Week of January 20, 2002

greenspun.com : LUSENET : Diversity coalitions : One Thread

Week of January 20, 2002

-- Anonymous, January 19, 2002


I think I have something interesting here. In my bi-annual perusal of School Law Handbook,I find this. Consider it esp. in relation to Doan's requests for information(Phoenicia failure rates) that are not voted on by the Board in a duly constituted meeting. School Law p.47/ 2:72 ..".an individual board member has no greater right of access to public records than any other member of the public. Therefore, that board member would be able to access only that which is available under FOIL"..............Then, School Law p. 44..." Only existing records are subject to disclosure. An agency does not need to prepare a record solely for the purpose of responding to a FOIL." As Onteora does not keep MS records that separate students by their respective elementary schools,this record was prepared by Frank at the request of JD. My understanding of the implications here are pretty huge. It's high time Joe's private requests for info were publically revealed and voted on or denied except thru a Foil request. What do you think...especially Tom and Meg please.This is where I'm going with my next PBH unless there is good reason coming from you all not to. I think it appropriate to ask for Shaw's interpretation.If he disagrees . a petition to the Commisioner is appropriate. What other requests from Doan have occured in the last 30 days which might fit under this issue?I'm feelin' on a roll w/ this .Shoot me down if you can.

-- Anonymous, January 20, 2002

I think J. Doan made the request at a BOE meeting and it was an appropriate public request for information by a board member. My understanding is that Frank gave the information out to all the board members in their info packets.

The more obvious violation of this infraction is his obtaining un-FOILED records for the Eratt lease and giving them to Sam Mercer and Co. for a complaint to the commish against the district. This is what I have been moaning about for 6 months now. But it is too late for a complaint to be filed as you know I'm sure.

-- Anonymous, January 20, 2002

I think maureen's right, in that the request (made by Greg, as I recall) was for information that did not previously exist...As was explained, BOCES wanted extra money to put it together, so Frank did it by hand, taking his time as a district employee to do it...

So, although we can attack Greg for an impropoer request, we need to search to see if Doan has gotten away with other things in the past.

Jim's right in saying Doan improperly used his insider status to get info to people working against the District's interest. this should be repeated in letters to the editor and in our campaign...I think that if we can catch JD in a similar move, in a timely way, all these bad board behaviors can become part of a petition to show the pattern of behavior. T.

-- Anonymous, January 20, 2002

Regardless of who made the request for info, isn't the right of a board member to make a request for info at a public meeting without a FOIL??

-- Anonymous, January 20, 2002

Let me clarify my response...if the info is requested publically by the board member, and can be made public by determination of the public records officer, why wouldn't it be made available. Simply because a report must be made up by Frank isn't anything of consequence IMHO. The statue that Maureen refers to suggests that "An agency does not need to prepare a record solely for the purpose of responding to a FOIL". But it doesn't say it CAN"T prepare a record for a board member or a FOIL request. I think it may be considered nit picking but I'm open to more discusswion on the issue.

Of far greater importance, is the poor judgement by Doan amd Milman to make a unsubstantiated, personal interpretation of these records public, front-page news. I'm very surprised, and disappointed, there were no letters from Phoenicia parents in this weeks UCT regarding this issue.

Another similar bad judgement was for Milman to close schools early on Sept. 11 against the advice of Hal and Mills. Children were sent home without any notice except for a phone chain which worked poorly, at best, due to the earliness of the school year. Another case of BAD judgement overriding the expert judgement of our hired staff of professionals.

Perhaps these two issues can be tied together to demonstrate a pattern of poor BOE leadership and bad judgement.

-- Anonymous, January 20, 2002

Can anyone who has the UCT article in handf enter the some of the info into the Doan's deed's thread?? It will be useful in the futrue I would presume.

-- Anonymous, January 20, 2002

OK back home. here's where my interest lies. Altho Onteora School Board members have made frequent practice of requesting information w/out a vote of the Board..I have a suspicion that it does not make requests like that legal.Unless there is a school policy that I am not aware of..requests for information by individual board members should have no more standing than any individual's requests.Why would an individual board member have more power in a board meeting than in any other scenario. That Board member only has power as a 1/7 vote of a duly constituted Board.In addition..altho I do not have the jargon and Ed. Law numbers here now(I will) all members of the Board and the Public have a right to a full hearing of issues before the Bd., in order for the public to fully understand the reasons a Bd. makes the decisions it does. Private requests for information do not provide for that even if the request is made in public.Or so my opinion goes.Frankly it is only sensible for there to be checks and balances of this type in order to assure that district time and money is not wasted on individual Board members issues.It may be that the commissioner would find that as Onteora has made a historical practice of this Doan is at no particular fault but it may also be true that the practice would have to change. We have no idea what kinds of information Mr. Doan requests and that should not be the case.Just for example it was at JD's request that an Onteora employee spent nearly a month searching in district records to try and come up with incorporation papers with Indian" mentioned in them... in order to prove his accusations of illegality. Altho I understand it is too late to do anything about that now , it does have value to put a stop to this in the future.I'm not giving up on this yet, altho I understand I may be barking in the wind.

-- Anonymous, January 20, 2002

Maureen's right to go after this...it's still another example of Doan rogue board behavior...in the same league as water testing without authorization and getting the district to pay for it; abuse of board-member relations with Shaw; taking asphalt samples without authorization, etc. etc. etc...

Pile it on! Tobe

-- Anonymous, January 20, 2002

Have you been watching the JD Channel 3, Sam Mercer, television shows? Everytime I turn on the TV they're on again, and they seem to have enormous support, or else it's the same people calling in again and again.

-- Anonymous, January 20, 2002

Phoenicia Staff put together a letter and all signed. I expect it will be in the next paper & read at next board meeting. The impact of the article hit parents slower than I thought it should, but people are outraged and not happy with doan & millman. Also, phoenica teacher has compiled statistics and I'm checking Tuesday to make sure it all ends up in the "bad boys" laps. A personal note: Jeff is graduating 6th grade and transitioning to seventh "somewhere". There is not an existing program up at Jr.High for my developmentally delayed son. Rick, Kathy Hochman and I have meeting with Barbara Boyce next week to discuss what's possible. You see...inclusion means home school, least restrictive environment, be with friends, given the same chance all kids have...to pass or fail. We're also looking at a BOCES setting and out of district setting in Kingston School district. I mention all this because how the board treats barbara and uses the Special Ed Audit Report will impact how friendly and willing Onteora is concerning inclusion. Now that's all said...of course, what ever program serves Jeff best will be advocated for. So far, inclusion has served Jeff well and his typical peers well. Can the Jr. High handle it? Will majority school board support it? I worry about the programs in place that are inclusive and lifeskills. Is it easier in their minds and Shaw's mind to "ship 'em all out"? We're talking level of community evolvement here. Does our society take care of the weak? Hmmm. Didn't the Romans have a problem with this? I ramble. Just a little peek into my world. Love you all.

-- Anonymous, January 20, 2002

hey Francine nice to see you on here. When does the Sam show happen..I don't have tv but probably ought to find one and see what those curmudgeons are up to.

-- Anonymous, January 20, 2002

by the way ..it'd be cool to hear some of the more grandiose and outrageous accusations if you can stand it..

-- Anonymous, January 20, 2002

Maureen, I've got most of the Sam Mercer show w/Doan on tape (they orginially aired it around the beginning of January, and have been showing it on the weekends). Just give me a call if you want the tape, I'm more than happy to lend it/make you a copy.

-- Anonymous, January 20, 2002

Rachel is correct...It was the old show that keeps running. I have it on tape also (as does Hal's lawyer:-))...I guess they didn't like it when the public be heard supporting Hal was shown so often on Ch. 3......I guess I'll bring that back to the Channel for some more plays...plus the last Public be heard as well...plus the last meeting...

At the MLK Jr. gathering tonight in Woodfstock, Hal's lawyer, Michael Sussman (not Alana Sussman, but Michael)spoke about civil liberties and their erosion under Bush/Ashcroft, etc....as he told about the Gov't plan to listen in on lawyer-client conversations, he mentioned that he was "helping out Superintendent Rowe with a little problem, and would't THE DOAN just love to know what they were talking about?" I love the phrase, THE DOAN. Very descriptive. Sussman seems very smart and very committed...I think Doan's got a tiger by the tail...

It got quite a bit of applause from an audience, many others, I'm sure don't really know what he was talking about.

I saw Jane van de Bogart there, and she will be away on February 2nd, so we cannot meet at her house..next time... fun.


-- Anonymous, January 20, 2002

Just a reminder to check out Rachel's ammended letter in the letter to the editor thread...Bravo, Rachel.

Now I hope othgers will follow suit with appropriate letters...turn up the heat. Four Months to Go!!!

Can't wait to see it in the newspapers.


-- Anonymous, January 20, 2002

What's a MLK Jr. Gathering?

-- Anonymous, January 20, 2002

I'm thinking it's the Martin Luther King Jr. celebration in Woodstock, which took place today (BTW: I'm sorry I couldn't attend. Had to work).

What Tobe said. Check out my letter, and please give me your comments.

-- Anonymous, January 20, 2002

MLK Jr gathering= Maretin Luther King, Jr. annual event at Woodstock Community Center: packed house for most of the evening, although we had to leave a bit early...kudos to Lucia and COLOR, etc. who worked hard to make it a success. Tobe

-- Anonymous, January 21, 2002

check slogans thread and add your own...Tobe

-- Anonymous, January 21, 2002

Hi Francine-Don't worry, it's the same people calling the Sam Mercer Show all the time and even during the same show from we can discern.

-- Anonymous, January 22, 2002

today I gave three tapes to the Woodstock channel..Public be Heard from the night hal was supported (runs 45 minutes); Public be Heard from the last meeting (runs 21 minutes) and the complete last board meeting (4 hours and 20 minutes...snore).

Please see if they give an equivalent amount of play to the public be heard segments as they gave to sam/Joe...If not, feel free to complain to jeremy wilber's office.. tobe

-- Anonymous, January 22, 2002

If any live shows are scheduled with Sam Mercer we could arrange a party and have people call in to them. It is a ton of fun and leads to great improvisation...I transformed into several characters in front of the Carey's for one Sam Mercer episode. It was great fun for all!

-- Anonymous, January 23, 2002

Meg and I will be happy to host our next SOS meeting. Come one, come all, on Saturday February 2 at 10AM...bring a "nosh" if you want...I'll have coffee/tea etc. Let's try to meet for two - three hours and get a spring/election agenda going.

No need to RSVP (unless you want to)...just show up. 25 Lennox Avenue Glenford 657-2914

I will invite Marino, who is not on this list...anyone else ??

-- Anonymous, January 23, 2002

Sounds great! Thanks Tobe and Meg for being so gracious.

I just heard through the grapevine that the sale of the PO/Gen. store in West Shokan with Joe Doan did NOT happen and the closing is postponed. I heard it may have been some problem with the building inspector. Don't know any more details except that the sale is pending but did not happen yet.

-- Anonymous, January 23, 2002

"The Bush administration is planning to name as head of its AIDS advisory council a former congressman who regularly challenged the effectiveness of condoms as the government's central strategy for fighting AIDS."


-- Anonymous, January 24, 2002

Can't Doan do an engineering plan for the store???he he he.

Also, note the agenda on Monday contains a presentation by Dr Amy Albers about Special Ed...and more items about the softball field, Lawyer Shaw and possible conflict of interest...etc.Budget items to be discussed are buildings and grounds, physical ed and extra curricular activities...High School at 7PM (preceeded by an exec sesion at 6:15!)


-- Anonymous, January 24, 2002

Be sure to tell all your friends -




First organizational SOS meeting of the year to discuss the upcoming school board elections. Let's get rolling now on the big job we have ahead of us. Fundraising, public relations, fundraising, press releases, political strategies and more...did I mention fundraising? Think of it more as fun-raising! See you there!

!!!!! SATURDAY 10AM --- FEBRUARY 2, 2002 --- SOS MEETING !!!!!

-- Anonymous, January 25, 2002

Anyone think we (SOS) should sponsor an ad in the yearbook???Time is NOW, if we want to do it...this week... Costs are: $275 full page $175 half page $85 1/6th $50 1/12 $40 Business card.. Any thoughts? Tobe

-- Anonymous, January 25, 2002

Yes, let's do the $50 and take contributions here and now. Can anyone commit to any funds?? I'll kick in $10 and we're broke!

Now... how about the ad copy??

Support Onteora Schools - SOS "Focus on Education" Jim Sofranko President 657-2099

The only reason I put my name and number on it is to enable people to contact us if they wish. It doesn't need to be included if anyone feels uncomfortable with it. I'm open to any and all suggestions.

-- Anonymous, January 25, 2002

BTW-Do we know what date the yearbook is distributed??

-- Anonymous, January 25, 2002

Typical copy in yearbook includes congratulations to class of 2002, etc.etc. quotable quotes whatever. Generally non political. to me skip the name and telephone but stick with focus on ed...some appropriate quote? I'll do 10$ or whatever is required. Yrbook is usually quite late.Certainly after election.

-- Anonymous, January 25, 2002

Focus on Education SOS Support Onteora Schools no name...no phone number

Jim, will you handle this?

Mike Boms is the advisor.

I'll kick in $10, also... Tobe Check payable to Onteora Central School They need a layout in the correct size.

-- Anonymous, January 26, 2002

I'm ok for $10 for yearbook ad....

Looking forward to this meeting: is this the one that new people should attend, I mean certified new people, not open to the public...?

-- Anonymous, January 26, 2002

Is it still the "Tomahawk" or "Arrowhead" ?(I forget which one is Jr High, which is Sr.)

-- Anonymous, January 26, 2002

I met Valerie at the market. She hadn't been on the bb for a while, so didn't know about our upcoming meeting. I told her, and she said she'd be there, but I'm wondering if we should email everyone from last year to be sure they know......

-- Anonymous, January 26, 2002

I e-mailed Valerie but hadn't heard back.

I also saw Neil Eisenberg at the market and he is interested in attending.

Janet Nelson, Francine Xaviar, Susan Buckler, Irene Brody, and Morty Schiif need to be called as well as others. I haven't the time to do this yet as I have company this weekend. Anyone have a few minutes to help out?

-- Anonymous, January 26, 2002

Does anyone have a newspaper file or memory of the special ed situation in Kingston last year or the year before, when the Kingston District was forced (at great expense) to fix deficiencies in their Special Ed program? We are seeking hard facts to be ready for the Special Ed report on Monday night... Tobe

-- Anonymous, January 26, 2002

I emailed to Susan Buckler, janet nelson and Morty Schiff... invited them to the meeting. Tobe

-- Anonymous, January 26, 2002

A remionder: This is some of the old and current issues we need to remember... Please add to the list and post your additions so we can make sure this is up to date. Tobe

1 Year 2000 Budget failure: It is the Board's responsibility to put forth a budget...the Doan faction declined to make any budget changes and then in fact worked against the budget they proposed.

2 Brought back the mascot.

3 Revoked the anti-discrimination policy while slapping the face of the Office of Attorney General's Tanya Washington after all her hard work in the district & community .

4 Removed K Freeman and W Times as official papers

5 Refused to accept consent agenda leaving turmoil in Special Ed/ subs (date?)

6 Bid out bus routes, forcing into retirement valuable employees/ causing delays and shortened bus routes while giving district markedly decreased flexibility in transportation.

7 Hiring of Special Counsel at $150 hour with no cap in place. Removed Marino from the committee to oversee the special counsel.

8 Banning Superintendent Hal Rowe from some Executive Sessions.

9 Trying to force drug-sniffing dogs into the schools.

10 Board conduct and M Millman's lack of board leadership: Board members overstepping their authority/attempting to intimidate members of the staff. Doan's desire for badges. Overly lengthy meetings. Lack of meeting protocol. Improper executive sessions and not following the Open Meetings Law.

11 Community involvement in issues: CARE and board members.. CARE is a political organization that counts the five majority members as founding members and which passes out political materials on school grounds without seeking permission

12 Cameras in our school busses.

13 Delayed student rep sitting on board by 2 months, the reason given by JD and MM: "the board is too dysfunctional"

14 The trail of Onaje Benjamin: conflicting testimony was heard whether Fred Perry told Donna Boundy on election night: "Take your mascot and shove it up your ass"

15 JD and MM interrogated Kathy Aley (sp?) with disrespect, leading to her resignation from her post.

16 Spending for transportation clearly shows increased costs, and less flexibility. JD immediately proposes to eliminate all Onteora transportion.

17 The first special counsel report still not finalized. Despite this, JD and his majority initiate three new investigations, including special ed.

18 Sent letter of complaint to Hal Rowe, based on the still incomplete special counsel report, beginning the formal attempt to remove him from his position (Dr. Rowe has 2 years left on his contract. We need to begin searching for our new superintendent next year: who would want tostep into a situation like this?). In 1976, a similar process in an attempt (failed) to remove a superintendent cost Onteora more than $100,000.

19 The modular crisis: JD and his gang refused to renew lease or pay vendor, leading to potential lawsuit and sudden removal of 4 classrooms,two each at Bennett & Phoenicia.

Doan attacks

Personal attack on Special Ed and Pupil Personnel Services administrator and staff…Doan went so far as to fabricate a memo that was refuted by the group he claimed it came from.

Attacked teachers as a group, incorrectly saying they took off work for no reason and that they cost the district extra money for substitutes.

Attacked reporters and editors of local newspapers who cover the district.

Personal attacks on the superintendent over and over again.

Attacked contractors who work with the district claiming they are out to "screw" the district.

Personal attack on the District Transportation Supervisor. Doan's attacks on the district transportation system has left us with too few drivers and busses to make up the shortfall for sports trips now that private contractors are unable to meet our needs.

Personal attack on the district internal auditor, holding what has been termed an "inquisition," forcing her to leave the position after 26 years of loyal and thoughtful service to the district.

Attacked district treasurer.

Personal attack on the Principal of Phoenicia School.

Personal attack on the former assistant superintendent.

Personal attacks of former board members and members of the public.

Personal attack on providers of after-school and grant-supported non-athletic programs.

Personal attacks on present board members.

-- Anonymous, January 26, 2002

Another suggestion... If you don't subscribe to the email version of this list, and if you want to get each posting as soon as it's made, try it out. It's simple, and it works. Tobe

-- Anonymous, January 26, 2002

Regarding the yearbook, it's the Tomahawk, and comes out usually around mid-May.

-- Anonymous, January 27, 2002

here's another mouthful. Meg and I were talking yesterday about the possible need to hire yet another lawyer for the district if Shaw must recuse himself while he blames all on Hal and Marino.Here are Ed Law provisions I believe were ignored during the appointment of Shaw and Perelson.General Municipal Law 104-b requires " school district adopt internal policies and procedures governing procurement of professional services not subject to competetive bidding requirements"..."Except in limited circumstances, the policies and procedures must provide that alternative proposals or quotations will be secured" This law includes the following..."professional services(legal,medical,etc.)be procured in a manner so as to assure the prudent and economical use of public monies in the best interest of the taxpayer"..and to "guard against favoritism, improvidence,extravagence ,fraud and corruption" Get It? Either we have a policy regarding procurement of professional services and we are ignoring it.. or we do not and are breaking municipal law. In addition it appears to me that we are breaking a couple of laws re: the softball field. If the fence really costs 10000$ than competetive bidding is required..AND..Commish requires all proposed projects of 10000 or more to file plans and specifications with his office of Facilities Planning for a health and safety review. Anybody care?

-- Anonymous, January 28, 2002

Frreman article today is in the newspaper coverage thread.

-- Anonymous, January 29, 2002

yes, this is the meeting for all "certified" members...old and new...those who want to WORK...to come to... 10AM 25 lennox Avenue Glenford... directions available for all who need them 657-2914

-- Anonymous, January 29, 2002

First, before I forget, Rachel is interested in attending the meeting on Saturday but needs a ride from Wittenberg to the Carey's house. Curry mentioned he might be able to do it...if not, anyone from that direction please contact Rachel to arrange transportation.

I felt the meeting last night was too long and exhausting. Marino made good news regarding the Shaw investigation and had his ducks in a row. Although, I wish we could find a way to give him a signal that he is going on for too long in some of his statements. His lengthy dialogues may loose some credibility when they exceed 15 minutes. But he must be commended for his endurance and perserverance.

I must also state that I felt the Meg's persual of the $120 from Doan fell flat on it's face. We must be careful not to give Doan too much ammunition for being the "victim of attacks". The reason I feel this way is that this issue semed trite and petty. Here's Doan and company telling the district how great he is for the softball field and Meg's bringing up a this small (albeit valid) point about a slight infraction. I realize the history anmd accountability but I felt it was better off ended with Tobe rebuttal in the papers. Let it stop there. It seemed personal and I'm afraid how it may play out with the public. We must pick our fighyts wisely.

On the other hand the persuit of a plan for the softball field was simply perfect and Doan seemed to be squirming in his seat. There Meg, Marino and Tom seemed to provide a serious concern for the proper documentation. That is something that may be benficial for us. And it was forceful for seemingly good reason.

Anyway, a long, hard night. Thanks to all the BOE members for their stamina and endurance. Only a few more months before we put this giant to rest.

-- Anonymous, January 29, 2002

Yes, what Jim said. I'd love to attend the meeting, but being the lowly teenager I happen to be, I am without a vehicle. I live on Wittenberg Rd (right across from Mezzaluna, aka the Wittenberg Store), and it would be greatly appreciated.

-- Anonymous, January 29, 2002

Rachel..I'll be going right by your place to go on Sat. Shall I pick you up? You could bring the Sam Mercer tape. Say 9;50?

-- Anonymous, January 29, 2002

That sounds great, thanks a lot!

-- Anonymous, January 29, 2002

I think we made Ms. Albers, at the least, aggitated. Rick heard her say to Shaw Lawyer guy "I don't need this shit". I'm glad for that comment. Maybe she'll go back to her boss and complain Onteora parents and community are paying attention and not push overs. What do you think?

I have a friend, Lisa Paskoff, who is interested in BBS and possible Saturday meeting. She's an Occupational Therapist Assistant at Onteora and good friend. By the way, can BBS be opened on an Onteora computer? Lisa does not have set up at home...if it's OK she could at school or not and use someone elses internet.

-- Anonymous, January 29, 2002

Quite a meeting indeed.

For those who left before the bitter end (12:55AM!!)Doan tried his usual trick of introducing resolutions to be voted on...The final one was (as Marino predicted) to rescind the motion to have Shaw do the "investigations" and get a new lawyer involved...This one to be someone well outside the area, so no one could say he or she is tainted by being partial...Fortunately, this was stopped and the end result was that Marty Millman is to ask Shaw to reconsider if he'll take the job, with Marino pointing out that to start from scratch with a new lawyer is very, very expensive...Now the ball's in Shaw's court...is there a conflict or not? Does he want to do the job or not??

Sorry if Doan's improper use of district funds in water testing seems to Jim (and others??)to have backfired...Not sure it has, but the point needs to be driven home in the campaign that Doan continually acts as a rogue board member without authorization, doing what he wants, although he heavily criticizes those he thinks have acted outside the regulations.What's good for the goose, etc,.

Jim is right that as the election season progresses we need to pick our fights carefully and press the attack successfully.

I was interested to hear that Dr. Albers was not happy...poor baby...Trojan horse that she is...

Also loved the spirited way Melissa, Pat and Anne Winfield spoke out...and Barbara was wicked-great calling Rose's behavior to account.

If David Boyle is the best Doan can get to defend him in public be heard we are ahead of the game...what a know-nothing slime ball, known by all as the bully of bearsville (maybe he has to share that title with JD.)

Bravo to Tom, who was fabulous in the way he handled the engineering studies issues...Just the right tone and Joe was squirming...He has said at least twice on camera that he would do, or had the plans done..now it seems he has done nothing of the sort...Don't know if it's a State Ed requirement, but it would indeed be a good thing for the district to have a set of plans on file.

PS shouldn't we invite Marino to join this board?

I don't know Lisa Paskoff, but she should come to the meeting....get us all comfortable with her before inviting her on the board.

My .02 worth. Tobe

-- Anonymous, January 29, 2002

Emphatically NO to the bulletin board being opened on an Onteora computer at any time. I'm no techie whiz, but I assume it would be there in the history, and the password possibly retrievable by the right person. There could be a fire drill, and it might be left up on the screen for anyone to see, etc. Not a good idea at all. Even a public library terminal would not be a great idea.

-- Anonymous, January 29, 2002

I think the best thing to do about Dr. Albers is to find out what her work experince has been. We heard about the wealth of education she has received but where has she worked and what districts has she evaluated? Has all her consultant work been derived from districts associated from the Shaw law firm? Can anyone look into this??

Does it seem to anyone that it may be considered a conflict of interest to hire a consultant recommended by a law firm that has the most to gain from the ineveitiable litigation resulting from the consultants recommendations?? Why was Lambert, the special ed lawyer from the Shaw firm, there to witness her presentation?? This is starting to smell like collusion to me.

Let's find out what her background is and what experience she actually has in this field. Has she ever consulted with a district NOT in compliance and helped them achieve compliance? Has she worked for anyone other than Shaw??

The district of Kingston should be FOILED to find the results of the Shaw intervention in Special Ed. there. Was she involved there?? What do we really know about her??

-- Anonymous, January 29, 2002

ANother thing I have been thinking about is the National Alliance hate material left at the MLK gathering at the Bearsville theatre and in Rosendale. Is this the same group that sent the letter to Milman in support of the Onteora Indian? Didn't Lucia Ferrente make a long "good news" mention of this event at the BOE meeting preceeding MLK and the racist pamphletting? Anything smelling funny yet?

-- Anonymous, January 30, 2002

We knew Joe would have a party w/ the 128 dollar ?...the point that needs to be made (as Tobe said) is rogue board members acting w/out board authority are a threat to good bizniz practices.Of course they also have to attack about the softball field ,that too is inevitable..but the answer is the same.I strongly suspect that JD might not mind seeing the softball field un usable and use it as a battering ram in the election.By the way it's painfully similar to Shandaken sports group drama where use of soccer fields done by volunteer labor and community "spirit", ended up in court because nobody bothered to follow the rules.When you're a volunteer there are no rules right? The last frontier.I thought some of Doan's speechifying at the end of the night was pretty revealing..especially his brutalizing commentary to Marino and Meg and Tobe.Did you pick up on his sermonizing about being RIGHT???!!!re: modular rentals?And how much fun he was having getting away with it as the president of the Onteora Boeducation sits there, agape.I left in the middle of Georgianna's letter. I mean if it was on late night tv set somewhere in Alasksa we'd be laughing.So no vote happened on Joe's motion to direct Hal to implement Ms. Alpert's new plan?That was the intent I believe..Right before Rose's mind numbing letter( sorry Jessica.)As Bette Nitzsky said to me after Ms.Alpers report.."I don't think she sold the car.".Chuck's remarks were a nice surprise and quite strong.That's the place to go. Gossip has 33,000 attached to that report. I assured two people thatit could not be true but then I got worried.I too was curious about Shaw's Spec.Ed lawyer there to take notes for Ms.Albers. Seems very cozy and unprofessional.I was at my usual lookout in the back of the room and watched Reading Recovery Teachers and Laurie C. descend upon Ms. Albers.Clearly they felt misrepresented in the report and were not shy in sharing that. Ms.A tried to blame it on BBoyce for not providing materials but it didn't fly.I would say teachers and even administrators are being quite bold about the limitations of BOE status quo.Wonder how many votes that gets us. .. ..I'm curious how Shaw will respond..

-- Anonymous, January 30, 2002

Jim, I recall that Charles Yow had a theory that it was National Alliance members in local prisons deciding to send the letters to "get" him in particular. But that never felt right to me, and I felt the letters were too local in feeling and content.

Yes, Lucia mentioned the event at the BOE meeting good news, but the Don Byron concert in Rosendale which was also leafletted was not mentioned there. Both did get a fair amount of local coverage, and would have been logical places for scum like that to target.

I was very disturbed to read that the Woodstock police chief was unaware of the National Alliance presence -- isn't the persistent rumor that a chapter is located in Veteran?

Freeman article on the ball field added to the newspaper section

-- Anonymous, January 30, 2002

Boards of education are corporate bodies that may only act upon a majority vote of the entire board (Education Law ''1601, 1701, and 2501; General Construction Law '41). Insubordination is defined as the "willful or intentional disregard of lawful and reasonable instructions of the employer" (Black's Law Dictionary 720, rev. 5th ed., 1979; see also, Corrigan v. E.M.P. Producing Corp., 179 AD 810 [1917]; Boyle v. Petrie Stores Corp., 136 Misc.2d 380 [1987]). The issue in charge no. 28 is whether the directive given by the board president was a "lawful and reasonable instruction of the employer." I find that it was not. As noted in an earlier Commissioner's decision, "[t]he Superintendent of schools, as well as all other employees of the school district, is not subject to the direction or order of any individual member of the board. Whatever direction is given must be given by the board" (Appeal of Bruno, 4 Ed Dept Rep 14 [1964]; citing, Coughlin v. Cowan, 21 Misc.2d 667). Clearly then, individual board members do not have the authority to direct the actions of district employees. Petitioner believes that respondent should be dismissed for his alleged insubordination, and cites Appeal of DeLee (52 St Dept Rep 47) in support of its contention that respondent was insubordinate when he failed to follow the directive of the board president. I find that Appeal of DeLee is not dispositive. Unlike the instant matter, the school district in Appeal of DeLee was governed by a sole trustee, who unquestionably, had the authority to direct the actions of a school district employee. Failure to do so is properly considered insubordination. Here, however, the record is completely devoid of any evidence suggesting that the board president had specific authority to direct the petitioner to act. Without such authority, respondent cannot be guilty of insubordination (See, e.g., Boyle v. Petrie Stores Corp., supra). Accordingly, I will substitute my judgment for that of the panel and find respondent not guilty of charge 28 (Panel Decision pp. 65 and 69).

-- Anonymous, January 30, 2002

Just in case I missed anyone, this is a copy of the email I sent out about the hurry up board meeting for tomorrow... Tobe

We just received word that Joe Doan has called an Onteora Special Board Meeting to be held TOMORROW - Thursday at 7PM at the high school. The agenda is to rescind the hiring of the Shaw law firm to run the latest investigations. Shaw has again declined to do the work after being asked if he would reconsider his prior decision to not take on the work. The plan is to now hire a new law firm from southern Westchester County to take up the 6 latest Doan investigations.

We fear that they are planning to hold this meeting even if not all board members or the public can attend and in the face of an oncoming major ice/snow storm. Board practice has always been to cancel non-emergency meetings on days that school is canceled. In the last two snowstorms, they canceled both scheduled meetings. "The Doan" appears to be in a big rush.

In the latest revised agenda, Marty Millman has eliminated "public be heard." Easy to do whatever they want when there are no people and no voices!

If you object to holding a non emergency public Board of Education meeting in a predicted major ice/snow storm and from excluding the public from commenting, call, write or fax board president Marty Millman at:

phone at work: 688-2215 or 688-7469 (at the Pharmacy) phone at home: 254-5537 fax: at home 254-6064 fax at office: 688-2917 email to mmpilotrx@aol.com

It's important for Millman to feel public pressure from MANY people.

Thanks... Tobe

-- Anonymous, January 30, 2002

I just called the superintendent's office, the man who answered said that district policy is that if there is a snow day, there won't be a meeting. But yes, Marty has asked for no provisions for "public be heard."

-- Anonymous, January 30, 2002

Just had an interesting chat w/Neil (E)?Isenberg at the Bmarket. He's considering a run for the Bd.Didn't realize who he was til than, but liked his letters in the local rags.He's planning on being there Sat.am........ I wonder why the' procurement of professional services policy 'does not apply to hiring of a new law firm.? No quotes, no written rationale for not accepting the lowest bidder?.Tobe forgive me please please look up that procurement policy again and say if anything matters. Do we think it will cost more than 10,000 to answer these ???? of Joe's? if so do we not have to abide by that policy?Wasn't the cap on Shaw's first round of questioning 12,000?. and He'd "figured how they had probably spent about all of it."How could a law firm give Onteora any kind of estimate of cost of services in 48 hours?I must have too much time on my hands, huh?

-- Anonymous, January 30, 2002

The District procurement policy is a bit confusing... In one place it says,

Under Public Works Projects/Contracts

$100-$3000 Documented telephone quotes from at least three (3) separate vendors, if available. $3000, - $20,000 Formal written quotes from at least three (3) separate vendors, if available.

etc. etc.

Now the question is if this clause covers lawyers???...which seems doubtful...it appears this was meant to be talking about construction stuff, since later it says: Professional and Consulting Services Pursuant to the requirements of Section 104-b of the General Municipal Law, when retaining professional and/or consulting services, the following shall be considered in the decision making: 1. Special knowledge or expertise 2. Quality of services 3. Cost of services.

No mention of three bids, etc...but maybe the two DO go together...It'll take a more of a legal mind than mine!

Seems we don't even have a cost estimate in hand... Tobe

-- Anonymous, January 30, 2002

Thanks alot Tobe, I knew it was confusing. It is General Municipal Law 104-b that REQUIRES districts to have a policy which describes the hiring of professional services.It is a deep wade into paperwork to figure out the real law but the intent of the law is very clear. I am tempted to call John Donaghues office to get his opinion on this and the laws re:'rogue' board members. I am suspicious we really have something there. I can't imagine what it would cost to pay JohnD's firm to file this petition but I'd like to find out.This is about clarifying the rules Board members must play by and apparently the only way to do that in this scenario is to petition the Commish.W/out policies that clearly define a board members role, communities rely on Board presidents to have control and understanding of the issues. NOT HERE. No school today right?

-- Anonymous, January 31, 2002

Yahoo! A day off to catch up on my life...mostly the laundry:) I am happy to make phone calls to other district parents and contacts to find out more about Albers and once again Shaw. I'm curious how much she had to do with Kingston and New Paltz. My feeling about the rushed attempt for board meeting tonight: stupid, stupid and stupid! It would be obvious what The Doan was up to and look bad on him...and Marty. Besides, Marty has to dig out from a remote spot in bad weather...I bet he didn't like the idea. Just projecting.

-- Anonymous, January 31, 2002

Alison reports that the Middle School yearbook staff have unanimously voted to not have the BOE members' pictures in their yearbook. I don't think it's a political decision, though.

-- Anonymous, January 31, 2002

I had an interesting conversation with a licensed and registered architect in New Paltz today. He was interested in The Doan's status as a licensed but unregistered professional in his field. The professional organizations, of which he is active, are trying to standardize the field and encourage all to be registered.

What he said was that licensing of an architect or engineer is a lifetime achievment and you have that with you forever without any upgrading or fees thoughout the country. BUT registering is a state by state recognition done yearly or biyearly (although some states have a reciprocity to tranfer registrations). It is required that a professional in any of these fields is registered to legally perform work in those states.

That said though, many professionals in the field don't register because they are too cheap and /or anti-gov. fees. It costs about $600 for 2 years. Our friend Doan seems to fit all the above criteria. The legal reaction from the state is only a simple slap on the wrist. He said that a licensed engineer is required to be registered but many put their stamps on documents without the registration and nobody ever checks until a controversy comes up.

He also suggested that the higher public profile the project is, that the more the need is to go by the book and hire licensed and registered engineers. Therefore what Tobe has so adequately researched is correct but the practical applications vary. Until someone brings it up it usually never gets noticed.

Can't wait for The Doan to submit the plans for the softball field. My friend suggested it was inappropriate to even offer his services.

-- Anonymous, January 31, 2002

I forgot, the other issue that no one asked about Doan, the great engineer, ...what type of engineer is Doan professionally? There are structural engineers, electrical engineers...what are Doan's qualifications??

I'm all for getting a train engineer hat for Doan when the timng is appropriate. Perhaps after he loses the election.

Another bug I would like to place in everyone's ear is that the BOE vote is on May 21, 2002. Immediately after that vote, that night, the seat of Rose's gets filled (Although I should think that Rose's seat is presently quite filled). That means the majority changes THAT night if we win the seat. Just a thought.

-- Anonymous, January 31, 2002

I suggest that Doan will never make available any plans for the softball field(even though he has both promised them and said he had them ready...then denied having them) and certainly he'll never sign and put a seal on them as a professional engineer. I also suggest it was a sham when he said he would provide the free enfgineering...it was a way to get the job started, and he knew it could never be done for $10,000, or for $15,000. When comparable (maybe larger) baseball fields go for $75,000, why did he feel $10,000 would do it?

On the matter of his registration, I would add that my research shows Jim's friend to be right...a slap on the wrist is all the state will offer, but we should be VERY CAREFUL NOT TO LET DOAN KNOW that we know...and perhaps at the right time the court of public opinion will deal more harshly with Doan when the public finds out...Please refrain from mentioning this on line or off...careful..."Loose lips, etc." Tobe

-- Anonymous, January 31, 2002

I happen to know that more people than us know about this and we may not want to wait too long to expose the Doan Deed. Of course, we must make the timing right. But if the cat's out then let's bring him in.

-- Anonymous, January 31, 2002

tell us more...do people think he's unlicensed? or unregistered? How do you think they know this? Maybe you can tell us more on saturday?? Tobe

-- Anonymous, January 31, 2002

I don't feel comfortable telling where I heard this info but I was surprised when I heard it.

-- Anonymous, February 01, 2002

Well sorry guys but here I go again...I am mystified why the doan engineer registration or not/ is viewed as so useful to us.To me it is VERY suspect as a viable platform of attack in the community,people will see it as silly.As we all know, we cannot attack the softball field, that is instsnt death...we must be talking about a board acting completely w/out controls, and breaking laws that matter!Every time JD has an unauthorized conversation with Shaw or makes an unlawful request of an employee in this district he is breaking the law.The devil is in how little can be done about it..For me,the value is in big issues..if we chase the water test and the engineering hat too far,we look the fools.

-- Anonymous, February 01, 2002

Focus on.....tomorrow's meeting

Probably gonna be a big crowd, hopefully all us veterans from last year plus a bunch of new folks. Here's my idea of agenda:

1 Assign jobs,especially the less fun ones like fund raising. We should be doing everything we did so successfully last year plus even more!

2 Get the candidate selection process going ASAP! Marino is our golden boy, he is brilliant and well known, but our other two candidates must begin immediately to step up and make themselves known. Let's get this done quickly so we have the longest time to run our campaign.

3 Having the fun I had last year, I'd like to continue to travel the low road: anybody else want to take this trip?

4 I think we'll win big, but not without difficulty. JD will use his softball field effectively to promote his image, and we need to be careful here, especially when the games begin at Doan Diamond. Happily, his path of destructiveness is everywhere, so there's plenty of other stuff to deal with.



-- Anonymous, February 01, 2002

RE: The softball field, I will share additional details with all at the meeting tomorrow. However, What we will be concentrating on is not the field itself, but the untenable situation we have been put in with SED with respect to Bidding laws, Municipal Laws, OCS Policy etc. It seems that since we have violated these laws and the bidding thresholds, we must now go back and recreate the Plans and Specs and file with SED. This will require an Engineer's stamp and since it is common knowledge that The Doan designed and administered the project it will have to be Doan's stamp that accompanies the prints. Oh and one minor consideration: a capital project of this size requires voter approval. (We are talking aggregate total here) This is no longer a petty issue, especially when we are involved in projects like Bennett and roof repair and need SED cooperation. I see this becoming Diamond Doans Folly. Tom

-- Anonymous, February 01, 2002

hey if we now have at large voting ...who fills Roses seat? ?? no butt jokes.

-- Anonymous, February 01, 2002

Maureen is right that we need to concentrate on Doan's "recklessness" and "lawlessness." If he is in fact not allowed to do engineering in NY State, and if in fact he offers to do engineering, and if he actually does engineering, the importance is not the softball field, or any privat clients he may have engineereed for, but the continued flouting of the law.

So, we need a complete list of board regulations/policies, or customs that Doan has violated...I believe he has been pretty clever and we'll find little to pin on him here other than "poor judgment",and improper (but not "illegal") actions. I may be wrong...Maureen,or anyone else, do you have a list of such actions that make a compelling list?

As far as the election goes, I believe that the highest vote-getter fills the vacancy that Rose was appointed to fill...That is, unless the highest vote-getter is Marino, since he continues to sit until July...so it may be the second highest vote-getter. T.

-- Anonymous, February 01, 2002

If Doan or Rose lose in May do you think they would run in July for Marino's seat? When will we be safe! I spoke to a friend in Kingston School district and her memory is that Shaw was in their district during a time when mandates were blatantly not being met and programs rearranged. Parents got in touch with the NYS Special Eduction Regional Associate at that time. He met with parents, helped them create a paper trail that lead to State Ed who jumped on Kingston School district for being out of compliance. The rest you know. I'm waiting for the return call from the current Regional Associate, Nancy Oskow. I'll find out how she can help us and if she knows anything about Shaw and Albers. Meg was great pointing out Kingston's mistakes. Chuck was great challenging the fiscal promise. I'm looking forward to tomorrow...

-- Anonymous, February 01, 2002

Sorry for the confusion...all three seats are up for election. The winner who is NOT an incumbent fills Rose's seat. Because she was filling in for an unexpired term, she is replaced immediately if she loses... Marino and The Doan cannot fill that seat. Their seats are re-filled at the usual time, in July.

Tobe Great that you are on the details of the Kingston situation.

See you all tomorrow. 25 Lennox Avenue Glenford...Park along downhill side and do NOT block the driveway across the street. Thanks.

-- Anonymous, February 01, 2002

Let me try an attempt at explaining what I beleive is the answer to the outcome of the vote as I understand it to be. Marino, Doan and Rose are all up for reelection on May 21. Rose's seat is a filled position due to the resignation of Vanacore. Therefore her seat is filled immediately after the election, that night, in fact. The incumbants who win are starting their terms on the July date. So the highest vote getter who is not an incumbant will fill Rose's seat the night of the election. Let's say Marino is the highest vote getter, followed by Kathy Hochman and then Rose. Kathy Hochman will take Rose's seat that night and Rose and Marino will start their terms in July. This means that Rose will be off the board for 2 months while Kathy fills her seat and Marino remains on the board. Then Rose returns in July. Does that sound correct??

-- Anonymous, February 01, 2002

it would be useful to ssk the above questions to somebody legal.Are you proposing if Marino won,kHochman got second highest vote count,Rose gets third, then Hochman goes to Roses seat?nah.Is Rose an incumbent?Great, enthusiastic meeting everybody..thanks to Tobe and Meg..I notice we didn't identify a location for the mtg. on the 16. or did I miss that?

-- Anonymous, February 02, 2002

Location to be announced.

-- Anonymous, February 02, 2002

Location is up for discussion. I would like a more formal setting like the Olive library. Anyone have time to make inquiries this week for the Feb 16th date?

-- Anonymous, February 03, 2002

I believe we should ask the three potential candidates to be on this BBS...for whatever reason, Marino, Neil and Kathy are not here, and I believe we should immediately ask them in...Any comments? If this is agreed on, can Jim please send them the info needed? I have Marino's email, which was changed recently... Tobe

-- Anonymous, February 03, 2002

Did anyone happen to tape the david Boyle watchdog review show on Chaannle Three last night. We missed it and I heard he was on a rant and rave about how great JD is and how meticulous is his research! Would love to see a copy and have it for the archives if available. Thanks, Tobe

-- Anonymous, February 03, 2002

I will ask them to be on the bbs. Please forward Marino's current address to me. Thanks.

-- Anonymous, February 03, 2002

Thanks to Rachel I saw the Joe Doan Sam Mercer show that has been playing on 3tv.I must say it amazes me to listen to these guys completely twist the truth (or just outright lie?)The allusion to Curry being in Hal's pocket is pretty funny...and Doan's absolutely clear expression 0f the Need to remove the superintendant..by whatever was required..or something close to that.I'll get it.I want to clearly understand the removal process. Can anyone help? I understand the role of the administrator's contract..what about the gray area created by contract negotiations?I understand that there is some agreement re: protracted contract negotiations and unions are protected by their most recent contract"??Making sense?

-- Anonymous, February 03, 2002

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