meet the mirror-image of AlexJr, but with teeth. Lol! Jeffrey can't do wrong, in Jeffrey's estimation. The Church of the Apostles can't do right, as he sees it.

He's brimming with the ''spirit'', is Jeffrey. His doctrine is false, but he never read a passage of scripture he couldn't misconstrue, so we're no match! And, you're right; he runs on like Niagara Falls, ponderous and unstoppable.

His opinions are gospel truth to him, and have all the authority of his human interpretation of Holy Scripture. Which is VERY little. Jeffrey has possibly forgot the words spoken by Saint Peter; about his authority to render the meaning of Scripture: ''You must understand first of all, that no prophesy of Scripture is made of private interpretation.'' (2 Peter, 1:20)

Inasmuch as Jeffrey dismisses the Apostle Peter as mere dead-weight ('' not SAINT JAMES, not SAINT PETER, GEORGE, PAUL, MARK, FRANCIS OF ASSISI, or ANY CHURCH, but JESUS CHRIST, THE LORD GOD!!! As the Lord put it upon my heart to ask all of you (save Alex), who IS your God??? Is it the Roman Catholic Church, Mary, or the saints? Or is it Jesus Christ, the Lord God Himself in the flesh?'' ), I'm not surprised he never read the 2nd epistle of that saint. In fact, saints, apostles, martyrs --living testimony to Christ in the Catholic Church as it has spread the Holy Gospel throughout the history of the modern world, --all this amounts to nothing for Jeffrey.

He is ordained to carry the truth to poor ignorant Catholics. They can't find Christ without Jeffrey. He's the power behind the Bible. Christ can't convert Catholics; only Jeffrey can. He is more powerful than the Apostles. And, what good is their Church? Jeffrey is bringing a big broom with him. To clean house for Christ.

''Hey, you! --Doomed, contemptible Pontiff! I'm going to sweep you out of God's kingdom; that's right! Me-- Jeffrey. My and my Bible!''

Ha ha ha!

-- eugene c. chavez (chavezec@pacbell.net), July 06, 2001.


Hi, Gene.
Jeffrey's seems to be a pretty blatant case of self-election to a private-church papacy. If he continues to wreak havoc, he will earn the title, His Lowliness, Pope Jeffrey I. Imagine how exciting it will be for us to have direct contact with an infallible fundy.

[Jeffrey, I am just kidding around, but really I have to tell you that you are not doing yourself and your message any favors by using your current mode of presentation. Ariel Sharon would sooner join the PLO than we Catholics would hop on your present kind of bandwagon.]

JFG

-- (jgecik@desc.dla.mil), July 06, 2001.


Yes--OK, Jeffrey:
Let's talk about FAITH, just that aspect. See which of us has real FAITH in Jesus Christ. You or the catholic?

Jesus Christ's words are mostly a literal guideline to the Catholic, Jeff. His word is true; it's a real confrontation with our world. Your way is the Christ on a page. You may think this makes it ''spirit and truth''; but you've reduced Him to somebody far away, whom you can't see or approach.

Catholics LIVE WITH Jesus Christ. Jesus is in our midst, Body, Soul, and Divinity. He dwells in the midst of His followers, as Yahweh did with the Israelites. He ''pitches His tent'' among us; the Holy Tabernacle of the Church. It goes without saying, His Word is with us in the Holy Bible. Not a word which is argueable, something parsed and deconstructed to suit our own concepts, but penetrated through and through by the Holy Spirit. No error can enter in by human misunderstanding. The Church has His own promise that never will the Gates of Hell prevail against her.

Peter is the only holder of the Keys of the kingdom of heaven, to lock and unlock, by Christ's authority. Peter is working still, in his successors the bishops of Rome. The Church is everlasting.

Your church, Jeffrey-- your particular school of thought as regards the Word of God --shall surely pass away. It can't endure, because the Holy Spirit isn't within. That's already very apparent by the manner in which you misconstrue entire passages of the gospels. Just one instance, the whole of John, Chapter 6, from verse 20 to the end. Only by the light of the Holy Spirit can the true import of Christ's words be accepted by His faithful Church. Others just tap-dance around the clear words.

But it's never too late to learn, Jeffrey. Take your place among us. You came to the right place! Subdue your pride; ''Be still and KNOW''.

With all sincerity, may God be with you-- we welcome you.

-- eugene c. chavez (chavezec@pacbell.net), July 06, 2001.


Jesus always said as it is written. The darkness can't say such a thing because it isn't written!!

-- Jesussaves (Jesusislife@Christianemail.com), July 06, 2001.

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