What do you add to your compost pile?

greenspun.com : LUSENET : Countryside : One Thread

I finally got started on my compost pile! I started with layers of old hay and old cow patties. What else should I throw in? How often should I turn it and when do you add more 'stuff'? I will wait 3 weeks and start another pile. I would like to have 4 or 5 piles going at different degrees of readiness. Do you cover yours, If so why? We are out in the country, the pile is 1000 yds. from any building/house. It's at the end of one of our fields close to the cow pasture. The 'orchard' is about 500 ft. away.

Right now, I have all the old hay and manure that any one could ever use! :) In the spring/summer I will have all the garden clippings and scarps that I can use. Sure wish I had chickens to help! Do you add corn cobs? Thanks for any help.

-- Debbie T in N.C. (rdtyner@mindspring.com), January 11, 2002

Answers

Debbie, yes I throw corn cobs in. I also throw fish parts in but no animal meat or cat,dog droppings. I also do not throw in citrus.Also no grease. I do add leaves,weeds and any farm animal manure available. Yes cover to keep nutrients from washing away in rain but we do keep the compost pile damp (I learned years ago that when dry nothing happens)

-- george (bngcrview@aol.com), January 11, 2002.

Debbie, I do let the chickens help me also. I have compost piles around the yard each close to a garden. I throw stuff into the chicken pen and they scratch and scratch through the stuff until it is broken down in no time. The chickens give me the best compost of all.

-- george (bngcrview@aol.com), January 11, 2002.

might be better to ask,,what DONT I add to the pile,, but I let the chickens go thru everything first,, then add it to the pile

-- Stan (sopal@net-port.com), January 11, 2002.

Very true that the question is what NOT to put in. Here are a couple of web pages to look at that will help you with what to put in or not.

http://www.mastercomposter.com/ref/orgmat1.html

http://www.cfe.cornell.edu/compost/OnFarmHandbook/apa.taba1.html

If you are trying to hot compost as opposed to cold composting (everything eventually rots, which is cold composting. Hot composting gets it there in a half to a third of the time, and kills pathogens in questionable materials) you will want to turn the pile when it gets good and hot (like around 150 F). A compost thermometer will help with that, or you can do like a lot of the rest of us and wing it when it seems right.

I personally try to have a pile going at all times and adding to it. What goes in is seasonal -- lawn clippings, shredded leaves, straw, hay, horse manure, guinea pig and rabbit litter, shredded paper, cardboard, cardboard egg cartons, egg shells, vegetable trimmings, crab shells, coffee grounds,any undiseased garden refuse (tomato vines, zucchini plants, etc), shredded pine needles, spoiled vegetables, hoof trimmings, leftover pet food, halloween jack-o- lanterns, old jam, and so on.

I cover mine most times(top only) as we get a lot of rain, and once I've achieved optimum moisture in the pile, I don't want the nutrients washing away (I use a few old plastic bags). Same thing for the winter, altho I will usually lay a few flakes of old spoiled hay or straw over the top to keep the heat in as long as possible and bacterial action going into winter. In North Carolina that shouldn't be a major problem. I have a row of bins going. The left-most bin is for new stuff. When it gets full, I turn it all over into the bin to the right of it (I'm right handed, so I work in that direction), and fill up the left-most again. When #1 bin is filled again, I turn #2 bin into #3 (to the right of that) and what is in #1 into #2, and start filling up #1 again. By the time I have done this 4 times, what is in #4 is ready to use. What works for me.

-- julie f. (rumplefrogskin@excite.com), January 11, 2002.


George If you don't mind my asking, why don't you add citrus?

Just curious, me.

-- Michaela (flhomestead@hotmail.com), January 11, 2002.



Michaela, I wish I could answer you with a good answer but I can't other than years ago when I fist started a compost pile I read somewhere (I wish I could remember where) that you should not throw in citrus and I believe it said because of the acid. I have even taken out citrus peelings that company has thrown in.

-- george (bngcrview@aol.com), January 11, 2002.

I add everything to my compost except meat, and human, cat, and dog droppings. I add hair and matted wool from my angora rabbits, sheddings from cats, dogs, horses and llamas. Never heard the citrus thing before, acid isn't bad in the compost. I guess it depends on what your soil is like and where youu will put it. If you turn the pile every other day it will break down and you will have compost in about two weeks (hot compost?). I do not cover mine, never have. I have never had any problem with critters getting into it other than chickens and my dogs sometimes. Here the pile freezes solid in the winter and doesn't thawout until about June. My potatoes sometimes sprout and I suppose would grow if I let them.

-- Susan from Northern MN (nanaboo@paulbunyan.net), January 11, 2002.

I didn't read it after all.I just remeber where I heard the citrus thing. I heard it from the lady who had the very first compost pile I ever saw. That was in Ormond Beach Florida and that was 13 years ago. And to think she gave me the impression that she was never wrong. So, it is o.k. to add citrus. I think i'll call her and tell her she was wrong? I used to work for her and I have wanted to inform her for years that her way is not always the right way.She sure is a smart person though so I think I should let this slip. O.K. Michaela I'm going to start adding citrus.But I'm still going to tell company not to because sometime they bring pets and I really don't want some of them left behind in my compost which they will do if they know I was wrong about citrus :-)

-- george (bngcrview@aol.com), January 11, 2002.

Start with any carbon based material, then add nitrogen( Horse, cow,chicken,etc) at a rate of 30 parts carbon to 1 part N. Make sure the pile gets enough air, I do this by sticking 3 or 4 pieces of 4" plastic drain pipe in the pile . Make sure you have plenty of holes in the pipe. Then just sit back and let it cook. I don't cover it but I do put it in the back of the yard under some trees so it gets moisture but not too much.

-- Paul (treewizard@buffalo.com), January 11, 2002.

I saw something in a Real Goods catalog at one time that was a worm composter for cat/dog droppings. You couldn't throw anything else in, because once the worms got acclimated, they couldn't tolerate other stuff well. Don't know if they still carry it or how well it works.

-- GT (nospam@nospam.com), January 11, 2002.


Why is it not good to put dog droppings on the compost pile????

-- Gary from Mn (hpysheep@midwestinfo.com), January 12, 2002.

Reasons not to compost dog manure (at least NOT in anything that you ever intend to grow a food crop in) are communicable zoonosis;

Ancyclostoma, Anthrax, Bergeyella (Weeksella) zoohelcum , Blastomycosis , Bordatella, Brucellosis, Campylobacter, Capnocytophaga canimorsus, CDC Group EF-4a, CDC Group EF-4b, CDC Group NO-1, Cheyletiella, Coenuriasis, Creeping eruption, Cryptosporidiosis, Demodex, Dipylidium caninum , Ehrlichiosis, Gastrospirillium hominis, Group EF-4 bacteria, Group IIj - causing meningitis , Group NO-1 bacteria , Hydatid cyst, Leishmaniasis, Leptospirosis , Linguatulosis, Neisseria canis and weaveri, Paragonimosis, Pasteurella multocida , Roundworms, Salmonellosis , Staphylococcus intermedius, Strongyloidosis, Toxocara , Trichinosis , Trypanosomiasis, Tuberculosis, Tularaemia, Visceral larval migrans, Yersiniosis (Plague)

-- julie f. (rumplefrogskin@excite.com), January 12, 2002.


Citrus peel will resist composting given an opportunity. If the compost is too cold or too dry then that volatile-citrus-oil-laced peel just won't do what you want. Not necessarily fatal - just be aware that you may need to throw citrus peel from your otherwise finished compost back into the new compost for another go-around.

-- Don Armstrong (darmst@yahoo.com.au), January 12, 2002.

Paul,

Take your air compressor, stick it down into that pipe and turn it on for a minute :) really gets the air to it!

-- LurkyLu (lurkylu@yahoo.com), January 12, 2002.


We put dog manure in our compost for years, and fed all of our garden plants with that compost. We did stop a couple of years ago, when we learned of the dangers. We always managed the pile well, and it was always kept at a hot temperature. We are now building a humanure pile, complete with all types of compost. We bought a no wait compost thermometer (instant temperature reading by holding it), that will make sure we don't burn our pile too much as we kill these pathogens.

I am quoting "The Humanure Handbook" by Joseph Jenkins here: Complete pathogen destruction is guaranteed by maintaining a temperature of 143.6 degrees F. for one hour, or 122 degrees F. for one day, and 114.8 degrees F. for one week, 109.4 degrees F. for on month." Currently we only plan on using this compost on our fruit trees.

Julie, where did you get all of those names? Are all of these pathogens also found in humanure? Do you feel that a properly managed pile would "guarantee pathogen destruction"?

Ernest, if you are reading this, I would like to offer you an opinion.

I seriously believe that burying humanure in an outhouse- where they can thrive, is doing a disservice to the earth, and that it would be better to destroy them in a compost pile, if only to be used on flowers and trees.

-- Rick (Rick_122@hotmail.com), January 12, 2002.



Rick, the problem with your method is that it's great in theory, but in practice it is unlikely that ALL of the material in a compost pile/bin is geting exposure to the temeratures required to kill off pathogens. The center gets the hottest, while the material on the top and sides rarely gets hot enough. You can improve results by turning the pile frequently and letting it heat a few times, but it is still unlikely that all of the pathogens will be destroyed.

-- Elizabeth (ekfla@aol.com), January 12, 2002.

Rick -- I don't have a list of all the communicable human diseases that are possible from using human manure, but I would think that the list would be greatly expanded. If you want to look into other zoonoses from other species (the cat list is quite impressive, and I was surprised to find out just how many species are affected by plague -- I understand a bit more about how the Black Death wiped the landscape clean of not only humans now.), you can check out this list -- http://www.provet.co.uk/health/zoonoses/Zoonoses.htm#c

As already stated by someone else, the problem would be in ensuring that ALL the matter was thoroughly heated, and some bacteria will not be killed at the temperatures a compost heap can attain, plus lingering contact exposure to any tools used, as well as surroundings, that can reinfect cooling compost.

-- julie f. (rumplefrogskin@excite.com), January 12, 2002.


Elizabeth

Until I insert the thermometer probe into the perimeters of the pile I won't know what the temperature is. I suppose it is possible that you are right, if the pile isn't fed well.

Mr. Jenkins has been composting humanure fore 20 years, and has had himself tested to verify that he isn't carrying any pathogens. I do not remember if he said that he has tested his piles themselves for pathogens.

Have you personally had a well-maintained pile that showed low thermometer readings on the top and sides, or is this 2nd hand?

Don't you think that burying pathogens in leach fiels, septic tanks and holes in the ground is creating a toxic area?

Thank you for your thoughts.

-- Rick (Rick_122@hotmail.com), January 12, 2002.


Julie

Do you know which types of bacteria wouldn't be killed at 143 deg. F.?

I am trying to makes sure that I am as informed as possible about the possible risks here.

Thanks

-- Rick (Rick_122@hotmail.com), January 12, 2002.


Rick-

I am not an expert by any means, nor a scientist, but I have had a lot of experience with backyard composting through my affiliation with our County Extension Service as a Master Composter. My experience has been that MANY, if not MOST, backyard compost bins/piles are not "well-managed", at least in terms of being able to maintain the temperatures needed to kill off pathogens. Most people are simply not interested enough to be bothered. Their goal is generally to simply dispose of yard waste, kitchen scraps, manure if they have livestock, etc., and/or to generate a supply of compost for use in the landscape/garden. Which by the way does not imply that they are doing it "wrong"- they are simply managing the pile in a way which gives them the results they are satisfied with.

I can guarantee that when you check the temp of your pile, the top and sides will register a lower temp than the middle. I know this from experience with my own (yes, well-managed, lol)compost piles, and logic dictates as well- the top and sides simply do not have the mass required to maintain heat, as does the middle. I have been composting for over 15 years and have experimented quite a lot with diferent methods, containment systems, etc. (Composting is a sort of hobby of mine!). I have also read Mr. Jenkins' book, and while I agree with most of what he has written, I would NOT use composted humanure on or around any edible plants or trees. I have composted humanure in the past, and disposed of the finished product by using it on landscape plants which are strictly ornamental.

"Don't you think that burying pathogens in leach fiels, septic tanks and holes in the ground is creating a toxic area?". As for burying humanure, I can't properly answer your question- I am not sure how long the pathogens would survive in a leach field, or in a hole in the ground. I think there is certainly a danger in overloading an area with them, as it takes time and the proper conditions to kill them. I'd be really interested to see a response from someone smarter than me on this subject.

-- Elizabeth (ekfla@aol.com), January 12, 2002.


Rick -- alas!! I will quote one of my inspirations, Michaelangelo and reply "I am still learning".

However, this may be a question to draw a lot of discussion on a different forum. Try this one -- http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/soil/ Perhaps Professor Dirt, CompostFrank, or one of the other luminaries there will know the answer, they often discuss biochemistry that is still WAY over my head.

-- julie f. (rumplefrogskin@excite.com), January 12, 2002.


Thank you Julie, I will try that forum for more details.

-- Rick (Rick_122@hotmail.com), January 12, 2002.

Moderation questions? read the FAQ