Another reason not to like the Chinese govt, or are you ready to die for your faith?greenspun.com : LUSENET : Freedom! self reliance : One Thread
Lovely. Please get your church praying for this man. I know similar things happen nearly daily in China, but this is a bit of a landmark as there is the "evil cult" distinction being made for simply supplying bibles.
China court indicts Hong Kong trader for imported Bibles
HONG KONG (Reuters) - A court in China's Fujian province has issued an "evil cult" indictment to a Hong Kong businessman for transporting Bibles into China and may hand him a death sentence, a Hong Kong rights group said on Saturday.
The court in the city of Fu Qing said Hong Kong trader Li Guangqiang had "used an evil cult to damage a law-based society", the Information Center for Human Rights and Democracy said in a statement.
Li Guangqiang in April and May 2000 took 33,000 bibles in two lots into China's Fujian Province to supply an underground Christian group called the Shouter's sect, the group said. He was arrested on his second trip.
Li, 38, is a long term resident of Hong Kong. He was responding to a request in October 2000 by a leader of the sect, Yu Zhudi, who travelled to Hong Kong and said the group needed bibles.
On December 30, a Chinese court in Hubei's Jingmen city gave the founders of the underground South China Church, Gong Shengliang and Li Ying, a death sentence, calling their group an evil cult.
Because Li's indictment mentioned an "evil cult" he may be sentenced to death, the rights group said.
The group said it called on the Hong Kong government to support Li and demand that China specify the definition of "evil cult".
It said that although China had never made public how many such groups there were, the rights group estimated at least 16 Christian organisations had been listed that way.
-- Doreen (firstname.lastname@example.org), January 05, 2002
I have always found it interesting to hear evil people call others evil. No one in their right mind would call the Chinese government anything but evil.
This type of Christian abuse is going on world wide, mostly in Moslem countries, such as Chad, Egypt, Indonesia, and the whole Middle East to varying degrees. Slavery and torture of Christians in Chad is especially bad. No one seems to care, it just goes on and on.
I was very unhappy to have Bush sign the most favored trade status bill with China into law. Economic punishment does not always work, just look at Iraq and Cuba, but it may help to get our point across to the Chinese government. Time will tell. It is nearly imposssible to go to almost any store and buy something that is NOT made in China. I for one, if I can, choose something made in America over the Chinese product.
Cult to some people means something you don't agree with or understand. I agree there are really some cults out there, but basic Christianity is no one of them.
If these "cult" members are executed, they will be sent to a much better place for doing the work of the Lord. God bless them all.
Talk to you later.
-- Bob in WI (email@example.com), January 05, 2002.
I am simply disgusted that we continue tto send our jobs and our money to China. For some reason most people don't realize that the vast majority off the money just increases the military and is built on slave labor and organ harvesting. Don't even get me started....
VOM is really an amazing ministry. Every church in America should get their magazine. We are so sheltered here.
-- Doreen (firstname.lastname@example.org), January 05, 2002.
I've been a subscriber to Voice of the Martyrs for years and the imprisonment and murder of Christians in China has been going on since the "cultural revolution."
Red China, taking their cue from US, decided the "dangerous cult" label would legitimize their crimes against humanity in the eyes of US politians. After all, Clinton and Reno got away with it. China laid off the Christian home churches for a little while and pursued Falung Gong, a Bhudist type "cult," then came after the Christians again.
The fact is, there are several Moslem countries where you may not buy or sell if you are a Christian. Churches are burned, Christians are murderd and enslaved. Many countries Christianity is illegal.
It only takes reading one copy of Voice of the Martyrs to see that Christians are NOT going to get raptured out before it gets tough. Millions have died for their faith in recent history and milions more will also before it is over.
-- Laura (LadybugWrangler@hotmail.com), January 05, 2002.
Sadly, what you say is so true. Unfortunately nothing is being done by anybody to change the situation. It is bad in many places around the world.
I have a couple of friends who are missionaries in Chad.(Before they left I jokingly asked them if the had a death wish.) A place where anybody and I mean ANTBODY living the US would be rich and secure by comparison. The torture, slavery, rape, looting, burning of Christians goes on seemingly forever. God help them all. (And He will, they are his people.)
Talk to you later.
-- Bob in WI (email@example.com), January 06, 2002.
What China is doing is wrong, no two ways about it. Why is China doing this? Simple, for the same reason they cracked down on the Falun Gong movement a few years ago:
Whenever religious movements take place, people tend to gather together and organize, and when people organize, they start to realize their own potential and consequently start getting ideas into their heads. The Chinese government sees organized movements other than the ones THEY start to be threats, and treat them as such. Morality is not an issue as far as the Chinese Govt. is concerned. In their view, ANY potential threats to their power, regardless of intent, are to be squashed. As for American companies opening plants and making dealings with China, I believe they are dealing with the Devil (figuratively speaking). They are playing a dangerous game. The Chinese have been practicing the art of intrigue back when we White (mostly) Boys and girls were barely setting foot outside our caves. Do those greedy fools honestly think that they can outfox the ones that invented the game of intrigue and manipulation? Actually, I'd almost bet you money that, when the time comes for China to make her move, all of the Americans companies' Chinese holdings can be seized within 72 hours.
-- Nexar (Arax7@mvn.net), January 06, 2002.
Bob, I admire the courage and fortitude of anyone doing missions in Chad. That takes strength beyond what I could ever imagine having for myself. I will add missionaries in Chad to my prayer list.
-- Laura (LadybugWrangler@hotmail.com), January 07, 2002.
Have you tried to give testimony here in America as a Christian lately. It would be only 100 times worse in other countrys. We are the growing minorty. Ask your self why was every religion tolerated but christianity. It taught that ceaser was not God. But remember the first christians were under ground because if they came above ground they would have been put on a cross. No different today the Axing is in a different form. We know were the most hated.
-- John Stergios (Jackstergios@aol.com), January 12, 2002.
Answer me this then. If Christianity is so hated and not tolerated in this country like some of you claim, why is it then that no matter where I go in this country, I see a church on practically every corner?
-- Nexar (Arax7@mvn.net), January 14, 2002.
Nexar, I think we are talking about other countries here. In America, the thing that IS happening is that those who hold to the doctrine of the Bible as being the inerrant Word of God are being attacked as being: intolerant, unloving, hateful, bigoted, arrogant, etc. This is just going to get worse as the bible says, but we aren't yet physically endangered here. The thing is, this country was founded on Biblical principles and it is our heritage whether folks like it or not. Which is why you see churches all over, although the every corner thing is a gross exaggeration;). All of our freedoms are only to be enjoyed by a moral and upright nation, if we lose our awareness of God (capital G) we lose our freedom. This is kind of a whole 'nuther subject and one that would be sure to be a rather rough topic, but I hope I answered your query to a degree.
-- Doreen (firstname.lastname@example.org), January 15, 2002.
What if I told you that I believe the Bible to be inerrant, but have arrived at some slightly different conclusions from it?
Contrary to what some might think, I believe that there WERE mistakes in the translation of the various books of the Bible, but those mistakes can easily be clarified. Some can say that God guided their pens, but then again, any old fool can say that. Just because someone claims to have God guiding his hand during the translation process doesn't automatically mean that it is so.
Enough of that though, my point is that I don't really have a problem with people believing the Bible to be inerrant. I DO have a problem however, with people calling me (or anyone else) a "Moral Relativist" or a "Follower of Satan" simply because I cannot bring myself to agree with some of their views.
You want to find the REAL followers of Satan? Then quit sticking labels on people and observe how people treat each other. The people that treat their fellow human beings and the rest of God's creation with contempt are the ones to watch for, and they are not that hard to find if one is vigilant. Heck, look no further than the folks involved in the Enron scandal.....
-- Nexar (Arax7@mvn.net), January 15, 2002.