I have been reading CSM for over a year now and have made some major changes. I am a single mother of one. I sold everything last October and moved back in with my parents so I could get out of debt and homeschool my 5 year old. I need ideas on money making(right now I have a small daycare), saving on food,clothes and animals. We have 30 acres and rabbits,geese, and chickens. I am trying to start calfs in the spring. Any ideas or advice would be greatly appreciated-Thanks.

-- Micheale from SE Kansas (mbfrye@totelcsi.net), October 10, 2001

Answers

Micheale:

I just happened to have written a book right up your alley. It is titled "How to Earn Extra Money in the Country." About 205 pages with over 500 possibilities. And the price is right - free as an e- book. If you want a copy just e-mail me. (Note for others: cannot be sent to a hotmail.com account.)

-- Ken S. in WC TN (scharabo@aol.com), October 10, 2001.

Congratulations on your decision to homeschool your 5 year old! It is a wonderful experience!

You might try getting hold of a copy of Amy Dacyczyn's "The Tightwad Gazette". It does have some pretty silly, inapplicable things in there, but sift through and you'll find some good tips -- I did.

The best tip I've ever gotten, though, was one that came from my grandmother (who raised five children during the depression). Look at every penny BEFORE you spend it -- while you're looking at it IN YOUR HAND, decide if the purchase is worth it. Amazingly enough, this works. The act of actually LOOKING at the money makes it real, I think!

If you sew, you can save on your child's clothing by making it. There is a book of "slopers" or basic patterns available here in Canada at fabric stores (I don't know if you can get it stateside, but you might ask at your local WalMart fabric dept) -- it's by Kirsten Martensson, and is called "Sewing for Children". It gives patterns for "basic" everything, from tshirts, to pjs', to dresses, jackets, etc. At times I have used recycled skirts, etc., from the used clothing store that I could get for a dollar. There is plenty of fabric in a ladies size 20 skirt, and the clothing from 20-30 years ago was made, I think, with better quality fabric that stands more wear.

Good luck to you -- and feel free to email me privately if you wish. Having been there, I know the way you might be feeling right now. Be sure that you're doing something positive for your family!

-- Tracy Rimmer (trimmer31@hotmail.com), October 10, 2001.

Also check out consignment shops and thrift stores. Many of our favorite articles of clothing have come from thrift stores. My husband found 2 pairs of barely worn (i.e. broken in just right!) Reebok sneakers for $4 each!! My favorite is bag days- anything you can fit in a certain size bag for anywhere from $1 up to $10. This was how I got my full length 100% untreated cotton lined coat with built in head covering/scarf. Didn't look like it had even been worn! People ooh and aah every time I wear it. And only my husband I know I paid less than 70 cents for it!!! (I've seen the same style coat in specialty stores and green catalogs going for $200 and up!!) You may have to shop a bit more because they won't always have the thing you're looking for or in the right size, etc. But, oh, when you find that barely worn Lands End parka for your kids it'll be worth. It also helps to be able to purchase high quality items when you find them even if your children aren't able to wear it. It doesn't cost anything to store items and you could keep an inventory so you don't purchse duplicate items.

If you have relatives that buy gifts for your children, you could make specific suggestions for something they need. John really needs a new pair of snow boots size7, etc. Usually relatives are happy to purchase something they know is needed and will be used. It also takes some of the guessing out of gift giving ( do you think John will like/use this?) and gives them a concrete gift idea.

I hope this helps and best wishes to you and your family!

-- Bren (wayoutfarm@skybest.com), October 10, 2001.

I agree with you and the others. The worst use of money is to pay interest - it's dead money that's not buying you anything extra. If you have to do it, then arrange to pay off whatever in the minimum amount of time - that means your payments are going mostly to principal, and little on interest.

One of the most effective uses of money is to save it (for something else) rather than spending it. Money you spend is after-tax money - always think about how much before-tax dollars you would have to earn to give you the after-tax dollars you're about to spend. Along the same line, barter rather than purchase can be good if you have something they'd like, when you go to buy something or some service. Incidentally, if you're running a business from home, you should be able to get tax deductions to bring down your taxable income on some of the things you buy or spend (e.g. electricity, phone, maybe even water would all be essential for a daycare, so some proportion of what you spend to get those should be deductible from your taxable income). If you use your imagination, this can stretch quite a way - for instance, dress-up clothes would fit into a daycare, so some of your purchases at thrift shops ought to be deductible. Stationery and books (as in some of daughter's home-schooling requirements) would also work - provided it's available to the other kids as well. If you provide meals, then membership of Sam's or Costco or something should be deductible, as would some of your grocery purchases. Alternatively, the fact that you are running a business should make you eligible for purchasing at wholesale or business rates from some suppliers - not only for food, but also for things like stationery, books and craft supplies.

This raises another possibility - if you can get things wholesale, you have the possibility of selling retail. You have a built-in market in the parents of the children for whom you care. You may be able to make an additional weekly profit by selling things to them - probably not much, but if you nickel-and-dime enough things they add up. This is particularly true for things like your eggs, or fresh vegetables. Most particularly if your day-care kids have fed the poultry or held a hose on the vegetables. Secret is knowing when it's worth the time and effort, and when not - in advance.

I suspect most of this isn't news to you. You seem to be fairly well set-up and have thought things through fairly well already. For instance, I don't need to tell you about not buying more stock now, when you'd have to buy expensive food to maintain them all through Winter - you've already got that covered. Although - if you see something that is an incredibly good buy because others are thinking the same way, then think about whether the over-winter cost could still leave you with a bargain.

In the long run, it isn't about money - it's about quality-of-life. Some things you can get a lot cheaper than most people realise, if you're prepared to wait and pick your moment. Other things are priceless - room for a child to play, fresh air, fresh food, even the feeling of fulfilment you get from growing your own fresh food rather than being a slave to the market economy (not saying the market economy is bad, but being a slave to anything is bad). It's not about what you spend, it's not even about what you get (provided you're over that magic line where you've got ENOUGH), it's about how you feel.

-- Don Armstrong (darmst@yahoo.com.au), October 10, 2001.

The Library! If you are close by, or in a town you frequent for those "have to buy" items, stop at the Libary. Also, most libraries have a fund raiser "book sale" once or twice a year with great buys for books you want to keep. Sometimes they have brand new Book Club books that they do not add to their collection (not bound heavy enough to put into circulation) that I always get for $1-$2 each and use for gifts!

Garage sale, thrift shops, consignment shops are also great place for buys - we hardly have to "mall it" at all these days.

EBAY also has great deals on homeschooling text books. Check out your area for homeschool associations also to share books/supplies.

Good luck and remember to have fun each day with your child!

-- Dottie Shafer (shaferd@msn.com), October 10, 2001.

You got out of debt by moving home to mom and dad. This is going to be such a popular response :), but then I would think most who know me would expect this from me. Get that child in school so you have your days free to get yourself back into school! Get a job, get on your own two feet. You are just one arguement away, with your mom or dad from being homeless with a 5 year old! Use this time your parents are willing to help you to help yourself! Being obliged to your parents is certainly not what you had hoped for your life is it? It certainly can't be what your parents want either.

It's a wonderful idea that you can sell animals, crafts, and live frugally enough to make it, and yes you can do it, but only as long as you don't have a mortgage/rent or bills, something you will have an abudance of when your parents get tired of this arrangement. Vicki

-- Vicki McGaugh (vickilonesomedoe@hotmail.com), October 11, 2001.

Vicki, I agree she should work as much as possible so she isn't completely dependent on her parents, but many families seem to get along very well in these arrangements. It may be as simple as setting up a trailer of her own on the property. Also if she wants to homeschool, there is no reason she can't even if she has a job. A five year old is not going to require many hours of formal schooling, so she could still work, maybe on an afternoon shift, weekends or some other schedule than a 9 to 5 job, and still homeschool. She does mention she runs a daycare, and that alone is probably making a good bit of money. In our area you can get paid $2 an hour per child. So with just 3 children you are better off than most jobs you can get around here.

-- Melissa (cmnorris@1st.net), October 11, 2001.

I have to agree that she goes back to school.I love my children and am lucky I got to stay home with them .I only regret I do not have a college education .If Hubby were to leave where am I ? I wish I got an education before I went and had my children .I will be going to school as soon as my 2 year old is in preschool.I have sat by wanting to go as my husband has been going back to further himself.There are also a million things that can happen with the situation given , are there other siblings ? What would happen in the event of a parents death ? just for starter ? I am not trying to be a wet shirt but just some of my thoughts .Good luck.

-- Patty {NY State} (fodfarms@slic.com), October 11, 2001.

Patty: I am so glad you offered your advice. I hesitated to say so but I agree wholeheartedly. Things may seem doable now, but as you go along with kids things get more expensive.

You must get yourself financially on your feet and then INVEST in yourself by going to school. Many occupations are in such need of workers that they will pay for school. I wish I'd known that before ( I worked my way through). I have a cousin who is working as a nurse (less than LPN, forget what you call it) and it is a low wage job but VERY in demand--most imporantly she has education benefits.

It's nice to homeschool if you are able, but your little one needs at least one stable breadwinner and that should NOT be your parents. Thank goodness you have nice folks but I am sure it can be stressful for both sides. They have raised their children--they are in a pickle now about raising yours.

Your daughter needs to see how you cope with what life throws you--to know that when the going gets tough you will pick yourself up and apply yourself. This means cutting out your entertainment expenses (expecially alcohol and cigarettes) and doing your fair share and more of the work around your parent's house in lieu of rent (assuming you can't pay now).

One of the people I admire most raised two intelligent, highly educated children who are doing WELL on their own. She was a home daycare person so that she could be home when the kids were. She had a paper route (kids helped). She never took a vacation, had her hair done, went out on the town, but by golly she put those kids through college!

You NEED health insurance because you could be wiped out (or rather your parents since they seem to be helping)in one terrible accident. They are ALWAYS looking for school bus drivers. I know people who bring their children with them. They get paid above minimum wage, have flexible hours and get BENEFITS!!

Perhaps you could be do day care at a school (after school/before school program) so you can get benefits.

I could give you all the frugal tips in the world, and still may in another post. BUT most importantly you need to think how you will raise this child on your own, pay for her education, your education and yes, your retirement (it doesn't just appear in 40 years!).

I meant this to sound hopeful and helpful. I have a young adult daughter and this would be the advice I'd give her.

BTW: If you put your child in school, many states offer inexpensive health insurance for your child. That's at least something. I'd advise strongly to do so.

-- Ann Markson (tngreenacres@hotmail.com), October 11, 2001.

Now wait just a minute all of you that are so quick to tell her she has to put her kid in school and get back in school herself. That is not necessary unless she herself decides she wants a "job" job. Many moms have homeschooled while running a cottage industry, my sister with 9 kids was one of them. She put her hand to doing anything and everything that became available: from a night job staying with elderly people, to building up a potato salad business from scratch to 95 gallons a week. Yes, she made it at home. Delivered it to a local cheese shop where it sold like hotcakes. She took in several elderly people that she cared for far better than they would have been cared for in a nursing home, while making that potato salad. She got her $200,000 home almost totally paid off all by herself.

What it boils down to is this: W O R K

You dare not sit around and count on others taking care of you. As others have said, eventually, they will not be there, and raising kids gets more and more expensive as they grow. Take a look at your own two hands, and realise that with those, must come your financial security. It is up to you. Sit, and poverty will sneak up on you. Get out of your chair and work your butt off, and you can chase poverty away. But it is entirely up to you and you alone. And the longer you sit and think about it, the closer the wolf will come to your door.

Think what you want in life. If it requires an education, then go get it. But if all you want to do is buy a small peice of property to get yourself where you are able to provide for yourself from your own land, then all you need to do is work like crazy at the best paying job you can snatch as long as it takes to get the money to buy the set-up you need. Use your own head, and take into account what you are good at. Sell baked goods at the local farmers market for instance. My mom started out with two loaves of bread, and built up to selling over a thousand dollars worth a week back in the seventies. It can be done, but to do something, you have got to get moving.

-- daffodyllady (daffodyllady@yahoo.com), October 11, 2001.

When did this go from encouraging a young mother to work hard, save well, and do the best for her child into a critique of her choices?

-- Tracy Rimmer (trimmer31@hotmail.com), October 11, 2001.

It went that way since we are a bunch of old farts , been there done that seen that heard that.And I for one am affraid for her to make the wrong decission and be dependent on anyone but herself.In the perfect world we could depend on someone else but not in this one.I have spoken with her off forum and have found out she is a very intelligent and educated woman who can take care of herself.

-- Patty {NY State} (fodfarms@slic.com), October 11, 2001.

I have also heard from this young lady and offer my sincere apologies- -she has/does/did all the things we are suggesting. Forgive me. Now I'll start making the list that answers your questions in the first place. Best to you.

-- Ann Markson (tngreenacres@hotmail.com), October 11, 2001.

Micheale, I have found that my small dairy goat herd has very much paid for itself. I milk 2 or 3 goats most all the time and with that milk I provide ALL our dairy products, feed a calf or two and also a pig. The buck kids I castrate and sell fairly young for meat. Rabbits absolutely do wonderful at raising young with bread from the surplus breadstore and goats milk to suppliment their alfalfa hay. With a large garden I can raise all my veggies and fruits so we have only coffee, a little white flour, and the most basic staples to buy. (I keep some ready made pasta around etc. but have done without or made my own when I was a single parent with three children) For our clothes I either sew them or buy at the thrift stores. As far as getting out of debt.......the pyrimid system really works well. Pay off the smallest bills first and then apply to the next smallest etc. until no debt. I have remarried and the children are all gone, but I remember those days of single parenting and think it is quite wonderful that your parents are so supportive as to have you with them. Best wishes to you and good luck in your venture.

-- diane (gardiacaprines@yahoo.com), October 12, 2001.

Some very good responses here that address the content of Micheale's post clearly, and others that seem to address the content of ... well, I'm not sure. I contacted Micheale via email to offer what little help I could and that was all I was going to do until I read over the post here. Being Irish as I am, I just had to add my two cents worth {grin}.

Micheale, it is a grand and noble task you've undertaken to homeschool your child and design your homebased business in order to do so. My wife and I are both post-college adults that spent a lot of time and money on schooling we niethier one use. We've both been a part of the corporate poo-poo, leaving the education of our children in the hands of those who purport to know what's best for our kids. Mistakes (for us), one and all. Frankly, I got tired of taking off work so I could go to school to insure the safety, health and well- being of my little girl. So, my wife shed the $50,000 a year stink of the corporate poo-poo to homeschool our children, we created a "partnership" arrangement with my mother on our 40 acres, and we're devoted to making our little slice of heaven self-sufficient.

This works for us, though there are sacrifices to be made (my girls don't go to the mall NEARLY as much as they would like to, and my old pickup has its share of rust), and we wouldn't have it any other way! The advice this old Irish fart has for you is really pretty simple - find your dream and live it! Don't give up on it and don't allow the pressures of what society says you HAVE to have detract you from your purpose! After all, you can't place monetary value on happiness and contentment!

Hoping your day is filled with an abundance of love, laughter and sunshine!

-- Phil in KS (pemccoy@yahoo.com), October 12, 2001.

Can offer no suggestions not already mentioned but...my grandmother lived with us while growing up & we liked it. IF you really want to go to school, there are some programs on-line that are good. A friend was checking into vet's asst. and many of the classes were available on line.

-- DW (djwallace@ctos.com), October 12, 2001.