I've read a lot of things about Alexander and Hephaestion and their relationship. I'm wondering what the general consensus is. Where they lovers?

-- Anonymous, December 25, 2001

Answers

I had heard wonderous, lustful tales of this testicleless beauty Begoas once before; however i never dreamed that Stone would have the passion to put such a sweet poopshoot in this oscar winning film. Yea i said it oscar winning. It is a masterpiece only to be thoroughly enjoyed over a digiorno pizza and a cleveland steamer to wash down the pepperoni

-- Anonymous, December 05, 2004

I saw saw the movie that just came out, and my wiener got hard, ezpecially over that cutie Begoas. I have recently renamed my memeber Begoas, after that sexy little Eunuch. look at my gape daddy

-- Anonymous, December 05, 2004

I just stumbled across this site on a Google search. I've never seen anyone so obsessed with a bunch of men dead for thousands of years (aside from Christ). Alexander was just another absolute tyrant in a long chain of oppressors in human history. His was a form of government we spent many centuries defeating. Even after the Enlightenment brought us out of the Dark Ages of feudalism, absolutism, and theocracy, we still had a showdown just last century with another world unifier wannabe -- Hitler, who executed 11 million people simply for who they were. And after that, the totalitarian evil empire of the Soviet Union, whom we finally vanquished just fifteen years ago. So quit this fascination with power. If power is what made Alexander "the Great", then power is evil.

-- Anonymous, August 14, 2004

Sexuality and Alexander

Alexander must have compared their relationship to that of Achilles and Patroklos. According to Plutarch, when they visited Troy, Alexander laid a wreath upon the tomb of Achilles, while Hephaestion did the same upon Patroklos'. This comparison is further credited by the king cutting his hair in honor of Hephaestion's death, just as Achilles had done for Patroklos. Mary Renault also mentions that Alexander did have a eunuch, named Bagoas, who was always cited as the kings "eromenos." This further indicates his sexual preference.

-- Anonymous, August 11, 2004

Of course Alexander and Hephaestion were lovers. No credible historian denies this. I think the only person wh was actually discribed as having a sexual relationship with Alexander was Bagoas. I am not sure who used the word but I remember reading it..maybe in Mary Renault's book "The Nature of Alexander"...eremenous. The spelling is incorrect.

-- Anonymous, August 11, 2004

Wow! that may just be the first rational and intelligent post made on this board, well actually second if i include my own post.

-- Anonymous, August 06, 2004

in all likely hood aleksander and hepaestion had some form of homosexual cotact. and in all likely hood were closer freinds than any of us will ever have (male or female). i find the debate somewhat silly... in ancient greece there where few morals to speak of (possibly why the society was so great- nothing holding them back) the gods were cruel, vindictive and seemed to 'hump' anything that moved. so if that is what the people had to look up to and saught guidence and favor wouldn't they immitate to flatter? they weren't gay,straight, or bi-sexual they just did whatever they wanted - whenever they wanted. aristotle was his tutor. aristotle has always been decribed as effeminate and we all know the 'privelages' mentors had access to in ancient greece. aleksander was extremely close to his mother (all too often a tell tail sign) and seemed to make no attempt at producing an aire and there are to many different accounts for the idea to be just propaganda. for gay men he may be their greatest hero ever but i doubt he would care much about them.... he only thought of one thing- conquest. and to the religious right, look at it this way- god punished him with an std that drove him crazy and killed him. everybody is right- and who cares.... the real question should be- if he had not killed his father would anyone care about alexader son of the great? alexs pop was the machine that swept through greece, formed the pan-hellenic league and drew up the battle plans and movements that alex edend up using to perfection. phillip was the one who taught alex to fight, ride, supervize, command, and politic. and what did he get in return... a short little man with no thanks or reguard who commishend a knife to his fathers belly so that he could steal his dreams. come on know that's the real issue to disscuss... as my neighbors son would say- "holla" and "get at me" (comments)

,

-- Anonymous, July 19, 2004

Uhhhhhh ... "Oleg" ... the Forum lists YOU as "Moderator"; do "moderators" intervene & "moderate" moderately when using hyperbolae such as "God's Messenger"???!!! Other than in Alexander's own mind, possibly, and as a good tactic to make his conquests easier, and in the self-serving motives of some of Alexander's sychophantic adherents and lieutenants, exactly what proof have you of Alexander's historic persona being considered, in dominant terms and impact, as that of a "Messenger of God"???!!! Did Alexander "hear voices" like Joan of Arc before his battles??? ... ha, ha! "Oleg", if you can't be moderate and "moderate" the forum moderately, perhaps you need to resign.

... Marco.

-- Anonymous, July 18, 2004

any one knows how are going to potrait alexander and hephaestión's relationship in Oliver stone's "Alexander"?

-- Anonymous, July 12, 2004

What a shame, a forum which could be very informative (which generally it is)an ideal base to exchange knowledge, learn and grow is peppered whith such childish and racial remarks. It really is scarry to read such remarks from the likes of Laura et al. totally inappropriate and to also see the amount of hatred that is inside this person one wonders what they are capable of and what influence they could have on others. These people need help! I am amazed that this sort of thing is not monitored my children could read this.

-- Anonymous, June 25, 2004

I'm curious as to what neolithic "social" group of troglodytes deemed you worthy of guru status?

-- Anonymous, May 30, 2004

There you go! Perfect example from QUEEN BRAINLESS hereself! (ie LOSER LAURA) My mother is dead. Leave her out of this. Have guts to adress me directly. You're as pathetic as your replies!

-- Anonymous, May 30, 2004

no they wherent!! they r just close freind who used to help each others throught they loved each others like best freinds not more than that!!

but maybe they had a period of time they used to play and stuff I guess when they where teens but after they grown up not more!!!

-- Anonymous, May 30, 2004

Maybe because your mom sux dog dicks!!!!!!!!!!!!!

-- Anonymous, May 29, 2004

Why is it when some people are trying to have an intelligent discussion on a public forum such as this, that IDIOTS feel the need to chime in with their worthless, infantile, and above all IGNORANT political rhetoric? ANSWER : INBREEDING!!!!!

-- Anonymous, May 25, 2004

Note to antagonising christians: Christ wasn't born yet, hence the "bc" in "Alexander died in 323 bc." Back then they practiced the more tolerance and "love for thy neighbor" than you're displaying. As for what sexual relations certain people had over 2000 years ago: who knows? Love transcends everything, even *gasp!* your religious beliefs that weren't even invented yet.

I can't resist: who died and made your religion the right one? May Zeus, Allah, Jesus, Buddah, Freud and George W. Bush strike you down for your hubris and impudence. Think for yourself, it may be painful at first, but you'll find it makes life infinitely more interesting.

-- Anonymous, May 20, 2004

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ If great Alexander had hetero id, Why did he leave behind only one kid? Because he shunned women, his mother and father Sent him a harlot, whom he didn't bother. Then there's the frank, unavoidable question: Why did he publicly dote on Hephaestion? Hephaestion was handsomer, taller, and grander. Alexander said, "He is also Alexander." His troops were aware of an alternate beau, as They begged him in public to kiss sweet Bagoas, Whom Curtius tells us was no mere bystander, But "loved by King Darius, then Alexander." Hephaestion's death drove him nearly to madness And neglect of an illness because of his sadness. To guarantee perished Hephaestion fame, He ordered all documents signed in his name, Gave him a funeral poets still laud, And furthermore begged priests to name him a god. You'd call a clerk gay who behaved in this manner, So why deny gayness to great Alexan'er? ***********************************************************

-- Anonymous, May 10, 2004

Faggots just need to be bashed and destroyed! Faggotism is merely a Jew front to destroy modern America as we know it. The nuclear family been under attack for decades. And the Jooz who have infultrated the media are behind it. Have you wondered why the American media doesn't show the suffering behind the invasion of Iraq? The Joo media doesn't want you to see it! Jooz are the most evil group of people to ever exist! Holocaust-2 is coming and Jooz will soon be merely a bad memory!!!!!!!!! Don't burn petroleum, burn Jooz!

-- Anonymous, April 28, 2004

I think they were and a bit more. Best friends certainly but lovers, who knows? The truth is only a deeply caring person would set up a funeral for a king for your friend even if the whole of your empire resists

-- Anonymous, March 10, 2004

You should check out this link http://www.isidore-of- seville.com/Alexanderama.html

-- Anonymous, March 05, 2004

to the person who said that if alexander and hephaestion were lovers, it was sick, wrong and all around perverted, maybe i should remind you that 1 out of 10 people in the united states are homosexual, and if you have a problem with it, and state it on the internet, you could offend ALOT of people! and for that matter, YOU are the one being sick and wrong, because YOU are being prejudiced! god. can you just not stand for other people to be happy if they can't be like you? GET A LIFE!!!!!! As for your question, I'm not totally sure if they were, and personally, i dont care. If they were, then thats great for them, and if they weren't, then that's nice for them too.

-- Anonymous, February 24, 2004

If he's straight, you'll know. Because there's nothing to hide, and he would have a dozen of children, with many girls/women.

If he's gay, you don't know, you'll sense ambiguous. Because he hide it. Even if the writers know, they don't report it in books.

A conquerer like any will have an active life. Active life leads to active sexual life. Sex with many women with no condoms back then, will give you tons of kids. No kid coming out for Alex, where are all his sex vanished?

Or perhaps he constantly inserted his seeds in places where no kids come out?

When one kid finally arrived, Alex went away to the other world to join soul with a "supposedly" good friend.

Aren't you join soul with your husband and wife only? Alex and Hephaestion sounds like a perfect couple you can ever get - best friends, having so much in commons, love and respect each other, admire one another, spend so much time with each other, fight and die for each other, wanted to be burried next to each other, when both became god and a hero, they will spend their after life entity with each other in heaven....

Now, what stop you from figuring out that they share the same bed.

-- Anonymous, January 22, 2004

get over it! "gay" didn't exist then, sexual pleasure was accepted regardless of the gender of the participants. their society was different than ours; not better or worse just different. jeez I'm ill just reading this nonsensical tripe about Alex's sexuality. He was a sexual being (like us all) and whatever he did had its consequences then, according to the mores of the day. We can add nothing to it. Braying that "Alexander wasn't a fag!!" is meaningless except as it exposes your own pathetic prejudice.

-- Anonymous, January 17, 2004

Alexander the Great and Hephaestion being lovers actually is none of our business people, sexual preference doesnt matter. We can never deny the bare truth that Alexander the Great was proven to be one of the military geniouses and brilliant leaders of his era, so being a gay does not make them lesser persons, so let us put this argument to rest.

-- Anonymous, January 14, 2004

I would just like to reply to all those who said that their relationship wasnt important. As another writer stated, it is very important. Being a gay youth myself, and often being told that I will amount to nothing more than an abomination because of it, it is Great inspiration and motivation to know that one as GREAT as Alexander III was just like me. And to those who call him sick or twisted or whatever else for being gay. GROW UP! The relationship that him and Hephaestion shared was as beutifal as Alexander himself. And I, and all of you, can only hope to one day be half the man he was... Many state that he couldnt have been gay for then he wouldnt have been as great as he was. I hope to one day prove every one of them wrong, with the help of Alexander.

-- Anonymous, November 27, 2003

My god where have you people been. (Some of you!) Of course they were lovers. Not only was Hephaestion's funeral pyre the largest seen in the world to that date, but he was deified at Alexander's orders, singing and dancing were forbidden for a year of mourning, and beards were ordered shaved. This was not his only male to male activity. He took in Begoas, the famous Persian Boy who belonged to Darius and many accounts tell of his reference to Begoas' body as "sweet beyond the sweetest wine and smoother than the most lovely girl." Begoas out lived themn both and became a historian and writer at court. Read your history in places other than high school books. TS, B.A., M.F.A, Eastern European History, Asian History

-- Anonymous, November 17, 2003

History is more or less silent unless one reads between the lines. Alexander & Hephaestion lived some 2300 years ago and did not leave a diary of their activites, sexual or otherwise. Remember too, that so-called Christian morality had yet to appear on the scene, so whatever the two manly men did in the privacy of their tents or palaces would have been judged far differently than it would be now.

-- Anonymous, November 14, 2003

Thanks for sharing that with us - Cat. That made me laugh! I personally believe that Alexander and Hephaestion were very close friends as defined in those days...which is not the same as friends today...so who knows what they did in private? As for people who believe Alexander was busy conquering beautiful women as well, I would have to disagree as the facts point to the fact that he didn't have many children and it didn't even happen until he married Roxanne. Then it happened relatively quickly so the impotence theory may not hold unless Roxanne's child wasn't his. He might have had a very low libido and simply wasn't interested in sex with so many other interesting things to do too. Unlike the ordinary person, I don't think Alexander had to worry about being a loser just because he wasn't getting laid : ) When one reads about how Alexander behaved when Hephaestion died...one has to think that this man must have meant a great deal to Alexander. Just regular friends? I don't think so.

-- Anonymous, November 12, 2003

There is no way to tell whether or not Alexander and Hephaistion were lovers...I mean, there are texts that say (this is one of my favorites) Alexander was conquered only by Hephaistion's thighs (from a group of greek philosophers, I believe...), which may or may not be credible. We do know, however, that they were about as close of comrades as two could possibly get. One could even be so bold as to call them "soulmates". Whether or not their relationship was sexual, we have no way of knowing at present, but it is not out of the question, considering their love and devotion to one another.

Being the exuberent fan (or rabid fangirl, depending on opinions) of Alexander that I am, I would like to think that he and Hephaistion had a sweet, romantic relationship with one another, but those are only my fangirlish hopes, and not the bare facts.

-- Anonymous, October 29, 2003

Id just like to say to those of you who say that it is irrelevant whether or not Alexander and Hephaestion were lovers, that of course it is relevant! in todays society where there is still so much prejudice towards homosexuals and those who display deviant sexual behaviour from the norms of their society. Young homosexuals who can be ashamed of their sexuality need to be shown that yes they are different from most other people but that doesnt mean they cant be just as great, and knowing that Alexander was or may have been gay, can help them to understand this. Well thats all, Peace

-- Anonymous, October 24, 2003

im just goign to say this. There is a lot more evidence to suggest that Hephaestion and Alexander were more than just lovers. They were everything together. Thus resulting after Hephaestion died, Alexander followed him to the Elysian Fields [Greek Heaven]. Also the fact that Alexander's intent to be barried was in Siwa, the place where Hephaestion was supposely barried and was deified.

I am actualy in the mists of finding research and writing a book about the relationship of Hephaestion and Alexander. I beleive that Hephaestion was actualy the influence on Alexander, as in a influence of a Queen on a King, though Hephaestion being the King. If you have any comments, I welcome it, but if you are just going to write an insulting comment, then dont bother cause I really do not care. So you might as well save your Oppertunity Costs.

-- Anonymous, October 19, 2003

A good text to read is Dover's work on homosexuality in ancient Greece. Though Makedon was not Greece, Philip II, Alexander's father, did see Athens as a center of a type of culture he wanted to emulate, or at least be seen as equal to. Philip was known for his affairs with both men and women; Alexander was affronted more by pedastery than homosexuality- he had seen the effects of the pedarastic system on others- but that does not preclude his having a relationship with a peer, despite the protestations of those today who have their own issues with sexuality. In the modern world we put labels on behaviours, and that forces us to define them in narrow terms, but these labels did not exist when Alexander lived.. and the bounds of human sexual conduct were far less narrow than today. Our terms and attitudes may be narrow, but human sexuality is not- again, the sexual continuum is far more fluid than most understand. It is important that people do not confuse modern sexual perspectives with the ancient world. The ancient world, in many areas and regions, had a much more fluid view of sexuality, for the most part. The concept of homosexuality existed, but NOT as we see it today (the term homosexual did not even come into existence until the 1800's)- the Bible had not spread to every corner(with its hundreds of permutations of interpretation) and the Jewish tenets were not known much outside of their own lands, as they were a nomadic, tribal people. Even today, the sexual continuum is more fluid then most like to think, which is why we make so many laws to control sexual behaviours- because they *are* fluid. And every nation has its own attitudes and beliefs about what is or is not appropriate. It is very likely there was a physical relationship between Alexander and Hephaestion but that relationship did not define the entirety of their relationship- it was a small part, and thus should be fairly irrelevant (being private behaviour between consenting adults) when discussing whether ALexander's achievements and life had value.

-- Anonymous, August 21, 2003

"Alexander the Great and Hephaestion were lovers. Ancient Greek culture promoted the attainment of a beautiful spirit and emphasized male beauty."

But, Alexander was raised in Macedonia. In fact he identified more with the Macedonians he just wanted unity between the Macedonians and foreigners.

I also think it is possible to have a "deep" and "intimate" love between two people without sexual attraction being a factor.

The answer to the original question is: No one knows for sure but everyone has an opinion.

-- Anonymous, August 19, 2003

I think perhaps Alexander could not identify with any women,so he found that only Hephaestion was the person who could understand him.

-- Anonymous, June 13, 2003

To the last reply, I must disagree with your statement in context to Alexander being titled the "great", where it was stated he was the "sick". The phrase itself is in accordance with his empire spanning one fourth of the known world, and of a leader who had never lost a battle in his lifetime, so it can be said that while you may not agree with his personal ambitions so to speak, you cannot deny the brilliance of his leadership and positive effect of those around him.

-- Anonymous, June 12, 2003

Alexander was a fag and therefore was an abomination. You sickos who refer to his relationship as 'beautiful' etc, are mentally disfunctional. They were males, 'mating' with each other! Sick freak, not 'Great'.

-- Anonymous, June 06, 2003

People were loser with sexuality back then, and there is strong evidence pointing toward yes, they were.

but like people said before. Who cares?

If they had fun, more power to them.

-- Anonymous, June 05, 2003

They are! And their relationship is one of open-mindedness, purity, and romance!

-- Anonymous, May 05, 2003

Since nothing is mentioned about sexuality in their relationship, why the concern? Heterosexuals will maintain that theirs is a platonic and spiritual relationship. Actually, their relationship is based upon Achilles and his first cousin's relationship, Patroclus. Alexander wanted to be just like Achilles it seems and Hephaestion fit the role as Patroclus. This went so far as even building a special funeral pyre. Whether sexual or not, the relationships are intriguing and will probably elicit responses from those who want them to have been whatever the reader or historian is most likely to be comfortable with. I opt for what difference does it make.

-- Anonymous, April 26, 2003

Im sort of with you, Narcissus.

-- Anonymous, March 17, 2003

If you someone who really loves, respects and understands Alexander, you will know the answer! If you are not his friend, believe what you want. There are lots of slanderous stories about Alexander out there and if his great personality belittles you somewhat, you may choose to believe that he was actually after sex, drinks, drugs etc etc.

He was a messenger of God and so let's stop this discussion! It's blasphemous and ridiculous to talk about such things. It doesn't matter!!!

-- Anonymous, March 11, 2003

It is perhaps likely that Alexander and Hephaestion had a sexual relationship, but of more importance is the close spiritual and compaionble lik between them. Remember, the changes that civilisations have undergone since those times are so great that our ve of relatioshis ave been altered almost entirely. It s perfectly plausible that the two men were friends on an almost brotherly level, with no homosexuality between them n the least, although they may have preferred the 'comanionship' of other men whilst apart. Having read a great deal about the two men and the times under which they lived, I must admit that the likelyhood of their having been lovers or merelygreat friends is entirely equal. Perhaps both were bisexual, indeed this was often occurent in Grecian times, but as to whether Alexander and Hephaestion ever crossed the boundaries as it were is a subject that we can only speculate about so many hundeds of years on. Responses welcome, does my view of this correspond with anyone else's?

-- Anonymous, March 05, 2003

I would just like to say that A;lexander was Great. It doesnt matter what kind of relationship he had with Hephaestion, we know they loved eachother very much. its none of our buisness if they did or didnt play with eachother every once in a while. GROW UP!

-- Anonymous, March 04, 2003

Alexander the Great and Hephaestion were lovers. Ancient Greek culture promoted the attainment of a beautiful spirit and emphasized male beauty. Ancient Greeks believed the more beautiful one was on the outside the more beautiful their spirit was. The male body was to the Greeks the ultimate example of perfect beauty (especially a nice male body, ie. the tighter the buns, the harder the pecs the better). Greek males believed they could attain spiritual beauty through love with youths (also males). The tradition of Greek male youths was to find an older male lover and to love and be loved by them for the betterment of their spirit. However, a proper Greek male was definitely still expected to have a wife and children and usually stop being with their male love after this, although still recognizing him as a special person in his life through the dedication of any works made to that person. This is why Alexander still took a wife and treated her very well- although greek women, except in special cases such as recognized writers, painters, etc..., weren't deemed important and would basically spend all their time together. Rarely, a greek male would stay with his lover after marriage and it was thought strange to do so at those times, but not condemned and not derided. In Alexander's case he was a bisexual and therfore stayed with his lover and still kept his wife (which was mandatory anyway) and it was not thought of as a negative thing. Although he was bisexual he was definitely not considered "effeminite." Alexander was a big strong and very handsome man and his love Hephaestion was said to be even bigger stronger and more handsome. Alexander stayed with Hephaestion till very late in life and even took him on his conquests. Once Hephaestion was even confused for Alexander on one of the conquests. Alexander didn't care and responded after an apology, "Do not be sorry...Hephaestion is Alexander." This saying actually symbolized a very deep and intimate love. When Hephastion became sick on travels with Alexander, Alexander was very worried and stayed at his side at all times, and through everything. When Hephaestion died Alexander was devastated. It was the end of hapiness in his life. His demeanor and apperance changed drastically and despite all of his conquests afterward he died a miserable man. Alexander's and Hephastion's relationship was definitely not purely platonic, brotherly, or just a friendship. It was an intimate, sexual, and loving relationship. A true love between two males surpassing the expectations of Greek society at the time.

-- Anonymous, February 20, 2003

What r u talking about. Pour quoi francais?

-- Anonymous, February 18, 2003

La relación que unió a Hefestión y Alejandro no tuvo nada de platónica, de lo contrario, Aristóteles, Olimpia, Cráteros, Bagoas-el eunuco-, Róxana,etc no hubieran estado tan celosos y él (Hefestión) no hubiera tenido tantos enemigos (Por ejemplo, son muy conocidas sus peleas con crateros y con Eumenes, véase Plutarco y Quinto Curcio). Opino, al igual que Mary Renault y otros autores, que mantuvieron relaciones de pareja durante unos cuantos años.

-- Anonymous, November 08, 2002

The relationship between Alexander the Great and Hephaestion was purely Platonic. The position he held in Alexander's life should be described as a secondself. In the histories Alexander is recorded as not only treating women with honor and respect, but also men and boys. Alexander was offered a "beautiful youth" and "two boy" who he is recorded as angrily refusing. This is not only consistent with his unification policies on empire but also his character.

-- Anonymous, June 23, 2002

Alexander and Hephestion shared both a comrade like and sexual relationship

-- Anonymous, June 15, 2002

"Where they lovers?" Mostly in private, like decent folk.

-- Anonymous, April 14, 2002

They loved each other as brothers...

-- Anonymous, February 21, 2002