WE, like so many homesteaders,eat wild game that is available in our area.There are deer and rabbit and grouse to mention a few here in WV. The recent article in Countryside had shooting tips for catching wild game and how to prepare to freeze and so on. We enjoyed the article and maybe we have learned something for the future...but we may never have a chance to try out this man's advice because of what is happening in CA, at the present time,our deer rifles may be illegal and stand to be confiscated if we live there. Do we as country folk know what is happening out there in Ca ? Are we as the people standing up for our right to have a gun and live our life style as homesteaders ?Would like to hear from other Countrysiders on this subject...

-- Renea Miller (dodson07@yahoo.com), August 27, 2001

Answers

Okay, I'm afraid I'm in the dark here. What is going on in CA? Can you please explain? Are they trying to pass laws against deer rifles? If so, I'd sure hate to be one of the people in charge of confiscating them! Better have some full body armor! Please enlighten me!

-- Cheryl in KS (cherylmccoy@rocketmail.com), August 27, 2001.

I don't think you will have to worry too much about it Renea.

In 1989, the California made the possession of 'assault weapon' illegal. Without proper registration of the gun, they warned, people would have to turn them in or face major fines. Lots of public service announcements, lots of 'opinion columnists' telling the public to turn in their guns or face the consequences.

At the time, it was estimated that over 350,00 guns that fell under the description given were owned by Californians. Despite the threats, only about 25,000 owner registered their weapons. The rest of them either sold them, turned them in or told the California legislature to go to hell. My feeling was that the last category had the majority.

Can you imagine the press showing police kicking down private citizens doors to take their deer rifles? Talk about a firestorm, man, I could see people marching to Washington on this one, led by Charleton Heston and the NRA. I think the government is smarter than that (or I hope they are), that would get some people extemely ticked off. Assault weapons is one thing, guns used to procur food and protect livestock is quite another.

-- j.r guerra (jrguerra@boultinghousesimpson.com), August 27, 2001.

Not going to happen, in Germany, under Hilter's reign of terror, folks still had their deer rifles.

-- Annie Miller in SE OH (annie@1st.net), August 27, 2001.

Renea, If that is your fear then its no better time than NOW go buy your guns. Add your name to the gun supporters list. Let them know they cant take your firearms. Depending on where you live, you may or may not have to register guns. I am lucky, I dont have to. If I buy from a dealer I do have to fill out federal forms. So I buy from non dealers and the issue is gone.

-- Gary (gws@redbird.net), August 27, 2001.

Talk about paranoia going loose, and people believing the partial truths being told to them. Anywhere there are rural areas and populations encroaching wild animals, the wild animal population is going to need to be controlled - hunting. Every state has a "fish and wildlife" department that figures out the hunting seasons and quotas and administers hunting lisences and regulations. Hunting will not be able to go away, but some control of "assault weapons" is needed. Noone can convince me they need an Uzi to hunt deer - it's just an excuse to keep weapons that have no purpose. Also, my husband hunts every winter, I still have some venison in the jars, we have a gun cabinet in the living room (locked) with several long guns and several pisols. Sometimes someone proposes a law with good intentions, and after it's out people find the unintended consequenses of it and they are changed. Many folks from the boonies don't understand that these gun laws are proposed by big city dwellers where the need for some laws are necessary. And I don't buy into the notion that if they take away our rocket launcher that they're going to take away all weapons.

-- Joan Murray (alandjoan@juno.com), August 27, 2001.

Our government has a strong history of telling partial truths. You know that right? Nobody has an Uzi for the intent of hunting deer and yes those kinds of guns do serve a purpose. The 2nd Ammendment wasn't written for the sake of hunting. Maybe the laws they pass today won't affect you personally, but what about a generation or two from now? Will you feel the same way when they come for the handguns you own? Sure that seems impossible now but alot can change in a decade or a few. The laws are working their way towards that goal whether you realize it or not. Guns laws have little to do with reducing crime and the facts prove that, it's just the excuse they use and it works well because it plays on peoples fears. I moved to CA 18 months ago. I had to give up the right to possess certain guns I owned, they now sit 800 miles away, useless to me. I had to give up the right to carry a handgun on my person, as I legally did for many years in other states I lived in. Self-protection is not a valid reason to be issued a concealed carry permit here in CA and most counties don't issue them for any reason. I came here with a clean record and a CCW issued by another state. I can't buy ammunition in Los Angeles county without being fingerprinted. So, is there less crime here because of all these restrictions? No. More innocent people dying because they can't excercise a right to defend themselves? Yes. A population at the every whim of their government and little means to defend themselves if it ever gets out of control? Yes.

"Although we give lip service to the notion of freedom, we know the government is no longer the servant of the people but has become the people's master. We have stood by like timid sheep while the wolf killed--first the strays, then those on the outer edges of the flock, until at last the entire flock belonged to the wolf." -Gerry Spence

-- Dave (something@somewhere.com), August 27, 2001.

This is going to be 2 parts.

I don't know if it was here or someplace else I saw somebody mention that during "pre" 1968 time when you could buy guns thru the mail,at drug stores,etc. that we had less shootings then than we do now which is correct but why? What has happened in 33yrs to change people to be more violent? More laws are not the answer,everybody knows that, but yet that is all we seem to be able to come up with as a answer.WHY?

2nd,all the guns will never be completely elimated,that would be next to impossible considering the amount out there,plus given people like me who "FROM MY DEAD COLD FINGERS", but I do believe that new guns,ammo and sales,etc. will be seriously constricted in the future more so than even now. You have to realize that on a whole people are changing,we always have been. You don't do things like your parents,and your parents didn't do things like theirs. We don't live like they did in 1865 or even like 1965,things change and that is what is happening now. Most of us, like me at age 49 do not want change,we want things to be the same as we remember growing up,we want to keep old ways,old habits,etc. and guns are part of that,but for the children they may not be and as they grow older and more affulent hunting and guns probably won't be a part of their world. There are things you can do to postpone the change but not stop it. The future is theirs not ours.We can only help guide them to it with character and strength and hope they have a world worth living in,and hope they don't blame us too much if its not.

-- TomK(mich) (tjk@cac.net), August 27, 2001.

Normally I avoid answering these type of post, but this one I just have to.

Second amendment? People conveniently use only a portion of the amendment. In order to maintain a well-regulated state militia, the right of people... Just how many gun owners belong to a "well- regulated state militia"? Sorry, but the times where different when that amendment was enacted.

Over the years I have been in Japan, New Zealand, England, Scotland, Norway, Denmark, Sweden, Croatia, Germany, the Netherlands and Belgium. All have very strict gun control laws on handguns and lesser controls on hunting weapons. All have a very, very low rate of crime. Is there a correlation? I happen to think so!

To me, handguns only serve the purpose of killing at close range. Are even semi-autos needed to hunt? Either be able to take the game down with the first shot, allowing reloading time, or don't hunt.

Sorry, but you won't find a bleeding heart liberal here.

-- Ken S. in WC TN (scharabo@aol.com), August 27, 2001.

There is a verse on a CD of mine." Now they are trying to take my guns away, and that would be just fine, If you take them away from the criminals first, I will gladly give you mine."

-- tracy (murfette@stargate.net), August 27, 2001.

If England-style gun-control laws were imposed (only law enforcement officers - who didn't start to wear sidearms until fairly recently - and those with a special need, e.g., armored car guards, are allowed handguns and civilians can own bolt action rifles and shotguns), it would take many years to be effective.

How might it work? Make the penalty for a crime involving either a handgun or other unauthorized weapon an automatic 20-year sentence to be served before the penalty for the crime. It cannot be plead down.

Anyone caught with an illegal weapon has an automatic sentence of three years. No deals.

Immediately halt the production and importation of weapons outside those authorized. Resist the sale of ammunition to those with a permit. Their availability will gradually dry up.

True the counties I mentioned don't have the drug problem we do, but I'd rather face an unarmed crazed junkie and than an armed one.

-- Ken S. in WC TN (scharabo@aol.com), August 28, 2001.

first Annie the gun control act of 1968 is a word for word english translation of the 1938 NAZI weapons law, which is why you have to put your race on the paperwork when you buy from a licensed dealer. the NAZI's used their law to completely disarm Jews, Gypsies and other dangerous types. NAZI Gemany had a lower crime rate than all of the countries Ken mentioned. in Japan it is perfectly legal to beat a "confession" out of a suspect, the Yakuza openly and illegally carry guns. in England handguns are effectively banned, shotguns are limited to break open types and hunting rifles are severely restricted. as for English justice, ask the Guilford Four or ask the Irish why they have spent the last 400 years kicking the English out. as Scotland reverts to home rule high on the agenda is repeal of the English gun laws because of the subsequent and disproportionate rise in violent crime. all three of the Scandinavian countries were the subject of a turf war between their resident chapters of the Hells Angels and the Banditos. during this war both sides used various land mines, US made 66mm M72 Light Anti-Armor Weapon (LAAW) rockets, and Russian made RPG-7 & RPG-2 rocket propelled grenades on multiple occasions in all three countries. to date no one in this country has ever used weapons of this type criminally. New Zealand has similar but not as drastic gang violence problems with their Maori and Polynesian gangs that are affiliated with our Bloods & Crips. The Netherlands is famous as an open air drug market and the social problems that go with it. on the other side Switzerland requires all adult males to join their "national guard", after they complete their training they are required to keep their full automatic assault rifle at home with a at least 200 rounds. they are also required to qualify 2x a year at government expense, after 20 years they are no longer required to keep their weapon or to qualify but may do so if they choose. Switzerland has a lower crime rate than all of the countries Ken listed and has not been involved in any war for over 400 years.

-- Pops (cindy556@devil-dog.com), August 29, 2001.

Wow. Almost the full gamut of typical responses.

In most places it is rather easy to acquire whatever kind of gun you want without buying it from a dealer and filling out the federal paperwork. I'm not familiar with West Virginia, but I'm willing to bet that you could do it there.

I'm talking about private sales, or what the media calls the "GUNSHOW LOOPHOLE!" It isn't a loophole, it's private people making a private sale of their private property. Many places have guns advertised for sale in the classified ads, you can find them in flea markets and at gunshows. If you buy the weapon in a private sale there is no paperwork and the government doesn't know that you have it unless you are dumb enough to tell them about it. Some states have passed laws that require people making private sales to go to a licensed gun dealer and fill out a transfer form, but this is widely ignored. Ammunition is easy to obtain and fairly cheap, get it in bulk while you still can.

Interestingly, the Supreme Court has consistently ruled that the "people" in the second ammendment is the same as the "people" in the first ammendment: which means that if every one has the right to free speech and religious free exercise, then everyone has the right to firearms, but from a strict constitutional standpoint, only those weapons that would have military value. The classic case back in 1934 (I think) had the government making the argument that a sawed off shotgun didn't have any military value, and thus could be prohibited. The defense never showed up and the gov won a default judgement.

Even more interestingly, the Attorney General recently- as in a few weeks ago- issued an AG Opinion in which he stated that it is the opinion of the AttyGen of the US that the second ammendment guarantees the right of all people to own weapons. Bet you didn't see that in the news, as the online news outlets pulled the story within hours of its posting and the talking heads never mentioned it.

Finally, a few anectdotal points: it is estimated that there are over a BILLION long guns in the US. Most of the popular models were in production for more than 100,000, and the number of models that have been in production for years is staggering. It is estimated that there are several hundred million pistols in this country. For this government to try to collect these guns, it would require nothing short of declaring martial law and house to house searches, and even that wouldn't get a good chunk of them. This won't stop them from passing more restrictive laws, though.

As to hunting guns vs military guns, it's a no brainer. I have guns that I bought to hunt with, and I have guns that are purely for shooting people. You see, I am in far more danger from people who might wish to harm me or my family than I am from the deer and turkey on the back 40. We live way back up the hollow, and it's like the classic line goes: "Call for a cop, call for an ambulance and call for a pizza. See which one shows up first." If trouble comes, either I handle it or the bad guys win. All the cop is going to do is write a report, and I am quite determined that if he has to come out to my place, I'm going to be the one to tell the story.

My advice is to get a Gun Traders Guide and purchase whatever weapons you might need (as well as a few extra for the kids) as soon as possible, and get plenty of ammo while you're at it. It won't be long before it will be very difficult to buy weapons, and I'd say that crime is only going to get worse. Besides: firearms tend to hold their value pretty well, and it's far better to have them and not need them than to get hurt or die because you weren't able to defend yourself.

-- Gunnar (gunnar@yifan.net), August 30, 2001.

Ken S., I totally agree with part of your second post, but disagree with most of the latter.

I agree that having an additional charge of using a firearm during a crime SHOULD have a strong penalty with no chance of pleading down. Might not be a deterrent, but will definitely make the criminal think twice and keep the guilty incarcerated a much longer time; murder is now a 10 - 15 year incarceration with good behavior.

The part I don't agree with is that firearms / ammunition supply will dry up. Criminals do not depend on legal firearm gun dealers; they deal with WHOEVER has guns for sale. The black market is incredible; I understand that you can buy a FULLY AUTOMATIC AK-47 for the price of $30 - 50 bucks! Would people begin to smuggle firearms into this country if it were illegal! DURN TOOTIN'; they already smuggle tons of cocaine, pot, heroin, not to mention all kinds of other things into our country.

The law of supply and demand: if someone wants it bad enough, someone else will fill the demand. The old demand is that criminals need firearms to commit their crimes. The new demand would be that the intended victims would be forced to buy firearms on the black market to protect themselves from becoming victims of criminals. That would be a new war for the government to wage on. The ironic thing is that self protection now will become a crime. I sure hope it doesn't come to that.

-- j.r. guerra (jrguerra@boultinghousesimpson.com), August 30, 2001.

A fully auto AK47 would be pretty cool for shooting things like rabbits or pigeons!!

hehehehe!

-- Craig (ruskie@absolutevodka.fsnet.co.uk), September 02, 2001.