I would love it if someone could help and give me some info on how to break my horses. Horse #1: I have a 3 year old stud Quarter horse/Arabian mix, Good boy, but needs manners and training. I cant get him gelded yet as he hasn't decended fully yet. I have gotten him to stop biting me. <:( Horse #2: A 9 month old Stud Pali paint. Pretty little fellow. I know I need to start training him now or he will be as bad as Gambler (Horse #1) Cody needs manner training as well, but I can do stuff with him like use a lead and put a sadle or pads on his back. I can even put my leg arm or other body parts over his back no trouble. I am trying to keep him that way. I can lift his feet to inspect or work on and such. But I dont need Cody getting big and wild on me. I have to keep the two seperated as Gambler is rather large and goes after Cody. I am afraid he will hurt him. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

-- Suzanne Poole (quasymoto@hotmail.com), January 19, 2002

Answers

No real advice, just be careful! My husband has broke many horses, but the one he broke last summer was un-real. He was a 5 year old stud, that had never been ridden! He had a time with him, being bitten, kicked, thrown off, stepped on, you name it! But I think he finally won the battle, and was more stubborn than the horse! So please do be careful!

-- Melissa (me@home.net), January 19, 2002.

Suzanne, I am not a horse expert just a horse lover. I have broke[hate that word] horses. I prefer the word gentled. First off at 3 yo should have been descended a long time ago. At 9 months you can geld the other colt also. I would have it down before the weather gets hot. Until they are gelded you shouldnt even try to have them turned out together. The older one could kill the younger. As far as training, round pen training works great. I am a huge fan of John Lyons methods. He has many videos and books out along with a monthly magazine. He has a website, I bellieve it is www.johnlyons.com. Another avenue that I stongly suggest is to hire a proffesional trainer. Have him work with the 3 yo and watch. You can incorporate some of his methods when your other is old enough. It comes down to time. The more time you spend the better. Also you have to be higher in the horses pecking order. That does not mean you have to beat them, it means you have to have them respect you. Watch as other horses are turned out together. Mimick that behavior. Good luck.

-- tracy (murfette@stargate.net), January 19, 2002.

Horse #1: I have a 3 year old stud Quarter horse/Arabian mix, Good boy, but needs manners and training. I cant get him gelded yet as he hasn't decended fully yet. I have gotten him to stop biting me. <:( Horse #2: A 9 month old Stud Pali paint. Pretty little fellow. I know I need to start training him now or he will be as bad as Gambler

Horse #1 may be cryptorchid (only one testicle will ever drop) and he'll have to have surgery to retrieve and remove the other testicle. This is a real possibility because at three he should have dropped by now. Have horse #2 gelded ASAP and then continue his training.

Do you have anyone to help you with the training of these horses?

Stacy in NY

-- Stacy (KincoraFarm@aol.com), January 19, 2002.

Horse #1 - get a vet to inspect him and do the necessary surgery to remove both testicles. If he's not fully descended by now, he won't ever.

I would suggest at this age that you send Horse #1 out to a professional trainer. But if you don't have the money to do that, then start with round pen training. Get ahold of Monty Roberts method of round pen training. Introduce saddle, bridle and blanket, and do everything one step at a time and make sure horse understands and can do each step before moving on the next step. Make sure that there is someone on the premises and within viewing distance of where you are working these horses, when you first attempt to mount and for at least the first few times you attempt to ride either horse. This is for your safety...if you get thrown and no one's around, you can die right there and no one would know unless you didn't show up for supper. I know you can get hurt at any time riding but the first few times are really critical.

Horse #2 - geld immediately, then round pen training. Teach both horses to drive if you can get access to a simple harness and longe lines. Horses which are driven learn the basic commands and learn to give their heads and respond to the bit without a rider and are easier to put under saddle than horses which aren't driven first (IMHO).

If you have never trained a horse before, is there a trainer in your area that you can swap work for in exchange for help with this rather substantial project? Stables are known for exchanging feeding, turn- out, mucking, tack cleaning, weekend feedings, etc. for 30 days training or 45 days training. I would investigate that if at all possible in your area.

Good luck,

-- Cindy (colawson@mindspring.com), January 19, 2002.

Suzanne, you don't say if you have ever trained a horse before or not. Is this your first attempt? I think Tracy is right, get a trainer for the 3 year old. Get both of them gelded, keep them apart until then. It sounds like you have the ground work done on the 9 month old. Have you started him on reining? This can be done from the ground. I can't think of anything to add that Tracy didn't already mention. Be careful and best of luck to you!

-- cowgirlone in OK (cowgirlone47@hotmail.com), January 19, 2002.

WOW! You definately have your hands full! I've become friends with a mare that I "rescued", (couldn't touch her, nevermind even put a halter on her-now my 10 yr old can ride her), and some racing studs, but never attempted green un-gelded ones in that age group! Working with a professional is good advice, especially if you're new to training.If you can't afford a pro, research training methods extensively and be very careful. Sometimes horses who have had their training neglected until that age will welcome a certain amount of training then go no further. They won't be mean, but know they're stronger and really don't have to do what you tell them, anything they do is a courtesy. I have a Morgan who was proffessionally trained to drive, ride, dressage, english, western, etc, but if he isn't in the mood, there's no changing his mind. He was abandoned in a field for 5 years after all that training. He knows he's bigger, so if he decides not to go where you want him to, he will run you over or back up into trees if you're on him. He's broken fencing and crossties several times if he chooses to. If he's happy, you can confine him at will. He is absolutely lovable otherwise, is gentle with kids feeding him in the pasture, etc and perfect on trail rides as long as there's another horse with him. 16 hands of old-style Morgan trying to bowl me over to reach the mare he's bonded to is a scary prospect! Forget loading him in a trailer, though a previous owner says he was trained to do it daily: he kicked my hubby good when he went behind him to encourage him in.

I've studied the Monty Roberts and John Lions' training methods and they do work. I can catch those racehorses the hubby can't and the biters in the barn don't even try to bite me(making seasoned trainers stumped when they dare me to aproach renowned biters), but with some horses there are limits. Your best bet(if you can't afford a pro) is to isolate the horse from other horses as much as possible while employing these methods. Even if they can see other horses, if you don't turn them out with them, you will be their only real social interaction. They will pay better attention to you and be more willing to please you. Another factor with studs is whether they've bred yet or not: if they haven't you're pretty OK, if they have, you're in trouble anytime a mare is near unless they have free access to field breeding, then they don't mind a bit of breathing room:)

Each horse is different, so a professional is the best advice, but if you can't afford it: be very careful, stand your ground as far as it's safe(as was mentioned by another poster about disciplining in the same way other horses would), research training methods, choosing the best for each horse, and spend alot of quality and quantity time with each horse. Aside from my kids, I've found nothing more rewarding than winning the cooperation of previously distrustful horses. That they would agree to allow me to harness their power is truly awe-inspiring!

I wish you many blessings in your endeavor!

-- Epona (crystalepona2000@yahoo.com), January 20, 2002.

Hi, I have experience with breaking horses. I agree that you would be wise to have them gelded. I have broke a couple of two year olds, and I have rode horses with bad manners. As far as manners go you should get a long line with a chain on it. You run the chain under the horses jaw. It may sound harsh but I asure you it doesn't hurt them it just gets thier attension. it works on a pressure point. But don't over do it. When the horse starts to misbehave you just give the line alittle jurk. I hope you find this informatoin useful. You shouldn't work the nine month old to much. He could develop leg problems. You can walk him and trot alittle but only 10 minutes or even a little less. Putting saddle pads on him is a good idea. It is important he be use to things on his back. I strongly suggest waiting till he is two before you start any extensive training.

-- Andrew (gndonley@hotmail.com), January 20, 2002.

Hi, Suzanne, Another option you might want to look at is Clicker training. My daughter is training her first horse who was 9 months old when we got him and pretty much unhandled. We couldn't even get near him or touch him. The only way we got him moved to our property was because he just followed him mom into the trailer. He's two now and has turned out to be a real sweet heart. He is a thoroughbred/Shire mix and is already quite large. She has used Clicker training with him and he has made really good progress. Since he is a draft mix and drafts take so long to mature, she is not rushing any training for riding, but does hope to start driving training soon. We just recently had access to a trailer to train him to load, and she accomplished it in less than an hour with the clicker training and without any tack. He was completely free to go in and out as he wanted. He is so comfortable with the trailer that now he wants to get in it whenever he's in the pasture where its parked. I have been amazed at how well she's has done with his training and he is so willing to work with her. He doesn't like to stop his training sessions. You can get some ideas about how it works on the website: clickryder.com. It is a really gentle and effective way to train a horse or other animals too. And its fun to do. There is no fighting or struggling with the horse. But you do need to be able to understand how a horse thinks and their behavior. As many others have said, please be careful though. Best of luck and if you should want to ask my daughter anything about the clicker training, you can email me and I will get the message to her. She would love to chat about what she has learned using this method.

-- Sherry S, N.Fl (natmatters@mail.istal.com), January 21, 2002.

Get a hold of Monte Roberts or John Lyons training methods. Don't use chains - no need for that. Discipline and boundaries can be provided without harshness. If you always provide resistance to a horse, he'll resist you. If you want a gentle, light mouthed horse be gentle and slow with the horse. You really need to know what your doing and professionals can help. Alot of pros will charge more to gentle a horse if someone has already tried to start them cuz then it takes them that much longer to correct bad habits.

-- horse whisperer (cowboy@rancho.net), January 22, 2002.

Have you felt for both testicles ? I thought we had the same problem with my 2 year old stud but turned out they where both there .I had the Amish break mine and they did a great job and it didnt cost much.I would never try it alone unless someone who knows is with you .

-- Patty {NY State} (fodfarms@hotmail.com), January 22, 2002.

first of all , your not going to "break him" you wouldnt want to , youre going to gentle him , first thing first , stall him , or get him in a corral, if the only time he gets out for "fun" is training time , you got half the battle won ,

then , spend time with him , constantly , the more used to his trainer , the better horse he will be ,

make your decision on gelding , now , and get it done, if he has undescended , get the surgery, so he is healed, you dont want pain to be associated with training,

and no ,in spite of what some say , its not too late for you to start the 3 yo, he needs constant attention , and the gelding to get done ASAP!, then you can work with him , while he heals ,

i like to start raw horses with boring them to death :), yeah i sound nice dont i

stand for me , i groom you , stand some more , and i halter you , stand , then i unhalter, then stand and i halter , then un halter and repeat , just that one thing , for a good week....then we walk in a round pen , with halter, then we stop , then turn , talk to him , and always exhude complete calm confidence , you know EXACTLY what you are doing , you cant train a horse without it ,

when you lead , make him mind, just by gently working with him, if everytime he breaks the imaginary line of being in front of you , you stop, he will get the idea , "my head needs to be by her shoulder"

then , you can start with verbal cues , every time you stop , and he stops , say whoa , then use verbal , right or left cues , or like plow man , and some riders , "gee" and "haw" i have certain speed cues , verbal , that i use for horse training , a fast(human) walk , is a simple, "faster" and , then trot is , that , "trot", and encouraging "come on", means good horse , keep going ...i believe in a lot of groundwork before saddle time ,

groundwork can be started with a 3 month horse , or a five year horse ,then , when you feel ground work is good, then you can be assured you have horses trust , you can introduce a snaffle bit bridle , then once its in , you can start with using it for your cues , the idea being , that if the horse is completely accustomed to ground work , flawlessly obeying about 90% of the time , you will have an easy smooth transition to riding

and introduce the saddle blanket and saddle , for a week , before you lean on it , of course , idealy you would have been resting weight (i e your arm , or for an older colt , your arm and some chest wt, and so on) on the horse from the time he or she was foaled... but it doesnt seem like your starting with that ......you may before you introduce the saddle , want to try with a "bare back" saddle , its a pad , with usually plastic stirrups, i use it to accustom more skittish horses to something on thier back , and moving around

i will be happy to help you out more with this , just drop me a note i have been gentling horses for 12 years Beth

-- Beth Van Stiphout (willosnake@hotmail.com), January 24, 2002.

Suzanne,

If you are not going to breed them, geld them. Then send them both out to trainers! If you can't handle the 3 year old now have a vet come out and tranquilize him and geld him, he will settle down alot gelded. Do you have any other horses with him? My studs go absoultly nuts if they are alone. Also, what kind of pen do you have the older one in? If it is too small for him to truly get a good run, that could be half of your problem. Also NEVER, NEVER work with the older one alone! Someone needs to be there or at least within eye and hearing distance, to be there if you need help. What kind of feed do you have the older one on? If it is to "hot" of a feed, it may be causeing most of the problems. Also, at the least go talk to someone with studs about their behaviour, studs act differently then mares and geldings and you need to compensate for that. Geld the little one and he will be fine, I wouldn't work him as hard as you are though, he is just a baby.

Good Luck

-- Montana Storm (mtstorm@usa.net), January 25, 2002.

Hi Suzanne,

I've a degree in Equine Management, have worked with several hundred horses in various situations, and have attended seminars of several popular trainers. I've posted information in the past on horse related issues, but no longer will because of the petty bickering.

If You would like any additional help, please feel free to e-mail. I'll do all I can to help.

Good Luck!!! Rand

-- Randle Gay (rangay@hotmail.com), January 26, 2002.

I think you should have them both gelded ! That means cutting their balls right ? Have them gelded and keep their balls in a jar !

-- Amanda (amanda_34_2@hotmail.com), April 27, 2002.