Are you one? Thinking of becoming one? Ever taken a long break in your schooling?

How did you adjust? Was it hard to go from full-time working person to part-time student? Did you keep working full time? Do you think you got more or less out of your education as a returning student with other responsibilities?

I know there are some other people out there who are going back to school this fall or next year, either for graduate school or to finish up a bachelor's degree. Are you nervous? Do feel a teensy bit like you're twelve and your mom ought to take you back-to-school shopping? Or do you feel like maybe you're too old for this?

-- Anonymous, July 20, 2001

Answers

I decided this week that I'm going to try to take some programming certification classes at the UW. I realize that they days of being a self-taught web developer and actually being able to get a decent job are gone. Now everyone wants someone with a BS in Computer Science, or even a MSE. Plus, web development is like 30% programming and 70% bullshit company or institutional politics.

I was thinking about going for the MSE (Masters of Software Engineering) degree at the University where I work, but I'm not sure if I qualify to get in. They expect you to know C++ or Ada (who the fuck uses Ada?). I thought about at least getting a second BS (mine is in Anthropology, real useful) in Computer Science but it just seems so time consuming. I also thought about talking to the adviser and seeing if I could take a few undergrad courses to prepare me and then launch into the MSE.

I can take one class per semester for "free" here, although I still have to pay taxes on it. But I figured out that if I were to take one class per semester it would take like six or seven years to get my masters, and I can't imagine being at this institution for that long. I could take two classes a semester and pay for one myself, but if I were to do that I might as well just quit my job and go to the (much cheaper) University of Washington full-time and take out student loans.

But I really want to stay out of debt.

So I decided on a cert program. I can pay for that out of my own pocket, and it's only one class a week. I know there will be homework but I doubt it will be as much as if I were going for a master's degree.

First I'm going to take a non-cert "Fundamentals of Programming" because EVERYTHING I have ever done is self-taught and I've never had anybody talk to me about best practices and the like. That should be in the fall. Then in January '02 I'll take a Programming in C 9 month certification program, and when I'm done with that in I take a year long C++ certification program. In the end I may not have a CS degree, but I have a college degree, a certification in C++, and at that point 7 years of professional web development experience.

Hopefully that will get me somewhere, and if not I can always decide then to go for my MSE.

The only real scary part for me is that I am basically committing to live in Seattle for two years. I don't like to think about that. Maybe after the first year, though, I can get a better job.

-- Anonymous, July 20, 2001

I'm hoping to go back when my wife is done with her degree next May, in order to resurrect my miserable exsistance by leaving medicine -completely- behind. I have narrowed my interests down to a few different areas, but still haven't decided, which scares the shit out of me, let alone the prospect of a whole new major/degree.

I'm not too concerned with how my "peers" will accept this SOS (slightly older student)... I'm concerned with my aging mind's ability to assimilate information. I feel pretty "all business" about it. I'm going to kick ass... I learned from my prior mistakes and am a well-prepared warrior returning to battle.

-- Anonymous, July 20, 2001

I am now currently a part-time student. It's been about 10 years since I had to write a paper or take a mid-term. And it's scary as hell! But I finally decided that I'm not happy in my life career- wise right now, and I don't see how I can make a change without finishing my degree. (Let's not even talk about how long it will take me to finish going part-time, but at least I'll have accomplished something.)

It's both harder and easier than I expected. So far, I've been doing pretty well grade-wise. However, actually motivating myself to not wait until the last minute when a paper/project is due has become the issue. I keep hoping that it's because of the weather, and I won't have the same trouble in the fall once it's cold out. (Who am I kidding.)

I also am still working full-time. I considered working nights and going full-time during the day, but I'd kill myself. I also find that I get more out of my classes - I actually pay attention and listen to the lectures - I don't just coast by like I did when I first attended a decade ago. I also think I do better because I care more about my grades, and hell, I'd like to think I'm a little bit smarter at 28 than when I was 18.

But still, it's nerveracking. I almost feel like I'm a fraud for going back, I'm not sure why. When I'm at school, it's the one time I find that I enjoy not looking my age so that way I don't stand out. But although butterflies have been permanently resided in my stomach the past six weeks, it's great.

-- Anonymous, July 20, 2001

Okay, this probably doesn't count since I don't have face-to-face classes, but here goes: I'm in my third year of grad school (should finish at the end of next year--woo!), taking one class a semester instead of two, which is apparently the norm. I could not fathom it. Sometimes, even doing all the reading and writing for a single class gets to be a bit hairy, when work is also going full speed ahead. Not to mention that my classes meet at 2 or 3 a.m., my time.

I was terrified when I first went back, and the fact that my first class was research--full of statistics and very scary-looking formulas--didn't help. It was quite a shock. On the other hand, I loved being back in school. Still love it, actually. It just feels so good to stretch your brain in ways that you probably haven't since you left school, no matter how much you've tried. It just isn't the same (well, for me it isn't, anyway) to read things on your own, and maybe discuss them with a few people. There's an intensity and focus to class work and discussion, not to mention writing papers, that's hard to achieve in regular, everyday life.

I think you'll be glad to do it, Beth. Sure, sometimes you'll wonder what ever made you think you wanted to, you'll have the opportunity to rediscover the joys of last-minute paper writing and test anxiety, and all of your bad study habits from the past will come back to haunt you, but it really is stimulating. Go for it!

Plus, you have the advantage that you'll be on campus, and thus able to check out all those hot young geeks. Don't underestimate the value of the scenery.

-- Anonymous, July 20, 2001

I'll be starting back to school full-time in September. I'm enrolling in a distance-based Master of Library Science program that is run out of Emporia State in Kansas, presuming I survive the GRE tomorrow afternoon.

I'll still be working full-time while I'm doing this. The program is designed for working adults. The classes meet once a month, over a weekend and the rest of the coursework is delivered online. It's definately going to be a very different experience than my undergrad years.

I'm very nervous about going back. I'm sure that I've underestimated how much time it will take. My memories of exactly how much time I spent studying versus socializing in college have become indistinct. Also, I'm somewhat out of practice when it comes to writing term papers. Nonetheless, I think I made the right decision. When I start to panic I just remind myself that I don't HAVE to do this, I WANT to do this, I think...

As far as back-to-school shopping is concerned, I'm no longer worried about it. I heard on the news this morning that President Bush wants families to use their tax refund checks for back-to-school expenses. Very resassuring. But I must say, I just don't think that $300 is going to cover grad school tuition...

-- Anonymous, July 20, 2001

I'm just finishing an online class and I have to say, it's great. Mind you, the work is probably more intensive since you have to be really disciplined. But really, being able to take a class online is just so cool (particularly when you have a busy schedule like I do).

-- Anonymous, July 20, 2001

I went back to school at age 32. (I had tried to go at 28, but with two small kids and working full-time, it just wasn't sane.) I had to finish two undergrad semesters in order to go to grad school. (LSU doesn't usually take its own undergrads -- they want to keep diversity in the program. But I was mentored into it by the Director based on my undergrad work.) At any rate, I ended up doing the last semester of undergrad work simultaneously with the first semester of grad work.

It rocked. I was a so-so student during the undergrad years; I'd screwed off the whole first year and spent the next two trying to recover my GPA. I was scared silly to go back. (Seriously, I really thought I'd fall flat on my butt and fail. Or I'd never remember all the important stuff from undergrad to get through the grad program. Or hordes of people would see me for the fake I felt I was. And as someone who was, by then, an average of 9 or so years older than most of my classmates, I'd be woefully out of touch.) My husband knew how much I wanted to go back, knew how much I wanted that degree and drove me over to the school, made me register, made me go. Best thing he ever did.

The ability to handle the classes was far far easier when going back than the first time around. For one thing, you just know the bullshit when you see it, you know what's important, you have a better grasp or worldview with age, so you can put things in perspective. ("you" being the general 'you' and no one specific) I also found that I could handle more at a time. Multi-tasking all those years with work and kids paid off. I did a double-masters at the same time, all with 4.0, so if *I* can do it with my extreme lack of awareness / knowledge going on, I'd be willing to stake a bet that you (Beth) will soar, especially with all the reading / discussions / awareness / former education you have going for you.

My only thing is... I'd not do an MFA for writing again, or at least in the *way* that I did it. There are things I'd do differently which would have gotten me to my goal far faster. Other than that, I wouldn't trade the experience of going back as an "older" student for anything in the world.

-- Anonymous, July 20, 2001

Ooops - my name should be "plum", not midnight (my dog's name). I guess I'm spacing.

-- Anonymous, July 20, 2001

I'm thinking about it really hard right now. I've taken continuing studies classes (TM) over the last couple of years and I have definitely, definitely gotten more out of it than out of my undergrad classes. In fact, the urge to go back to school is having a lot of influence on my fairly lackadaisical job search: right now I'm looking specifically at university jobs that give me big tuition breaks (and which are also mellower and more class-friendly than the High-Powered Startup I didn't like).

-- Anonymous, July 20, 2001

So if I devote a whole section of the new forum to education, with a specific goal of attracting reentry and grad students, you guys would be interested?

-- Anonymous, July 20, 2001

Only if I could whine there about being scared to go to grad school and about still not writing my personal statement and about how I'm scared to pay so much money. And if people would occasionally stroke my hair and whisper soothingly at me and tell me good and happy stories of love and daisies and sparkly things and chipmunks and stuff. Then I'd totally be into it.

Okay, and I think it would be really interesting, provide a support network and a community and an excellent place to chat and vent and solicit good advice and talk to other smart, overeducated people and discuss intelligent things.

Short answer: "I vote yes."

-- Anonymous, July 20, 2001

I just finished my first semester of graduate school after a 7-year lapse in college. (9semester hours in four weeks kicked my butt!) It is over for this semester and I am so very happy of that. Once I got back into the swing of not doing anything but going to class, coming home and studying, and the bitching about it daily in my journal it was over.

I have the advantage of not having to work in the summer, but I would never recommend exceeding 6 hours a summer session and no more than 3 hours a long semester while working full-time, but then again I am much older, and am not a resilient as I once was

-- Anonymous, July 20, 2001

I vote yes too. Did you ever give us your whole reading list? I'd like to see that.

-- Anonymous, July 21, 2001

I vote 'yes' for a back-to-school forum, too. I think it would be great. It would be reassuring to know I'm not the only 30-something out there who's just now getting around to this.

-- Anonymous, July 21, 2001

My "break" between BA and graduate school was only two years, so I didn't really go through many of these anxieties. I was absolutely confident that I was doing the right thing, and that I would be more successful as an academic than as a corporate worker bee. Turned out I was right, but that's another story.

I want to join into this forum, however, because I'm hoping that my perspective from the other side of the desk (I'm now a tenured university professor) might be encouraging and supportive. Did you know that the average age of college students nationally is now 30 years old? This means it is highly unlikely that you will be the only returning student or student of non-traditional age in your classes. (Of course, this will vary by type of school, academic discipline, etc.)

You also should know how much most professors enjoy having non-traditional students in the mix. Returning students are, as many of you have already said, usually more focused and disciplined, and ready to do the work and do a good job. (They're also much less likely to come to us with such lame excuses for lack preparation as "I had to study for exam in my XYZ class, so I didn't have time to work on your paper." Even if that's their reason - they generally have the good sense not to SAY so.) Returning students often bring a depth and breadth of perspective to class discussions that isn't always there in groups of traditional-age college students. This is perhaps especially the case in my areas of academic expertise - I teach courses in communication and in women's studies. Let me tell you, class discussions of communication processes and practices in marriage and relationships are really enriched when, say, a 43-year-old women who has been divorced twice adds her perspective to that of the 20-year-old newly- engaged woman who insists that if you love each other, you'll never experience the kind of communication dysfunctions that I'm lecturing about that day. Sigh.

I recently wrote letters of recommendation for law school for a man who returned to finish his BA at 50, two years ago. (So far, he's been accepted by Northeastern, but he really wants to go to Harvard Law - he's hoping he can transfer second year.) He was a terrific student, enthusiastic, engaged, and eager to integrate what he was learning in my Gender & Communication class into other parts of his life. He wants to be a civil rights lawyer, and I'm confident he'll do well.

I can go on and on, obviously, but I'll stop - I just want to be completely supportive of those of you returning to school or thinking about doing so. Most of your professors are eager to have students like you in their classes, and *want* you to succeed.

-- Anonymous, July 21, 2001

I'd vote yes, too, to an eduction forum section, although I'm done with my formal eduction... my experience is recent enough to keep me interested.

And I second what Czarownica said about the professors being very receptive -- wihtout exception, I found this to be true. Same with the discussions, etc. And I certainly wasn't the oldest person going back -- in most of my classes, there were people five to ten and sometimes 20 years older than me.

-- Anonymous, July 21, 2001

I would also vote yes, and enjoy such a forum - I'll be starting the 4th year of my bachelor's in the fall... I finished the 3rd year of my bachelor's in 1998... I mostly feel - awkward - I am at a different school, for one thing, one with which I am not at all familiar. For another, I'm only 24. Now, these past 3 years have been chock full of experiences that make me definitely Older And Wiser or at least Older (I've been married for more than 2 and a half of them, just for starters), but I am not really 'old enough' to be a proper 'mature student' either - or at least, I feel old enough, but I'm usually taken for just another senior... So I don't know how I will fit in, I guess. And then I feel *impossibly* childish for even worrying about 'how I will fit in' when I haven't worried about that since I was 18 and then I get even more confused. I'm really excited though. I did all the hardest parts of my coursework junior year, so this year I only have 5 courses left in my major, 1 in my minor, and I actually get to take *ELECTIVES*. YAY! Also, I took all the mean nasty major courses already so now I only have to take interesting ones. No more Biochemistry for me! Yay! Heh. If you can't tell, it's inducing all kinds of mood swings, this prospective lifestyle change of mine.

-- Anonymous, July 21, 2001

i'd like an education section on the new forum too.

i'm going back to grad school in the fall for my MLIS. i've only had a one-year break, though. i went straight from undergrad to grad school in computer engineering. after obtaining my MS, i figured i was sick to death of comp engr and wanted nothing more to do with it for the rest of my life. so i've spent the last year saving up money and organizing my life for my second attempt at educational fulfillment.

i'm not really nervous about returning to school. i've always been happy as a student, and for once i'm studying something that i'm really interested in. i am anxious about my assistantship, though. i'm supposed to be doing coordination for two of the departmental computer labs. ack, i'm just a kid, really! what do i know about coordinating shit?

-- Anonymous, July 22, 2001

I finally wrote, yesterday, the first paragraph of my personal statement for the Master of Liberal Arts program at the Graham School, University of Chicago. Now if I can just figure out where to go with it from there, I'll be fine.

The problem is that this matters to me - getting in is what I want and what I need. So I'm scared and worried. If I could let go, just a little, I might have an easier time of this essay writing.

The classes meet either one evening a week for 3 hours, or 3 hours on Saturday - so I can work full time and do this. Assuming, of course, that the company I work doesn't go under. But that's another story.

-- Anonymous, July 22, 2001

I think an education section of the forum would be absolutely splendid. I am currently entering my second year of an M.A. in Bioarchaeology (first year was coursework, second year is thesis) and it has been a bit of an adjustment. I would really like to bounce how I felt about my first year of grad school off of other students.

-- Anonymous, July 22, 2001

Count me in. Looking forward to the new forum, Beth.

-- Anonymous, July 22, 2001

I'm going back to school within the next year. At this point I have a Certificate in Computer Information Systems and another year of college behind me.

I'm terrified. Especially since the first class I'm taking will be a math course and math is not my strong point. It won't be at least until Spring so, I can learn from of you who are going back next month.

-- Anonymous, July 23, 2001

would definately be interested... hoping to find someone who has finished up an online MBA/MBA Agr for advice/counselling/whining...

-- Anonymous, July 24, 2001

I graduated from college in '62. The first time I went back to school was only 5 years or so later at Chicago Teachers' College North to pick up education courses. I remember feeling "old"....but hippiedom was in full swing then and the other students talked all the time and never listened and the lounges were pigpens. I was a much better student than I had been 5 years earlier. The second time I went back was in 1983 when I was 42 years old to get my MLS. I was working full time, and had 2 daughters and a husband at home. I wasn't scared, but I never missed a class during the entire 3 years it took to get my MLS and I never missed an assignment. I was such a good student it was sickening! A couple of times I took 2 courses at the same time and found that very stressful with all my other obligations. I also took one or two summer school courses and I detest the pressure of those concentrated courses. But it was all worth it in the long run and I enjoyed going to school. Now I take courses here at the university where I work for fun: last semester "Life of Birds" (bird evolution, anatomy, identification, etc.) and next semester "Amateur Naturalist" I'm still an excellent student as I take them for credit to make myself learn more and I'm sure the other students probably hate me for ruining the curve. :-)

-- Anonymous, July 24, 2001

Like Czarownica, I am on the other side of the desk-- an assistant prof. in the English department of a university. Also like Czarownica, I have had (and heard) nothing but positive and encouraging reactions to returning students.

I'd like to wish everyone here the best-- and if it is wanted, share whatever information I have. But I also do not want to tread on any toes. So if this is to be a student-only forum, I'll keep my mouth shut and learn.

-- Anonymous, July 25, 2001

No, no, definitely not students-only. You're all welcome!

-- Anonymous, July 25, 2001

From the other, other side of things(?)-

While I attended Uni around the "traditional" age, the vast majority of my classmates were decidedly non-traditional. In comparing my experience there with my later fulltime post-grad experience (filled with snot-nosed kids my own age), I much prefer the mix offered in my undegrad experience. Definitely a positive data-point for the "diversity counts" argument.

-- Anonymous, July 25, 2001

I am a returning student, several times over. First of all, I dropped out of college and got married as a teenager, and then went back to school after my divorce at age 21. It took me six years to finish because I couldn't decide what to major in---I finally did psych because it let you count the most electives. Like a lot of "non-traditional students," I had to work the whole time I was in school, which I think contributed a lot to my maturity and motivation.

Then, I went into a doctoral program in biomedical sciences. Several years in I realized I had made a mistake, but kept going for four years until I just couldn't take it any more, and got a terminal Master's degree.

After working in biomedical research for two years, and exploring a number of options (including medical school, a creative writing program, and clinical psychology), I finally realized that what I really love the most was the major I started out with all those years ago---music. So I am now getting a MM in Music Performance. Because I didn't have very many undergraduate credits in music, I have had to take two whole years of undergraduate coursework as prerequisites. However, I love what I am doing for the first time in years, so I don't care. I keep seeing undergraduates in my classes switch majors when their parents pressure them or they get discouraged about the job prospects in music (as I did many years ago), and I feel sorry for them. I guess some people can be happy just living for the weekend, but I have to do something I really care about.

I have had to work full time or close to full-time most of the time I have been in the MM program. I have also been enrolled in school full time, taking up to eight classes a semester. Fortunately, I am single and childless (and I am probably going to stay that way if I keep up this schedule!). I appreciate my classes a lot more and take them much more seriously since I am getting this degree for ME, and not to "get a job," "make my parents happy," boost my self-esteem, etc. I know I'm a capable, intelligent person, and I don't have anything to prove. I also am willing to put up with a lot less bullshit from professors and the administration than I did the first time around. Since I also taught a class in another department the first three semesters back to school, I know what is reasonable to demand of students, and what is not. I also know what quality instruction looks like, and expect it from my professors, since I am, after all, paying for my own education.

I do have to say that I see a real problem in music programs with accomodating the schedules of working students. You wouldn't think it would be this way in a graduate program, but no program of music I looked into had night or weekend classes. Also, NO distance learning at all...which I can understand for, say, piano lessons, but not for more academic classes.

Anyway, I have to say I am a believer in lifelong learning, whether you're seeking a degree or not. I can't imagine not having some learning project in my life, whether it's as structured as a college course or as laid back as teaching myself from self-study guides. For me, life without such new challenges would be intolerably boring. Best of luck to all you folks starting school this Fall!

kathykat

-- Anonymous, July 25, 2001

Am I the only one not going to grad school? Sigh.

And am I the only one who hates the words "research paper." I'd much rather take a test everyday.

But I love being in school guys - I actually feel like I'm regaining the brain cells I lost at work (which is a lot).

-- Anonymous, July 26, 2001

You just outlined exactly why I'm going to school, Plum.

And not everyone here is a grad student. Jeremy is here only in spirit, but he's an undergrad. The other day I suggested that he get an MS when he's done, and I thought he was going to hit me with an axe.

-- Anonymous, July 26, 2001

I am so glad I went back to college. I'm in my third undergrad year now, and I enjoy almost everything about where I go. The professors are great to talk to, I feel like I'm actually learning, and it's fun to hang out with people twelve years younger than I am. No one ever believes I'm a grownup, so I don't feel the stigma that other older students mention. Hell, I even went on spring break with a bunch of them this year!

I don't know what I'm going to do when I stop going, or even when I'll stop going. I want a Master's, and I think if that's not too crazy/hectic/stressful, then maybe I'll get on of those PhD things the kids are all clamoring for these days. For the most part, I think I can handle a workload that most of the younger students can't. For example, I'm taking 20 credits next quarter, which seems to blow everyone's mind when I say that, but this is a college that's based on a quarter system, so it's not as intense as I think semesters are. I love having quarters so that I don't feel bogged down with any particular class or professor for too long, and there are only ten weeks in a quarter. When you look at it that way, it doesn't seem so bad, does it?

I'm also one of those rare people who attends college full-time without working, so there's another advantage I have over some people, I guess. I also take "fun" classes, like poetry and newspaper, because I don't think my learning experience should be a chore. It's sad to see so many kids just plug their way through classes that they're only taking for diploma requirements, and a lot of them wish they could take certain classes, but it would mean they would be in school longer, which costs more money, and they're all just dying to go out into the real world and work and pay off their college loans as fast as they can. Crazy college kids. I love them.

God, am I a gushing nerd or what?

-- Anonymous, July 27, 2001