Hello everyone. I'm new to this forum.

I'm in St. James, Missouri, which is halfway between Cuba and Rolla.

I'm trying to start a garden with the layering method from the book, Lasagna Gardening. In seeking more ingredients for the separate layers, a coworker at Boys & Girls Town of Missouri told me that there is an old sawmill not far from me with a huge outdoor pile of sawdust that has been accumulating and sitting there for 20 years. He says it's black.

I've seen this large, black pile of what looks like dirt and now my coworker says it's free for the hauling.

Is this outdoor sawdust pile composted to the point that it is safe to use directly in garden soil, or does it need further composting with nitrogenous materials?

-- Robert J. Addison (FarmerbobMO@netscape.com), January 20, 2002

Answers

see if you can get it for free,, and look at it,,worst case,,it would need nitrogen

-- Stan (sopal@net-port.com), January 20, 2002.

Robert, I would definately look into it. The blackness might be a mildew of some sort, and in that case, I might say don't bother handling it if you can find something better. It is probably just wood breaking down, and in that case may rob nitrogen from your lasagne beds if mixed with soils your happy with. My suggestion would be, like with Stan, see if it's free. If it is, then put it at the bottom of your new beds, so you don't have to worry about it, and it will add to your water retention considerably. Hope that helps.

-- roberto pokachinni (pokachinni@yahoo.com), January 20, 2002.

If that sawdust is really 20 years (will be black or very dark) it is excellent for your garden -- no downside whatsoever. Good substitute for peat moss -- will condition the soil. Wish we had a nearby source for it! It is fresh sawdust that takes a long time to break down. We have to travel 60 miles and pay at least $16/cubic yard. Lucky you, Robert!!

-- HV (veggie@ourplace.com), January 20, 2002.

I agree with the others with the exception that I think mixing into the upper layers would be best because that's where the oxygen needed by the microbes that digest it will bemost plentiful.

-- Thumper (slrldr@yahoo.com), January 20, 2002.

The reasoning behind my suggestion of having it on the bottom of the beds is that it will eventually break down, and will pose no danger to the upper layers where most of the veggie roots will be needing nitrogen. I agree with Thumper that the top of the pile is where the oxygen will help break it down, but the worms will do the job at the bottom, along with the heat, and moisture of the piled lasagne bed. Try an experiment with both. By the sounds of the black soil-like sawdust, I don't think you have to worry anyway. My statement was erring on the side of caution. If you find upon close inspection that it is fully composted soil-like matterial, there is no reason why you should hesitate to use it. If so, and it is free (and you don't have to spend too much money hauling it) you'd have the envy of more than HV. Here's fingers crossed for you...

-- roberto pokachinni (pokachinni@yahoo.com), January 21, 2002.

I've just found this site- it's great. Lucky you Bob! I have used sawdust from Western Australian hardwoods, and the older the better, but it will rip the nitrogen out if it's fresh (which is fine for our native plants) Can someone please tell me where you can buy the book "Lasagne Gardening"? It sounds facinating. My son and daughter-in-law are starting a permaculture vegetable garden and any handy hints will be appreciated.

-- Chris (bellange@comswest.net.au), January 21, 2002.

My only concern is what kind of wood it came from originally. If there is CCA-treated (the green pressure treated stuff) wood in there then it shouldn't be used. This stuff is toxic and shouldn't be used, especially for things you're going to eat. It's also toxic to the insects and other creatures in the soil (that's why it's made - to keep the bugs from eating the wood and rotting it). Not only would it kill insects that would eat your plants, it also would kill all the beneficial insects and likely all the worms in the soil.

If you can find out and if there's no CCA stuff in there, then go ahead, it'll be great. Otherwise, I'd pass on it.

For more info on CCA wood check out www.organicgardening.com.

Russ

-- (imashortguy@hotmail.com), January 21, 2002.

Lumber is not pressure treated until AFTER its sawn but thats not to say it shouldn't be researched some. From what I understand Black Walnut sawdust would not be good for the garden.

-- john (natlivent@pcpros.net), January 21, 2002.

The sawdust should be excellant. The only potential problem I see is the size of the pile and how long it has sat untouched. Sawdust in piles larger than eight feet can have anerobic bacteria in them. The anerobic bacteria are not the problem but the toxins they produce can be deadly to veggies.We use alot of composted sawdust and woodchips in the nursery but we never let the anerobic bacteria get going. All the composting is done by aeobic bacteria hence the reason we are always told to turn your compost. You should also look out for soluble salt buildup. I would get a sample and have a soil test done on it before putting alot of work into hauling etc. The stuff on the outer edges should be ok but deeper in I WOULD LOOK OUT.

-- John Weis (John.Weis@Baileynursery.com), January 21, 2002.