Hi everyone! A friend of mine is looking a 48 acres of land. Of that 1/2 has been clearcut. The remaining half is divided pretty equally between pasture and woods. It also has a 2 acre lake on it. How long does it take clearcut land to grow back. Im not sure, but I think he said that it had been replanted with 1 yr pine. How much does this effect the value of the land? He is just wanting to homestead the land nothing commercialized. Thanks for your input. Lisa B.

-- Lisa B. (j5diecast@aol.com), January 10, 2002

Answers

Trouble with clearcut land are things like erosion, and it is just plain ugly to look at. It will not be nice to look at for years. Of course if you are looking to harvest that timber in the future, then looks might not be an issue. You can always plant other trees in between for some variety, but then it might reduce the value if you are trying to sell it later with "marketable timber".

-- GT (nospam@nospam.com), January 10, 2002.

We have ten acres of scotch pines and the lumberjacks told us all they are good for is a wind break. When we first bought the place five years ago they were about seven to eight feet tall, now they are fifteen to twenty five feet. They will grow about a foot or more a year depending on the weather and soil conditions. We have sandy soil and are surrounded by swamp up in northern michigan. As to the value of the land it depends on too many factors, like how far from town are you what else grows around you and most of all what kind of pines are they? Hope this helps somewhat.

From the Pines

-- ron bulinda (rvbulinda@yahoo.com), January 10, 2002.

Around here, clear cut land goes for really cheap, under 1000 an acre. But if you plant wild black cherry and locust, which are valuable hardwoods as well, they will give you a 20 foot tree in under 10 years, and provide needed wild life habitat and food as well as restoring the forest.

Since only half of the property has been clear cut, he should ba able to still use most of it and get it at a great price to boot!!!

-- Annie Miller in SE OH (annie@1st.net), January 10, 2002.

One thing about this situation, your friend has a chance to watch the land change as it grows back. Both mature and growing woods have value, so don't dismiss this property because it isn't "perfect" right now. It's very satisfying to watch young trees take hold and really get growing over time. There's a lot of enjoyment in that as you see the place mature once again.

-- Jennifer L. (Northern NYS) (jlance@nospammail.com), January 10, 2002.

What state are you in and what kind of pine has been planted. In Texas, where I am delighted to be _from_, a huge amount of genetically engineered pines are planted. They grow very fast and can be harvested by the timber companies in only 10 years instead of the more normal 20. These pines are VERY aggressive - they have plentiful seeds and those seeds sprout and will take over neighboring land in a very short time if you don't mow them flat as soon as they pop up.

We are thinking about buying clear cut land also. Yes, it really looks bad. But if ground covers, native grasses, berrys and food producing trees are planted, it benefits the entire area. And in a few years the native grasses will get high enough to hide the debris left by the clear cutting. Do the world a favor and reclaim clear cut land. And make durn sure the timber companies don't have the right to come back in years later and clear cut it all over again.

-- Carol - in Virginia (carollm@rockbridge.net), January 10, 2002.

Pines can grow fairly quickly especially if you're in the south. If the cut was done with due care, erosion should be minimal, far less than any ag field in your neighborhood. For whatever reason, there seems to be a higher standard applied to forestry practices. At any rate, it will be interesting to watch natural succession proceed on the site. You'll go from a large variety of early successional species that are shade intolerant early on, as the pines begin to get up in size they will start to shade out these plants and will eventually reach "crown closure". At this point if not sooner, you'll want to thin your pine trees so each has optimal growing space to expand into. More shade tolerant species will then start to grow underneath the pine trees and you'll start to have a whole new ecosystem under there. As the pines reach maturity, keep in mind that they are all one age. Harvesting them at maturity would entail another clearcut and replanting effort. Pines are not tolerant of shade and will not do well by selective harvest. It's just how they are adapted. Clearcutting is tool like any other. You'll get certain results when using it. The desired results are full sunlight to the new trees. It doesn't look pretty, but that's what ya gotta do to have a forest of shade intolerants such as pine.

-- Susan (smtroxel@socket.net), January 10, 2002.

Clearcut land is one of the lower rankings of land value, for assessment purposes. It usually ranks right along with reclaimed strip mined land in value. The fact that it has been planted in pine trees helps some, but does little to increase the value of the land, right now.

Pine trees run all over the board for the time needed to get them to market. It depends on what kind of pine trees, where you are (does it rain a lot or a little?) and so on.

Generally speaking consider the replanted land to be on the lower side of the scale, value wise. If you want to homestead there, why not? There are a lot worse neighbors than 24 acres of pine trees.

-- Ed Copp (OH) (edcopp@yahoo.com), January 10, 2002.

"How long does it take clearcut land to grow back?" Well it depends on where this property is located. If it's in FL/GA maybe five or ten years; OR/WA/ID/MT about twenty-forty years. For every tree cut by loggers ten seedlings are planted. Of those ten maybe one or two will survive to become a tree. At present clearcut land is pretty much without any value. It's the trees that are worth dollars. You'd need to cut down some trees inorder to build a house, but not many and certainly not 24-acres worth.

-- matt johnson (wyo_cowboy_us@yahoo.com), January 10, 2002.

In 1995, a yr and a half after we moved from western NY to VA we purchased a farm in south central VA. It wa sperfect, 35 acres, miles of dirt roads, beautiful trees surrounding the dirt road and looked like a covered forest driving down. The land had been contracted for clear cutting so we knew this buying it, we paid 18,000 for it. The loggers were gentle and didn't destroy much of the land. It took about 4 yrs for it to grow back, the brush and sold the farm in May after the neighboring property owners sold to a logging company and did clear cutting, it wa sa horrid mess! I tried to buy the acreage after but was given the price of 1,000 an acre for a war zone! So we then heard that it was being sold for development to a developer in Fla. YIKKS! so w elisted and sold and moved to AR. We sold that farm for over 1,000 an acre, not bad, but hey, I still am amazed it sold that fast. And when i wa shome in November i learned if i held out, I could have gotten 1500 an acre. hmmmmmm... wonder whats so great about those boonies there? But most likely because of the mess it woulds seem the value would go down. Good luck. it can be a good investment.

-- Bernice (geminigoats@yahoo.com), January 10, 2002.

Lisa, like others have stated or asked, the location of the land, and the type of pines will determine how fast they will grow. To answer your question more completely; how long will it take to grow back?-It all depends on what stage of forest your friends are trying to develope, and what the potential of the forest site is. Pines are one of the better things to be put into a clearcut, since they are the natural regenerators in natural disturbances like fires. Also because the branches of pines tend to allow light down to the ground, there is a good growing environment for other trees, shrubs, and small plants. Pines around here grow fast for the first 40 to 60 years, and then slow down for the last 100-250 years, at which point they are over-mature, and may get infested by beatles, depending on the species, they die from a fungus that enters via the beattles, and then they burn in a forest fire, (if they are allowed) Pine seeds natually are released in fire situations, thus renewing the cycle. However, if in the future, your friends interplant other trees in the forest, they can create a multi-storied ecosystem faster, and diversity is everything in the forest. Pines are one of the fastest growing conifers on the planet. Big companies plant them in clearcuts, because the second harvest is quicker-the bottom line is quick money. I hope the forest company doesn't have a future claim on the trees. If they are selling the land, then they probably planted the cheapest seedlings they could get. They legally have to replant after they cut, in the U.S., so they probably planted the lowest priced seedlings they could find, if they are selling the land. Find out if they are mutant hybrids. If so, since it's so young anyway, you might want to mow it flat and start over with a more natural crop, or just let nature do it. I know that sounds cruel, but having geneticly engineered super-pines on this continent is in nobody's interest. Also Nature is an amazing healer, I've grown up in Clear-Cut central, and I've seen Her regenerate some nasty stuff. My town was labled forestry capital of B.C. last year. It was kind of a joke with anybody who had their eyes open, as the mill was on the brink of shutting down (and now is), because it over-extended itself. How bad of a job did the forest company do? 24 acres of land that's been shreaded up by a grappleyarder is not a pretty ecological picture. As stated earlier elsewhere, Erosion is a major concern. Siltation from the clear-cut's run-off could fill your little lake. What is the grade of the clearcut area? Was there ANY trees left standing? In my studies of forests, forestry, and re-habilitation, It is a requirement of healthy forests to have a multi-story effect. In a post forest fire scene, the snags provide the canopy level that is missing in many clear-cuts. The canopy level is the place where predatory insects live (these upper canopy insects are the guys that will kill some, but not all of the bugs that could infest your friends pines) Create a multi-story effect a soon a possible, by planting fast growing deciduous (leafy) trees. Around here, red alder would be the tree of choice. Alder has the additional benefit of providing nitrogen, something that the pines don't need a lot of but will appreciate. Like in a garden, one of the primary needs of a forest is water. If the site was groomed before planting, then there is not much left to hold water. If there is a lot of debris, particulary rotten wood, that is a good thing, since it holds water like a sponge. A clearcut is a shattered landscape; meaning that it no longer deals with rain correctly. Water leaks through the cracks, and ruts, and it leaches the nutrients into the subsoil, and water table. Getting a ground cover in place will do a lot for the forest. If your friend can't get a hold of a natural ground cover for the area, then go with a clover, rye, type combo that will get a good root structure down and provide nitrogen. Plant berries, and nuts- this will bring birds, and small mammals into the scene, which will in turn bring more seeds (through droppings) and predators. Then you will begin to a have a forest, instead of a mono-crop plantation. If your friend is just wanting to homestead, it is still in his interest to create a forest out of the mono-crop. A tended forest can provide more food, than any garden. Planting a variety of fruit, nuts, is the surest way to provide vitamines, and protein for a hometeader. The value? Value is up to a person to decide; like wealth- they are things that we can not let outsiders decide for us. Is your friend concerned about a monetary value of his land. I don't know how much your friend paid for it but 48 acres with a lake on it, sounds pretty nice to me, just a lot of work. It's be a real commitment. Best of luck to who-ever your friend is, he/she could probably use your help. Two more final things. Firstly, if your friend is interested in building forests, I would suggest purchasing, or borrowing "Seeing the Forest Through the Trees", it is about wholistic forest management. Second, If the local forestry company is still operating in the area, your friend may be able to get forest plants from areas that are about to have roads built on them, as these areas will be completely deforested, and covered by rock matterial. There is opportunity there for the would be forest builder. Take care.

-- roberto pokachinni (pokachinni@yahoo.com), January 11, 2002.