Freedomgreenspun.com : LUSENET : Freedom! self reliance : One Thread
What is freedom?Is it really free?
-- Jessica Barry (email@example.com), October 14, 2001
Freedom's just another word for nothin' left to lose.......
-- Just Duckie (Duck@spazmail.com), October 14, 2001.
Freedom most certainly is not free. The American style of freedom never really existed on earth before with the possible exception of the nation of Isreal after they settled from their wanderings in the wilderness. Every Jew was a property owner and had equal representation in a very loose government where judges handled civil disputes. There was no king until Saul. The only law was the Law of Moses handed down from God, who was the real Authority.
Roman civilization had a good deal of freedom for those who were born into it or could buy their way into it. For others, there was only slavery. Not really the American way.
American freedom recognizes that every individual is a creation of God with the rights to "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness." No man can take those rights away, except by due process of law when someone has been charged and convicted of a crime. Government can not establish an official state religion. No one can enslave another. We enjoy the freedom of movement, the freedom of association, the freedom to worship as we please, the freedom to express our own political views (the freedom of speach is not the freedom to be as vulgar and profane as possible). This kind of liberty comes with the responsibility to honor and respect the liberty of others. It requires self restraint and discipline. It also requires vigilance to preserve the foundations of freedom. And it requires strength to defend it against those who would take it away.
Most religious and ideological systems in the world cannot tolerate such freedom and we are a threat to their way of life. Communism, socialism, facism, totalitariansim, radical Islamic fundamentalism, and other such systems have an intense hatred for American style liberty.
American style liberty is largely responsible for the mass evangelism that we have seen over the past 100 years in the modern missionary movement. It has allowed unrestricted spread of the gospel in the western world and in many third world countries. The true church continued to exist in the Soviet Union, but you didn't see them openly evangelizing their own people or sending out missionaries. They had to meet in secret because they had no liberty.
I think there has been a tendency to take our liberty (freedom) for granted and to not see it as a great opportunity provided by God from which to launch highly effective worldwide ministry. That door is beginning to close. American freedom allowed the church to flourish, but we have grown complacent. I believe that at times to be able to continue in the battle for men's souls we need to be willing to take up the battle against evil in the physcial realm - war. I don't see pacifism in Scripture.
-- Skip in Western WA (firstname.lastname@example.org), October 14, 2001.
Skip, thank you for a good response. We were given a precious gift, and we are throwing it away.
-- Kathleen Sanderson (email@example.com), October 14, 2001.
Skip, that was great. Thanks. John
-- John in S. IN (firstname.lastname@example.org), October 14, 2001.
"The price of freedom is eternal vigilance."
Can't remember who said this. (Senior moment)
No. Freedom is not free, and those who think it is not worth working for, fighting for, and dying for, really do not deserve its blessing.
Thanks Skip. We needed that.
Talk to you later.
-- Bob in WI (email@example.com), October 14, 2001.
Freedom is never free. Actually nothing worth having is free, if you don't pay for it... rest assured that someone has, or continues to. There are gifts, rights, endowments, exchanges, and forgiveness, but they still have a cost.
Skip, that was a beautiful explanation!
-- Doreen (firstname.lastname@example.org), October 15, 2001.
As I tell my kids all the time, anything worth having is worth working for! I thank the Lord for allowing me to live in this country, even with it's problems!
-- Deena in GA (email@example.com), October 15, 2001.
Bob -- I think it was Winston Churchill who said that. Whoever it was: how true.
Those of us who have never had to fight for our freedom, those of us who have never lost a brother, father, or son in that fight can't possibly understand. I sometimes see shadows in my Dad's eyes when he thinks about it.
I thank God for allowing me to be born into freedom. As they say, those of us who forget the past are doomed to repeat it -- and that scares the heck out of me.
-- Tracy Rimmer (firstname.lastname@example.org), October 16, 2001.
I stand corrected -- it was Thomas Jefferson.
-- Tracy (email@example.com), October 16, 2001.
Talk to you later.
-- Bob in WI (firstname.lastname@example.org), October 17, 2001.
Stan, you close with: I don't see pacifism in Scripture.
I do. Ps.34:14 1Pet. 3:11
Matt. 5:9 Rom. 12:21
1 Thess. 5:14
If you don't believe that God will judge and punish others then I fear you may have missed a basic point in the teachings of Christ. I don't want to start a theological fracas here, I just don't understand why people think God wants them to kill others, for any reason. Don't do evil, it is repeated over and over...
in God's love, gilly
-- gilly (email@example.com), October 21, 2001.
Of course freedom is not free - there's the Freedom Tax.
We haven't payed an installment in while. It looks like we made a large payment on 9/11. Or maybe that was just an added fee for inattention.
Hopefully we won't have to make any more payments here stateside, but rest assured we will have to pay elsewhere.
Our Founding Fathers understood this WELL.
We can choose to put off the payments (to our peril) or decide to pay sooner and not have to add the interest.
Remember the Freedom Tax motto (shamelessly stealing a line): "Pay it or pay it later" - You choose.
I think it was TJ who said "..the tree of Liberty must be watered by the blood of patriots ocassionally.."
-- Greybear (firstname.lastname@example.org), October 21, 2001.