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I wanted to start a new thread seeing as the Need input from Forum members thread was already getting a bit long...

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You're right, David. I have opened a can of worms by password-protecting the forum. Or, you could say I've exchanged one can of worms for another by going this route over leaving the forum open.

The way sharon was treated over on CS recently was the last straw for me. It confirmed some things that have been said to me in private and led me to believe that things were only going to get worse (not better). And I was not going to put up with things if they were going to get worse. I've found over these last few months that I really don't have the inclination nor the patience in dealing with troublemakers. So, I felt I had two options: close the forum down and walk away, or password protect it and try to keep things from getting worse. I chose the latter.

I don't know if I've done the right thing by going this route but it's a done deal now and I'm not sure I could change it back even if I wanted to (I tried changing things back to an open forum but it didn't work so I put the password back in).

I know some people aren't happy that I've made this decision. I guess all I can offer to them is if they want to create their own forum I'd be happy to help them do so. At least I'd help in the early stages. After things were up and running you'd be on your own. Creating a forum is not really all that hard to do. About the hardest thing when creating one is trying to come up with a cool name for it. ;-)

The other thing I wanted to mention is that we admins don't have god-like powers over this forum. Oh sure, we can go in and fix boo-boos, we can delete a post or even a whole thread. But when it comes to keeping troublemakers out we have little available to us other than deleting their posts. We *might* know their IP address (if they're not using an anonymizer service to cloak themselves) but we can't block them from getting into the forum. Greenspun hasn't given us administrators that kind of power over our forums. We're screwed if someone gets in here that we don't want in here - Cindy, Joy, or I have no way of keeping them out.

The BTS back-up forum *does* have the ability to block IP addresses so we would have more power in keeping troublemakers out of that forum. I guess if someone here wanted that forum I'd be willing to give it to them and they could run it as an "open" alternative to this one...

Well, there's lots more to say but I don't have time to say it now. I want to check in with Joy and Cindy - by password-protecting the forum I've dumped quite a bit of work on them.

-- Anonymous, July 16, 2001

Answers

I did have a long post written for the other thread but my computer choked when I tried to send it and now I don't have time to retype it all.

The sort version is that I've been through similar situation before, only it was with email discussion lists rather than a forum. Someone would start a list, the bullies would intimidate people, people would quit posting and the list would die. We'd start another list, the same bullies would show up and the same thing would happen again. Then we started a closed list, in order to subscribe you must be recommended by another member. The bullies complain that we're elitist snobs and that we're censoring them and that we're being hypocrits because we say that we honor and respect individual opinions but we won't let them in. But to be honest I've experienced more personal growth on the private list in 6 months than I did in 6 years of subscribing to the public lists. There is such a thing as being too nice. We don't have to be nice to the bullies if all it does is hurt us. I don't want to have a forum where I have to pick and choose threads, as JOJ suggested on the other thread. I have to do enough of that already on CS. I wholeheartedly support the password protection on the forum.

-- Anonymous, July 16, 2001


Password protect it. So we're elitist snobs. We can live with that.

-- Anonymous, July 16, 2001

I can disagree that we will be perceived as elitist snobs, but that is such crap. Most of us still participate at CS. We don't have to give our entire Internet time to anyone who wants it! [end mini rant]

-- Anonymous, July 16, 2001

Ooooh!!! I always wanted to be an elitist snob!! Do we get to extend our pinkies while we drink our herbal teas and walk around with our snouts stuck in the air - do we?! do we!? huh?! huh!?

Jim, dear heart, I don't think anyone is critisizing you. You felt the need to password protect and you did and it's fine. Enough of the folks here still participate over at CS so that if someone wants to join in and they are a good match for us, they will figure out a way to contact us. I was also very dismayed by the attack on Sharon - what a bunch of hooey that was! And now that you've pulled up the drawbridge, I can take off this darn tin-foil armour and quit trying to teach the dog to look mean. Hey - at least we didn't flood the moat and fill it with gators and piranahs!! Big hugs to you.

-- Anonymous, July 16, 2001


Polly said......."Hey - at least we didn't flood the moat and fill it with gators and piranahs!!"

I say, if it means that we will all feel safe in a caring atmosphere flood the moat and fill it with gators and piranahs!!!

I really appreciate what you have done and all the work you have put in to it Jim, Cindy and Joy. I think if we were all to just ignore everyone at CS then maybe we could be called elitest, but I didn't think that that was the point. If I were to have a party at my home there are people I would invite and I would set a limit that I felt comfortable with. I have neighbors that I would not invite to my home for a party with some of my other friends. They don't have much in common and could maybe even antagonize each other. I would entertain them separately or not at all.

I am willing to go along with what everyone in our group feels comfortable with. I do like the idea of discussions before admitting new members and would still appreciate knowing who all actually had the password. There were people that were posting on the forum before we passworded that I felt very uncomfortable with, but I don't particularly expect them to be excluded. It has been a real growth experience for me to learn how to participate with people that were a bit of a stretch for me. There are a couple that I personally believe would go out and post the password the first time they got pissed off at someone here. I guess we will just have to trust our moderators and each other to keep this a safe haven in a difficult media. I say three cheers for Jim at being decisive and going with password rather than pulling the plug.

-- Anonymous, July 16, 2001



Jim, this OUR HOME and we should be able to feel safe here, if we want real life nastiness, we know where to go if we feel adventuresome and up to it!

I like the password protection, then I KNOW for sure who is getting all that's said here, and can be more open with my feeling and opinions, yes, we all can be MORE "touchy-feely" even, and that is a GOOD thing, to quote Martha Stewart!!!

Does this make us all "elistist snobs"??? Nah, we are too much like family for that!!! Just a close family, is all!

-- Anonymous, July 16, 2001


I just wanted to clarify that the "elitist snobs" remarks were made by different people about a different forum after it went private. As far as I know, no one has said that about BTS.

-- Anonymous, July 16, 2001

Jim

If you do not quit Monday morning quarterbacking :oD I'm going to come there with Nick and my three big brothers and whup your butt.

Yes,David is right. There will be more problems. And I of course will be the cute little troll who perpetrates these despicable acts.So you already have your scapegoat(baaaaaaaaaaaa) See? It all works out.

With all sincerety,I appreciate what you did and we'll all deal with the next assault when it comes. That's life. We like to talk to each other.We do it here. We'll continue to do so. That's my take on it,anyway.

You've got a lot more on your plate to concern yourself with than this forum. Remember,it's trivial. Now,what can I come up with that will make you laugh...let me think....hmmm.....pullin' a blank.Polly..er...I mean Minnie Me,I need some help here! We need a good dirty joke for Jim. Hey,I got one...oops,I don't think the wife is going to let me tell you that one. Darn it! It's a good one too...

-- Anonymous, July 16, 2001


Heres a thought. Why not open a BTS 2 and open it to the public. Then if we really like someone we can invite them to the private BTS. God is that snobbery or what!!!

Better idea. We call it the BTS intertainment forum!! No rules or moderation! Be like our members going to the zoo and playing with the animals!

I may like being a snob! Hey does David stick his pinky out when he drinks pea pod wine?.....Kirk

-- Anonymous, July 16, 2001


Geesssssssh Kirk.....on one thread you are being a SAINT and then turn around and be a real STINKER!!!! LOL How about we watch them for five years before we let them on???????????? It is tooooo hot and humid here today and I am getting really not nice. We are needing rain so bad that we cut hay just to see if it would rain. (our neighbors all wait for it to rain when we cut hay)

-- Anonymous, July 16, 2001


I really like that idea, Kirk. Two BTS forums!! Maybe after people have posted there for awhile and "passed the test" we could invite them over here??! And, like Diane said, there are some folks I would invite to a party at my home, but not everyone!!!

-- Anonymous, July 16, 2001

Well, I don't object to 2 forums on principles, BUT I don't think I have the time to participate in yet another forum. I'm active on three boards now, and several email lists. I don't know that there would be enough activity.

However, if someone else, from here or CS, wanted to set up a board for discussions and be the Nazi that keeps everyone in line and playing nice and such like, they could do so. I don't have the energy for it!

-- Anonymous, July 16, 2001


Woohooo Kirk,so we get to play with animals!!! Allllrrriigghhtt

And I'm sure being properly British,David is oh so mannerly when drinking his pea pod wine.Unless he has a little too much, then he gets up on tables to dance,takes his clothes off, and lets people photograph him. We( the royal we) all have our little faults and eccentricities,so we will overlook his,from time to time.

So Kirk,what do you do when you've had a bit too much on the rocks? Do tell.

-- Anonymous, July 16, 2001


I LIKE IT! The PROBATIONARY BTS FORUM for the discerning elitist snob wannabes!

AS far as I'm concerned Jim, you did good and thanks again!

BTW, I noticed a post from Bernice of Gemini goats, wondering what this other forum was about. I e-mailed her with just a brief description of what BTS is about and she sez it sounds nice. I did NOT send her the password. I personally wouldn't mind seeing her here because she has a wealth of knowledge about goats and I don't recall EVER seeing her involved with any of the BS on CS.

I'm not pushing here folks but honestly asking a question. Has any decision been made about "new" forum members at BTS and how do they get in?

-- Anonymous, July 16, 2001


Well, John, I'm not sure we've come to any definite conclusion, but we are leaning to the "recommendation by current member" and "run it by the members". I'm going to try to work on a list of who's gotten the password so far too, for those of you who wanted to know.

-- Anonymous, July 16, 2001


Joy thats the point you wouldn't want people to be nice! Let-er-rip cause its only for our enjoyment. We could keep it juiced up by attacking gun nuts, right to lifers, Rush Limbough etc then run back behind these locked doors and laugh our heads off!!!!

Well shoot, nobody ever likes my ideas!! Whine whine. At least us Elvis lovers stick together. Right Marcia?.....Kirk

-- Anonymous, July 17, 2001


Kirk, if you want to set up such a forum, have at it. Being a CO- moderator here is quite enough for me, thanks! :-P Here, have some cheese with that whine.

-- Anonymous, July 17, 2001

Hey Joy, I left you a message over next door. You will need your decoder ring, your hat and glasses.

Kirk, you are one silly guy you know that!

-- Anonymous, July 17, 2001


Kirk, don't feel so silly, I had the same idea. Ouch! , but ya know it wouldn't be the same. Tren

-- Anonymous, July 17, 2001

Yeah Kirk, sure would be an interesting forum, though. Kinda like throwing rocks at a wasp's nest and running like Hell!!

-- Anonymous, July 17, 2001

I have received a request for access to this forum (dont worry, i'll give no one the password!), from teri "DnsMacbeth@aol.com ". She doesnt post much, but I have talked to her offline a few times, seems very nice but dont know that much about her. Guess I'm getting paranoid about spies! Anyone have any input?

-- Anonymous, July 17, 2001

Thanks Earthmama for not giving out the password. :-)

At this point I don't know what to tell you. I can add her to our "list" over on the Walden Two (admin.) forum and maybe we'll get to her in the next month or so. Seriously.

We've got quite a few of the email requestees whittled down (maybe 8 or 9 left from the original 30). But we're still discussing the remaining 8 or 9 and also any people that may have been forgotten from the original invitation... I'm getting burnt out with the whole process and I imagine Joy and Cindy are, too - that's why I say that it might take us up to a month to get back to her. I'm seriously thinking of taking a 3 week sabbatical from the Internet after we get the other 8 or 9 requestees dealt with...

If you want you can tell teri that we'll put her on the "list" but it may be a few weeks before we get back to her. We WILL get back to her eventually, though.

This has been an interesting learning experience for me. If I had this to do all over again, I'm not sure I would do it in quite the same manner. :-/

-- Anonymous, July 17, 2001


You're right, Jim, burnout R us. There must be a better way to do these things.

-- Anonymous, July 17, 2001

Oh my goodness!!!!! I've been gone 3 days helping my dad only to find out David has been drinking the pea pod wine and dancing naked!!!!!!!

Jim, it is okay if I post isn't it! I was wondering why David was apprehensive to give me the password!!! I guess I know why now!!!!

-- Anonymous, July 18, 2001


Okay Kim, thanks for being so honest. We really feel your pain. David can be a strain, of that I am sure. I can only imagine how you will feel when you find out all the trouble he instigated whilst you were gone.........so sad................but we love him anywho......

LIsten, I'm just a dumb Yank, but unless I is crazy, this is the second time I've seen a reference to pea pod wine aligned with nakedness.......is there a connection? and can I have some? (does it taste good? forget it.......who cares....).......gimme some/////

Theres a storm abrewin............Yeah........WE NEED RAIN.........

gimme shelter.............

-- Anonymous, July 18, 2001


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