In the Church's history, there have been false claimants to the Cathedre of the Pontiff. These people were called anti-popes. The pope claims to be a vicar (substitute) of Christ on Earth. John-Paul II himself decribes the papacy as "Vicarius Filii Dei." Here are some excerpts from Catechism: "For the Roman Pontiff, by reason of his office as Vicar of Christ, and as pastor of the entire Church has full, supreme, and universal power over the whole Church, a power which he can always exercise unhindered." Pg. 234, #882 The Roman Pontiff... as supreme pastor and teacher of all the faithful..." Pg. 235, #891 However, the Bible is very clear that Jesus Christ is the true Master of the Church. The Bible also says ..."But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you." John 14:26 "Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth..." John 16:13 ...and...."And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;" John 14:16 Therefore it is clear that for the pope to claim this power, which belongs solely to God, that he himself is a false-claimant to the Throne of the Most High, making him a type of anti-Christ. Any thoughts?

-- Wondering (Catholic@Catholic.com), January 23, 2002

Answers

The Pope is God's authority here on Earth, and is not trying to replace Christ, but the Pope is God's ambassador.

As you know, when a country sends an ambassador to another country, it's sending a representative of it's leader to that country and has authority to act on it's behalf. Same with the Pope.

The Pope is an authorized representative or messenger of Christ himself.

Vicar at webster.com actually means: 1 : one serving as a substitute or agent; specifically : an administrative deputy 2 : an ecclesiastical agent

So as you can see, the Vicar of Christ, is not trying to replace Christ, but is an agent or ambassador of Christ.

If we do not recognize the Pope as God's representative who has authority to give the correct teaching, then we fall for the same problem that the protestants have, in that we have many sources (our pastor, the community, our own mind, etc).

We can claim that Christ is our authority, I have never heard a word from Christ, except what is written in the Bible, and that is open to interpretation, and with all the different interpretations out there, it's enough to drive a person to not believe in any of it.

-- G Vink (gordonvink@bigfoot.com), January 23, 2002.

Wondering,

John-Paul II himself decribes the papacy as "Vicarius Filii Dei."

I would find this quite interesting, if true. Can you produce a link for this statement, or not? My guess is "not" btw.

Frank

-- Someone (ChimingIn@twocents.cam), January 23, 2002.

To say that Jesus doesn't talk directly to people in this present day is false. I know that I myself have heard the Lord's voice on more than one occasion, and it was indeed amazing! Nevertheless, John Paul II has described himself as Vicarius Filii Dei, I know I have seen the reference (I think it was a relatively recent statement). I will search for the hard evidence for you. What would be the significance of him making that claim?

-- Joel (BlueshoundGE@yahoo.com), January 23, 2002.

He is the Vicar of Christ on earth. It means, our pastor who tends the lambs of Our Lord Jesus Christ in the world. Fils Dei is Latin for Son of God. *Vicar on earth of the Son of God. And that's what the Pope is, by vocation. He takes nothing away from Jesus Christ, rather, he protects what Christ has entrusted to him. It's biblically documented. (John 21, :15 through :17)

-- eugene c. chavez (chavezec@pacbell.net), January 23, 2002.

Joel: --I AM amazed> And why, then haven't you done as He commanded you? (To say that Jesus doesn't talk directly to people in this present day is false. I know that I myself have heard the Lord's voice on more than one occasion, and it was indeed amazing! (Your claim, unsubstantiated.) You remain against the Church He is the Head of.

>Jesus has spoken to and been seen by many Catholic saints; and not one ever said He disowned His holy Church. Are you a Catholic saint?

-- eugene c. chavez (chavezec@pacbell.net), January 23, 2002.

closing italized tag

-- G Vink (gordonvink@bigfoot.com), January 23, 2002.

John 15-17??????

How about John 18-22? And the rest of the story........

It tells exactly what it means-by what death Peter should glorify God!

Interesting too, it comments on what if the one who betrays him tarrys till Christ comes?

Yes that's interesting, Christ makes a prophecy concerning "Peter the rock"-papacy.

Keep diggin your hole.

-- anon (me@you.com), January 23, 2002.

Joel,

I heard his voice too. He called me son!

Blessed be his name!

-- anon (me@you.com), January 23, 2002.

Read John 21. TWENTY-ONE, v. 15 to 17. It is why Peter is the first Pope, chosen by Christ. Don't play dumb /

-- eugene c. chavez (chavezec@pacbell.net), January 23, 2002.

Okay, check this out...Anon, and everyone on here who thinks that the Lord only talks to the Catholic religious leaders...this is awsome! I was working by myself, cleaning the locker rooms at this pool in a nearby town, working for my dad's company. I was talking to the Lord, and I asked him, partly in jest..."Lord, I know you say you will never leave me and that you'll always love me, but how do you KNOW that 30 years down the line I'm not going to screw up really bad and you won't stop loving me?" His answer blew me away. Clear as a bell, I heard the words, "I've been there." Ha! Isn't that true? Praise God!

-- Joel (BlueshoundGE@yahoo.com), January 24, 2002.

HaHaaa!
You're easy to blow away, aren't you Lad? By the way, you mentioned your good father.

In one of your adventures here, you said Dad left the Catholic Church. Because, all he ever could learn in the Church was, he would be sent to hell.

I was amazed. I asked, how come all of us Catholics here are taught we will be in heaven someday, as saints with Jesus? The only condition being faith and perseverance. And again, was your poor Dad so hard to educate? Not as hard as you, I guess. But explain what he meant about being educated this way? We have the right education, and we have grace and the sacraments and faith in Christ our Redeemer.

-- eugene c. chavez (chavezec@pacbell.net), January 24, 2002.

Eugene,

Do you have the right verse? That talks about Mary Magdeline seeing Jesus at the site of his tomb the day after he was crucified. What does that have to do with Peter?

Joel,

wink ;)

-- anon (me@you.com), January 24, 2002.

Anon,

What version of the Bible are you reading? Eugene pointed out John 21:15-18 which IS another scripture reading which shows the primacy of Peter.

wink ;) (whatever that means)

-- Glenn (glenn@excite.com), January 24, 2002.

He don't know, Glenn. He's just a Poker player. Not a very good bluffer.

-- eugene c. chavez (chavezec@pacbell.net), January 24, 2002.

Hi, Glenn.
Do you remember when I told you that the forum occasionally gets hit by a torrent of hellish manure from anti-Catholics, until the wave recedes for a while? Well, in case you had not noticed, one of those turd-tsunamis has been upon us in recent days. However, as always, we will outlast this one, and the silly boys and girls being used by satan will drift away.

They look for new ways to fool us, but can never succeed. For example, the person (and I use the term loosely) who started this thread -- "Wondering" -- pretended to be a believer, using the phony e-mail address of "Catholic@Catholic.com." But what did he/she post? Trash plagiarized from a grossly anti-Catholic "Chicklet" site.

Of course, "Wondering" embellished it a bit with the idiotic stuff (popular among anti-Catholics for the last few years) about "vicarius filii dei." As Frank stated, no one can show that this is a bona fide title of the pope. It is just part of a silly game to try to link the papacy with the notorious number, 666. And then Jayhawk Joel (who may very well be disguised as "Wondering") pretends that he has seen Pope John Paul II referring to himself as "vicarius filii dei." Hah! Joel might be funny if he were not such an ignorant, pathetic, and offensive mess.

St. James, pray for us.
St. Joel of Pulsano, pray for your namesake.
God bless you.
John

-- (jfgecik@hotmail.com), January 26, 2002.

well he is not my pastor or pope or anything what do they belive do they belive u go to heaven and hell or what i would like to no

-- harvdog (harvdogo67@aol.com), August 27, 2002.

If you are saved, you go to heaven. If you are not, you go to hell. How does one become saved? "If you confess with your mouth, Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved." Sorry for the late response! Joel

-- (Back@you.com), December 24, 2003.

Joel, Faith alone cannot save. In order to be saved, one must belong to the Catholic Church. This is a "de fide" teaching of the Church. So while we can acknowledge faith in Christ and good works in non- Catholic Christians, one thing remains to assure the possibility of salvation: the Catholic Church. We should not judge anyone in particular, leave that to our Lord who knows the soul of each person and circumstances in their lives. However divine revelation teaches the necessity of Christ and the Catholic Church for salvation. Also remember, faith without works is nothing.

In Christ, Bill

-- Bill Nelson (bnelson45@hotmail.com), December 24, 2003.

Bill, please do not reply to Joel. He was permanently banned from the forum in 2001. The moderator should delete all his current and future messages.

-- (_@_._), December 24, 2003.