Thought I'd run this one by you guys. My 15 yr. old daughter is training her young gelding as much as she can. He will be 2 yrs. old this March. She has done alot with him and has done a fine job but the problem is he always nips at her. Well, today he bit her good. She spends quite a bit of time with him, grooms him, leads him around, has him used to a halter and now bridle. Not sure what to do about this. She punches him a good one when he does this but it hasn't stopped his bad habit. At times he gets too energetic and she leaves the pin. We will be hiring someone to saddle break him but we want to cure him of this biting. Thanks for your help!

-- Pat (mikulptrc@aol.com), December 25, 2001

Answers

Hi, Punching the colt will not help,, he just thinks you want to rough house. Please take a look at a trainer named "John Lyons". He has a time proven method for stopping colts from bitting.

Another thought, is you might want to put a U-Chiffeny (not the straight bar one) on your colt`s halter. This will give your colt something to chew on other than your daughter. We have used this method for over 25 years with good results. You can buy one anywhere or from anyone that supplies race horses.

Good luck, Bergere

-- Bergere (autumnhaus@aol.com), December 25, 2001.

Bergere's suggestion of John Lyon's training methods is a good one, I believe he recommends making the horse think he's going to die for 3 seconds after he's bitten you--the only thing that's off limits is his head. I like Mark Rashid's training ideas too, he has written three books on training and they read novels.

Bergere--what's a U-Chiffeny? I think I've seen them used on young race horses, but I'm not sure.

Stacy in NY

-- Stacy (KincoraFarm@aol.com), December 25, 2001.

Nipping and biting is a stage that colts go through. Some are worse than others. Most of the time a good crack on the nose will break them from it. And it must be painful enough to stick in their memory. If you do it lightly then it doesn't have the memory effect and, yes, they will think you are playing and continue to nip. Also, continued light bopping on the nose will have the effect of making them shy away when you raise your hand in front of them. Sometimes, if a colt has been fed out of your hand quite often, then they tend to nip around on you, looking for the treat they think you have. I'm sure your daughter will do a good job with him and he'll turn out fine.

-- Red Neck (Secesh@CSA.com), December 25, 2001.

This gelding does not respect your daughter. She has to be above him in the pecking order. IMHO a horse that bites is the most dangerous. When she leaves the pen she is being subordenent to him. I dont believe most 15 yo should be training a young horse. If you watch a young horse with its dam or any other horse they would get a good kick or more for that kind of behavior. Punching him will only make him head shy. John Lyons as said before, has many good training methods. If I can be of further help you can email me. Merry Christmas

-- tracy (murfette@stargate.net), December 25, 2001.

HI, A U-Chiffeny, is used mostly on race horses for control of bitting and rearing. Is hard to explain,, but I have used them for many, many years with very good results.

Is looks like a round circle with a U in the area where the horse wears it in it`s mouth. It is attached to the halter by clips, it gives the handler more control. Bitting is dangerous, but there is many causes for this. One could be the horse wants to be the Alpha over the handler,, but what I have seen is many colts are having a hard time dealing with teething. The cool chiffeny bit gives them something to chew on, and calms them down. Just like for a baby human. :O)

Hitting or punching the horse`s in the head, with your hand or what ever, does not get rid of the problem,, it will only make it worse, many times becoming more and more agressive and/or Head shy.

I have also put Large round heavy duty X-large dog chew toys hug by a heavy duty chain in the colts stall or run in shed and I found this helps when they are teething.

Please do take a look at the "John Lyons" Method of getting a horse not to bite.

-- Bergere (Autumnhaus@aol.com), December 25, 2001.

Dont know the Lyons way but a friend told me of something she had heard that sounded Intersting, carry a hat pin and when he goes to bite stick him with it as he bites. He dosnt get head shy as your hand dosnt move [ he sticks his self]and a couple times of the prick and biting isnt fun any more.Your daughter needs to be top horse, If she has trouble then get her some help as every time he wins and she lets him get away with something he will become harder to handle.good luck.

-- kathy h (ckhart55@earthlink.net), December 25, 2001.

I found Bergeres comments very interesting and they made since to me. If your daughter is like most of us at that age..she loves to snuggle around on this colts head and in particular its nose/mouth area. Probably likes to feed him out of her hand too. It is so easy for these young colts to pick up on something naughty!

I had a girl friend up home that broke her own horses. I remember her tellin me that her colt (2 at the time) was nippin..then it was bitin. She did not find this to be an endearing quality. One day I was talkin to her and we were talking about the horses. I asked about her biting colt. She looked at me and said..he does not bite anymore. I pondered that for a minute, looked at her and said welllll..are ya gonna share this miracle? She looked at me and told me she had been working him on the ground. Went to saddle him and he turned around and got her...SHE never thought twice (she was pretty mad by this time) she turned around, grabbed him by the halterand bit him on the end of the nose just as hard as she could. He never but I mean he NEVER even looked like he wanted to nip after that! If you are going to try this one...I suggest that she make the first bite .. a hard bite, like my friend did. So there is no room for the colt to think that its a game.

Thanks a lot for bringing up this subject. Its been alot of years since that incident .. I got a good chuckle thinking about that again.

Good luck to your daughter training her horse. It is a major challenge in patience and a learning experience for both the colt and the girl.

-- Sher in se Iowa (riverdobbers@webtv.net), December 26, 2001.

Thanks, Bergere. I have seen them but I never knew what they were really called, I've only heard them referred to as "colt bits."

I've heard of people using a pin, or a straight nail, not to stab but just to have the horse run into it--from what I hear it works fairly well. A girlfriend of mine bit her horse on the nose when he bit her, this was years ago but it still makes me smile when I think of it. The only way to describe the look on that horse's face was shock. She bit him so hard it left a mark! It makes sense that's what an older horse would do to a younger one acting up.

Good suggestions, and I agree with not hitting him in the head it'll only make him head shy. I also agree with letting them know that you are dominant, don't let him in your space, make him listen to you and not let his attention wander.

Stacy in NY

-- Stacy (KincoraFarm@aol.com), December 26, 2001.

Try one of those plastic squeeze lemons full of lemon juice. A good squirt in the mouth when he makes a move to bite ought to discourage him, and it doesn't involve any hitting or poking.

-- Shannon at Grateful Acres Animal Sanctuary (gratacres@aol.com), December 26, 2001.

Thanks for all the answers!! I believe you are right in my daughter showing him who is going to be superior. I'm sure the biting is a number of things - not only who's gonna be boss but also teething, playing and just being a frisky young horse. She is doing a real fine job training him! She's alot braver than I am. Thanks again for all your help!

-- Pat (mikulptrc@aol.com), December 26, 2001.

Oh, how the biting the horse brings back memories. We had race horses when I was a young teen, well my parents trained for others also. One of those horses was quite mean and would run from the back of the stall and hit the door teeth nashing. Everyone would make a wide path around the front of his stall, needless to say his actions were cause from years of abuse with another owner/ trainer. One day I was not paying attension to where I was in the shed row and out he came teeth and all, well as timing would have it I just reacted by grabbing his halter and biting him really hard before he'd had the chance to get me. Speaking of funny looks on a horses face, but it was worth it because he NEVER ran at me again, he still did it to others though. Gradually I built a repoire with him and we became very good buddies. In the winter he'd nicker to me and come to the fence for a scratch behind the ears, he NEVER offered to bite me again even when I had to cury comg 2" of mud off of him in the early spring, he was very patient with me working the clumps out. I to believe it's probably a combination of things, but she'll need to be at the top of the pecking order, and sometimes it isn't always done with kindness.

-- Kelle in MT (kvent1729@aol.com), December 26, 2001.

My horse got me on the nose the other day. My wife was bitten, long ago, hard enough to have to get stitches an quite a few of them. I bit my horse back. Works on dogs to- although dogs are easier to hold down. Biting back is the way to show your position in the herd/ pack. Dont bite hard enough to draw blood or anything, though.

-- Kevin in NC (Vantravlrs@aol.com), December 26, 2001.

Try a boiled potato. Boil it but, don't let it cool. Take a some cloth and wrapped it around the part of the body the horse bites alot. Then place the potato on the cloth. cover it with your cloths. Then go out and grom your horse. Wait for him to bit you. He will bit into the potato and and not you. He will burn his mouth and he won't want to do it again. Read it in a horse Magazine. Try it it might work. I know it sounds mean but it just might do the job.

-- Bri, (Bodaciousshowhorse@myexcel.com), December 30, 2001.

hey ms. bri! i got that potato trick from a walter farley/black stallion book. and boy does it work! i used it quite effectively on 2 diff. 'soured'[read too smart to be left that bored] 1st ponies for rich kids who had moved onto 'new & better horses.'to my knowledge those beasties never bit again.

On the second one a big 14hand pony,[hey i was small!] i had a friend as back up since i thought there was a chance the big brute was gonna try & take me on afterward. She was absolutely no help, she fell into another stall laughing at his 'lip gymnastics!' Thankfully he decided to respect every motion of my arms from then on, not head shy just kept watching those arms.

& i promise shannon they had no blisters or problems eating or drinking immediately afterward. i brought treats to give after the punishment.

leave the poato unwrapped or in only one layer of tin foil, but put a hot pad 'tween you & the hot spud. if the horse is a back/butt nipper put the tater in your back pocket, it sticks out & is irrisistable . arm-face biters are trickier & take some courage on your part to hold still & watch yourself be bitten.

isn't amazing how many stalls a 15 yr. old will muck to get riding time when she does not own her own horse?

-- bj pepper in C. MS. (pepper.pepper@excite.com), January 01, 2002.

Bj Pepper,

I think I also read that in that book too but I also read it in a meg. I'm not sure witch one right off hand but, It sounds as though it would work great!

-- Bri, (Bodaciousshowhorse@myexcel.com), January 13, 2002.