National ID Card : LUSENET : Freedom! self reliance : One Thread

I saw this, and thought it was interesting. It will strat a great debate.

Oracle boss urges national ID cards, offers free software Idea driven by security concerns

Broaching a controversial subject that has gained visibility since the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks, Oracle Chairman and CEO Larry Ellison is calling for the United States to create a national identification card system -- and offering to donate the software to make it possible.

Under Ellison's proposal, millions of Americans would be fingerprinted and the information would be placed on a database used by airport security officials to verify identities of travelers at airplane gates.

``We need a national ID card with our photograph and thumbprint digitized and embedded in the ID card,'' Ellison said in an interview Friday night on the evening news of KPIX-TV in San Francisco.

``We need a database behind that, so when you're walking into an airport and you say that you are Larry Ellison, you take that card and put it in a reader and you put your thumb down and that system confirms that this is Larry Ellison,'' he said. Or you can read the entire story -

-- bill (, September 23, 2001


"Those who would give up freedom for security deserve neither."

Ben Franklin (Paraphrase)

Talk to you later

-- Bob in WI (, September 23, 2001.

Well, there isn't much debate from me. Ole Ben was right on! Was it "liberty for security"? Check out the people who would like everyone to have this:

Smart Cards

-- (, September 23, 2001.

I have no problem with National ID cards since I will never have one. I refuse out of principle. My good old fingerprints are on file with the FBI because of my previous work at maximum-security prisons, so I guess it is a moot point. I refuse to be tagged like some cow going up the ramp to the slaughterhouse. The ubiquitous "they" can make me have a card when they jump my hog-wired electrified fence, get through my dogs and wrench my 12 gauge out of my, would you like to hear how I really feel? LOL

-- lesley (, September 23, 2001.

Well, they have already tested the chip in some professor and found that it works. They had to take it out because it becomes part of the body if it remains for long.

They also have the bar code labels marked "H" and "F" meaning hand and forehead. It won't be long now. But, I think we will see a war on home soil before they can put that into effect.

-- Stephanie Nosacek (, September 24, 2001.


Where did you get this information? I would like to read more on the subject. Thanks

Talk to you later.

-- Bob in WI (, September 24, 2001.

To be honest, I ride the fence. A National Id card is a great idea and in the same breath it is horrible. All of my arguments will have a flip-side. 1.) It is great because you can use it for identification purposes. The bad thing is that is identifies you and your movements (Not that I have anything to worry about, but I just don't want to feel like I am under a microscope). 2.) If you were to come up missing, I would like to know that they could look at my routine to see where I possibly might be. On the flip side - If I WANT to go missing, I would not want them to have any indication that I have been to certain places. I am sure Chandra Levy's parents would support this idea. I am not sure if they can track your location through the card, if they can we are already in trouble. Our Drivers License has magnetic strips on them with our info. We have "E-Z Tags" on our cars to drive on the Tollways. I don't think the ID Card must be on you at all times, I view it as another form of ID. I do agree with the argument that if you say you are person XYZ at an airport, the fingerprint id may say otherwise. That would call for a security officer I am sure. We do so much already that can give our physical location away - Cell phones, GIS software packages in cars, credit cards, debit cards. Is it that really bad to have a natyional ID Card system? Please argue your point. I need to have the bad pointed out to me.

-- Bill (, September 24, 2001.

read this - hope it helps you guys get it all squared away.

ORACLE's Ellison said in the electronic age, little privacy is left anyway.

"Well, this privacy you're concerned about is largely an illusion,'' he told PIX's anchorman Hank Plante. "All you have to give up is your illusions, not any of your privacy. Right now, you can go onto the Internet and get a credit report about your neighbor and find out where your neighbor works, how much they earn and if they had a late mortgage payment and tons of other information."

-- jason (, September 24, 2001.

Jason, that doesn't help me get squared away at all. I don't do credit cards, and you won't find out where I work from my spending or any other way. I'm sure there is more info on me on line, and in other places (gov't comes to mind), but just because this may exist already doesn't mean I want even more information available which violates my privacy.

If you only have an "illusion" of privacy, I'm sorry. I want to maintain at LEAST as much privacy as I have now. To say there's nothing to lose but an illusion is buying into George Bush Sr.'s wet dreams.

Here's another example of why I'm suspicious of who all is involved in this terrorism stuff. Good excuse to attack our constitutional values.


-- jumpoff joe (, September 24, 2001.

And I NEVER make late mortgage payments. I don't DO mortgages!


-- jumpoff joe (, September 24, 2001.

Frankly, this whole ID Card things makes me uncomfortable . . . I mean for the government WANT to know WHERE you are . . . WHO you ARE . . . and where are you going . . . and why are you HERE, exactly?

The whole thing gives me the chills. Makes me think there is some national database, tracing our movements, trying to figure out a pattern.

I think freedom as we know it is going to come to an end.

-- j.r. guerra (, September 24, 2001.

I forgot to add.

Remember, the technology to implant a 'bug' on a person to find him / her if they are 'lost' is already a reality. Supposedly, members of Britain's royal family have this chip, in case of kidnapping. Pets are implanted with this chip to find them when they get lost. Does this smart card have this ability?

-- j.r. guerra (, September 24, 2001.

Here's an idea: Fingerprint all of the foreign nationals entering the country..put all those nice prints into a database for the airports and the banks, etc.....then when citizens go to board a plane, everybody in line places their hands under scanner..when the thing "beeps" it's a foreign national who would then be required to undergo questioning regarding where they are going and why, etc. as well as their person and baggage more thouroughly searched. Keeps my constitutional rights intact..foreign nationals shouldn't have any constitutional rights in America. And yes, before anybody jumps on the "onesidedness" of this idea, if I were to travel abroad, I guess I would not expect to have any rights either.....that's why I stay home and spend my few dollars here in the USA.

-- lesley (, September 24, 2001.

Pay attention to who benefits financially if the government does decide to do this!

-- Kathleen Sanderson (, September 24, 2001.

This is the place I found out about the labels, and the links from this site. I also did a search on the chips. Warning: 666 Is Coming

-- Stephanie Nosacek (, September 25, 2001.


Thanks for posting the link. It is very interesting.

Talk to you later.

-- Bob in WI (, September 26, 2001.

Steph, that's the same way I explained it, other than not believing in Bible prophecy.

The only thing the site doesn't explain is why the number six on the LEFT side doesn't have the same two lines that the number six has on the RIGHT side.

The way their picture is drawn, it implies that each number is all represented by one pair of lines. Not so. The numbers on the left are totally different than the ones on the right.


-- jumpoff joe (, September 26, 2001.

Well, I always had a hard time figuring out the lines, etc. My pastors wife has relatives in different states who are set up for 'F' or 'H' scans. Gives me the creeps to think that someone has already willingly done so.

I wonder how long it will take for them to make it policy?

-- stephanie nosacek (, September 26, 2001.

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