our yard turns into a ledge where the property meets the road. the drop off is from 1' at the lowest to about 20' at the highest. the problem is that every year when the snow melts and we get rain a little more of the ledge lets go and we lose that piece of land. sometimes it may only be inches but at other times it can be a foot or more in spots.

the ledge that gives way is usually the steepest parts. there are spots where the rock and soil is gone from under the lawn and the only thing holding anything in place is tree roots.

we have asked around and read books but most give advise about errosin on slopes we have a drop off. we are all out of ideas on what to do to stop this from happening. in most areas it would be impossible to plant shrubs or grass. there must be a vine of some sort that would grow fast, strong and cling so that it would help hold things together.

if you have had the same problem or even if you think you have an idea on what to do to help please let me know.

thank you.

-- george (bngcrview@aol.com), November 14, 2001

Answers

there are spme tropical plants that wil take over, but wont over winter in cold temps,,,,,, how about some grape vines,,, or some broad leaf plant. Where does the "ledge" go? is it like a ravine or is it something that you COULD fill in?, how about old hay spread over the area,, that may hold till after spring.

-- stan (sopal@net-port.com), November 14, 2001.

George,is the rain water from the road causing the problem? if it is call the state road dept. if its not here a few ideas...#1 lay down a heavey weed fabric and use sod staples to hold it in place then cover with stone#2 plant ivy or crown vetch{the purple flowering ground cover the state uses on slops}#3deep rooted lilyes may help too. The crown vetch is easy to grow and you can buy bulk seed for it,what area are you in? I am able to buy wholesale{we own a landscape company} so if you need a list of suppliers let me know.One more thing crown vetch can become verty invasive.

-- renee o'neill (oneillsr@home.com), November 14, 2001.

i live where the temp can go down to -20% the ledge is right at the road. grape vines sound like a good idea. stop errosion and get food also. thanks, what kind of grapes would you suggest.

-- george (bngcrview@aol.com), November 14, 2001.

most wild grapes are just concords anyways,, and grow just about anywhere

-- stan (sopal@net-port.com), November 14, 2001.

Hi George, Like Mr/MS. O'Neil eluded too, look at the many methods used by highway departments that are faced with the problem constantly. Natural vegetation is the best and least expensive in my imho. You always have the option of building a retaining wall.

-- ken (steelframeme@yahoo.com), November 14, 2001.

Hey there George, alot of people all over the world, use asparagus for erosion. Asparagus has a huge root system.. I had to move a bed of it once, and I tell you, it is not something I want to do again! Another plus is it's edible and the ferns are very pretty the other times.

-- Annie (mistletoe@kconline.com), November 14, 2001.

I love Annie's answer!

-- renee o'neill (oneillsr@home.com), November 14, 2001.

If it's the road cutting that is eating into your land, then the people who are responsible for the road are responsible for stopping the erosion. Of course, you have to tell them it's happening.

-- Don Armstrong (darmst@yahoo.com.au), November 14, 2001.

grapes and asparagus. i would have never thought about food crops to stop this kind of erosion. i think i'd like to try them both. as far as the road cutting into the bank that had to have been what started it. the road was probably put in way before i was born so i don't think there would be much i could get the highway dept to do for me now.

-- george (bngcrview@aol.com), November 14, 2001.

I never even thought of asparagus as an anti-erosion crop. Must try, thanks Annie.

-- diane (gardiacaprines@yahoo.com), November 14, 2001.

Can you backslope the bank to get it to where it's stable? A vertical drop won't be stable in most soils and is obviously hard to get vegetation started on. The active erosion is occuring at the "toe" of the slope, where the water flows, except during high flow periods when it can eat up higher on the slope. With streams, this erosion undercuts the bank and then the bank fails by sloughing off soil from the top of the bank or ledge as you describe into the "stream" or road ditch in your case. Twenty feet is a lot to deal with. If you can stabilize the toe slope with anchored cedars or rip rap you have half the battle done. Trees or native grass or asparagus as suggested might work best for planting, big, deep root systems are needed. Sorry to blather on but I deal with this kind of thing at work fairly regularly. It can be tricky and can blow out with one bad rain event but lots of people have had success with revetments and plantings. It wouldn't hurt to call the road department, if they're still actively maintaining the road and ditch this is a part of maintenance. More info might be found with research on keywords like streambank stabilization, cedar tree revetments, stream downcutting, stream hydrology etc. Yeah, it's a road ditch, but it's the same science and same possible solutions.

-- Susan (smtroxel@socket.net), November 14, 2001.

could you build a wall up next to the drop off? I have the same problem, but only a 4' dropp off at the deepest end. I've often thought about building a wall between the the road ditch and the drop off using railroad ties and spikes and then backfill it with dirt to make it level once again. I haven't done it yet but maybe something like that may help you also.

-- r.h. in okla. (rhays@sstelco.com), November 15, 2001.

CALL YOU LOCAL HIGHWAY OFFICE AND GET ONE OF THE ENGINEERS TO COME PAY A VISIT. [1]DETERMINE THE RIGHT OF WAY.IF ITS ON THEIR PROPERTY THEN ITS THEIR PROBLEM.START TALKING ABOUT BEING UNSAFE WITH CHILDREN IN THE AREA. [2]IF ITS ON YOURS TRY CONVINCE THE GUY THAT ITS PART THEIR FAULT BECAUSE OF THE ERROSION. [3]CALL YOUR LOCAL POLITICIAN.

THE BANK SHOULD HAVE BEEN SLOPED 2:1 WHEN THE ROAD WAS BUILT.FAULT THE HIGHWAY DEPARTMENT ON THIS.NOW AS FOR PEOPLE TELLING YOU TO SLOPE IT BACK THAT MEANS A LOT OF EARTHWORK.FOR A 2:1 YOU WOULD HAVE TO SLOPE IT BACK 4O'. ASPARAGUS AND GRAPES CAN`T HOLD GRAVITY BACK.PLUS THE SALT FROM THE ROAD WOULD MOST LIKELY KILL THEM.WHEM MUD WANTS TO SLIDE...IT SLIDES.THE SLOPE SOUNDS TOO STEEP TO JUST PEG IT AS WELL. IT LOOKS LIKE THE JOB FOR A LOCAL EXCAVATION COMPANY.BITCH AND WINE AND SEE IF YOU CAN GET IT DONE AS HIGHWAY IMPROVEMENT.IF ITS ON THEIR PROPERTY I`M SURE THEY WILL REMEDY IT.

CORDWOODGUY

-- CORDWOODGUY (cordwoodguy@n2teaching.com), November 16, 2001.