have you been your own general contractor?

greenspun.com : LUSENET : Countryside : One Thread

I'm reading books on how to build your own house. Has anyone acted as their own general contractor to build their own house? Can you recommend any good books? Advice?

-- bill harrington (bill_harrington@msn.com), December 05, 2001

Answers

Hi Bill;

First off... do you have any experience in construction? If the answer is no then don't even think about it. I was a plumbing contractor for almost 20 years and the biggest and mostly costly mistake that a homeowner could make was to try to be their own "general". There is a reason that the general contractor gets the money he does. Someone has to set the schedule.. someone has to make sure the foundation contractor is there at the right time and the electrician has to set up temporary service and the plumber has to put chases through the foundation walls at the right place so his water and waste lines will be where they are supposed to be. Also what happens when the insulation contractor can't get there when he promised and the sheet rocker is having goods delivered. It can be a MASSIVE undertaking. Also another word of caution. In many cases when a subcontractor finds out that the homeowner is going to be the general contractor he will most always inflate his estimate to cover his butt because experience has taught him that these things usually are a disaster. However if you think you can handle it.. then go ahead. Experience is ALWAYS the best teacher. Good Luck Ken

-- Ken in Maine (kenjan@nh.adelphia.net), December 05, 2001.


Yup... we did, not once, but twice. As Ken said, it IS a big hassle...it consumes your whole life during the process...but we saved a lot of money. It also helps if you are already in, or familiar with the industry. My husband is a commercial drywaller, and knows many tradespeople...i.e. roofers, insulators, finishers, masons, etc. so we knew who we wanted to get bids from and what projects we wanted to tackle ourselves... still... both times (silly me), I said "Remind me never to do this again!" Seriously though...we saved thousands of dollars, and have a gorgeous, one of a kind home that we are confident was built by the best :))) Patty Prairie Oak Miniatures http://www.minifarm.com/prairie_oak visit our message board! http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Littlegoats moderator

-- Patty Putnam (WI) (littlegoats@wi.rr.com), December 05, 2001.

Listen to Ken & Patti. Been there, done that-never again!

-- Kathy (catfish201@hotmail.com), December 05, 2001.

I read those books, too. But I also had just bought my land in a new place where I didn't know anybody, much less tradepeople, so I realised I couldn't be my own general. I could, however, take part as much as I could, as much as I could handle -- sometimes more than I had bargained for. I hired the septic design guy, I hired the welldrilling company, and then I hired the general contractor when I tried to get bids on the foundation (the concrete guys) and I could not get anybody to pay attention. You will find that the BIGGEST problem you will have -- with or without a general -- is simply getting subcontractors to turn up when they say they will, getting them to work a full day and get the job done. It is astonishing even in a recession what little work ethic there is and how much drugs & alcohol are rife in the trades. Since I was building a strawbale house, and there had only been one other built in this county, I pretty much had to hire the guy who worked on the first one. Which turned out to be a good thing, because, being into green & alternative building techiniques, he was a very honest person. The head framer, who was the one with the most experience in construction, wisely & happily was able to leave the administration & telephone sourcing & scheduling of subs to the general, leaving him free to concentrate on carpentry. Which is good, because he built a very strong house, and we got married a year later and he lives in this strawbale house now...but I digress.

Being the general contractor is like being the conductor of a symphony orchestra, it's all timing and getting everybody to work together on time and in sequence. It's hard. Every trade things the others are idiots. And having a general whom you can rely on to look out for your interests is a really good thing, if you can find one. Then you have one central person to come down on when things aren't going the way you want -- or going at all. Spend plenty of time finding someone you feel you can trust and communicate with. Check references for sure. Time s[ent beforehand will save you plenty of time, money and frustration later on in the project.

-- snoozy (bunny@northsound.net), December 05, 2001.


Generally speaking, you'll feel like you've earned every dime you saved through the process of being an owner-builder. The good news is that when you're all done you'll have what you want and not have a mortgage payment you can't shoulder or a house you don't like. I'd say, "Go for it," and enjoy the learning experience. I hope this helps.

-- Gary in Indiana (gk6854@aol.com), December 05, 2001.


We read the books on how to build your own house (Sam Clark's Independent Builder was our Bible) and built one entirely ourselves with minimal prior experience! Our blueprints were pencil drawings on yellow pads. If you have the time and are not a total klutz, it's a very satisfying experience. The only thing we hired out was having a cement basement poured and having a tin roof put on. The hassle of hiring people was far worse than doing the work ourselves. If you're not doing the work, I'd say hire a contractor.

-- Katherine in KY (KyKatherine@Yahoo.com), December 05, 2001.

We are currently building our own home. I wouldn't trade the experience for all the money in the world. We can honestly say that our daughters future husband will be a lucky man, because this girl knows how to build a house! LOL!

The best resource you can have is someone who has done the same thing as you, listen to them, and learn from their mistakes. Another good book is Readers Digest *Complete Do-it-yourself* Manual.

We have kept a journal of our adventure, because we plan on selling this one, and building another.

A few things we would do is: Build a slab with in floor heating. One floor, with a storm shelter/utility room underground. Many south facing windows, and would make it 34 feet wide instead of 30.

Also on yahoo groups there are a few DIY lists. They are a good resource as well.

Laurean

-- Laurean (cranston_06010@yahoo.com), December 05, 2001.


Hello Bill, My wife and I have built our own house from scratch. We poured the foundation and built the cellar. We built the deck and the trusses. We roof it in tin ourselves, we closed in the walls and built the windows and doors from scratch. We insulated. We have installed some of the plumbing and are working on the electrical now. We built the partitions, staircase, and porches. After the electrical is finished, we will begin the drywalling and paneling. I have built one of the kitchen cabinets and will work on more in the near future as well. The floor will be the last phase, as we want to do it all in oak and do not want to damage it while working on the other projects. So, far it has taken us one year to reach the stage that we are at. If you can see the placement of things and how they interact with the placement of other things, you should have no trouble in building it yourself. Building from scratch is the best and cheapest way. If you are not sure of how to do a particular phase, just step back, research it, think it through completely, then attempt it slowly until you figure it out. If you make a mistake, just correct it as soon as you realize it. Its really not as hard as people make it out to be. Make sure your piers/foundation is square and level. I did it with just a couple of string levels and a tape measure. My elevation is on the side of a hill. One corner in nearly in the ground and another corner is nearly six foot out of the ground! I did it on a hillside without much knowledge. You can do it to and if you are lucky you will have more level ground to work with. I framed out my first floor using doubled up 2x10s on the outside and as my support beams. In between my floor joist are 2x6s. The deck is exterior grade 3/4 inch fiber board. We (my wife and I) made the trusses from doubled up 2x6s. They are at a 30 degree angle (A-frame). They are 28 feet long from the deck to the peak. We built seven of them and ran a doubled up 2x6 across the middle of each one to serve as the floor joist for the second floor. they were too heavy for us to raise by ourselves. The neighbors came down and we had them all erected in just a couple of hours. That is the only thing anyone helped us with. After the trusses were secured and level, I framed out the second floor and laid the deck down. I did it this way, because I knew that I would need the second floor deck to work on when I went to put the roof on. The roof is tin. I spaced purloins four foot apart and used them as a laddor to help put the tin on the trusses. I did not want to have to climb to the top of the roof to put the ridge cap on last so, I worked it out to run the ridge cap as I added each sheet of tin. The tin was in thirteen foot sections. I put the first to pieces on at the top and then nailed the ridge cap to those sections. I then added two more pieces of tin and nailed the ridge cap to them. I did this by standing on the second floor deck with a laddar and climbing up the purlons. I would reach aross each section of tin and nail it down. The hard part was the last two pieces of tin. I had to build a scaffold out of 2x4s and climb out onto it from the upstairs window to nail them on. After, the roof was on I closed in the ends and added built my windows and doors. That was the shell. My cost including the tin was just under $2,000.00 Inside I added the insulation, partitions, and a woodstove. We moved in! When I started the plumbing I made sure that there was room to bring the tub/bath enclosure through the house and into the bathroom. The I closed in the bathroom. I have ran my cold water pipes from the basement, (easy). I put the bathroom and the kitchen back to back so that the plumbing would be in the middle (wall). The electrical was just a matter of running the number of circuits from each room and having them all come out to the same place to be hooked up to the breaker box. I had to stop there for a while and learn how to hook up a couple of three way light switches and how to hook up the box. I built the first cabinet, after we got our propane stove, so that the cabinet would be the same height as the stove. I will build the others that are around the refrigerator after we get it. The stair case inside was built so that it would not be seen from the living room. It took two days to build and was my first attempt at building one. Now, we are almost ready for drywall. You see, if you plan out each step and can see the end results in your head first, you should not have to many problems. I just would step back and think about how each step effected the next. I did all this while working a full-time job! I have just some basic tools and a working knowledge of construction. My occupation is cook not, carpenter. I am 45 years old.

IF you want to see some of our progress, you can view the photos I have posted on my webpage: Http://communities.msn.com/livingoffthelandintheozarks

Sincerely,

Ernest

-- http://communities.msn.com/livingoffthelandintheozarks (espresso42@hotmail.com), December 05, 2001.


Answer to your question: Yes. Would I ever want to do it again? NO!!!!!!! Okay, well, maybe. Just once more. No more than once more! The stress is unbelievable (no matter how experienced you are)...materials late, budgets over, lenders who are idiots, subs who don't show up, legal restrictions that border on Kafka-esque, and most importantly, people who don't hold to the same high standards that YOU do about what is important for YOUR home. Even if you are the most mellow, easy-going person (like I pretend to be) you will end up a screaming insane person while you build. My advice to anyone within "earshot" is: DON'T TRY THIS AT HOME. If you do and if you are married, try to pro-rate marriage counseling into your lending package....if you survive, you will go on to stay married forever...

-- sheepish (WA) (the_original_sheepish@hotmail.com), December 06, 2001.

Oh, and one more thing...we have built many larger "projects" all by ourselves from scratch: barns, bunkhouse, garages, shops, etc. (Did I mention remodels and rehabs?) ANY project that you have time to build yourself (whether you have the knowledge or need to learn as you go) will be infinitely easier, imho, than building with all the tradespeople and business folk who get involved in a financed home. Of course, you'll probably still have the local building inspection folks and whatnot, but if you have the luxury (!) of doing it all yourself, and no time contraints, you might find the project enjoyable...that is, if you don't mind a few more birthdays while you get the work done. (sounds good to me!)

-- sheepish (WA) (the_original_sheepish@hotmail.com), December 06, 2001.


Been there, done that. Maybe I was lucky on a few things. Then again, hear that the Good Lord looks out for children and fools.

Ask as many stupid questions as you can think of. Good people will realize you are in over your head and kind watch over you.

Some women who have gone through a difficult childbirth would do it again, some wouldn't. You never know what you are capable of until you try. You'll have a few regrets, just don't hang on to them too long.

-- paul (wprimeroselane@msn.com), December 06, 2001.


I would strongly advise against it. If you feel like you really want to proceed, try and work for someone in the trades to get a little experience. I have been a drywall contractor for ten years and can tell you that one thing we look for is an inexperienced person who is acting as their own GC. Most guys inflate their prices, some do it to take advantage but others do it because they have to hold the homebuilders hand during the job. You make more trips to the job and usually there are scheduling problems. Not only that but when we spackle we always end up with problems because the GC doesn't understand what the finished product is supposed to look like so I always have to go by the jobsite a time or two at the end to "fix" something that isn't wrong. Without actual experience or the ability to do a majority of the work yourself, I would be wary of building a house myself.

-- Bob Fade (fadefarm@aol.com), December 06, 2001.

We also built our own house. We didn't contract anything out though. My husband did all the work from excavating, to block laying, cutting lumber, all the plumbing, electrical. You name it! It is a wonderful experience, and you get a great deal of satisfaction from knowing you did everything on your own.

Are you the type that is not easily frustrated? You will need a lot of stubborn tenacity to accomplish this goal, but when you are done, you will feel a sense of great pride. It will probably take you 3 times as long as you think and cost twice as much money!!!!

-- Melissa (me@home.net), December 06, 2001.


I am not saying that you should not build your house from scratch -- only that if you use subcontractors, it is easier to have a general contractor to organize it. I agree with Sheepish -- it's fine, fun & rewarding to do your own work, but getting other people to do the work when & as it should be done, is a major headache. Also, it depends if you are building a house to county code. Some inpectors are gentle on the owner/builder, some will & can jerk you around for not hiring it out to professionals. Electrical especially.

-- snoozy (bunny@northsound.net), December 06, 2001.

I started out by building my own house. Then I sold it, and built another. I enjoyed it so much that I became a general contractor. Mostly self taught, unfortunately; I recommend working with a builder for a while before undertaking it, but hey, I didn't!

All this about "orchestrating" is only true if you have to have everything fall right into place. An owner builder, not trying to maximize profits, need not be as concerned about it. You can wait until you're pretty much done with one phase to get the next phase started. No big deal.

My personal recommendation is to build the house in stages, with preplanning for expansion. if you do this, you can likely avoid having to get any loan at all. You'll save up to hundreds of thousands of dollars over going with a conventional loan. Although with the low rates we're currently experiencing, this is not as critical as a few years ago.

I, too, say "go for it"!

-- joj (jump@off.c), December 06, 2001.



Thank you for your insightful answers. Book knowledge is fine, but it's nice to hear from all of you folks who have actually built a house. Ideally, I'd like to find a house with some land, where the house needs an addition. I think I could handle an addition, like a mother-in-law suite I could rent out. A whole house sounds like a lot of work. :)

-- win harrington (bill_harrington@msn.com), December 06, 2001.

Been on both ends several tines, both general cont. and self cont, (started that way). First of all keep the schedule loose. Dont get excited and most of all trust people. If you dont generally trust people You'll probably sprnd an inordinate amount of time worrying about getting screwed. Do your checking on the contractors before you start, not while they are working.

-- charlie (charliesap@pldi.net), December 06, 2001.

Moderation questions? read the FAQ