Arafat's Suicide Mission : LUSENET : Freedom! self reliance : One Thread

It seems like Arafat has reached the end of his rope. He has said "We are all in rapid motion towards laying down our lives in the sacred cause". This sounds a little scary to me. It sounds like bin Laden all over again. Are we going to be in another war soon?

To read the entire story go to:

Talk to you later.

-- Bob in WI (, January 22, 2002


I have to chuckle about Arafat..many of the young folks here in the USA actually think he is some sort of statesman because he has successfully reinvented himself in the last 20 years..he is probably the #1 example of a true terrorist....this guy was responsible for the protraction of violence in the Middle east for years and years.One of the biggest mistakes anybody made was giving him any ligitimate title in the first place.What a rogue! I have a soft spot in my heart for the REAL Palestinian people..used to work with several who were here on medical visas in the university where I taught. It's quite a dilemma; as a Palestinian, do you roll over and be a second class citizen to a foreign power who took your country by force or do you continue what appears to be a lost cause, sacrificing the blood of your children on the altar of hope for a new Palestine someday? On the other hand, you have the Israelis who are now in their 20s..all they know is that Israel IS....and they feel just as passionately for their right to exist. How terribly sad for all of them because there are certainly no winners here. I have zero respect for Arafat..he is still a terrorist in my book and will always be. You cannot dialogue with a terrorist fanatic, regardless of what title he now holds.Palestine needs a new voice of reason, or I am afraid that there will be no Palestine in the near future, just an expanded Israel.

-- lesley (, January 22, 2002.

I must disagree with the previous poster that Palestinian land was taken from Palestinans by force. I will give a little history to explain myself. Hopefully I will be able to sipel many myths propagated by the libberal pro palestine media. I am not jewish but have spent nearly a month there and havestudied a great deal (many thousands of hours) on the history and polity of the Israeli people. I have friends that live in Jerusalem and other parts of Israel and have and arabic friend as well.

Let me atart by saying that there never has been on the face of the earth an ethic group of people called the Palestinians. It is at term coined in the 20 th century to label a group of people who migrated in the area prior to the 2oth century and in the earlyu part. In fact most of the state of israel was sparcely populated due to the horrible condition that the ladn was in. Prior to the 20 th century they were merely ARABS. In fact Trans_jordan was created as a home for the displaced arabs as Israel was being created. It is now called Jordan. And as far as taking theri contry by force no such thing occured they were accord the same rights of citizenship as any jew living in the land and if you go to some of the old history books from that era ( before pc THinking) you will see members in the Isreali Parliment that area distinctly atrabic. The Only reason for the creation of a palestinian state to be created is to provide a way to push Israel into the sea which has been Arafat's stated goal since day one and he has not retreated form that goal having made that statement in recent months. Let' me ask anyone who has sympathy for the palestinians(only those who send their children to die etc. not normal people like some are as I am aware of a limited number of peaceable people in that community. WHy would I need to have sympathy for a person who would send their 6 yr old child to go fight my war. who would send their sons to blow up children going to school, who would murder your friends and relatives at your daughters barmitzah (i.e 13 birthday party). WHO ARE SWORN ENEMIES OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. IF they came here and killed your children, destroyed the pece and civility of your country would you not expect your country to avenge and defend your people that is al Israel is doing. I REREAD THE PREVIOS POSTER AND REALIZE I MAY HAVE WENT OFF ON A RABBIT TRAIL SORRY> ANyway I could go further but I wont EXcept to say THAt Arafat is and always will be a TERRORIST.

-- Daryl in tn (, January 22, 2002.

Sorry for my many typing errors. I can type fast and accuratly but not both at the same time.

-- Daryl in tn (, January 22, 2002.

Hello Bob, Who own the land first? Was it right for the United Nations to give the land back of the Jews. Take another look at history and try to discover where the Jews actually came from. There was never a Jewish nation. The word Jew is from the word Judea. They too were nomadic and never really settle anywhere until the UN came along.

1947 was a memoriable day for both nations. One was given a whole country and the other was driven back from its homeland and was force to share it with the Jews.

With all that in mind, I can certainly understand the reasons for the hatred that has been created between them. It would be the same way if we were ORDERED to give back the land to our Native American Indians. We too would be living in a war zone.

Lets not call fighting for your homeland TERRORISM. Lets call it retaliation to this fact. Terrorism has seem to become a cliche all around the world now. I think that the struggle that both peoples have had to endure are acts of war that will continue until only ONE of the nations win back the land that was theirs.

The sad thing is that the United States backs the Isereal nation, but that certainly does not make the Jew the good guys. It just enforces the ownership of the land with violence. America has an obligation to back up the United Nations decision.

We try to live in peace with both nations but, how can we when we supply one side with arms, training, and financial backing? Of course the other side is going to feel that we are the enemy since we are backing the theives that took their land away.

I would not be surprised if the root of TERRORISM on our soil was not connected to this as well.



-- (, January 22, 2002.

TO EARNEST Depending on if you believe in the bible the first recorded land contract regarding the state of Israel was about 4000 BC between GOd and Abraham. Furthermore the jewish people have the benefit of being able to trace their linage through meticulous means and have done so with extreme accuracey for several thousand years. To say otherwise would be outright antisemitism because these statements are based in fact. As my previous post states go back to any history book prior to the modern state of Israel's creation and you will not find the term palestinian because there was no such thing. The were arabs. And again if you read the bible It states in Ezekial that at the time of the end that God would restore the nation of Israel brind dry dead bones back to life and planting them in their land. Unlike humans when god makes an oath he will not back out of it. TO say that their never was a jewish nation is to deny the history books of the roman empire of the egyptian empire of the babylonian empire all of which archeologist have been able to find references to the nation of Israel in their excavations. What I found in your respons was an attitude of anti semetism and very poor knowledge of the facts of history (no offence intended. You were right about one thing (Sort of) The hewbrew people were not called jews until after the babylonian captivity and the breakup of the northern kingdom of Israel THe southern kingdom being Known as judah. The Northern Kingdom was however called Israel and went into captivity for some time. IF you doubt any of my facts or dispute what I say I can back it up with both scriptural and Securlar Historical records. God himself stated that Israel was the apple of Gods eye and that he would curse those that cursed Israel and Bless those that Bless Israel. Again I am not Jewish but I am not going to think that I can poke God in the Eye and go away unskathed. Furthermore if you believe in Jesus guess what he was a JEW.

-- Daryl in tn (, January 22, 2002.

Do you find it to be impossible for a person to empathize with both the Palestinians, or if you only recognize them as "Arabs", so be well as the Israeles? Why is it so seemingly important to choose sides in such a complicated issue? I, personally, as I said before, feel quite badly for all of those involved in the on-going Middle East bloodshed. Does it make a difference if the Israeli military kills a child who is throwing rocks or an "Arab" kills a teen-ager on a bus? Both were children who expected to live a long life. Does it make a difference if a military bomb kills a baby in a crib or if a gunman kills one in a shopping cart???They are both innocents who are very dead aren't they? Both sides are right, in their way, and both are wrong. One cannot address issues with righteous people (as proven here time and time again). Again, I will say that in my opinion, which I personally do not care if anyone else agrees with , until the false leader of the Palestinians is out of the picture and someone comes along who is not bent upon murdering folks to make a point, the people who call themselves Palestinians will soon be exterminated from the world by Israel. I would not care to see this happen for the sake of all of the innocent folks who will die. There is always a peaceful solution to any situation IF the moral leaders arise to present it. Biblically, Israel will does not say in the bible that it is mandated by God that the Israeles must kill all Arabs in the area in order to exist as a country. Surely that will happen if Arafat and his kind are not exposed for the evil people that they have always been and continue to be.

-- lesley (, January 23, 2002.


It does say in the bible that the Jews are to kill all the inhabitants of the promised land.(Read the book of Joshua.) Joshua didn't quite do what he was supposed to do and left some of the inhabitants alive, thus ensuring future problems.

Talk to you later.

-- Bob in WI (, January 23, 2002.

Bob, I was referring to God's promise to restore Israel, not His initial mandate in the O.T. ...if it makes a few of you happy somehow to picture all those dead folks as some sort of God-edict, then, hey, life is too short to argue with folks over things which I have no control over.

-- lesley (, January 23, 2002.

Do I remeber correctly that Arafat was actually given a peace prize a few years back? Just wondering...I really don't care to see a bunch of innocent folks killed by either side. To what end? They all have a right to exist, I guess I can't fully comprehend why they can't do so in relative peace. I think the creation of a Palestinian state is just going to throw fuel on an already raging fire...solution??? I BELEIVE (stress added intentionally) that when a peacful solution comes to this situation it will be a fulfillment of prophecy. I do understand the sides of both and actually lean more to agreeing with lesley on this.

-- Doreen (, January 23, 2002.


I'm not waiting for, or wanting bodies to be everywhere. What I was trying to say is if the Jews had done what God ordered so long ago, they would probably not have the problem they have to deal with today.

Talk to you later.

-- Bob in WI (, January 23, 2002.

The little known part of this history is that these flames have been fanned for several decades by none other than the UN.

Way back when, Arafat and his merry band of trouble makers attacked the Israelites and got their butts kicked good and ended up in UN Refugee Housing. Generations later, they are still there, nursing on the UN sugar tit and feeding their grudges. There are kids in this refugee housing, born citizens of Jordan, yet believe they need to "go home,'" instead of joining the society in which they reside.

Daryl is right, there were no national divisions, they were all Muslems and this was there identity. It is the UN pumping money and idealogy to them to keep this going.

As much killing that is going on over there, I wish Arafat would just do his suicide mission and we won't have to listen to him any more. And yes, he was either awarded or nominated for the peace prize.

-- Laura (, January 23, 2002.

That whole issue is so complicated its hard to take any specific side. I empathize with the Israelies but also with the Palestinians. But as sure as God made little green apples there will be no peace there intil there's a collective will for it and that doesn't look like its gonna happen because there's extremists on each side who will not let the issue rest until they get THEIR way.

-- john (, January 23, 2002.

Hello Daryl,

Israel was never a nation in 4000 BC! The earliest records of its exsistace start around 1250 BC when they conquered the Canonittes. They became a divided "nation" in 928 BC separating into Israelites and Judaens. Israel was defeated by Assyria in 721 BC and Judah was defeated by Babylonia during King Nebuchadnezzar's reign. The nation of Israel was no more at that point.

The civilation of Persia, or ancient Palestine ruled until Alexander the Great conquered them in 333 BC. Then, Palestine was reduced to a small region known then as the West Wall.

Jerusalem was later built near the West Wall on Palestinian soil. The battle has continued ever since. Each side claiming ancestorial rights to Jerusalem.

In 1947 the British, with the help of the newly formed United Nations forced Palestinians to give up their ancestorial rights to the land and thus the Israel Nation was reunited as the true owners. The true owners of Jerusalem is Israel but, the true owners of the land has always been Palestine.

Dispite Israel conquering the Canonites, their claims to the land are unfounded because of their defeat as a nation years later. It was Persia that grew and survived throughout history and until 1947, they were the lawful owners of that region.

If I was to build my home on your land you would have the right to take it....since it was built on your land. If I had no other place to go and this was my only home, I would deny it to be your land and fight for it. That is what the nation of Israel has and is still doing. Except, they now have the support of the United Nations to keep it. And since the US has great interest in Israel, they too support them and support those same convictions.

The world got sympathic to the Jews because of the holacaust during the second world world. They felt "obligated" to give them something because of the six million deaths caused by Nazism. But, the Palestinians had nothing to do with those deaths and should not have been forced off their land in exchange to ease the guilty conscience of the rest of the world.

Do not infer that I might be antisemitic just because I do not support the views of the rest of the world. It has nothing to do with ethnicity nor, does it have anything to do with feelings one way or another. My view that if anyone should have been forced off their land in the name of the Israel State, it should have been the Nazis themselves. They propergated the notion that Jews were bad and tried to prove it with first propaganda and then genocide. The culprits to punish should had been Germany.

But, since the Israel people had once a long time ago roamed as a divided nation, a defeated nation, across the plains of what is now Palestine, someone felt that they were more entitled to live there than the Palestinians. That someone had more power than Palestine. That someone did not care about the Palestinian peoples. Their interest then and still is today was for economic gain.

There would not have been a single economic advantage for the United Nations to lockhorns with Germany and moved the Israel State there instead of Palestine. However, a powerful nation supporting the UN would gain a justifiable reason to allow Israel to be placed in the middle east, where a huge amount of badly needed oil reserves would be well protected by a country that gets a blank check for defense. Germany would be (dispite the war) a force to be reckoned with as compared to a few nomadic tribes living in Palestine.

Economic reasons brought the Israel State into being. Maybe, the bible prophecy is true and end times are here when the fig tree blossoms but, its blossoming has been a product of GNP and not rightful ownership.



-- (, January 25, 2002.

Ernest, the history as I understand it:

Palestine under the League of Nations was made a British 'mandated territory' after WW1, Britain should have formed a state of Palestine according to the way the mandates were supposed to work but they were unable to do so. Britain had earlier given an undertaking to the Zionist organisation for the establishment of a Jewish state in the area, of course it was impossible to do both so Britain handed the problem over to the UN about 2 years after WWII. There was to be two states, a state of Israel and one of Palestine with Jerusalem an internationalised city. Various ructions since then has seen Israel occupy both areas and they are not about to give any of it up.

In my opinion it is a terrible mess and what happended in recent or distant history becomes less and less relevant. As my mother would say "They all need their heads banged together"

-- john hill (, January 26, 2002.

I would like to make a point and that is one who throws rocks at tanks should not expect to live a long life. In war everyone wears a uniform even in normal life we all wear a uniform in a some symbolic way. The Israel's have a uniform that is quite different than what normal people wear so there is really no mistake who the target should be. However a terreroist by diffinition wears the uniform of human flesh. Flesh of thier neigbor, flesh of an inocent child.Flesh of thier friends. Not because they are brave but becuase they are cowards and choose to hide behind the flesh of others. Hence they are called terrorist becuae, they not only are a threat to those they attack but are a threat to thy neigbor. So you Understand what I mean if I found my neigbor to be a terrorist he would either be put in jail because I would turn him in. Or i would just KILL him myself for putting my family in harms weight. Terrorism is the anti matter to freedom. They can not co-exist. So when one resorts to terrorism one must understand you are resorting to genoicde and the retaliation should be nothing less than destruction of a belief for it can not co- exist. So before going to battle one should decide just how much you are willing to sacraifice.Furthermore each human should decide if they want to be someone elses uniform. My flesh is to be worn only by myself. So for an adult to allow their famaily to be in harms way and worn as a terrorist uniform is a crime against humanity. They are not to very innocent. Ignorence and fear have no place when protecting your children.

Now I have a question that is if Persia (which i believe is correct) were the owners of the land form most of history. Why would Palistine be any more intitled than Israel. Further if memory serves me I believe that Israil did not occupy all the land they now do until 1967. Which if memory serves me they did not invade they just defended themselves in a forward diriction. that was when the Egyptians and Palistines decided to push Isreal into the sea. So once again i say don't try geoncide and complain when you lose. Actually i would give them one more chance allow one more suicide bomber(turn the other cheek so to say) Pull out of the territories but let the world know if they bomb the 2nd time it will be the destruction of a belief that will be fought. Just as the US did to Japan in WWII. Japan tried to surrender after the first bomb however they had conditions. Well conditions are unacceptable they way of the empire had to go. The price of terrorism must become unaffordable to anyone. Humanity must have no tolerance, even in this country a failed terrorist attack should be treated as a successful one. Once crossing that line there can be no coming back.

-- Dan (, May 11, 2002.

Hmmm. I'm Jewish, yet I still disagree with Israel's policies. But dont get me wrong, I'm not condoning the Palestinian Authority either. Fact of the matter is, until BOTH SHARON AND ARAFAT are removed from office nothing will change. This situation is ridiculous, with two fanatics leading both sides of the conflict into more bloodshed. I'm sorry, but Daryl's statements are very offensive, and they tend to echo Bush's demeanor, and that of many other uneducated people. His declaration that basically accuses any who disagree with his statements as anti-Semitic resonates strongly with conservatives in the US whose idea that dissentors of government policy are unpatriotic. These cheap shots against people who disagree with your ideological message sickens me to the core. It is stifling free speech and debate worldwide. I'm Jewish, and by Dary'ls statements, since i disagree with some of his "facts", in Dary'ls view, I'm supposedly anti-Semitic. It's people like Daryl that are causing problems in the first place. I think that the Los Angeles times editorial sums up the Israel/Palestinian situation nicely. The address is: mideast19nov19,0,4433858.story?coll=la-news-comment-editorials

-- ... (, November 23, 2003.

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