There is rumor going around that the terrorist attack on N. York was predicted by Nostradamus. There are so many interpretations to Nostradamus that some times I feel that the imagination of some people runs wild. Has anyone heard about this?

Enrique

-- Enrique Ortiz (eaortiz@yahoo.com), September 14, 2001

Answers

--@--

-- Enrique Ortiz (eaortiz@yahoo.com), September 14, 2001.

About an hour after my original message I found the following:

The following is being circulated and being attributed to Nostradamus as if he foresaw the horror in New York, Washington and Pennsylvania on September 11, 2001. Nostradamus foresaw nothing of the kind and these alleged quatrains are hoaxes.

The French text and translations are from Nostradamiama.

---------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------

In the year of the new century and nine months, From the sky will come a great King of Terror... The sky will burn at forty-five degrees. Fire approaches the great new city..."

In the city of York there will be a great collapse, 2 twin brothers torn apart by chaos while the fortress falls the great leader will succumb third big war will begin when the big city is burning.

The first two lines seem to be an alteration of Centuries X quatrain 72:

L'an mil neuf cens nonante neuf sept mois Du ciel viendra vn grand Roy d'effrayeur

or, in English

The year 1999 seven months From the sky will come the great King of Terror.

There is no reference in Nostradamus to "the new century and nine months" that I can find.

The next two lines are from Centuries VI, quatrain 97.

Cinq & quarante degrez ciel bruslera, Feu approcher de la grand cité neuue,

At forty-five degrees the sky will burn, Fire to approach the great new city:

Some have speculated that this refers to the latitude of New York, but the latitude in Central Park is 40° 47' N. The remainder of VI.97 is

Instant grand flamme esparse sautera, Quand on voudra des Normans faire preuue,

In an instant a great scattered flame will leap up, When one will want to demand proof of the Normans.

Of course, there are several people named Norman living in New York City and Washington.

---------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------

There are other hoax versions going around. See David Emery's Urban legends and folklore page on About.com.

These hoaxes are almost as disgusting and nauseating as Silvia Brown's claim that she predicted the disaster but couldn't tell us the details in advance because she's not "omniscient." For once, she speaks the truth!

---------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------

According to David Emery, one of the hoaxed versions was written a few years ago by a student named Neil Marshall "to demonstrate...that the writings of Nostradamus are so cryptic that they can be interpreted to mean almost anything." (Emery seems to have gotten this information from Barbara and David P. Mikkelson's Urban Legends page.) If we have some imagination we can retrofit just about any passage to any event. As an example of this seeing the meaning after the fact, read the following e-mail I received regarding my dismissal of the bogus predictions.

You assumed that "At 45 degrees the sky will burn" made reference to the physical location of the "attack"... I am not familiar with the sun's placement in NY at 9:00am (time) is, but maybe there are alternatives regarding the 45 degrees???? (location, time, flight trajectory, etc.).

Obviously the "great new city" fits?!?!

Also, I do not speak French, but could "Normans" refer to "North Americans"????

And this proof... could it be reference to our proof of the perpetrators prior to US retaliation???

Lastly, the farther away a prediction, the more one would anticipate a discrepancy. The fact that he's within a decade seems crazy enough. Perhaps with further thought, a strong tie could be found???

First, I didn't interpret anything. The e-mail I saw did the interpreting. I just passed on the interpretation. But you can see how many other interpretations one could give to the passage. If you are clever enough and willing to work at it long enough, I'm sure you can come up with something convincing about "At 45 degrees the sky will burn." Likewise for all the other quatrains, hoaxes or not. I think Mr. Marshall had the right idea.

I usually have about 300-400 hits a week on the Nostradamus entry. I've had over 125,000 in the past three days. The SD had over 702,000 hits the day after the terrorist attacks and over one million hits the past three days. We usually get about 9-10,000 a day.

September 13, 2001

What is your opinion on all that?

Enrique

-- Enrique Ortiz (eaortiz@yahoo.com), September 14, 2001.

Jmj

Hello, Enrique.
What you have already reported about this "prophecy" being a hoax is most important. However, something more needs to be said about Nostradamus.

Catholic historian Dr. Warren H. Carroll replied to a questioner yesterday as follows: "Nostradamus [1503 - 1566] was an astrologer and probably an occultist. The Church does not accept astorology and fears occultism. Please get away from him. Why take chances with such a man?"

If we turn to the online (1913) Catholic Encyclopedia, we find that this evil man does not even have an entry assigned to him. His name is found in only two articles in the massive work -- "Astrology" and "Imposters." How appropriate!

The first article states: "Among the zealous patrons of [astrology] were the Medici. Catharine de Medici made astrology popular in France. She erected an astrological observatory for herself near Paris, and her court astrologer was the celebrated 'magician,' Michel de Notredame (Nostradamus), who in 1555 published his principal work on astrology ..."

The second article (which briefly names Nostradoofus) begins with the following words: "Under this heading [Imposters] we may notice a certain number of objectionable characters who, while not of sufficient importance to claim separate treatment, have at various epochs so far achieved notoriety or caused disturbance in the Church by their mendacity or their moral turpitude, that they cannot be entirely passed over in such a work as the present. That there would be hypocrites who would take advantage of a profession of piety to mask their own evil designs had been clearly foretold by Christ in the Gospels. 'Beware of false prophets,' He had said, 'who come to you in the clothing of sheep, but inwardly they are ravening wolves' (Matthew 7:15), and again 'there will rise up false Christs and false prophets and they shall show signs and wonders, to seduce (if it were possible) even the elect' (Mark 13:22)."

St. James, pray for us.
God bless you.
John


-- (jgecik@amdg.ihs), September 14, 2001.

All this was predicted by Jesus-Christ. Jesus-Christ knew all about our past, present and futur because He always been and will always be the personification of God's love for all of us. Nostradamus has nothing to do with what is happening in the world today.

Please please please read the New Testament more than once for your own good. Before you read the Bible, in the name of Jesus-Christ, ask our Loving God of mercy to send you Holy-Ghost to help you understand what you will have trouble to understand in the Bible.

God bless you.

Thanks.

-- Nathalie.Kanyinda. (spiritologyalphaomega@hotmail.com), September 22, 2001.

Maybe the terroist read the hoax writings for Nostradamus and decided to act on these hoax in order to scare the West to succumb to the terriost acts. Or maybe this happened in order to bring humanity closer to God, prayer and peace.

-- Arlene Green Sky (agreensky@aol.com), September 23, 2001.

"The year 1999, seven months From the sky will come the great King of Terror To resuscitate the great King of the Mongols. Before and after Mars reigns by good luck." I know what this means, The President is the anti-christ. He made a speech that day (remember).He stole the election. He brang us into war.Also,the anti-christ is said to have a former powerful individual (his dad). He is said to trick us into war.He's already got us into war.He's going to lead us to our doom.Trust me i know what I'm talking about.I have more evidence, just e-mail me if you want more information.

-- Julio Ayala (TexMexKing15 @aol.com), December 23, 2001.

Julio,

I think you have President Bush and Al Gore mixed up ! Please pray for the unborn children, and a end to abortion.

God Bless You.

David S

-- David S (asdzxc8176@aol.com), December 23, 2001.

Dear Julio,
Why didn't you post this last year, before it came to pass? You could have saved some poor innocent people. If everything's so clear to you, you are just as much to blame as the evil men who came to New York in September. Shame on you, but have a nice holiday! Lol!

-- eugene c. chavez (chavezec@pacbell.net), December 23, 2001.

"Trust me i know what I'm talking about." (Julio Ayala)

Isn't that what the founders of 30,000+ Protestant denominations have told gullible people through the years, WHO-lio?

-- (_@_._), December 25, 2001.

I'm saying that of what i think because there is alot of things are going on and i have a feeling that pesident bush is involved in a way. Those firefighter are truly are heros.I feel for those who lost their friends and loved ones. I just think that the President is wrong in some evil way.Look at the facts of what the Anti-Christ should be like and you would see how many similarities he has. And Happy Holidays To You!

-- Julio Ayala (Tex Mex King 15@aol.com), January 04, 2002.

I'm saying that of what i think because there is alot of things are going on and i have a feeling that pesident bush is involved in a way. Those firefighter are truly are heros.I feel for those who lost their friends and loved ones. I just think that the President is wrong in some evil way.Look at the facts of what the Anti-Christ should be like and you would see how many similarities he has. And Happy Holidays To You!

P.S. - If You can Prove I'm wrong, then i'm truly sorry for what i said.

-- Julio Ayala (Tex Mex King 15@aol.com), January 04, 2002.

And you Chavez, what are you trying to say that I'm resposible for the deaths. you must got me f@#$ up! Sorry For My Language Lol!And besides, didnt know this info until after september 11.so there!

-- (Tex Mex King 15@aol.com), January 04, 2002.

You can't be the real TexMex King; I am! Ha! (Safado!)

-- eugene c. chavez (chavezec@pacbell.net), January 04, 2002.

Gene,
What does "safado" mean? I've never seen it before.
Thanks. JFG

-- (jfgecik@hotmail.com), January 05, 2002.

Well-- I use it flippantly for Julio. I think he has a sense of humor, as most Mexicans do, and won't easily take offense. Safado probably stems from the word loose, or escaped. (Safar.) In the slang expression, it stands for loony; somebody who's slipped his chain, or busted out of an asylum. But it's a kidder's term. Nowadays, Mexicans like to bandy about a dumber term for safado. ''Buey'', or OX. Nothing is much stupider. Let's ask Enrique, if he's onboard.

-- eugene c. chavez (chavezec@pacbell.net), January 05, 2002.

Since you sought me out to answer the question about "safado", here I am. May be John had difficulty in finding it in his dictionary because Eugene mispelled it. It is written ZAFADO, and in fact it has the meanings that Gene gave. About the other word very often used, BUEY: It really means ox, but in the popular and familiar way it is now pronunced as "guey" (gouey) to kind of make a distinction between the ox and a stupid person. Among the young it has lost almost the pejorative tone and it is used all the time:

--qué tal, guey ¿cómo estás?

-- bien, ¿y tú guey?

-- ahí pasándola, guey.

And so on and on.

Enrique

-- Enrique Ortiz (eaortiz@yahoo.com), January 06, 2002.

------Haha!

I never looked it up in a dictionary, but I heard it often as a kid in school. Ese was the common greeting then, 'Que hubo, ese?' In much the same tone as zafado and buey, we used 'menso' and 'que bruto!' The one I hated from the start, and have always considered super-vulgar was 'vato'.

If TexMexKing is a good sport, I'll say, 'Ese Julio-- no vengas aqui con esas tarugadas', y ya por dios, vete a confesar!' Ha ha!

-- eugene c. chavez (chavezec@pacbell.net), January 06, 2002.

YOU need god chavez.

-- Julio Ayala (Tex Mex King 15@aol.com), January 07, 2002.

Tell me about it, Julio. I have Jesus Christ, the Father Son and Holy Ghost. I have the Catholic Church, all the spiritual advantages a sincere Christian could wish for. What have you got better? With your post like it seemed, I thought you had a lot of superstition. But that's not so unusal with our people, who know no better. I thought you could take a joke, too. So I called you Zafado. Maybe you aren't, but that's how you come off. You are almost surely baptised in the catholic Church as well. Is there some problem, why you seem unhappy?

-- eugene c. chavez (chavezec@pacbell.net), January 07, 2002.

Tell me about it, Julio. I have Jesus Christ, the Father Son and Holy Ghost. I have the Catholic Church, all the spiritual advantages a sincere Christian could wish for. What have you got better? With your post like it seemed, I thought you had a lot of superstition. But that's not so unusal with our people, who know no better. I thought you could take a joke, too. So I called you Zafado. Maybe you aren't, but that's how you come off. You are almost surely baptised in the Catholic Church as well. Is there some problem, why you seem unhappy?

-- eugene c. chavez (chavezec@pacbell.net), January 07, 2002.

Maybe I do have a problem with my life, but I doubt it's any of your buisness. Ok whatever I'm just saying what I thought. You don't have to act like an asshole.

-- Julio Ayala (Tex Mex King 15 @aol.com), February 04, 2002.

Julio,
If I made you feel bad by not taking you seriously, I'm sorry. You didn't realise I was joking for a while. I only asked you if you're unhappy because I think you could be a fine Catholic, and you are separated from your Church.

These things happen all the time to good people. Mexicans as well as others. But they're just temporary. ''Temporal'' in Spanish, Ha! I started to say you are almost certainly a baptised Catholic, with your own padrinos, etc.,-- Because you challenge me, Compadre. You said: ''U need God, Chavez.'' Then I explain all the faith gives me; and I want you to tell us, what do you get out of ''predicting the future'', like a witch? Nothing.

You aren't so ignorant; I see you are very capable with a computer, and the Internet. So-- let's get together in this site-- you can be picked up, and helped to recover your lost faith. It's the holy faith-- Santa Fe-- of your grandfathers and grandmothers for centuries back. Be happy again; stay here and try to learn what's really valuable in your life.

It's God who brought you to this little corner of the Web; not by accident are you in touch with your religion. Start going to Church more; Julio-- You have many wonderful things to look forward to. God is trying to find you.

-- eugene c. chavez (chavezec@pacbell.net), February 07, 2002.

"Normans" mean Northmen or the Vikings from Scandanavia when the norwegeians,sweeds & danes sailed the norwegian seas

-- N8te (nateypoo_69@yahoo.com), March 12, 2003.