Onan, a character in the Bible?greenspun.com : LUSENET : Aeon Flux : One Thread
Not so long ago I heard something about the first documented record of masturbation which, believe it or not, appeared in the Bible. I don't read the Bible nor do I have one at home but from what I heard it was a character named Onan who spanked his monkey and left his seed on the ground, or something along those lines. Of course it wasn't that clearly said in the Holy Book. Now the Onan in the Bible spanked his monkey and the Onan in AF wanted to spank Aeon or whatever. So is there any connection? If I offended some believers I apologize, but you should probably be able to answer my question then?
-- Vercingetorix (email@example.com), June 28, 2001
(Not ever in this column would I originate the phrase 'pop his cork'). From my view I try to imagine God's perspective. #1-Major concern: One of my flock is not benefitting from a more beautiful and caring involvement with any of my other sheep.
-- Barb e (Suesuesbeo9@cs.com), May 09, 2003.
HARUMPH!!!! How DARE YOU! Fool. No matter. Bring forth all your strong women at once.
-- ONAN (firstname.lastname@example.org), June 30, 2001.
I'll contribute my two cents: in Hebrew, "onan" means "masturbate".
-- Mat Rebholz (email@example.com), June 30, 2001.
Ha! I knew it! Thanks Mat.
-- Vercingetorix (firstname.lastname@example.org), June 30, 2001.
......AHEM.... yes but it is meant SARCASTICALLY with me!!!!
-- ONAN (email@example.com), July 02, 2001.
Never doubted that or believed anything else, I assure you.
-- Vercingetorix (firstname.lastname@example.org), July 02, 2001.
Hey O! A guy masterbating while surrounded by strong women would probably suffer a severe beating at their hands. Exactly what do you mean by sarcastically anyway?
-- al from cal (email@example.com), July 12, 2001.
Actually, Onan was the character in the Bible who, ah, "spilled his seed" on the ground. His story is often quoted in Christianity's prohibitions on masturbation. I don't know if it means "masturbate" in Hebrew or not.
IT seems to make sense though, when considering the chara from the series.
-- Joey V. (firstname.lastname@example.org), August 13, 2001.
((accidentally hit the post button before finishing)
Onan from the series is quite a selfish man in many ways. And often the Biblical Onan's actions are ascribed selfish motives.
-- Joey V. (email@example.com), August 13, 2001.
Onan was a character in the Bible who went to masturbate INSTEAD of having sex with his wife. Since he spilled his seed on the ground and thus wasted it, his actions were villified. Had he spilled his seed in his wife however everything would have been fine. The term "onanism" means either masturbation, or the act of coitus interuptus which is when a man withdraws from inside a woman right before ajaculation so as not to inseminate her. (In case anyone is wondering this is NOT a valid method of birth control so do not try it). How the biblical character relates to the Flux character is definitely up for interpretation.
-- Logo (Vosepherus@aol.com), August 24, 2001.
8 Then Judah said to Onan, "Lie with your brother's wife and fulfill your duty to her as a brother-in-law to produce offspring for your brother." 9 But Onan knew that the offspring would not be his; so whenever he lay with his brother's wife, he spilled his semen on the ground to keep from producing offspring for his brother. 10 What he did was wicked in the LORD's sight; so he put him to death also.
Genesis 38 I interpret as withrawing before orgasm not masturbation. You really should study the bible and learn what God wants from you A small return to make on the blessings he's given you
-- jda (firstname.lastname@example.org), November 19, 2001.
Why am I getting the distinct impression the last entry to this thread was posted by someone whose suggestions as to "you should" are "3'd-hand"?
It matters because, the interpretation of the Bible or of any teleology in general (whatever one "should"; "ought" ..) that were properly, or literally FUNDAMENTALIST can only be that of the individual who were, ostensibly, consulting The Word for sake of her or his own personal vision.
But you, you motherfucker, come here to construe (by way of underhanded and loaded inference at that you coward) your own interpretation, off the cuff for all of it, of authority that nobody else, but you, here, should have any personal acquaintance with or rightful consideration oropinion of of their own.
Lest your words otherwise had been crassly redundant or impertinent.
People like you are always so certain that theirs is gonna be the 2 cents that'll tip the scales of truth and wisdom. That their cheap, anonymous shot just might be the one with everyone else's name on it!
The thing is, you would-be Oracle to the Interminable, that you consider it a foregone conclusion that nobody else but you listens anyway, or really cares what the fuck you have to say and will fall for your own "Original Pretension" (!) as a result of their own foolish hubris before they should take you - yeah, YOU: straight back to The Issue you NEVER REALLY MEANT TO ENGAGE PER SE: WHAT ABOUT GOD?
Because if you were here to spam us for any legitimate purposes of whatever in this world you ever could possibly be of any legitimate representation to or speak to on any competent authority, it would not be for GOD: now, would it? I didn't think so!
But NO MATTER FOR YOU. RIGHT, you sanctimonious, God-barker!! Plenty of sheep in the herd! A scapegoat born every minute. You'll find plenty of fanfare, right? People are stupid - look, they never listen! THAT's why see it's like YOU AND GOD, boy, I bet you two really do have something in common! YOU ARE A PIECE OF SHIT.
I'm not asking you: I am, directly, telling you what you may (if you've any hope at all) yourself suspect.
Don't call here and don't come around.
-- dangerboy (email@example.com), November 20, 2001.
A million monkeys.
-- Frostbite (firstname.lastname@example.org), November 20, 2001.
Onan the Barbarian?
-- FU (email@example.com), October 17, 2002.
Hey, there returning to this story line soon. I like conan. He's bad assed man.
-- Sam (firstname.lastname@example.org), October 17, 2002.
Has anyone considered that the reason Onan was punished by God was not because of the action of spilling his seed, wether by masturbation or by pulling out, but because he was not doing what was commanded of him... Being a husband to Tamar?
-- Jane Doe (email@example.com), October 27, 2002.
YESSS! THANK YOU JANE DOE my goddess somebody go BINGO
-- DANGERBOY (firstname.lastname@example.org), October 27, 2002.
Argh...the Bible clearly states that God killed Onan because he refused to "get it on" w/ Tamar, at least properly--therefore committing a sin in His eyes. *sigh*...
-- Kaitlyn (email@example.com), March 19, 2003.
Ah, but if Onan had not been commanded to have intercourse w/ Tamar, he would not have been punished for not doing so. It's the disobedience, not the act itself.
Tamar, incidentally, winds up getting preggers from her father in law. She's in disguise, though, not like the old man knew what he was doing.
Makes my family look normal, I can tell you that much.
-- Anne (DanaksZoul@hotmail.com), March 21, 2003.
I hesitate to add to the discussion in fearing ol dangerboy will pop his cork.
-- (firstname.lastname@example.org), April 26, 2003.
Or, fear that he wont.
-- Sam (email@example.com), April 26, 2003.
ahhh...what one finds with one simple word search in Google.
-- (firstname.lastname@example.org), May 07, 2003.
I dont know if Masturbation is a Sin but i think that lusting can be wrong because it takes you away from God. I know That Jesus is real and i know you should try your best to please him and not the Body. Were Only Human and we dont know all the answers but we must search our Hearts. Like i said I dont know if its a SIN and i also think it was the Fact that Onan did not fufill what he was told why he was Punished. THis is my opinion. I am Honestly Clueless this is just what i think but i could be wrong. No one actually knows but God. Godbless
-- Preech (Nonya@Hotmail.COM), May 08, 2003.
Here my two cents - and yes - they will tip the scale, dangerboy, or should I say, "dangergirl?".
First of all, "Onan" does not mean "masturbate" in Hebrew; it has become "synonymous" with masturbation in many mediterranean areas, including Greece, for example. But that's because of the origin, the same way that, for example, Michael Jordan is synonymous with "basketball" - it doesn't mean that "Michael Jordan", when properly translated, means "basketball" - but we know that that's what is meant when his name is mentioned.
Second of all, it is correct that Onan's sin was "defiance" due to his analysis of future PERSONAL consequences. In other words, God said, "Do this" and Onan was in the process of doing as he was told, then at the last moment thought, "Ah, but she's probably pregnant anyway, and it's then it wouldn't be my child, and then ... blah blah blah."
So - to answer the question once and for all: is the sin "masturbation" in and of itself?
Like all things, it depends on what accompanies it.
For example: if it is accompanied by lust, which makes you go get certain magazines or waste hours at certain websites where your non- stop adulation of nude women is transformed into idolatry of the "naked goddess" type, then it's wrong - because your masturbation then becomes a form of "goddess worship". Then you are "sucked in" to a never- endign cycle of more porn (goddess worship), more lust, more masturbation, etc. etc. etc.
But if you simply mast. once in a while to "relieve the pressure' and 'clear your mind" - without the use of imagery or anything, than that's not "the best" but it is far better than either:
a) getting sucked into idol-goddess worhsip, which is basically what porn is all about - a conspiracy to get impressionable young men to worship not "God, the father" but "the goddess."
b) not masturbating at all, which coincidentally many religions which are under the influence of pagan belief systems teach, which will eventually cause young men to have a "wet dream". In hebrew belief, not the "new age" type, but the old, traditional type, men's "wet dreams" were cause by an evil demon-woman named "lilith" who visited men in their sleep and "stole their vitality" against their will.
Lilith, according to hebrew tradion, preceded "eve" as the first woman, who angered both Adam and God in that she was disobedient and demanded that Adam answer to her, not the other way around. She got her rear end kicked to Eden's curb, then went away and created demons to vex Adam and his new wife, Eve.
There are certain schools of belief in Judaism, not that at large, and certainly nothing you'll find in most synagogues today, but there are certain beliefs in some circles that the "serpant" in the garden of eden was Lilith in disguise, which according to this system, portrays the devil as not a "male" character, but a "female" character.
All world religions teach that the devil "decieves" - so hey, why not about its sex too, right?
Anyway, so to conclude: better masturbation once in a while WITHOUT any pornography or fantasies than to fall prey to lilith in the middle of a wet dream.
-- Reign's More Interesting Than Aeon (email@example.com), May 09, 2003.