As a disyple of Jesus I aim (eventually) to live Jesus' every word in order to be like him in every way,...this is not my choice but Jesus will not leave me alone until I do.Jesus asks us not to take sides for then we can give an unbiased opinion on how things are ,we can step back and see the picture of things as a hole,..I'm not asking people to forget their catholis roots,...the church was set up to offer people guidence but does not fully fullfill the guidence of god's will.I, as following my beliefs,which is important that my beliefs can grow on their own accord and possibly outgrow the churches as the can be more about who I am ,can be moulded by God in a way that is true to myself and more true to Jesus.

-- Jesus' sidkick (fay_mark@hotmail.com), January 12, 2002

Answers

In answer to your question, "sidkick" ...
I do disagree with you. I think that you are very, very young and have not really learned much about life and Christianity yet. [Spelling, either, I'm afraid!]
But stick with it. You can join Jesus as a good Catholic some day.

Meanwhile, sidekick, try not to write silly things like this:
"Jesus asks us not to take sides for then we can give an unbiased opinion on how things are ..."

If you can come here to tell us "not to take sides," then you yourself are not permitted to say at least two things that you did say, which show that you "take sides":
"I don't think that Jesus would be Catholic ..."
"the [Catholic] church was set up to offer people guidence but does not fully fullfill the guidence of god's will."

God bless you.
John

-- (jfgecik@hotmail.com), January 12, 2002.

Well if you don't take sides, then you might as well be open minded to Satan's position also.

Since there is truth from God, we have to take sides, simply because there are so many people running around today, who say their message is the truth, and yet they say they are followers of Christ. How can contradicting teachings be correct? The Catholic Church offers guidance on many issues, that many so called Bible only followers do not offer.

I have asked Protestants or Non-denominationals for example on a number of times, what their Church teaches on artificial contraception. Almost every single one of them either did not know, or they had no problem with it! The very same Churches that were pro-life, yet did not teach their faithful to avoid contraceptive devices that are abortificients.

Well I am sorry, but I am going to take sides with the religion that makes it clear to it's faithful that we should not do things that involves the murder of human beings.

Another point in the people who say they have no denomination, and only have the Bible as their guide. They claim they are not taking sides, but when I ask them if they believe in child baptism, some say yes, and others say no, yet both are getting their truth from the Bible, as they claim the Holy Spirit is revealing this truth to them. Well I find it unlikely that the Holy Spirit is a liar, so I must presume that some of these people are not getting their teachings from the Holy Spirit. Notice that even these Non-denominationals have different teachings from each other. Looks like to me they are taking sides.

-- G Vink (gordonvink@bigfoot.com), January 12, 2002.

G Vink,

Is the Catholic side to murder or not? Is it not right to murder unborn children but allright to murder adults, like heretics in the Inquisition?

I don't get it, the Catholic church has taken both sides in the past and now assumably has grown to realize that killing adults is wrong. How do you differ in respect to a Bible believer who has grown? or growing in understanding? The Catholic church has changed it's side on beliefs many a times throughout history. Why can't a protestant Bible believer do the same? You contradict yourselves into a downward spiral. The church makes bold claims that it is the one and only truth and has been there for some 2000 years yet continues to change its stands on different matters. If the Catholic church never changed it's mind on even one matter than she stands boldly against all protesters, but that is not the fact. So, one who has any kind of wisdom would note that the Protestant churches are the continuation of the faith and the old Roman Catholic Church is by default the one in error. So, which one of the thousands of protestant churches are the correct one? Keep protesting the false doctrine and you will find her! Narrow is the way!

-- anon (me@you.com), January 12, 2002.

Anon,

As I am learning, there are rules in the posting process. If you are going to make claims that time and time again...

"The Catholic church has changed it's side on beliefs many a times throughout history. "

Then you need to cite examples with more information. As someone who comes here to learn, I don't gain anything from argumentative statements. I am not saying you need to teach me, but that appears to be the point of such a Socratic exercise.

Also, when it comes to the Catholic stance on killing. The Catholic stance is PRO-LIFE. End of Story. Again, please do not infer nor state that the actions of one represent the dogma of all. That has been shown to be a horrendous argument, unsupportable in all ways.

Thanks,

-- Christian (wardirish@yahoo.com), January 12, 2002.

Also Anon,

Good luck in that search for the Narrow way. Sometimes I wonder how you can believe the narrow way is a reference to you finding the "First Church of Second Ponce De Leon" or the "Third Coming of the First Reformed", and not a reference to you bending your will to God's?

And to Jesus's sidkick you said... "can be moulded by God in a way that is true to myself".

Your statement above portrays your desire that God bend. Case in point to Anon.

-- Christian (wardirish@yahoo.com), January 12, 2002.

I hope Anon that you are sincere in your discussions here, as based on the other references people have made about you in the other threads, it does not look too promising.

> "Is the Catholic side to murder or not? Is it not right to murder unborn children but allright to murder adults, like heretics in the Inquisition?"

The Church has always supported Capital punishment but in extreme circumstances. Note that past behaviour of the Inquisition may not have been in accordance with Church teaching.

> "I don't get it, the Catholic church has taken both sides in the past and now assumably has grown to realize that killing adults is wrong."

You are wrong, as the Church does support Capital punishment in extreme circumstances, like if there was no way to protect society from someone other than to kill them. Also the Church supports killing people in self-defence. Note that killing in self-defence, means that you killed the person accidently while defending yourself.

> "How do you differ in respect to a Bible believer who has grown? or growing in understanding?"

I made that clear, when I said that many Bible followers with no religion do not have teachings on some very important matters.

> "The Catholic church has changed it's side on beliefs many a times throughout history. Why can't a protestant Bible believer do the same?"

What is your faith Anon? I'm curious, as I would like to know who I am debating with here?

> "So, which one of the thousands of protestant churches are the correct one? Keep protesting the false doctrine and you will find her! Narrow is the way!"

Well tell me what you think of Child baptism? Do you support it, and why? Also what do you think of artificial contraception and why? Let's hear your narrow choices?

-- G Vink (gordonvink@bigfoot.com), January 12, 2002.

Plus, "Sidekick", you say that you wish to follow Jesus' every word. What about his admonition that "unless you eat my flesh and drink my blood, you will have no life within you."? He was not talking in symbols here! Only the Catholic and Eastern Orthodox churches have the True Presence of Our Lord in the Blessed Sacrament, His own Body and Blood. You can not fully following Jesus' teachings unless you are a Catholic. By the way, who started your religion, whatever sect you follow? The Roman Catholic Church was founded by Jesus!

-- Christina (introibo2000@yahoo.com), January 12, 2002.

Dear Sidekick of Jesus,
Did you know Jesus in His life on earth really had sidekicks? Twelve sidekicks, He called them to be apostles. They were all saints except Judas. But before they were saints, they were just, ''sidekicks'' --OK?

You are going to be a saint one day, if you're a real disciple of Our Lord. But if the Catholics don't help you, you'll stay just a sidekick, I'm afraid. Jesus has many of these here in this world. Some are called protestants, or ''born agains'', or just ''Bible Christians''. Jesus loves them. He wishes they were all in His Church, but they are in the world, is all. His own Church came to us from the Apostles, and they changed the world!

You tell us, ''[IT] is important that my beliefs can grow on their own accord and possibly outgrow the churches as the can be more about who I am ,can be moulded by God in a way that is true to myself and more true to Jesus.'' Think about this, just think:

Your beliefs, which can grow of their OWN accord, are Silver. Jesus' Church, the Catholic faith -- is GOLD. Who wants gold, when they can have Silver? Who wants to be a sidekick, when he can be a saint? It's up to you.

-- eugene c. chavez (chavezec@pacbell.net), January 12, 2002.

I have a question I've wondered about for some time, maybe you could help me clear it up. I used to have a Catholic friend when I was young who apparently wasn't allowed to eat meat on Fridays. Yet I see Catholics doing that now. Has the Catholic church changed it's mind on this and if so why?

-- Tim Black (tblack@hotmail.com), January 12, 2002.

Jmj

Hello, Annie [my nickname for "Anon"].

Christian was right to challenge you to provide examples for your claim that "The Catholic church has changed it's side on beliefs many a times throughout history."
Annie, I want to recommend that you not waste a lot of time searching for examples, because you won't be able to find any. Remember, you referred to changing "beliefs" -- things that we must believe (our faith doctrines) or actions we must do or avoid (morality).
This brings me to Tim's new question about Catholics not eating meat on Friday until 1966. A glance at what I just said about "beliefs" makes it clear that Friday abstinence was not a matter of faith or morals, but of what is called discipline. That is, it was a changeable practice done as a penitential act, in memory of Christ's death on Good Friday. Now, we must still do something of a penitential nature each Friday, but it can be something of our own choice (such as "exercises of piety and works of charity"). Many Catholics still abstain from meat.

When Pope Paul VI introduced the change, he wrote: "To recall and urge all the faithful to the observance of the divine precept of penitence, the Apostolic See intends to reorganize penitential discipline with practices more suited to our times. It is up to the bishops —- gathered in their episcopal conferences —- to establish the norms which, in their pastoral solicitude and prudence, and with the direct knowledge they have of local conditions, they consider the most opportune and efficacious. ... Therefore, the Church, while preserving -— where it can be more readily observed —- the custom (observed for many centuries with canonical norms) of practicing penitence also through abstinence from meat and fasting, intends to ratify with its prescriptions other forms of penitence as well, provided that it seems opportune to episcopal conferences to replace the observance of fast and abstinence with exercises of prayer and works of charity."

Annie, you asked: "Is it not right to murder unborn children but all right to murder adults, like heretics in the Inquisition?"
Sorry, but the Catholic Church did not "murder adults" during the Inquisition or at any other time. You are just parroting anti-Catholic nonsense that you have heard or read.
One also cannot mention abortion and capital punishment in the same breath, because the first involves innocent, defenseless babies, while the second usually involves guilty adults who themselves have killed others.

Annie, you asked: "How do you differ in respect to a Bible believer who has grown? or growing in understanding?"
At last, you have made a reasonable statement. The Catholic Church does believe in "developement of doctrine," a church-wide growing in the understanding of a mystery of the faith -- through reflection, sometimes for centuries. Our Magisterium (teaching authority of pope and bishops) confirms for us any authentic development that may occur. Each individual Catholic also can grow in understanding, but never in a direction that contradicts what our Church teaches.

Annie, you went on: "If the Catholic church never changed it's mind on even one matter than she stands boldly against all protesters, but that is not the fact.
Ah, but it surely is "the fact."

And: "So, one who has any kind of wisdom would note that the Protestant churches are the continuation of the faith and the old ... Catholic Church is by default the one in error."
Nonsense, since the previous statement was wrong. Protestantism is a manmade invention less than 500 years old, lacking some doctrines and teaching other falsely.

Finally: "So, which one of the thousands of protestant churches are the correct one? Keep protesting the false doctrine and you will find her!"
If you keep "protesting the false doctrine," you will reject every single Protestant denomination that exists! On the other hand, without Catholic guidance, there will be many cases in which you will lack the ability to figure out what is, and what is not, a "false doctrine."

God bless you.
John

-- (jfgecik@hotmail.com), January 12, 2002.

> "Many Catholics still abstain from meat."

Yep, my Father and brother have been doing this for years, and I have been doing it for about a year now. Took me awhile to get this as a habit, as I continually forgot to do it for years.

It's a small act, but I enjoy doing it, as it is an act of faith.

I always thought that abstaining from meat, had to do with a decision of the bishops in each country?

-- G Vink (gordonvink@bigfoot.com), January 13, 2002.

Yes, Gordon. Take another gander at this part of the passage from Pope Paul that I quoted above:
"Therefore, the Church, while preserving -— where it can be more readily observed —- the custom (observed for many centuries with canonical norms) of practicing penitence also through abstinence from meat and fasting, intends to ratify with its prescriptions ther forms of penitence as well, provided that it seems opportune to episcopal conferences to replace the observance of fast and abstinence with exercises of prayer and works of charity."

Pursuant to this, the U.S. bishops did opt to replace obligatory abstinence from meat with the option to abstain (as before) or to perform alternative penitential acts.

JFG

-- (jfgecik@hotmail.com), January 13, 2002.

Christian,

Maybe this will help. If the Catholic church has not changed can you please let me know when and how you are going to keep the feast days that God commanded. Jesus may have very well fulfilled Passover and Pentecost may have been partially fulfilled. What about the others such as the feast of tabernacles and trumpets, etc? Or were these feasts done in vain by our forefathers with no points to the Messiah?

Btw, if I worshiped Buddah then I would be a Buddhist, but I worship a God that I don't really know his name so I am a blessed me his namist, I am that I amist, creater of the universist, salvationist, mercifulist, but more importantly I'm just a son and he is my Father.

-- anon (me@you.com), January 13, 2002.

Um, anon...
Was that last post the result of Jack Daniels or Ripple?
I mean, what the hey?


-- (@@@.@), January 13, 2002.

All the commandments and celebrations and atonement of the Old Testament are fulfilled forever in Jesus Christ, anon.

The Catholic Church celebrates the life, the passion, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ, as He commanded (Matt 28: 18-20). The Church passes on His grace to the faithful through the sacraments He instituted in her. These are Baptism, Confirmation, Penance, Matrimony, Holy Orders, Extreme Unction, and His own divine presence amidst His People (Jesus is Emmanuel) that is: The Holy Eucharist. Nothing absolutely is missing for our grace and salvation. All this is His to give, from His Almighty Father.

Jesus said to the Church:''I will not leave you orphans, I will come to you. Yet a little while, and the world no longer sees me, *He is hidden under the appearance of Bread and Wine*, anon). But you see me for I live, and you shall live.''

If then, anon-- You say, ''I worship a God that I don't really know his name so I am a blessed be his namist,'' You reject all that Jesus has revealed about Himself in the Holy Gospel. I feel very sorry for you. You have exchanged gold for silver, and that makes you satisfied.

-- eugene c. chavez (chavezec@pacbell.net), January 13, 2002.

Just a note about Jesus' words above: ''I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you. Yet a little while and the world no longer sees me. But you see me, for I live and you shall live.'' This is in John, 14: 18 and 19.

Jesus states ''the world'' no longer sees Him. The world means outside His Holy Church. ''But you shall see me, for I live,'' He means I live in your midst (Emmanuel)-- in the Holy Eucharist; ''and you shall live.'' He means we live in His sanctifying grace.

The Apostles were initiated first into these holy mysteries. They explained them to the Church through the scriptures and their disciples (Tradition). Nothing whatever was left to chance by Our Lord.

-- eugene c. chavez (chavezec@pacbell.net), January 13, 2002.

I am sorry if many of you dissagree with my thoughts but they are just my thoughts and I am truely only seeking the truth.Jesus encourages me ,as I am a very honest person to myself and to others to have faith in myself and to speek freely in what I believe(hence the spelling mistakes).I respect my elders very strongly and feel myself being moulded on your thoughts.I guess what I meant to say is that Jesus wouldn't be a Christian as Christianity is a religion and what we have is far stronger in the form of the holy spirit.The Catholic church is ,(as in time things have changed),an example of God in man as God has given it to us, which he has done for a very good reason.In following Jesus' word I can be an example of god in me but I am very interested in your opinions as I truely believe that experiene is the best way to learn.What Jesus wants me to do is to leave everything and to follow him but the church is ,in this day in age part of the world and will be destroyed with the world ,however I and many of us are not part of this world .The church has only discouraged my will to be a disyple of Jesus so maybe my reaction is to turn away from the church and to find my own path to God through Jesus and through the word of the Apostles.Jesus' word has never been at it's purest in a long time.I would be gratefull for an unbiased opinion as I was born and raised a catholic and I believe that it kept me close to my heart and it kept me loving God but if to call myself a Catholic again is the best thing then I would be only too happy to.It si interesting what G Vink said as I feel God could be stronger within me which I put down to the habits of others eating away at me and when I am in church I am a mush better person.I want to be a priest and a Catholic priest would be the best option so I am very eager to learn your opinions.

-- Jesus' sidkick (fay_mark@hotmail.com), January 14, 2002.

> "I am sorry if many of you dissagree with my thoughts but they are just my thoughts and I am truely only seeking the truth."

Well that is always a good thing, and you may have been misunderstood as being an anti-Catholic which this forum is full of. Some of us tend to have a kneejerk reaction to those who are to making claims against the faith, when these people should instead be asking open questions, and trying to gain a better understanding of the faith before they criticize.

> "Jesus encourages me ,as I am a very honest person to myself and to others to have faith in myself and to speek freely in what I believe(hence the spelling mistakes).I respect my elders very strongly and feel myself being moulded on your thoughts.I guess what I meant to say is that Jesus wouldn't be a Christian as Christianity is a religion and what we have is far stronger in the form of the holy spirit."

But even the Apostles themselves relied on each other's good counsel after being filled with the Holy Spirit. As you know, some books in the Bible, are letters from let's say St. Paul writing to a particular Church, and extoling them to stay on the correct path of Jesus's teachings. That is one of the primary functions of God's Church in this world. We can be guided by the Holy Spirit, but God's Church is the measuring standard that we should base our faith by. By doing this, it is an act of humility before God, that we do not rely just on our own intellects.

> "The Catholic church is ,(as in time things have changed),an example of God in man as God has given it to us, which he has done for a very good reason.In following Jesus' word I can be an example of god in me but I am very interested in your opinions as I truely believe that experiene is the best way to learn."

Praying for guidance, and asking questions from Catholics who understand their faith is the best way to go. That is how I began to take my faith seriously, and was motivated because I questioned where I was going to go after I die.

> "What Jesus wants me to do is to leave everything and to follow him but the church is ,in this day in age part of the world and will be destroyed with the world ,however I and many of us are not part of this world ."

Not sure what you mean by the Church being destroyed, and you will not, as Jesus himself said that the gates of Hell will not prevail against his Church, and the fact it has lasted for 2000 years is a testament to that statement.

The Church has to operate in the world, as it is an organization, and if it isolated itself from the world, it would not be able to do it's job correctly which is to promote the faith to the whole world, and not just to Catholics.

> "The church has only discouraged my will to be a disyple of Jesus so maybe my reaction is to turn away from the church and to find my own path to God through Jesus and through the word of the Apostles.Jesus' word has never been at it's purest in a long time."

Maybe there is some bad experience you had in the Church?

> "I would be gratefull for an unbiased opinion as I was born and raised a catholic and I believe that it kept me close to my heart and it kept me loving God but if to call myself a Catholic again is the best thing then I would be only too happy to."

Well continue doing what you are doing now. Share your experiences with us, ask questions, and share what you knowledge you have of the faith. We are all brothers and sisters of Christ, and we need each other.

I recently joined the Legion of Mary, which gets togeather once a week to pray as a group and we do charity work. This is the best way to live life as a Christian as you are then putting your feelings and your faith into practice. Maybe you can check if you local Church's have a Legion of Mary group?

> "It is interesting what G Vink said as I feel God could be stronger within me which I put down to the habits of others eating away at me and when I am in church I am a mush better person.I want to be a priest and a Catholic priest would be the best option so I am very eager to learn your opinions."

If you go to a church where you see little faith, then go to another Church. Some churches are better than others.

Remember one of the most important things about God's Church in this world is the Sacraments where we receive grace from God. For example, going to confession is very important, as it allows you to examine your conscience, allows a priest to help you in understanding and overcoming your weaknesses, and as a result allows you to grow in faith. It also gives you a great opportunity to ask the Priest questions about your faith, after you have made your confession, and this is far perferable, then asking for a Priest directly.

God bless!

Pray the Rosary, as the Rosary is a powerful prayer, and can have a huge effect in your life! It is truly an amazing prayer!

Ave Maria Gratia Plena (Hail Mary Full of Grace)

-- G Vink (gordonvink@bigfoot.com), January 14, 2002.

Dear Jesus' Sidekick--

You have a slight trouble making us understand. But don't worry about it; we have you in our thoughts.

You can be a fine, holy man as a Catholic, and even if the Church may disappoint you in some ways, stick with her. She's like your mother, you see. Who hasn't had a day when all mother di was make us upset??? It's part of this life. But Mother Church is never going to abandon you, sidekick.

Even if you went far away from her, she would remain your loving mother. There is no such person as an ex-Catholic. I could forget my own earthly mother; never phone, never write, never think of her. But she is part of me; the closest part; the part that runs through my veins until I die. We can't leave our mother out of our life without draining away every drop of our blood, Huh?

Same with Her, the Church. In her we find things (people) who have nothing attractive about them. We can't find anything good in them. But; they also have the Blood of the faith in them. In fact, It is Jesus Christ's own Blood. He died on the cross and shed all His blood to wash away our sins! We were washed in it! What good is running away from her. Jesus put His Body and Blood within her for us; where are we supposed to go for Him Maybe you'll become His priest, if you pray for the vocation. Let us pray for you, too. You're worth it, and you can return here for more encouragement. This is where He sent you, Sidekick. Jesus sent you here!

-- eugene c. chavez (chavezec@pacbell.net), January 14, 2002.

No, maybe Jesus would not be Catholic!!! But He has other choices : He could be the fisrt day Lutheran, the second Calvinist, the third Anglican, the fourth Episcopalian, next Baptist, next Zwinglian, next Quacker, next Seven Day Adv., next Presbyterian and go on and on and on until you get tired, and still there would be thousands of choices more for Him. And at the end we could ask Him: LORD, IS THAT WHAT YOU MEANT WHEN YOU SAID THAT YOU WANTED "ONE FLOCK, ONE SHEPPERD"?

Enrique

-- Enrique Ortiz (eaortiz@yahoo.com), January 18, 2002.

jesus was born a jew and he died a jew.he was never christain.he did not start up the religion.if you feel jesus in your heart then you have a problem.jesus said"i did not come in peace,i came with sword in hand".the bible only has 5% of his teachings,my guess is they came from different men in those days.learn to think for yourself sidekick.do not liston to others,me included.if there is a god liston to him,he is in you.think for yourself.if your god has power he does not need a book.{bible}. freethinker '

-- shirley kelsoe (farout96@aol.com), January 20, 2002.

Sidekick, nice advise you got from shirley:

"learn to think for yourself sidekick.do not liston to others,me included."

why bother reading the Bible or any other book, why go to conferences, study groups, this or that church ...just think for your self....create your own religion or church and .....be happy!

Enrique

-- Enrique Ortiz (eaortiz@yahoo.com), January 20, 2002.

How is Shirley thinking for HERSELF? Upside-down.

Yes, Shirley. A Christian was the last thing any Jew would ever become, in the beginning of Christianity. Let's see; Peter, Paul, John Andrew, all twelve apostles were Jews. So is Jesus

How can Peter and Paul be Christians? You say: ''Jesus said, I did not come in peace, I came with sword in hand. The bible only has 5% of his teachings.''

Dear Sidekick; see how harmful some ''free-thinkers'' can be? If I listen to Shirley, I throw out 95% of the Holy Gospel, and ''I'll be HAPPY!'' Haahaaahaaaaa!!! That's ''thinking for yourself.''

-- eugene c. chavez (chavezec@pacbell.net), January 20, 2002.

You may be interested to know, Sidekick:

Not everybody has the Holy Spirit. Talk is cheap, and many people talk a cheap Christianity. Jesus Christ says if you will be HIS disciple, every day you must ''Pick up your cross and follow me.'' Yes all the truth Jesus brought us is in His Church. Let me repear your words,

''Maybe if there was a unified church where all churches are my home then I would belong to that.''

In the original days, when the Christian hid underground in Rome, for instance, the Church was unified. No martyr died for Christ in any other ''denomination'' for 1,500 years.

I won't deny some protestants have offered their lives for Jesus; in places like China, Africa and India, to bring the Word of God to unbelievers.

They deserve the palm of martyrdom as well as a Catholic. But EVEN they were not in possession of the entire Word of God. They passed on to pagan converts a protestant, flawed doctrine. However, any convert the baptised into their church has become a Catholic. The Catholics that do their best to serve Christ; despite not knowing the whole faith of the Apostles. It may not be their fault; so God does save many of them. But in the Catholic faith is ALL the truth. We can prove it to you. Stay in touch here, Sidekick. It will bring you much closer to God than you ever expected. God bless you!

-- eugene c. chavez (chavezec@pacbell.net), January 20, 2002.

nope....Jesus would have made a poor Catholic indeed.. i think he would have found it hard to confess sins to a mere mortal..to call just another man "pope" or "father".. to consult the doctrines of this so-called "Holy Church" rather than his Fathers word... yes....He would have had a hard time being catholic..

-- robert walker (zenmastr@hpnc.com), January 23, 2002.

Robert,

Actually, since Jesus set up His Church with this structure, He would love to see the Catholic Church today. However, I agree that He would not confess His sins to a priest. He was sinless!

-- Glenn (glenn@excite.com), January 24, 2002.

Robert,

Jesus confessing his sins?

What are they teaching you people?

If we just let you argue your points on your own, you seem to adeptly refute yourself.

Good luck.

-- Christian (wardirish@yahoo.com), January 24, 2002.

Thank you very much Eugine, I will do my best to keep in touch.Talk is cheap indeed but Jesus' word is anything but.I thought at the beginning of your letter that you were attacking me but thankfully you weren't.It"s just a shame that as Christians we can all be so divided. St Pauls loyalty to the Jewish faith took him on the wrong path until he found loyalty to Jesus and I want to make sure I don't fall into the same trap as he did.It is Jesus I love above everything and I would do anything for him, should the Catholic faith come into it?My priorities are with Jesus and thats the way I want it.If I am a free minded spirit then free from the church is an ideal way for me to generate love ,is it not?thank tou and God bless(i'm new to this). ps,...you can call me Mark if you wish as it is my name.My name means shining and Fay means Faith or fidelity.Without Jesus I am nothing but with him I can achieve anything.

-- Jesus' sidkick (fay_mark@hotmail.com), January 25, 2002.

That's really great, Mark. You call me Gene.

I recall as a boy of nine in 3rd grade Catholic school. I was only there one year, to prepare for First Holy Communion. I really loved it, but we were poor and couldn't afford to pay tuition more than one year.

Later, My Mom and Dad were able to send my two sisters to Catholic High School. It's a great privelege; never let anybody tell you it isn't. People joke about how nasty the nuns were in their Catholic schools. You better know they're liars!

But I remeber in a religion textbook, reading a story about a young Christian martyr, in days of the Roman Empire. Saint Tarcicius, I recall. He was killed by the enemies of the Church while carrying the sacrament of Jesus' Body (it only looks like bread) to a sick man. He died for Christ.

This was before the Church was separated from many of her faithful, in the schisms around 800 years later, and the ''reformation'' in 1,500's. Before them, all Christians were one Church. The Catholic Church. No church in the whole history of the world has given as many saints and martyrs to Christ than this Church, Mark.

-- eugene c. chavez (chavezec@pacbell.net), January 25, 2002.

I defenetly agree with you Gene and am aware of the privelege's that have been given to us, I am also happy that I was born a Catholic and I have many before me to thank for being baptised for now God has blessed me in my life.The Christian Church is strong as it is yet nowhere near as stong as it could be if it was as one again.When I first expressed my opinion I was being attacked not only because I was misunderstood but because I was attacking you thought I was attacking the church but you weren't just attacking me you were attacking Jesus.It reminds me of the story when the people of Jeruselem were saying that Jesus has the power of Bezelbub and Jesus says that when a kingdom is divided against itself then it will fall.Obviously it's not the same as the Christian Church is indeed very strong. I was born a Catholic so this is God's will but I never had the chance to be Communed which I also believe is for a reason.I do believe what you said abot the nuns as I trust in God and not in man.I find it funny that you found it a great privelege to attend the Catholic school when you were young maybe times were different then ,were your sisters as inthusiastic as you were?I find that it's always when you find aut you can't have/do something that something always seems more appealing which if true would be God's graceous way of helping you to love him and respect him and indeed believe in him.I was never as commited is God when I was younger as I am now but was always amazed by him.I lost touch with my faith until two years ago Jesus rescued me from certain troubles and asked me ,before he could help me if I would do anything for him and this has been my strenght ever since.It is very touching what our brothers have done for us ,they have showed us how strng we can be,how commited ,that no matter what we have done ,we will overcome our troubles and be greater than ever plus many many more.I'm sorry I take so long to reply but some computers I use don't allow me to enter Lusenet fo some reason.Thankyou fow being so kind as to reply .I look forward to your reply(hopefully).

-- Jesus' sidkick (fay_mark@hotmail.com), January 28, 2002.

Hi Sidekick,

I, too, had the benefit of a Catholic elementary level education. Today, I send my children to Catholic schools, all the way through high school, and even college.

What many Christians don't realize is that Jesus Christ founded a Church. "You are Peter ("rock") and upon this rock, I will build My Church and the gates of hell will not prevail against it." Christ instituted the Sacraments. The Apostles passed on Christ's teachings to the early Christians, sometimes by word of mouth and sometimes by a written letter.

When the Church was about 400 years old, it was decided to put together the inspired letters, along with the Sacred Scriptures before Christ's birth. Who decided this? And who decided which letters were inspired by the Holy Spirit, and which weren't? The Catholic Church. Yes, it's true, the leather bound, red-letter edition didn't fall from the sky; the Church which Christ founded, which is incapable of teaching error and is guided by the Holy Spirit, compiled the Holy Bible.

The New Testament is a recording of the activities of the early Catholic Church.

It is amazing how some people try to use their modern-day understanding of the Bible to refute the teachings which Christ gave to the very Church which hand-copied by candlelight that very Bible for 1,200 years, until the invention of the printing press by Gutenberg. The first book ever published was the Catholic Bible; Gutenberg was himself a Catholic.

Then, in the 1500's, Martin Luther began editing the Bible, removing entire books, and splintering off from Catholicism to form his own, man-made church with man-made doctrines such as sola scriptura. He wanted his followers to believe in the Bible alone, but not the True Bible, his edited version! More splinters followed. Today, there are more than 33,000 different protestant denominations, and they're still inventing new meanings to the Scriptures as modern language changes.

Only the Church which was founded by Christ 2,000 years ago remains One. She has not changed the Bible, nor the meanings, but teaches today the same things the Apostles taught 2,000 years ago. She has a traceable line of leaders from Peter all the way to John Paul II, and is guided by the Holy Spirit today, just as then.

The Catholic Church is blessed with not only the Bible, but the perfect understanding of it, since she compiled it. The Catholic Church is blessed with Apostolic tradition and history as well.

I'm not saying that popes don't sin or haven't sinned. We are imperfect people in a perfect Church. Perfect because Christ founded it. No matter how badly we humans have bungled things up, Christ keeps His promises. The gates of hell do not prevail against This Church, because He has sent the Paraclete, the Holy Spirit, Who guides the Church in all Truth.

No other Church makes the claims that the Catholic Church can, for one reason: none can. If they could, they would!

(Can you tell I'm just a bit enthusiastic about my Faith?!) ;)

Pax Christi. (Peace of Christ.) <><

-- Anna (Flower@youknow.com), December 08, 2003.

I just wish I had looked at the dates of these posts a little sooner! How did this one get resurrected? :D

Pax Christi. <><

-- Anna (Flower@youknow.com), December 08, 2003.

Someone must have posted some junk on this thread, raising it up on the "new answers" list. But then the moderator must have deleted the junk post -- which would not make it disappear from your "new answers" list unless you did a "reload/refresh."

-- (Answer@Man.com), December 08, 2003.

quite right, there was a rather anti semitic post here and i asked the moderator to delete it.

-- paul h (dontSendMeMail@notAnAddress.com), December 08, 2003.