Whogreenspun.com : LUSENET : Freedom! self reliance : One Thread
What is your opinion? This may have been answered in another thread/s along the way, but...and I believe satan is the ultimate answer in this case, but....Who is/are the one/ones/country/whatever behind all this evil, not just the terrorism, but the one world government, the making people think they don't have any sense, the population control myths, etc. Is it Russia? The U.N.? Lybia? Some group of people we've never heard of? Burgerbuilders(sp-my Hal Linday book is packed), the CFR or is that CRF? Planned Parenthood? Who is it that thinks they have all the power and wisdom and control? And for that matter why do we let them get away with it? And if one has all that power, wisdom and control, what are they gonna do with it?-when they don't have as many to control?And do they really think they have some special gift that entitles them to such things? Reminds me of the verse that says something about the foolish confounding the wise.
-- Cindy (S.E.IN) (firstname.lastname@example.org), September 25, 2001
Cindy, I do not believe that "Satan" is the evil behind this. Sorry, I know this is a pretty religious area, but that is a cop out. It is too easy to explain something like this away on a evil being which has never been seen (physically)! I believe that this country has played under handed dirty global politics for years. I think, as a country, we have claimed to support a democratically elected, then turned around and supported opposition forces. We introduced torture methods to Central America through the ubiquitous CIA. The truth is, we do not support the good of the people, wherever they are. We support American business interest's. Hawaii was brought into the fold by American Forces for a couple of reason's. The Dole Fruit Company was definately in the pockets of a couple of well placed political officials, as well as Newspaper publishers. It is rumored that William Randolph Hearst actually help create the war that allowed us to eventually have the Phillipines and Hawaii. Honestly, I do not know who is behind all of this, but in the end it would be great to know. Is there a secret parallel government? Did we get a glimpse of it during the Iran-Contra Hearings? Is there a power cable that runs across the globe, that answerrs to no law, that no's no boundry, that is not afraid of any government. It makes a great story, but probably not. The truth is, we probably read too much between the lines. I don't buy the whole "mark of the beast" National ID Card System thing. I am sure some of you will go to your graves believing it, but I just don't buy it. Cindy - What is your problem with Planned Parenthood. I think kids are going to do it, just as teenagers have been doing it for years. Let's make them safe, or as safe as it can be. Is this what you are looking for? I don't think the answers exist.
-- Bill (email@example.com), September 25, 2001.
Bill, the devil didn't make us do it, but he sure tempted us, and we gave in, totally free will. Planned Parenthood's problem-abortion.
-- Cindy (S.E.IN) (firstname.lastname@example.org), September 25, 2001.
Hi Bill, read your post and couldn't help responding to it. I apologize for sticking my nose into this discusion, but here is MY unsolicited opinion. I'm not speaking for Cindy.
Warning: this answer relates to Planned Parenthood.
I agree that kids WILL experiment with degrees of sexual behavior prior to becoming married; my disagreement with your answer is what do we as a society DO about that. Planned Parenthood methods of what to do with children born out of wedlock is ABORTION, period. They do not discuss the option of bringing the pregnancy to term and allowing a two parent family to adopt this person.
My wife is about five months pregnant now, and I have seen the sonograms of our child. Want to see if your health insurance is any good. Here is a test; tell a pregnant mother that that child is not alive yet. I think the discussion will be pretty lively, to say the least.
As much as I want as much freedom for everybody as possible, killing an innocent child and telling the living ones that "we do it for the children" wouldn't wash for me. Why do kids seem to be so indifferent to people killing people around them? Because we are their teachers. Our children learn what is moral from us, their elders, and a society which condones killing the innocent because it is convenient for that "parent" does not make sense to me.
I also DO NOT agree with some of the actions of the anti-abortionists in killing doctors. To me, it seems highly hypecritical (sp?) to argue to save a life by killing another.
Just my opinion; I know everyone has their own feelings on this matter. I won't press it. Thank you Bill for your post;
-- j.r. guerra (email@example.com), September 25, 2001.
Planned Parenthood exists to make money off of abortion. They do not exist to "help" people, or to make people safe, they exist to reduce the world population by whatever means they can, fair or foul. They just make people accept them by pretending to be out to help children stay safe. Sorry to sound so negative, but there is a lot of evil masquerading as sweetness and light, and often you don't even have to dig very far to find the truth.
-- Kathleen Sanderson (firstname.lastname@example.org), September 25, 2001.
First, Sorry about my horrible grammar and mispelling a few words in the last post. I have read every post and I have a few comments and questions. 1.) Where can kids go to get low cost/free contraceptives in your town? The school nurse will probably talk to her friends if you live in a small town. Then you are the town fluzzie and rumors spread faster than wildfire in small towns. 2.) I know a girl who went to one of those places to get INFORMATION. She wanted to know what... how... when..., she had to ask because her parents only said it was wrong. No explination, no discussion, no nothing. Just a plain statement that said she should not do it. This 16 year old girl went to Planned Parenthood so she could learn about sex. She weighed her options and decided to hold out a little longer. She got some free condoms, just in case she decided to go ahead with whatever (to be safe). Abortion: I can't apeak out either way. I have never gone through that, and don't know enough about what Planned Parenthood offers. I cannot refuse your logic, because I do not know enough about what they do versus don't do. I thought more people on this board would have been in favor of a smaller government telling them less. Giving people the personal freedomn to decide what choices they make.
-- Bill (Bill@Bill.com), September 25, 2001.
The passage you are referring to is speaking of the calling to ministry and that God uses those whom others would be contemptuous of or would hold in small stature to elevate for God's glory:
1 Cor 1:26-29 "26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:
27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;
28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:
29 That no flesh should glory in his presence." KJV
As far as Satan goes, yes he is evil, but no I do not believe he is the cause for the WTC attack. America has allowed other idols to come in and reign supreme in our nation. One of the first was money. The second grandios prestige and the third abusive authority.
All of these things God hates! Everytime a nation has gone away from God and has embraced these things that nation has trodden upon the righteous, has forsaken children and the helpless, and the Truth.
Each time God has either chastised or judged those nations by allowing another nation as evil or worse to come against her. Now, usually as seen in scripture, the nation he uses to chastise the rebellious nation is then destroyed. But, that is only when the nation repents of it's rebellion. This nation has not begun to repent yet and our enemies are still at large.
The true repentance required by God has been to tear down the idols and the temples to false gods. You will not see that in America we are prideful and politically correct. Unconditional love is one thing, enabling people to continue worshiping false idols is another.
The second show of true repentance is to restore justice and tear down oppression. The government/media has been asking our people, "how much freedom are you willing to give up for security?" Unless this nation realizes that her security, peace and safety comes from God, she will not enjoy peace, safety and the freedom she craves.
Our nation is riddled with angencies and organizations, supported by our taxes and government to insure oppression, murder and depravity of the worst kind. How can we as a nation condemn what the terrorists did when we allow a man with a scalpel and a PHD to murder babies, provide protection so that he/she can continue to murder and propogate the lie that we are doing this for the sake of the child and the mother? They are both destroyed.
Yet, the answers to America's problems will not go away unless we fight to restore the Truth.
Planned parenthood gave me a free pregnancy test when I was in my early twenties. They were actually abhorred that I wanted to keep a child because I went in under my maiden name. They pushed abortion at me and I literally had to leave the office feeling that if I didn't they would continue to try and talk me into it.
Are they any worse than those who ban the name of Jesus in our schools? Will not those children perish who do not know God? Will not those children perish when they choose drugs instead of prayer to solve their problems? Will not those children perish when their rage causes them to shoot each other in the schools?
Who gave these people this power? We did. We did it because we didn't vote. We did it because we were afraid to stand up and fight. We did it because we were afraid of the cost. We did it because we were afraid of what people would think of us. We did it because we smuggly said in our hearts, "I and my children are safe in our houses, this will not effect me." We did it because we really did not believe in the righteousness of God. We did it because this is the feel good generation, give me a pill and all my problems will go away.
Sorry for preachin', but if we are to keep further tragedy from happening on home soil we need to clean up our act and pray. Pray that God does not turn a deaf ear. Pray that God will have mercy. God does not change, His ways are just. If you have read what happens to the unrighteous in the Old Testament and the end of those unrighteous in the New Testament, and you really believe the Word is True, then you should be shaken at the prospects of what God could do to this nation which has turned her back on Him. We give him plenty of lip service but actions speak louder than words.
God doesn't accept bribes either, we can donate a million dollars to those who were victims of that tragedy but if our hearts are not changed it is dross.
-- Stephanie Nosacek (email@example.com), September 25, 2001.
I have no problem believing that satan, the father of all lies is indeed behind every act of terror or any kind of sin in this world. He works in men's hearts to induce them to love money, sex, power,etc. rather than to love Almighty God. The end result is and has been seen throughout the ages. The inherent nature of man is sinful..again, I love the image of the three small toddlers in the sandbox..they all have toys, yet at some point, one will beat the others over the head to take their things. This behavior is not taught, it is ingrained in mankind. Some things are simple..my belief is one of them..satan=sin=all the evils of the world that man can think of. This nation used to be proud to say "One nation, under God." All over our constitution, bill of rights, declaration of independence, etc. are references to our "creator". Our politicians are sworn in with a bible under their hand. Our currency says "In God we trust"..lots of references to the Almighty, but now they are, for many, just meaningless old-fashioned naive words. We have given satan control over our nation willingly and put God in a box to be trotted out at Christmastime if he's lucky. It is "hip" and "rad" to proclaim yourself a peaceful pagan, or a wiccan, one with mother earth. A Christian is seen as a mean-spirited fuddy duddy. Ah well..someday we all will see the truth with really BIG open eyes..some folks will be quite surprised when they get their first look at the Almighty. Anyway, you asked who or what is behind this terrorism thing....satan and his many, many helpers all across the world. As far as Planned Parenthood, I have to differ with many of my Christian friends...I have never seen them "push" abortion on anybody..it is one of their offered services. When I went to one of their clinics before I was saved,abortion was the last thing on their list of suggestions. Many inner-city teens in New Jersey & New York go there for birth control measures only. My own spiritual beliefs are against just about anything they do at Planned Parenthood, but I do like to state the truth about them as it has been my experience.
-- lesley (firstname.lastname@example.org), September 25, 2001.
Great answer Lesley, thanks.
-- Cindy (S.E.IN) (email@example.com), September 25, 2001.
You don't like to state the truth... Are you crazy. That is what you are supposed to state. As a christian it is against your moral code to lie. I can't believe you would write such a thing. You should be proud to be a christian, but you should be proud that you told the truth and not perpetuated a lie told by those whose disagree with Planned Parenthood. I know the good of planned parenthood, because that 16 year old girl was my girlfriend. She was told about all the things involved with having sex, and she decided to wait. Needless to say, I did not lose my virginity that summer like I had wanted to. Planned Parenthood told her the only way to stay safe was to abstain from it. What is so bad about that? NOTHING. I am proud to state the truth.
-- bill (firstname.lastname@example.org), September 25, 2001.
My .02 worth. satan is behind ALL evil. There is absolutely no good in him. old hoot gibson. Matt.24:44
-- old hoot gibson (email@example.com), September 25, 2001.
Hey Bill, I think you misread what Lesley said there at the end. As for the rest of the stuff, yup. Satan aided tremendously by human ineptitude is behind it all. And that ineptitude lies in a large part on the church (people, not buildings or denominations), imo.
Also, of course the "power" crowd thinks they are better and deserve it, that's just another part of it.
-- Dreen (firstname.lastname@example.org), September 25, 2001.
Hey there Bill..perhaps you are my age and had a tiny "senior moment " there my friend...I said I DO want to tell the truth about my experiences with Planned Parenthood, that abortion was never pushed upon me or any of my patients who went there and that their main thrust is providing poverty youth birth control. Then I said that my spiritual beliefs cause me not to approve of anything they do there..(I don't believe in birth control or abortions)..truce?
-- lesley (email@example.com), September 25, 2001.
TRUCE - I re-read the post in question and still thought it read the way I took it. Sorry if I seemed to blast you. I just don't understand. The original question was about who has all the power and who might be the "evil" behind it. Then the conversation went to Planned Parenthood, and abortion. I prefer to leave most of my spiritual beliefs out of the conversation for that very reason. Oh well, to each his own.
-- bill (firstname.lastname@example.org), September 26, 2001.
I apologize to you Bill. . . your original answer was honest and to the point; I just saw when of my pet "peeves" and went off on a rant. I'm sorry if I offended you or made you feel put upon. Your response prooved you to be a decent person. Again, sorry, no hard feelings.
-- j.r. guerra (email@example.com), September 26, 2001.
I like to be honest and say what I really feel. I will not hold back on anything. At the same time, I am respectful of others opinions and ideas, maybe agreeing with them, and maybe not. I still appreciate the fourm to talk. Let's keep it going. No hard feelings...
-- bill (firstname.lastname@example.org), September 26, 2001.
Here is my 2 cents on why Planned Parenthood can be considered a bad idea for your child. IF your child should actually become pregnant, they say do you want it? A scared kid may say no. They do not tell you ANYTHING about it being alive, maybe in a misguided attempt to help the pregnant girl, but you CAN NOT make a good decision if you do not know the full story. They do not show the pregnant person a picture of the baby, or tell them how developed it is, etc. WHY? If they want to let the girls decide, why do they not mention it is ALIVE and all that???!!! Why do they not describe the process, like with a surgery? The women would be horrified. And why can they not see what they are killing? Why worry about bonding?
-- notnow (email@example.com), September 26, 2001.
Respectfully, how many of you have actually visited Planned parenthood to evaluate it for yourself? I have. If someone is pregnant and asks about abortion, the entire procedure is spelled out for them along with the risks. Indeed, they are told at what stage of pregnancy they are in and there are pictures all over the place as well as brochures outlining the stages of pregnancy. They are told that there are alternatives to abortion and given names and phone numbers of other organizations if they want them. Birth control is discussed at length with both males and females, as is sexually tranmitted diseases, pap smears and abstinence issues. Again, I personally do not approve of birth control or abortions, but Planned Parenthood does many, many things besides abortions. One day years ago I went to church and there was a pamphlet there for everyone telling the church how In Vitro Fertilization was an abomination because "the fertilized eggs are thrown down the sink." At the time, I managed an entire OB department for the only place in town where IVF was offered. Since I was a party to the ethics committee, I knew for a fact that (at that time) all the fertilized ovum were transplanted into the mother.When I brought this to the attention of the church, I was literally shouted down. I truly believe that first one gets the truth and then either accept or reject the premise. The truth is sufficient to make a decision...lies are not necessary. I am sure that since all Planned Parenthood sites are independantly run, there probably are some offices where they do not present things as they should..I can only speak about the three where I saw things for myself in two different states.
-- lesley (firstname.lastname@example.org), September 27, 2001.
"I truly believe that first one gets the truth and then either accept or reject the premise. The truth is sufficient to make a decision...lies are not necessary."
Amen to that, and I don't think I have ever heard it said any better!
-- Doreen (email@example.com), September 27, 2001.
u.s.a are the true burgerbuilders founded after the second world war. a world debt to be paid back. i.e everything you dont know about i will tell.
-- cats out of the bag (firstname.lastname@example.org), May 16, 2004.