October 1

greenspun.com : LUSENET : Diversity coalitions : One Thread

(Brought over from last day of September)

Tobe: Now that it's October, be aware that Rose et al are trying hard to be super patriots at the BOE meetings...She wants the district to require saying the Pledge unless a written letter is handed in from the parents of the child ...this was declared unconstitutional in 1943...sorry Rose. Even though the current district policy calls for this it'll have to be changed to meet the Constitution of the United States. Be careful out there. Tobe PS Maybe we can get an October page started... Any interest in an SOS meeting?

-- Anonymous, October 01, 2001


Brought over from last day of September) Tobe: Now that it's October, be aware that Rose et al are trying hard to be super patriots at the BOE meetings...She wants the district to require saying the Pledge unless a written letter is handed in from the parents of the child ...this was declared unconstitutional in 1943...sorry Rose. Even though the current district policy calls for this it'll have to be changed to meet the Constitution of the United States. Be careful out there. Tobe PS Maybe we can get an October page started... Any interest in an SOS meeting?

Melissa: Yes to SOS meeting

-- Anonymous, October 01, 2001

Yes, let's have a meeting.

-- Anonymous, October 01, 2001


FP's attorney never got it together to reply to Alan Sussman's brilliant Motion to Dismiss. No costs, though....Alan says they just never do that: they should!! Especially in a case like this.. So, I'm very happy, but not overjoyed: thanks, everybody, for your support!

Solidarity, Curry

-- Anonymous, October 01, 2001

Now it's time to meet AND PARTY!!!Way...Curry...Time for a newspaper ad telling everyone that Truth prevailed.

The word out today is also that the D'Errico's petition against Marino was tossed out by the Commissioner...Two sweet victories...Way team. Tobe

-- Anonymous, October 01, 2001

Freman link to story on the dismissal of Perry's suit against Curry

-- Anonymous, October 03, 2001

Barbara Clare responded online: "Mr. Rinzler has some nerve stating that the testimony that Mr. Perry made at this trial goes against other witnesses. I was a witness at the attack the night of the elections, I did not lie on the stand. Mr Rinzler should do what he does best and go back into his clown costume since he believes in a fantasy world."

-- Anonymous, October 03, 2001

Hurray for Curry! YOu must be very relieved and validated. It's amazing how people (Clare etc) hang on to perspectives that serve no one but themselves. They're so dug in, so short sighted and not all inclusive. Remember it's all for the children. :)

-- Anonymous, October 04, 2001

I never dreamed that a bad clown costume would have such a profound affect on a bunch of stupid psychos!!

-- Anonymous, October 04, 2001

Hey guys (and gals)...things are going well. But the REAL EVIL IS VERY MUCH OUT THERE AND LURKING. Joe Doan, by name. However, in the spirit of celebration, especially in these times of tragic desperation, let's have an SOS party. It would be a great way to talk and socialize without the constraints of a formal meeting. You have to believe that our political persualsions have somehow kept us together this far.

I'm open to any place or weekend. Wouldn't it be fun to have some R&R together?? Sharon's teaching has made it difficult to have it at my place but I am willing to help invite everyone and coordinate stuff. Any ideas?? Hopefully we can get this together soon before the holiday rush.

-- Anonymous, October 05, 2001

May I paraphrase Curry's above statment..

I never dreamed that a profound clown costume would have such a bad affect on a bunch of stupid psychos!!

-- Anonymous, October 05, 2001

Slightly off-topic, but does anyone know who is behind the half-page ad on P. 4 of the Woodstock Times, "Ashokan Alert"? Or whether officials from the reservoir will be there to answer questions?

-- Anonymous, October 05, 2001

Am I too paranoid in thinking that CARE might try to grab the "security" issue and use it?? I think I'll go to the meeting..maybe even videotape it for the "local cable".

Don't know who published the unsigned letter...maybe Beth Blis can find out... Tobe

-- Anonymous, October 06, 2001

hi all. nice to see everyone coming back on.Jim's idea sounds grand , I'm not such a good location myself ,but I'm thinking on it.Anyone know Paul Smart ,of Phoenicia Times fame? I suspect he's avoiding the school board dramas , unsure of local heat.mmillar

-- Anonymous, October 06, 2001

Rose was quoted in the Middletown Record (official newspaper) this week in an article "titled, "School pledges patriotism over PA system," when speaking about the Woodstock school, "We're dropping the hammer on Mr. Wing."

Sounds like she has taken a leaf from Marty's book and begun to act unilaterally. She needs to be reminded that under the law, school board members have NO authority outside of a regularly (legally) convened school board meeting...hmmm wonder who the "we" is.

Wonder if that's "the hammer of freedom" or the "hammer of justice"... as in "If I had a Hammer?"

Or is it another kind of hammer, as in "blacklists" wielded by super-patriots?

I heard a nice rumor that Dennis would consider hosting a group gathering...Dennis????? Tobe

-- Anonymous, October 07, 2001

Phoenicia once again is up in arms. Our new principal, Linda Stella, decided the Halloween Parade was not safe. It certainly is her perogitive. She gave many reasons: Parade is too loose and unsafe so in light of the present situation of terrorist attacks and ashokan res in lock down mode and on list as one of many targets, there are many (I got a list of about 15) kids with court orders against parents, custody suits, disgruntled boyfriends etc and we're required to keep them safe, parade takes l/2 day starting right after last recess...last board meeting it was recommended that an hour be set aside. It takes a l/2 hour for kids to get dressed and assembled! The Phoenicia faculty had mixed feelings. This parade has been happening since the 1960's. It is a big deal in town. Maybe it could have been made safer and tightened up as a compromise. Petition circulating...guess where one is? Millman's Pharmacy. Did he agree to l hour limit? He's contridicticting if so. I also heard his wife, a Jahova Witness, is not in favor of parade. Curious. I love this town! Linda Stella is a person who tends to details. Randy wasn't. Linda is enforcing safety rules that all other elementary schools have in place and Phoenicia has become lacks. There's going to be lots of disgruntled parents at next meeting. Dennis Yerry, Tobe?

-- Anonymous, October 08, 2001

Hee, Hee. Never a dull moment.

I didn't get to see the WT ad or an unsigned letter. I thought that was against their policy?

Great letter from our good friend, Elizabeth Holland Kern, in the Phoenicia Times (or whatever it's called). She wrote about gladly paying her school tax bill and the essential value it provides especially when compared to the other yearly bills in her life such as cable TV and phone.

Keep the positive spin going!

Also saw the Randi Collins article in the Freeman that states he is returning in July. It also heavily touched on the personal aspect of his and Beth Liptons marital status.

-- Anonymous, October 08, 2001

Melissa: Seems that Marty is trying to have it both ways...he said he was in favor of about an hour-long celebration...stated his wife does not celebrate Halloween, and they always took their child out before the parade. Tell parents to call him and complain about his position taken at the board meeting...if they don't like it...

The principal certainly is following the clear desire of the board to have a short celebration that doesn't take up too much time from the school day.

Jim, the Ashokan meeting notice in Woodstock Times was a paid ad, unsigned...not a letter.

I'll be there to tape it for local info...anyone else? Olive Library 7PM.Tuesday.

Elizabeth Kern is a good writer and her approach is great. Who wants to bet Randy and Beth won't be back next year???

When's the party? Tobe

-- Anonymous, October 08, 2001

Dennis and Beth have offered his house for a gathering on Sunday, October 14th at 3PM..he can be called at 657-2714 for directions, etc. RSVP.


-- Anonymous, October 09, 2001

I meant the use of "their" house... Tobe

-- Anonymous, October 09, 2001

so srry sunday 14 not good for me. otherwise so glad to see everyone get together.Is a collins lipton relationship a reality? Does the Board get to publically comment on this or what? I'm afraid I've mssed this drama. What else do they have on Randy to afford breaking his contract? Are they [admin.] working w/out a contract,Tobe?what's the deal with Bennets new modulars?mm

-- Anonymous, October 09, 2001

Hi Maureen and all... Just back for the Asokan (reservoir) alert meeting...divided between those concerned (shokan Square, and Winchel's, etc.) about losing business and those wanting security and assurances that we are all safe. DEP head of police spoke and assured us that the Reservoir is certainly not the number one target now that world trade center is down, etc., etc. interesting, packed house at Olive Library basically they said they had it pretty well covered, neeed oiur help with being vigilant and aware of what's noty quite right around us...saw lots of friendly faces in the crowd (you know who you are.)

Maureen: Yes, it appears Randy and Beth are "an item" and off together in N Carolina...Is it the Board's business...hah! Only those who are the morality police...and you know who that is!

The modulars at Bennett appear to be schedule for temporary space so that construction can begin...If you mean the famous Errat mdoulars...there is no word from the Commiss's office on that petition from Mehlia (aka Doan)as yet...following the two losses the bad boys (Perry and D'Errico)took this week.....would be great to see the Commish toss this one as well. Tobe

-- Anonymous, October 09, 2001

This is an invitation to our house for the first SOS meeting of this election year. We are at 150 Watson Hollow Rd. in West Shokan. Time is Sunday October 14 at 3:00 PM. Please bring some snacks or foods that you would like to have during the meeting as we do not know how many people might show up. We are 1/2 mile past Davis Park on the right. Email me with any questions.


-- Anonymous, October 10, 2001

Dear Beth & Dennis, Thanks for offering your (new!!) house for our SOS meeting/party. I'll attend, but, is it a meeting or a party? I'm trying to figure out how serious to act..... Curry

-- Anonymous, October 10, 2001

I wonder of this is a good time to widen our "membership" and invite those we think would benefit by the association and who we want to help us. There have been several people suggesting members throiughout last year and perhaps they should offer the invite to Dennis & Beth's to these friends.

How wide we go should be left up to the "members'" good judgment.


-- Anonymous, October 10, 2001

I think this is a great way to have an informal get together with some lite food and heavy drinking. :-)

I believe it's a wondeful way get ourselves re-acquanted after the September 11 tragedy. We can throw around some ideas and get a feel for the strategies with which to proceed.

In any case, it will be a fun way to get together and enjoy each other's company. See you all there.

-- Anonymous, October 13, 2001

Darn...can't come today for gathering. My inlaws up. The beloved halloween parade is a big deal to Phoenicia parents. It was a fun experience, my three boys loved it. Only it's not 1965 anymore. It is a shame. Marty is jerk! He's playing both sides of fence and denying he agreed to shorten time slot for celebrating halloween. Was that taped Toby? I'd love to throw a copy on staff table anonymisly (spell?) and see reaction from die hard Marty lovers (mostly in aide contingency, not teachers). Believe me, I have to be cautious. I like the new principal. Linda is a person who tends to details. The reporting and word getting around was that she alone made decisions about parade and building safety rules. she wasn't. the whole staff agreed. The staff wrote a letter to board explaining the reasons and their support for Linda. Everyone signed it. By the way, everything implemented by Linda is already in place in all other buildings. Randy is a nice guy, takes risks for progressive thinking and programs, truley is there for the kids...but he has a broad stroke approach not realizing all involved. Certainly the safety issues were ignored or overlooked. You know Shandaken's motto? "I can do what I want!". Miss you all.

-- Anonymous, October 14, 2001

Freeman Oct 17 (Kemble):

WEST HURLEY - The Onteora Board of Education has struck down a district policy that required students to have written permission to maintain silence during morning recitation of the Pledge of Allegiance. Officials said research provided by Onteora High School students into the issue offered a valuable lesson for school trustees to consider. At the board's meeting Monday, two students explained a 1943 court ruling that upheld the right of students to decline participating in the pledge.

Trustee Marino D'Orazio, an attorney, commended the presentations as reflecting the type of effort needed for students to appreciate the rights they were seeking to preserve.

"Now there are a whole number of students who have learned something about Supreme Court decisions, or the Bill of Rights, or their responsibilities and their duties as citizens," he said.

Trustee Rose Ostrander said the issue was brought to her by parents complaining that Woodstock Elementary School had not provided a consistent method for the pledge to be recited. She told the audience that penalties did not occur to her at a previous board meeting when reading aloud a policy that students needed a "written request from their parent or guardian that such an exercise is at variance with their religious and/or social-political convictions" to be excused from participation.

"There was never any intention to rob anyone of their freedom to do as they choose," she said.

Ostrander called the section of policy requiring a note from home "outdated" and said students who decline participation in the pledge should only be asked to "stand in a quiet and respectful manner."

Superintendent Hal Rowe told trustees it would be more likely for students to participate in the Pledge of Allegiance if were a choice rather than a requirement.

"I think it's really important for people to draw a distinction between for people who stand for the right to make their own decision and the automatic assumption that when ... students argue that they have a right to make that decision that they are necessarily going to exercise it," he said.

Trustee Joseph Doan blamed a Freeman report on the matter for causing consternation in the community.

"This is just another case where a story ... creates a lot of misunderstanding about the intent of this board was," he said. "Mainly, it was to upgrade a policy concerning the way the pledge was done in the morning."

Freeman October 16 article on the board's reaction to the parade controversy unaccountably not available from their search function.

-- Anonymous, October 17, 2001

Would anyone care to summerize the SOS meeting for all that were unable to attend? I was too tired to take notes. Thanks.

-- Anonymous, October 19, 2001

Oh, I forgot to mention my deepest appreciation for the wonderful and generous hospitality provided to SOS by Beth and Dennis. Their new home is lovely and has just a wee bit more room than their previous residence and a slightly larger yard. A comfortable meting place indeed. :-)

What a great food spread too! A delightful table of heaping food was provided and consummed by all especially myself! Thanks to all the providers and participants in making our first meeting of this school year a great success.

-- Anonymous, October 19, 2001

I'll give some inout if others will also add to it.. Much fun, great food and hospitality...meeting was good, and we talkled about strategy, tactics, candidiates, CARE, issues, etc.

Marino emphasized the need to create "our" agenda and not to be just reacying to Joe... Also the need for complete accurate information about ehat havoc Joe has brought with him...For this video of the meetings are available, and all you want to help can contact me for dubs to log and quote for the campaign.

Kathy Hochman was very articulate and had good ideas to offer. with Marino's declaration that he would run if we wanted him and Kathy's clear statements that she would also be a serious candidate...we need one more person (seems to me at least) to have an early ticket in place and so we can begin the campaign in lots of ways.

We had good discussion back and forth on ideas and tactics...we know we need to reveal all about Joe and remind voters of his record and lies...

Time to list all the bad behaviors you remember...we have a list and need to keep it fresh. Tobe

-- Anonymous, October 19, 2001

I thought it was the most interesting and intellectually stimulating meeting we'd had yet. A few new faces -- who was the fellow who left first, the one who made that superb chicken and mushroom dish? I was impressed with the way Kathy and her husband (Rick, is it?) operated as a very astute tag team, bouncing ideas back and forth.

For the list of Doan faults, add in the recent Freeman article his blaming the paper once again. In fact, there may be a whole list of blaming the newspapers that would make in interesting subset.

Doan will be most vulnerable with Olive voters, over his backstabbing on the Bennett facilities.

For some interesting insights into the minds (?) of Freeman readers, note the online responses to the flag pledge article: w hackadoos. Sorry if I sound a bit sour about it, but I've just come from about two hours hearing Tom D'Errico torture the English language at the soccer awards ceremony, escaping the reality there by fantasizing what it would be like to have an Olive Intellectual Association as well as an athletic association...

We discussed how it would be more expensive, but possibly reach more people, if we advertised in the Freeman, since the Woodstock Times material is in many ways preaching to the choir. It was pointed out that though CARE may be somewhat more fragmented at this point, that they still can mobilize a lot of people and we can't be complacent or write them off. They haven't changed their website since June, and it has been a while since they put out a newsletter, so we don't know what their public thinking is. Kathy didn't seem to feel she could go to their meetings again.

-- Anonymous, October 20, 2001

Oct 23 Daily Freeman Kemble article:

BOICEVILLE - An attorney from the New York State School Boards Association told Onteora school board Trustee Joseph Doan, in a telephone conversation he tape-recorded, that opinions from the association should not take the place of advice from the school district's own attorney. The audio cassette recording was released last week by resident Tobe Carey after district officials fulfilled his request for a copy of a tape of the 10-minute conversation under the state Freedom of Information Law. Carey, the husband of Trustee Meg Carey, said he released the tape to help the public understand Doan's tactics.

"I just feel (Doan) was misleading and think that people are entitled to have the information," he said.

Doan had played about 30 seconds of a 10-minute conversation with association attorney Kimberly Fanniff during a meeting in June to support his argument that the district should not spend $132,000 over three years to lease modular units containing two classrooms at two elementary schools.

On the tape, Fanniff said association attorneys had reviewed a section of law at Doan's request. In the section of audio heard by an audience at the June board meeting, she told the trustee: "Looking at a plain reading of the statute, there seems to be a problem with having lease payments which total more than the cost of the building."

However, the remainder of the conversation was cut off before the public could hear that district lawyers should be consulted instead of association representatives.

"But not wanting to second-guess your attorney, and there may other facts that we don't know or he may have done some other legal research, we would suggest that you talk to your attorney and have him explain why he believes this is the way to go," Fanniff said.

Doan has contended that the district previously paid $414,000 to lease the buildings, and that the additional $132,000 paid under the new agreement represents another violation of law, based on the cost exceeding the $150,000 value of the structures.

The amount of money should have justified a public vote, according to Doan, who said poor advice from former Onteora board attorney John Donoghue led to the problem.

"It's my feeling that our attorney is kind of jumping around knowing that there's a problem here and it's his problem, and because of it we're not getting the right advice or straight answers from him," Doan said.

During of the conversation, Fanniff told Doan it would be "uncomfortable" for new district legal representatives to contact the association attorneys for advice..

"Your attorney is ... familiar with all the facts and we are not," Fanniff said.

Contacted on Monday, Donoghue declined to comment on the statements.

"If the Board of Education in Onteora wishes an opportunity to meet with me to discuss it, I'd be delighted to do it," he said.

-- Anonymous, October 23, 2001

Nice to see the Freeman getting the Doan secret-tape article in...Hopefully, we can keep him up to his eyeballs in the news every week up through the election. Seven months and counting!

I hear rumors that there are "Dump Doan" signs sprouting up like mushrooms and some "Free Onteora" bumper stickers in the works...can anyone confirm these? I have yet to see one myself. Sightings? Could someone grab a digital picture or two...maybe it's worth an article in the W. Times? he he he.

And for those who care...the annual fundraising dance for the Judith and Mara Doan Scholarship Fund is scheduled for the West Hurley Firehouse on November 23. Tobe

-- Anonymous, October 27, 2001

Just to let you know, the greenspun.com downtime this week is rumored on some other boards to be a portent of more things to come. We may at that point move to Ezboard, or one of the other boards where we can have a private board. Yahoo's boards really suck, and I would resist using them. I'm keeping my ears open to see what the others are doing in terms of backup boards. If there is any material on this board you want saved for your own personal records, you'll want to copy and paste it into your word processing program.

This includes those who would find this material on this thread useful for remembering evidence to use for dumping Doan, so you may want to get that saved PDQ. You've been warned.

-- Anonymous, October 27, 2001

Thanks carol... I think (hope) I have all the Doan threads already in my files...I agree that Yahoo boards are not too good...And, do they allow privtae boards? I'm not familiar with the alternative board you mentioned, but my trust in your judgement is extremely high. Just let us know what we should do.


-- Anonymous, October 27, 2001

Yahoo does allow private boards (I believe you are on one with me there Tobe, Ishgooda's). But you can't get a really linear flow like you can here. It's a lousy interface.

Jim, are new people like Lev now aware of this board, so that while it is still here they can get up to speed on issues and juicy gossip? I think we're far more interesting than Page Six of the Post. And maybe as a fundraiser we should make up "The Men of SOS" calendars? We could have you holding up FOIL paperwork to hide the good bits if you are feeling shy. I'm sure Beth and I would be glad to photograph you.

"Onteora to seek nod for roof plan" Kemble, Daily Freeman October 29 No CARE responses to it online as of tonight.

BOICEVILLE - Onteora school district voters in December will be asked to approve a $755,615 capital reserve account for replacement and reconstruction of several school roofs. The Dec. 12 proposition seeks permission from voters to take money from the district's unencumbered fund balance to create the reserve account. The Board of Education last week voted 4-3 to approve the referendum, with trustees Marino D'Orazio, Rose Ostrander, Gregory Walters, and Meg Carey in favor. Board members Joseph Doan, Martin Millman, and Thomas Rosato, who were opposed, questioned the timing of the ballot.

"What happens if it's inclement weather?" asked Doan.

Carey said the earlier date was necessary to stay within recommendations of a recent audit. She reminded Doan and Millman it was they who had previously chastised administrators for violating state recommendations that fund balances not exceed 2 percent or less of the district's total budget.

"A big deal has been made in the last year about exceeding the 2 percent to the degree that there was a special investigation," Carey said. "So it seems to me unethical to suddenly say it's all right to exceed it when there was a big issue made in the community that we were exceeding it."

Doan disagreed that the reserve needed immediate formal approval from the board.

"The difference is ... we've set aside this money and we know what it's going to be used for," he said.

"We've established the ground rules," Doan said. "We said 2 percent and that what we're going to stick to, and the $755,000 would establish a capital fund to repair roofs. That's our intent and I don't think we're being hypocritical."

Doan was also concerned about seasonal financial forces working against approval of the proposition.

"Who's going to be thinking about coming out to vote on Dec. 12 when the alternative is to do their Christmas shopping?" he said.

-- Anonymous, October 29, 2001

Carol: Your idea for the calendar is fun...but no one would want to see this "old man" on their wall..Jim might be fun to look at, and reports are that Dennis was considered "cute" on the mascot video...:-)

Doan once again resorted to attacks last night. He didn't like the article Kemble wrote about the secret tape(duh!) so Doan attacked him and me...in a prepared statement...Tom tried to shut him down, since once again he was off topic...

We love it when he attacks the press...bet kemble reports on it...maybe I'll follow up with a letter to the editor to keep it alive a bit more...:-)

They tried to pull a fast one in going into executive session, but fortunately, we were ready and Meg managed to get them on the record in what they "said" the session was about, and as soon as they strayed into what their real agenda was, it was deemed illegitimate and they came back into public session, where Meg said it was not legit.

Doan revealed how he has been "asking" teachers, principals and staff to do his work for him...fundraise, check water, etc. with NO authority from the board, and Hal called him on it...He (Doan) is clearly interfering with Hal's ability to do his job...wonder if we (anyone want to join me???) should file a petition to have him removed (Doan, that is...) from the board for interference with Hal, since we pay Hal's salary and he is not able to carry out his job functions under these undermining circumstances...thoughts please!

Maureen was terrific in pointing out the way board policy is supposed to be made, and it made Kemble's article...Go Maureen. Tobe

-- Anonymous, October 30, 2001

Tobe I don't know if I've ever properly thanked you for your tireless and well behaved efforts with this taping. I remembered how long you have been doing this and how many endless hours.I hope someone gets a good look at the outrages which are taking place .Is there 3tv time anymore?Thank God Hal referred to Doan's unbelievable inclination to act on the Board's behalf with no authority.I misse d that part.I'd be curious to research the history of charges like that against a BOE member,we surely know Mills would not remove Doan.. it just does not happen.But he could make very direct reminders about appropriate Board behavior.The search engine for commisioners decisions, sucks,if i may say so.Meg , great job with the exec sess work. Could you believe Joe's attack on you and Marino re: the petition? There's a good, very sraight answer to that attack and we have to work on it.Of course it is not and cannot be my job to interrupt Mr. Doan ,I truly believe Board members must register their dismay at his outrageous,provacative behavior.Preferably far more politely than I.Marty is simply unbelievable but of course the danger is if he flips we get Joe. Wadda thought.onthatnote.mm

-- Anonymous, October 30, 2001

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