Osama bin Laden Video; have you seen it?greenspun.com : LUSENET : Anarchy Again : One Thread
I don't watch the tube. Is it OBL? Is it dubbed? Is it for real? Is it, in your humble opinion, the "smoking gun" Dubya says it is?
Why did Dubya and his ilk decide to release this tape? I thought he was worried about "hidden messages" in OBL tapes, and didn't want them aired...
-- joj (email@example.com), December 14, 2001
You know, I haven't even watched it. I try to avoid the television set. In all seriousness, though, it could be just more propaganda. I mean, it's not like we don't have the technology to make a computer generated "home movie" of Bin Laden. And also if it is real, I doubt he'd be speaking english in the video. And if he's not speaking English, are we supposed to trust the person who's doing the dubbing/subtitles? I'm not saying that's this whole video was a fraud, i'm just putting out a few ideas. remember that movie Wag the Dog?
-- Tamara (Twilborn@earthlink.net), December 14, 2001.
I figure the tape is for real. Here's why.
First, if you want to know what's the front edge of technology for computer-image generation, all you have to do is go to a Hollywood movie like "Final Fanatasy". It's good, but not good enough to fool anyone for more than a few minutes. You look at the images of the Bin Laden tape and they are him alright. Not an actor. Not a computer generated image of him.
The only thing left is the voice, not the words. After all, millions of people speak both Arabic and English and every one of them would holler FOUL if the translation didn't match what Bin Laden was saying. That just leaves the question of whether the voice is a sound-alike actor. Not that many people know what Bin Laden sounds like anyway.
Toss out the idea that we can computer-generate a voice. We can't. WAY too many tonal complexities. Just think about every computer-generated voice you ever heard. They are a joke.
What you do here is a sanity check of the voice against the image. The image checks out as the real thing. If the voice exactly matches what the lips are doing, then chances are really high that the voice matches the image and wasn't dubbed over.
There is nothing implausible about Bin Laden doing and saying nasty things about the USA. He crows about it. This fits right in. Why not? It would be like a tape of Saddam Hussein saying he hates the USA. Not very astonishing.
So, either you just accept the tape as real, or you have to really stretch the reality near to the breaking point. Why bother?
-- Miserable SOB (firstname.lastname@example.org), December 14, 2001.
An image doesn't have to be computer animation to be done on a computer. They could have placed an image of him from some other video on the foreground of another piece of film. They could have hired an actor who looked similar to him. Like I said, I'm not accusing anyone of fraud, but i believe that it's a good idea to think about the possibilities before leaping headfirst into a conclusion.
-- Tamara (Twilborn@earthlink.net), December 14, 2001.
As despicable as I see our government, I see no reason why the video would be faked. Bad Guys can and do fight EACH OTHER. Just ask any Eastern European Jew who's old enough to remember Hitlet and Stalin.
Simply fudging the translation would definitely be a bad idea. The are too many people out there that speak both English and Arabic and would know better. Such a thing would have them crying FOUL and trigger a massive backlash against the US. Bush and his cronies may be evil, but they're not stupid.
Also, said speakers could also tell if the film was dubbed, and would elict a similar reaction.
-- Nexar (Icant@tellyou.com), December 14, 2001.
And it shows them with a chopper that the government says didnt get shot down but had crashed. The Talabon said they shot it. THe video showed them looting it. And quite happy too.
-- Tator (email@example.com), December 14, 2001.
I know its real, in my company we some times deal with high-tech video, and image manipulation on contract, and if you know what to look for you know the video is genuine, as for the sound I donít know. I know itís very easy to manipulate sound but I donít really deal with that so Iím unable to give a professional opinion but Iím sure its correct because the government wouldnít have distributed it, an ďanonymous-sourceĒ would have if it was fake.
-- Bob Knob (Bob@Knob.com), December 14, 2001.
I think its a real video, no doubt about that, but I dont think that IS Osama in the video. Theres no way he would allow such a video to exist with his knowladge, or even to let it leak. I think they got an Osama-a-like to say those things and mumble a lot. This guys nose is also too small for OBL.
-- Krunch Kobra (??????@??????.???), December 14, 2001.
On some levels I agree with Krunch, but did anybody else notice that the inaudible bits are the most incriminating, and that any America hating person saying the same thing does not really incriminate themselves at all? Look at 'Anthony Mundine' the boxer from Australia! Enough said.....
-- Damn Straight (on firstname.lastname@example.org), December 15, 2001.
the tape isn't interesting because osama is saying bad things about the usa. it is strong evidence/proof that he knew about the wtc before it happened. and it shows his followers that he thinks it was funny that some of his own martyrs didn't know they were on a suicide mission until boarding the planes. that would be like bush laughing at the bodies of dead US soldiers in afghanistan. if you have to kill people in the name of anything you shouldn't think it is funny.
-- (email@example.com), December 17, 2001.
osama should get a sex change and live under his alcita rules!
-- Rensokuken of hell (firstname.lastname@example.org), December 23, 2001.
fake fake fake. doesn't even look like him.
-- duane (email@example.com), December 24, 2001.
Everyone IS crying foul in the Arab world
-- Scott (firstname.lastname@example.org), January 24, 2002.
i think the video is fake its clear and even if its not . the translation is compleatly wrong. i wander if they were saving money on the translation
-- me (email@example.com), February 21, 2002.
FUCK SAKE..... its damn well clear that those video(s) are fake.. just look at him!
-- Mike Derbyshire (firstname.lastname@example.org), May 09, 2002.
The first 3 videos released from the Alhazir news are real....but if you notice in all 3 he says nothing about actually flying planes into buildings, he says hes glad it happend but he doesn't say I did it.
Then all of a sudden this last video comes out hes talking with his buddy about how they did it. Wow...amazing....why the fuck whould he video tape him self talking to someone and admit to doing this act of terror. And then deny it in 3 other tapes. Also if you look at it, the quality of it is horible...it looks like the camera was droped 5 or six times from a 2 story building...osama looks almost black, not the browned skin he had in the 3 other tapes. they also lowered the volume on the speach so that you don't hear it very well. And put subtitles, but they only did that on this one. It looks extreamly fake. They could have easily gotten somone to act as osama and take in aribic. I mean this is the .gov they got unlimited funds from all of us. I think they can make a cheesey video.
-- Zeed (email@example.com), May 30, 2002.
If it is or it is'nt doesn't really matter, what matters is that the government wouldnt put it on tv if it didn't serve there interest. I mean maybe hes real, maybe hes a computer animation or a hired actor, maybe hes a flying elvis in a vegas show and was hired to fool the easily fooled american sheeple. Who cares! the government just wants to give people more reasons to feel scared and hopeless so he gets a higher approval rating ( if that rating is even accurate ) and he can go ahead and wage world war three if he wants to, as long as he can say that he has the peoples backing he'll go to iraq burn everything doewn to the ground and piss on the ashes, even if his approval isnt high hell go ahead and do whatever he wants because, quite frankly americnas do know what they want, they're still trying to figure out if joe millionaire is really a millionaire, or who is gonna win american idol., For anyone who thinks W bush is acting on his own behalf on anything he does let me just say i stopped thinking that a long time ago. If you really want to know who is the puppetmaster manipulating all of Dubyas strings from some unknown location from above, just do some research and find out who has funded him since his college days and maybe before that, His Dad you say, maybe , but who funded his dad, ...........i guess i digress a little too much but there is just so much i want to say and not enough time or space to say it.
-- unimportant (firstname.lastname@example.org), February 25, 2003.