two foreign mercenaries and one tosser who can go to hell if they they don't want to play for the toon. or so it seems to the folk on here.

the 2 mercenaries are 2 blokes thinking of changing jobs, who can blame them for sizing up their options, sussing out the prospects of the new employer and trying to get a better deal if they can? what would any of us do in that situation?

how many people would say "i've loved (insert employer here) all my life and i'll do anything to work for them" its just not like that is it.

the tosser, reportedly, is pissed off because the toon aren't going to be competitive next season and he wants to be. i would say that this is exactly the kind of bloke you want in your team.

the reaction to the terrible 3 on this bbs has been the usual toys out of pram approach, fine, but perhaps we are missing something, perhaps bobby R isn't the right man to turn the club around. perhaps he's lost the ability to manage people (dyer domi) and attract new blood. just a thought.

-- Anonymous, July 16, 2001

Answers

You make a reasonable point GB. However, all we have to go on to draw any conclusions is third hand reports of conversations which have allegedly taken place between players, agents, directors, manager etc. We can never know the full story and thus I don't think we should judge "mercenaries & tossers" too harshly. Equally, I would not wish to condemn the manager on the basis of these reports, although you get the uneasy feeling that just perhaps, YBR may be losing his drawing power as one of the top managers in the game.

I'm hopeful that YBR will be re-establishing that reputation during the new season and that players will soon want to come to work with a legend.

(As well as play in front of the best fans in the Premier, in the best ground in England, in a region where football is a religion not a soap, in a place where they can become Gods, if they have the ambition and the vision.)

-- Anonymous, July 16, 2001

.... and perhaps he simply doesn't have enough direct involvement in the acquisition process George to be able to exert much influence.

I suspect the "moving jobs" analogy is perfectly well understood by most people. Most of the adverse reaction on here simply mirrors the Clubs' stated frustration at players who we are told have been made good offers but appear to have then hedged for several weeks waiting for other clubs to come in make them better offers.

As a prospective employer, if people I'd made a serious offer to had behaved like that then I would assume they weren't interested enough in working for me, and withdraw the offer.
Nothing different here - unless you happen to be Zinedine Zidane, most sensible people realise can only keep your options open for so long.

-- Anonymous, July 16, 2001

you fail to see that for football supporters, loyalty is everything. It defines the game, we all support one team and are loyal to that team. In the modern game, the loyalty of players, which was minimal in any event, is being further eroded by the massive amounts of money dangeled in front of them and the unsettling effect of agents who are keen to make more and more money.

If players constantly move on or merely flock to one or two clubs, the effect will be further disillusionment from the fans.

No one suggests that players should not hold out for the deal that suits them but at least they could act professionally and not string clubs along while waiting for a better deal.

-- Anonymous, July 16, 2001

George, you're right to make the analogy between players and Joe Public changing jobs. It is one I have thought of previously. However, I think the parallel soon divides when you look a bit deeper.

(i) With the wages that these players are on, you can not draw a parallel with (m)any of us on this BBS or indeed Joe Public in general.

(ii) People on such high rewards in business are generally executives, and their remuneartion is often tied to performance. How often do we see that in football these days?

(iii) They are few and far between - again like executives and not like the general workforce.

(iv) As Lynda points out, there is a bond between teams (which players are supposed to make up) and their fan base (where much of there high earnings come from). You do not see this in business. If I were to leave my company, none of our customers would give a toss (honest!). Even if my CEO left to go to a competitor, that would not necessarily be a problem. But look at what happened at Spurs when Gooner joined them as a manager.

IMHO, the business analogy does not stack up. If it did, I suspect so many of these "want-aways" would have less success in moving on. When demand is so high and supply is so low, it skews things. As Clarky said (I think) elsewhere, the proposed changes in transfer arrangements do nothing to help this type of situation. If the clubs are in breech of contract, then the contract seems to hold. If the players are in breech, it doesn't seem to matter. As supporters (in the paying sense), we deserve better.

-- Anonymous, July 16, 2001

There is unfortunately another mindset at work here. Finding a left winger who is qualified to play for us isn't like finding a tech qualified to come in and solve a companies technical problems. Firstly, qualified techies are a dime a dozen, Left wingers are bountiful as well but maybe not as many are qualified for the top level, and then again we can be sure not all of them would want to go to a different country to play football, this cuts the numbers down that much more.

As for Dyer...I tend to think this crap is a strategy ploy to try and rework his contract. He knows his value is soaring, and if I hedge my bets, his current wages probably don't even rank him in the top 5 of our team. I bet if Freddy came in with a reworked contract for another 5 years on top of his current deal to pay him what he is actually worth and not what he was worth 2 years ago when we signed him, he'd sign in a heartbeat.

-- Anonymous, July 16, 2001

points taken. however there are millions of pro footballers in the world but perhaps a only a couple of hundred who could walk into a PL team and make a big diference. if you are one of those couple of hundred you can sit on an offer for as long as you want.

fact is that we haven't signed one of those couple of hundred since summer 1996 - dyer maybe-.

what are the criteria a player judges when signing for a team?

money - every PL team has money thx to skyTV. fans, stadium, manager's reputation, chance of winning something, nice city, colour of the strip?

if nufc can't compete with say chelsea or leeds it must mean we're lacking in one or more of those criteria. or we just don't know what we're doing.

-- Anonymous, July 16, 2001

I agree to a point but the trouble is that players are tending to have less and less inclination to join a side with potential. they want instant sucess and trophies. i suppose you can't blame them but all that is happening is that a small handful of clubs attract the best players and consequently have the best chance of winning something. It is a vicious circle and while it occurred in the past to some extent, it is far more polarised than it was.

-- Anonymous, July 16, 2001

"....... you can sit on an offer for as long as you want".

You are quite correct when you say this George, but the Clubs and their fans are also entitled in that situation to say "you clearly don't have enough desire to play for us - so thanks but no thanks!"

This is precisely what would happen in business, but if anything, more precipitously.

-- Anonymous, July 16, 2001

Years ago when international squads assembled and caps meant something the players would get together at Bisham and in their relaxing periods would chew the fat , main topic being "What your on £££". They would return to their clubs and within a month if they were not happy it would surface in the paper, pretty crude but that`s what happened,the only redeeming factor then was loyalty was more to the fore, and agents worked for the Pru. Now little naive YKD , how does it work for him, he knows that he would only warm the bench at the top 3,mmm

Move to Leeds training pitch, Davy and Rio in conversation, ....... Rio.. Hey boss, good year eh , chances for next un , fancy anyone

O`Weary, Could be struggling in mid-field, Bowyer and all that, like I told you when you joined I am still after your mate at Newcastle, problem is auld git Robson and his chairman are digging in, they are pissing themselves at fan`s reaction if they sell him to us. Ridsdale is having no joy.

RIO. OK boss , leave it to me.I`ll text him tonight and tell him toput his arse into gear if he wants to come here, we need him boss.

O`Leary, Keep me out of it , gauge his feelings, should advise him to get his agent onboard , leave it up to you Rio , have a word with Bat`s , he will know how they work up there, away to see Peter now

Rio to YKD with apolgies to Bud,,,,"WASSSSUPPPP" pal , listnen in now

Nothing surprises me now - you see its called PLAYER POWER.

-- Anonymous, July 16, 2001