Well, it happened in an unexpected fashion but my wife finally made up her mind about getting a dairy animal and says I can if I want to so now I'm in a quandary.

I've wanted to have one for years - cow or goat either will do - but of course there's the twice-a-day-everyday problem which has always deterred me. It's not like we take a lot of vacations but I do like to go and visit family once in a while and would like to be able to do so more than the short period of time when the animal would be dry. The nearest friends whom I could ask to fill in for me to do the milking that I would trust to do it are rather too far away for me to comfortably ask them to make the number of trips that even just a weekend would require so I've always just shelved the idea.

Until this last weekend. A friend of mine mentioned that they had kept a milk cow when she was a girl but didn't milk twice a day nor necessarily even once a day by using the simple expedient of letting the calf stay with the cow. When they needed milk they'd pen up the calf and milk the cow. When they didn't need milk they'd let the calf have it. Apparently the cow was a holstein which made more milk than their family of four was going to drink so the "lost" milk was no loss to them.

Now gardening and chickens I know but my knowledge of dairy animals is mostly scholarly so I'm asking you folks who have hands on experience if this is a practical idea? Is there some major reason why this shouldn't be done? I'm leaning towards dairy goats or perhaps a Jersey cow which would make less than the several gallons I understand Holsteins give now.

As an aside the reason my wife decided that perhaps we should start producing more of our own meat and dairy products is that she works as a cataloger for the university library here in Gainesville (FL). Lately she has been incorporating the various documents produced by the university's Institute of Food and Agricultural Sciences (they run the cooperative extension service for state of Florida) into the university library's main catalog. This has required her to at least skim all sorts of fascinating documents like using broiler litter as a cattle food supplement which has definitely taken some of the joy out of her enjoyment of store bought meat and milk. Out of the clear blue the other day she said that perhaps we should get our own milk animals and what was involved in butchering large animals?

However she got there, she's there now and I'm not going to let the golden moment pass if I can help it.

........Alan.

-- Alan (athagan@atlantic.net), January 15, 2002

Answers

Response to The dairy animal quandary

Hi Alan, I milk my Jersey once a day. I only milk twice a day when she first freshens and until we work out a schedule between her and her calf and I. I leave the calf on until it starts taking more of my morning milk than I want, then I start putting it up at night. When it's real big and could drink all of her milk, I can leave for a few days if I want to and the calf can have all it want's. This is what works for me and I've never had a problem with the cow drying up. Good luck and enjoy your cow (or goat). I've also milked goats once a day with great results too, BTW.

-- Julie (julieamc@eagleslair.net), January 15, 2002.

Response to The dairy animal quandary

Hi Alan, When my goats first kid, after the first day, I milk them twice a day to encourage production, but leave the kids with them. Once the milk is good (colostrum is gone), after a week or two, I pen the kids at night, milk for us in the morning, and let the kids back with the does. At that point, I am milking for the chickens or dogs at night (less hassle) to continue to encourage production.

Pretty quickly, the doe's production will peak and the kids will get to the point that they can keep that udder empty, given the opportunity. At that point, I cut back to morning milkings only. If I'm going to be gone overnight, I just leave the kids with the does for the night, milking out any excess when we return.

Once the kids are sold, I stay with the once a day milkings, and the does cut back their production to a comfortable once-a-day level. I find this system quite convenient. Best of luck with your dairy animals!

-- Laura Jensen (lauraj@seedlaw.com), January 15, 2002.

Response to The dairy animal quandary

Alan, Wow, can I relate to your story. For three years I weighed up the same situation as you are doing. The great dairy products versus the tied to the house scenerio. Last September I just decided to come down off the fence one way or the other. I now have a cute little Dexter heifer out in the pasture, with a cute little Dexter steer to keep her company. The steer will eventually go in the freezer, and the heifer will be bred later this year. I went with a calf as I have no cow experience, so didn't want to be overwhelmed with a milker right away. When I weighed up the gains against the cons time and time again, there was only really one way to go. I, like your wife also read about the chicken litter - yuk! Give it a try, if it doesn't work out there are always people looking for good family cows (or goats), let us know what you decide.

-- Carol K (ckoller@bluefrognet.net), January 15, 2002.

I think Carol has the right idea if your questioning twice aday milking. Our jersey we milk once a day later in lactation, But some cows will dry up....I know nothing of goats! Our sweet cow has been giving us quality calves and milk for 8 years now. We have adjusted very well, we do most of our traveling when she's dry. {That's why we always miss the Countryside picnic!!!} extra milk goes to pigs mainly and then the rest of the stock. Just do alot of reading first..

-- Suzanne (weir@frontiernet.net), January 15, 2002.

they really do feed chicken litter from broiler houses to cows.

I milked a holstein/angus in the described manner. You don't get near as much milk but plenty for a small family. she will not go dry until she weans her calf [which they do when they are a certain place in the next pregnancy]. she will try to wean you then also and you should let her have the say-so here.

I had a friend who needed to take an extended trip and his jersey milk cow had no calf [I forget the reason] I couldn't go to his place every day - my cow was dry, so I asked if he could bring her to me. he did.

personal opinion - I much perfer cows over goats. I love goat's milk - and goats, as long as they belong to someone else.

Blessings

-- carol (kanogisdi@yahoo.com), January 15, 2002.

Hi Alan, I have Nubian goats, and they have the absolute sweetest, rich milk. It wasn't always that way though, it used to taste goaty and yucky. Then we learned to separate the buck from the the does, and we free feed alfalfa, and give them all the 16% dairy grain during milking that they can eat. Mine aren't heavy milkers (thank heavens!)I'm milking 2 right now, and get between 1 1/2 and 2 gallons per day. I pull the kids off from day one, milk the doe out and bottle feed the kids. I leave the kids with the doe but they don't have any interest at all in nursing off of her...I'm mom to them. I've raised a Jersey heifer who is just now old enough to breed for a family milk cow, but more and more I'm thinking I will sell her, as the goats are 1) easier on the land 2) easier on my pocketbook in regards to housing, and 3) a gallon of milk a day is more than I can use! The only advantage I can see to a cow would be the cream and butter.

-- CJ (cjtinkle@getgoin.net), January 15, 2002.

Just had to comment again....Jerseys give more then a gallon...try 7!!! But we have never dumped it always something to feed it to. Don't forget about all the cheese and butter you can have...

-- Suzanne (weir@frontiernet.net), January 15, 2002.

Alan you do know you have to feed, water, watch over them, and then what do you do for milk when she weans the calf or kids? Livestock is not a everyother day project. Yes meat animals can be fed large amounts of hay on the weekends, and have automatic waters, dairy stock is simply higher maintance. Even the pets, you have to get someone over everyday to feed and water and check on them. There are just times during the year when you have any kind of stock that you can't leave them alone. You should lean towards the cow, because if your wife gets goats, your life will be breeding season, kidding season, milking season and of course SHOW season :) Vicki

-- Vicki McGaugh TX (vickilonesomedoe@hotmail.com), January 16, 2002.

Well, feeding, watering, housing and all that is nothing new to me. I've kept animals for years, just nothing that had to be milked. It was before my time but my grandfather ran a dairy and it was much discussed in the family as I was growing up so I'm not unfamiliar with the requirements of keeping such animals just inexperienced in the hands-on end.

If we could get free for a few days while the animal was dry and while the calf/kid was still nursing we could make out OK because that would give us the time to make our visits to the kinfolk who can't/won't travel to see us that we want to see. Other kinds of travel usually doesn't involve the entire family going at the same time so someone would be home to do the milking.

Goats would fit in better with our long-term land management plans but cow's milk is easier to seperate into cream and milk since neither my wife or I need to be drinking a lot of whole milk. I also have size extra-large hands (makes finding gloves of any sort difficult) so I'm concerned about how easily I could milk a goat. I suppose by the time get the fencing in the way I want it I'll know which way to go. Reckon for the dry periods we could either use frozen milk, buy it at the store (maybe even health food stores) or just go without.

Y'all have convinced me now that the project is feasible so I'll start incorporating a dairy animal into our plans. Having just bought the place last Fall we're still at the point where anything that costs more than $50 has to be planned out pretty far in advance.

Thanks much for your input and if anyone else would like to join in please feel free!

........Alan.

-- Alan (athagan@atlantic.net), January 16, 2002.

Alan lots of good advice------my Dad had a dairy as I grew up --then over the years we have had a cow or two---several different breeds-- but my all time favorite /if we are going to just have one cow is the Jersey. Nothing like their personalities---I put that bell around their neck with a colar & you can always tell where she is--- I personally have never had one that tried to kick!!! Been kicked really hard--& needed kickers for several other breeds--- If you want just one cow----I just love a Jersey---have always been fortunate enough when I had a cow---that when I bought her she was already bred ---when I needed to breed her back there was a neighbor who had a Jersey bull---now a days with artifical breeding---you don't even have to worry so much about who has a bull!! If we were able to have a cow where we are now-----it would be a Jersey---I just love them---again there are soooo many good qualities about them---put one being their personality!!!!! Have not found a match with any other breed---not saying there isn't--but have just had such good luck with that breed!!!

-- Sonda (sgbruce@birch.net), January 16, 2002.

Alan, we have 2 Jersey cows, and this is how we manage them. We use one to raise calves to sell - Jerseys are usually great about accepting any calf you bring them. These calves pay for all the animal's feed for the year. The other we use as the family milk cow. We actually leave her calf on her until it's butchering time (if it's a steer.) We just sent her 14 month old steer to the processor. At times I only milked the cow once a week for house milk. Had to milk while the steer was nursing, though, otherwise she wouldn't let down her milk. It did get a little hairy when he got almost as big as her, and started shoving on her when he had emptied his half - almost knocked her over on me a couple of times. That's when he had to go. But it works out great. It's much easier to get someone to come over and feed and water while you take a vacation than it is to get someone to milk. Also, the calf grows at a tremendous rate and has very tender meat because of all the milk. Now I am back to milking once a day for a little while. BTW, I have never had a cow dry up with once a day milking. I even kept a cow going for a while once with every other day milking when we had some extenuating circumstances. Her production diminished a little, but picked back up when things got back to normal, though some cows might not tolerate this as well. That old cow lives to make milk. It's always hard to get her to dry up when it's time.

-- Paula (chipp89@bellsouth.net), January 16, 2002.

We have both dairy goats and a Jersey milk cow. We left the calf on the Jersey. We milked about 1x per day to start but then let the calf have the milk because by that time the goats were also in milk. We milked the goats 2x per day during the summer but when we got back into the fall routine we dropped to 1x per day. When the calf was weaned we also started milking the Jersey again 1x per day dropping to 1x ever other day and then every 3rd day until we decided to dry them up in December. We took several day or over night trips during the summer and a couple of weekend in the fall. Because we were getting enough milk we didn't worry about missing 1 milking - in fact, we usually skip the Monday night milking - as a break for us and them if we were gone longer we arranged to have someone milk at least 1x per day. Because we weren't going for "top" production, this worked out well for us. Good luck.

-- Trisha-MN (coldguinea@netscape.net), January 16, 2002.

Alan,

It took me a long time to convince my husband that we needed a milk cow. Now that we have her, he is thrilled. He and the kids drink so much more milk now because it tastes better and we never run out!

The cow I bought was a ten year old jersey. She only has three good quarters and one of the good ones has a really small teat and is difficult to grasp. BUT...I got her for only 400$. She was pastured with a jersey bull and now we have the sweetest jersey heifer calf you've ever seen!

I recommend a jersey. Even though ours was a little wild when we got her, she was never threatening or pushy and has never offered to kick. She is still not as gentle as I would like, but I've learned to finish milking before she finishes her feed. I let the calf suck while I am milking as it seems to make the milk flow faster allowing easier and quicker milking.

We often skip a milking by letting her stay with the calf. We've had no problems with this. We get about one and a half to two gallons per day. I have butter in the freezer and last week I made cheese!

Good luck!

-- Mona in OK (modoc@ipa.net), January 17, 2002.

Having had both milk cows and dairy goats, I would recommend the dairy cows...but only if you really want more than a few gallons of milk per day per cow! I've milked both a Holstein/Jersey and Guernsey/Jersey cross cow and both were equally good-tempered and easy to milk. In my area, I had a problem with getting either one of them to a bull on time to be bred or getting the A-I technician at my barn at the correct breeding time for the cows. Maybe this would not be a problem for you...but a cow is alot harder to transport than a goat! I now have several alpine dairy goats that give over a gallon a day each, which is more than enough for my husband and I, plus any cheeses I want to make...also I can sell some or feed some to our pigs. The milk is as good as any fresh cows milk I've had. I keep my own buck for the breeding season, which (for me) is not a problem! I also had more of a problem keeping my cows fenced than my goats and the teats on the cows I milked were as small as...if not smaller...than my goats' teats!! But it's all a matter of preference. Some people are just not "goat" people or are just not "cow" people!!! Good luck!!

-- Marcia (HrMr@webtv.net), January 18, 2002.