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Tapa-Chemtrails listserver: Digest Number 258

Message: 3 Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 From: "Misty" Subject: ChemTrails: The Great Dying

From: "Leslee Dru Browning"

Subject: ChemTrails Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 Name With held at author's request.

Sorry to have to write you in this fashion, but I can no longer sit and watch the amazing display of stupidity demonstrated by the so-called fringe media and various internet sites that purport to "get to the bottom" of this chemtrail business. Let's get to the point.

First, notice how every so many months, here comes yet another "insider" email about how these chemtrails are just cloud cover to protect the planet or some other idiot view like "increased jet traffic along unused air corridors." We laugh at how many radio shows run this dribble with such frequency that we now wonder why they too, exhibit either complete idiocy or, are in fact, part of the disinformation campaign being waged to keep the world's population looking the other way.

Common sense is the key here, no matter what is postulated. Use your brains. Think things through. Let some clarity and rationality come into the picture.

Disinfo strategy Numero Uno: Cloud Cover to protect us from those evil sunrays, caused by us selfish, gas-guzzling citizens.

First, notice how most folks who use this disinfo strategy always condemn the consumer as being the bad guy - who uses way too much energy for our poor planet - then these agents point out that chemtrails are, in fact, doing us a favor by creating cloud cover to protect these same people from their own greed. The problem with this ongoing disinfo strategy is that everybody knows free energy has been around since the 1920s and it is corporate America who keeps us dependent upon oil, not ourselves. How convenient to make us the scapegoats for real problems (global warming, ozone depletion, etc.,) then the big LIE which is they are doing us some favor to relieve the problem. Notice the current Ed Teller scenario being played out right now. This new strategy is keeping real researchers from looking into the smoking gun: biologicals.

Second, Cloud seeding has been around, and used successfully, since the 1950s, with no adverse effects. USAF studies during that time were proudly published in most relevant media of the day and laboratory results were always available to anyone who was interested. Why? Because real cloud seeding is actually harmless. They can make all the clouds they want which have NO BIOLOGICALS in them. The simple truth here is that if making clouds were the reason, they would happily own up to it. The reason for the secrecy now is for the following reasons:

1. Barium waste products are part of the "soup." 2. Desiccated red blood cells with no hemoglobin are present in ground and air samples. These blood cells contain pathogens that act like the good old sleeper agents. These are binary weapons systems being deployed on a global level. 3. People are dying in large numbers. Talk to medical professionals. They tell the real story here and it is not a pretty one. 4. Malathion is part of the soup. 5. Dioxin is part of the soup. 6. Aluminum is part of the soup. 7. Much of the chemtrails are being done right into existing clouds on rainy days to insure that the mix will get into your water supply. The key here is the barometer. When humidity exceeds 30%, they start spraying. Pay attention. 8. There is a coup d'etat taking place and it started with the Bush administration. You will find the following disinfo strategy's deployed against researchers:

- Cloud cover. Protection against the sun's rays.

- Chemtrails simply don't exist. You are imagining the whole thing.

- What deaths? Prove them. Don't rely on the CDC, they are part of the operation and are in fact, lackey's for the Pentagon, as everyone here in DC knows.

- Your samples are flawed. You didn't analyze your petri-dish correctly.

- A radar shield. This, by far, is the most stupid one advanced. You would be surprised how many people want to believe this. What sicknesses? Prove them.

That leaves some very few answers. Answers that most people would rather not consider. Let's see who gets the answer right. I'll send another email in a week. Please keep my name anonymous


Subject: Re: Chemtrails: the saga continues Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000

Watching the debates over (and phone taps to my line here) since sending you my email of yesterday, it occurred to me that I should get this last email out to you regarding and expanding upon the reasons for CTs (ChemTrails), as well as dealing with issues sure to be discounted by the agents of the ONI (Office of Naval Intelligence, the agency in charge of the chemtrail ops.) Taking each issue in turn might help shed some light upon this problem. The overall scope and agenda behind chemtrails (Operation Clover Leaf, Operation Red Sky, Operation Rain Dance, the code names for these ops, btw) intertwines several overall objectives deemed imperative by the real power in DC, which is the NSA. It should be noted that most of the intel groups that are involved in domestic control are, in varying degrees, "in the loop" on this business and are actively working with the ONI and NSA in seeing this program succeed. Listing all the agencies would be moot and pointless - what would anyone do with the knowledge anyway?

The reason I say this has to due with STO vs. STS. Here's what we mean: by conservative estimates, there are over 300,000 people in the USA alone that are chemtrail aware. Of those, only about 125 people have undertaken an active campaign to educate and inform the masses about this "final solution." Do the math. How many of you know what the word apathy means? The agencies are counting upon this apathy and in fact, helped create that state of consciousness to begin with way back in the late 1950s (Fluoridation, Aspartame, street narcotics.) If such a small percentage were actually doing anything about the phenomena, then wouldn't these same agencies be correct in their analysis that "they don't have anything to worry about?" The facts speak for themselves. They will in fact succeed, because they are at the 80% completion point in these CT operations. They will be finished by March of 2001.

Main and ancillary operational objectives of Chemtrails as outlined in Operation Red Sky, Phase One:

Main objective: Creative cleavages in spatial perceptions. Creating a blockage in the brain of the interaction of various amino acids that relate to higher consciousness and the increase of dopamine in the brain producing a listless, euphoric state of lower, reactive mind. This, though most cannot (won't?) process this perception, is their main objective. It has many layers to it, and the salts found in these CTS are the prime indicators of just why they use such a vector to create this state in the human brain, the physical repository of and connecting point between the real and the unreal. To understand this goal necessitates an understanding of the human soul, the spiritual Self (Christ or God within, if you like) and the connection between the two as related to the endocrine system functioning within each human host. Pay close attention to these last words, as "host" indicates that there is a parasitic relationship to be established. Many UFO abductions are part of this op. To begin with, we must understand that our intelligence agencies are operating at a very high level of OCCULT SKILL AND AWARENESS, as taught to them by their progenitors, the Nazis of old who were brought here in 1947 through 1953 via various operations, the most common known being Operation Paper-Clip. In short, any Intel agent of a G20 rating is a practicing black magician entirely "sold out," soul-wise, (via rites, rituals, and esoteric training in Long Island, Florida, and California) and are-speaking plainly- functioning black Adepts with a complete and unquestioned license to kill. These are the top-level agency personnel. Make no mistake. These are the very same men and women who run the Mind Control Ops (CIA), the abduction of children (FBI) on a staggering global level, are involved in and are the contactees between the Ets (USAF, ONI, NSA, etc) and our government, ad nauseam.

In short, to understand Chemtrails we must understand the personnel who have the power to do what they want, whenever they want, and we must also understand their needs. They need the following:

1. The overall "frequency" of each of their charges (human beings in each country) to function at a specific rate below the threshold of awareness. The study of brainwaves, Remote Viewing techniques, and other related research holds the key to this. As we know, a physical brain functioning at 12 to 14 cycles per second is agitated and cannot, therefore, become perceptive of any cycle not within the same frequency, especially if that BRAIN IS ARTIFICIALLY stabilized to that frequency. How can one perceive love, when the brain can only register impatience, anger, etc? (Remember, their goal has to do with our souls in dimensions humanity has never, ever, considered.) It is because of the occult nature of our covert agencies (and the real powers running them) that most cannot even begin to research in the right direction to begin with.

2. The immune system of the host must be depleted. This relates to control, simply put. If the slightest breeze makes you dizzy, what kind of defense can you be expected to put up if you can't lift your arms above your head without getting a headache? The many outnumber the few. This is the main reason for much of the desiccated red blood cells found in chemtrails: biowarfare. This also allows the parasite to latch onto the human host with little resistance from the organism so attached.

3. They need agreement. This last statement is by far the MOST CRUCIAL stage of all. It isn't enough to make us slaves, we MUST WANT TO BECOME SLAVES. Food scarcity, low wages, false idealism as propagated via network commercials, all create a state of low-level dependency to a state system, but it is not enough. To win (want to know what winning is to the CIA?) these ruling covert agencies need our permission to do what they will to us (Universal Law, no getting around that one and they've known this since 1847.) The system of this biosphere has one final gate that only each of us can open or close and it is, in fact, free will. Free will - such a concept. That alone would take another ten pages, but there's no time.

Once we understand their needs, their objectives become easily understandable and quite discernable. The real questions never-NEVER-asked in any chemtrail discussions is What do they want? How must they achieve it? Ancillary objective: create and maintain a lowered immune system, for use by phase three, which is the execution of their binary weapons systems, to be triggered by microwaves.

Know what a GWEN tower is? Better find out and soon, as you can see them everywhere from your homes and offices. Ever wonder why we have so very many cell phones practically given away for free right now? Know what a burst transmitter is? Does anyone have even the remotest idea of what a low-watt microwave transmission does to the cerebellum when the human brain is within three feet of such a device? If you lack this knowledge, then it is to your detriment. The information is out there. Get hip. The great side benefit that even the NSA didn't predict (their estimate was a little over 3%) is the 12% reduction in population chemtrails are giving our "masters." That's right-12%. In the distant future, the 1990s and beyond will become known as "the great dying." In August of 2000, the sky over Los Angeles was actually blood red for two days. (They over-sprayed, due to fxxked up orders at Edwards AFB.) The morgues were packed solid for a week and over-flowing. There are still hundreds of thousands reeling from that two-day period. Many hospitals and clinics ran out of antibiotics overnight.

Binary weapons need to be triggered and they will use FM, AM, and Microwave GWEN towers to do it. It's all setup, op completed in 1998. Why do this? Wake up! Can't control 6+ billion people-too many. Got to thin them out to keep them in line. I can see the squeemers now as they read this.

How and when will they go to stage two on this op? Can you say fake alien invasion, with millions dying and getting sick overnight? The test for this will be a planned (already complete staged op, in fact, WNV) biowarfare incident on a major US or European or Australia (last most likely, as they are already completely disarmed down under.) This will give them the final test data they need to go to stage two, which is the invasion occasionally hinted at once and a while on the Internet. Now I must be crazy, right? At least, when I die, I will know who and why. That's more than I can say for most. Tough love. It seems the only way to reach you people.

Culling of the Biosphere: Many folks will rightly say that "the culling of the elderly, et al" is flat-out nonsense because CTs affect the sprayers as well as the civilian population. That assertion is essentially correct, but the following should be noted:

1. A virus can only affect you if you are not immunized from it. Think these folks are up to date with their "private cache" of vaccines? Sure. You don't send out a binary weapon until you are damn certain it won't kill you, the killer. This reaction of "the sprayers breathe it in, too!" is grasping at straws that don't even exist in any reality. Simply put: it is denial.

2. They simply don't care who they kill, even their own pawns and puppets in the military.


Keys to Chemtrails Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000

These keys are not new. They've been out there in various forms for over a year now. They easily dispel cloud cover, radar shields, and other disinfo explanations, the former two being the most widely limited hangouts given to make us all go back to sleep. The most damning evidence is the very issue that has at its roots the most sinister: control and elimination. If we conclude, and we must, that the data does point to a singular direction (like the HIV data the conclusively proves AIDS is a CIA/WHO invention) then no matter how painful the truth must be, it still must be the truth.

1. Gulf War Illness. Look at the spray patterns over the gulf. Look at the effects. Look at the chemistry. Look at the denial by the Govt. All the same. (The French, unwilling to go along at the time, were excluded from the soup. They are now "part of the family" and have their own CTs covering France, as do most of the world, except the USSR and their "real" satellites.") France and Spain both joined the "occult clubs" late in the game, preferring their own "DeGaulle" paths until they realized they were simply following the same beast anyway.

2. Aluminum. Used in CTs as a low-watt conductor, especially when it concerns ELF (brain wave level) transmissions. The test data for this can be found in the Navy, who pioneered this technology back in the 1960s for their subs. Same for today. The Aluminum is not just any off the shelf variety, but is a blend of T7075, with barium, molybdenum, and copper. Look at the crystal formations in the aluminum and notice the polarizing toward a counter-centric alignment not normally found in nature.

3. Occasionally, the CDC steps on its own foot. Notice their trend data charts for what they consider "epidemic corridors" and how the USA has exceeded that trend data since Sept of 1998. The charts I got from them six months ago clearly show most Western countries having exceeded "pandemic" level infections from "unknown airborne ailments." This should have been the biggest news story of April, 2000 but nary a word from anyone. Why not? A simple study of their own data reveals the truth about chemtrails that is horrifying in the extreme (or it should be. Even with this data, no doubt only about a dozen people will actually be upset enough to shake their fist. Wouldn't you say that with that kind of low-level reaction, the intel groups will meet and exceed their operational goals for CTs?)

4. Those very elusive desiccated red blood cells. No samples? Easy enough to do. You'll need to be above ten thousand feet to get near pure petri samples, but it can and is often done. Figure it out. If we can pretend to send a man to the moon, we can get a petri dish up above ten thousand feet. It's easy to analyze blood - and the pathogens engineered in them. Most of the pathogens distributed are done at low-levels (less than 5,000 feet.) Aluminum, barium, and longer-life elements are done above 12,000 feet.

5. Clouds are NOT radar shields. There isn't an AWACS bird yet worth its JP10 that can't easily sidestep any type of cloud cover in existence and that for over 30 years. Looking in this direction is more disinfo. But there is something to it. These ops are constructed and designed to use "existing, natural cloud cover" whenever possible, to shield the real presence of CTs. Also, any resultant rainfall helps the sprayers by getting their soup in our water tables. They need this aluminum in our drinking water, for reasons involving ionization.

6. Why hasn't someone yet come up with their spray-pattern templates. We thought that would have been done first, but to date no one has done it. Some C++ skills are needed and are out there. Why? There IS a pattern that is predicable. Barometer here is a crucial key.

7. Don't look to the weather channel. What a piece of fiction those radar images are. The doctoring of real-time images is now done with computers that don't make mistakes. The process is called "resonant image mirroring" and how it is done is that each GEOS-SAT click (one second snap of real time data, that's a "click") is mirrored onto a new screen that gets a wash of the lines and redefines borders. In a moment you have a new sat image devoid of any "lines." The next second is reviewed by another computer system and three human observers who are literally watching a big screen tv, 24x7, for accuracy. The next second has the images shot into a "relay can" which holds the image for 10 more seconds before it is dumped back into the subscribing routers for download to anyone with the right frequency, a dish, and the decryption codes. Network TV is an example of a subscriber. NSA, CIA, etc., get the real images, the rest of the world gets make-believe. Pretty neat technology, if you ask me. Two years ago, you could get the images from most of the sats, without any doctoring and the images clearly show an extensive, global, spraying program. Now, it's almost impossible-without using a govt. node-to get any real "raw" data.

8. The so-called UFOs in the CTs are ours. Anyone who doesn't understand that our technology practically doubles every year or so, is still living in 1953. Let's face it - that dog and pony show at Canaveral is still the longest running joke in the service. (The light show of rockets and all that, still gets big ratings with the appropriations committees and the general public. We send up dozens of ships a day, in a matter of seconds, that are never seen and never will be by any satellite, because they are not propulsion based ships but, for lack of a better term, gravlev (though even gravlev technology was phased out in the late '70s when we acquired orgone-polarizing technology.) We don't need solid fuel rockets anymore than we need typewriters. These remotely piloted vehicles in CTs sample the air for dispersion data. It might be obvious, then, to point out that the only reason they've used occulating particles is to follow the fallout and dispersal patterns used by the tankers. Fully 30% of most CTs over urban centers are non-visible. That will increase over the next few months to something around 70%, making the whole thing appear like bad dream. "See - they stopped spraying us, we can get on with our lives" kind of thing. That will certainly be one of our last thoughts, to be sure.

9. The most fascinating revelation regarding chemtrails was found in Crop circles, of all things. Will try to find the image we discovered last summer, but the latest CT soup formulae appeared in a crop circle somewhere in England. I don't have the intel on the circles, but anytime I ever asked about them, the spooks got real nervous (which means it is something no doubt spiritual. They literally hate anything that has love or joy in it, hence-I believe-that the crop circles have a spiritual origin to them. I do know that there is an op going with MI5 in regard to them; no doubt some kind "debunking." My own speculation is that somehow humanity is being warned by something, somewhere and that we've been given some kind elementary communications primer. Math seems to be the key, but the non-linear kind. What and Who? No one is talking. That alone means it is not something from their darkened halls from hell or the intelligence agencies would have seen it coming (they can easily see the future, though it requires a ritual sacrifice of one of their own.) That they are upset with Crop Circles is to understate their reaction to CCs presence in our world. Also, it looks like a great many CCs are being wiped out before the public can get to them by an op wing running out of Nellis, AFB. It appears that the circle phenomenon as it is just appearing in the USA won't be allowed (if possible) by the NSA, for whatever reasons. Don't have access to that.

10. Vaccinations. Stop it already. You can only vaccinate against a specific thing. Common sense reveals this lie. Any govt. can make a bio weapon for which there is no recourse and do it overnight. We really can defend against the unknown, so this is the reason for Cts. Even if we were given the entire arsenal of vaccines against known pathogens, it wouldn't mean anything to a real bio terrorist: they would just make up something new by Wednesday and fire it off. The reality check here is that everyone knows that the only bio terrorists functioning in the world have the initials U.S.A. on their sleeves. In regards to worldwide bio terrorism, we have no further than our on America to look.

11. Fascinating disinfo campaign underway. The most prevalent are radar shield and sunscreen. These will be given the most credence and fringe airtime. By the tons. Sounds nice on the surface - sunscreen.

12. The agencies are pretty sure of their outcome regarding chemtrails. For whatever it is worth, they do get results. They generally don't get involved even with a low-expectation op without being sure of success. Something of this magnitude means they are convinced of success, no matter what the public may or may not do. I would agree with this assessment as being accurate in the extreme. It would appear we are all heading for their world whether we want to or not. The final and simple truth here is that their world is no world at all, but a hell based on the something where the will is given precedence over all else: will = right. That's their core driving impulse, even whispered aloud (I've heard it with my own ears.) when they are just talking absently about this or that.

13. Bush seems pretty confident, even when his hand is caught in the cookie jar. He just knows he's going to make it - .

In the end, the how, the who, the when of chemtrails is just so much smoke and mirrors. Just because you've identified the UH1H helicopter, the KC-135 tanker, and the use of Boeing 737s in Chemtrails is really, again in the end, meaningless. We all know who were the shooters in Dallas, but so what? That knowledge doesn't change anything. Find out who is giving the orders and why and then you've got something.


-- Doreen (, January 24, 2002


Admittedly ignorant on chemtrails in general. That's the most I've ever seen on the topic. I have to admit,it took all I had to finish. Highly skeptical of the whole thing at this point.

-- John in S. IN (, January 24, 2002.

Yeah, it is a ton of stuff. I don't know about all of the allegations made here, some of them have been made by many other folks, but not all.

I was seriously hoping that someone with some military knowledge would know of a way to confirm the operations titles, or give some leads to that end. I don't know where to start to find out about those.

Are you skeptical that they exist, or skeptical about what they are? They definitely exist...and in much greater abundance recently.

-- Doreen (, January 24, 2002.

Well, I admit I didn't make it through the whole thing, yet. I made it through the first part, and the "coup d'etat" starting with the Bush administration. What was that about? When I was being "sprayed" in Central Texas, it was during the Clinton administration. Certainly, no answers were to be found then, either, and we tried.

A couple of other thoughts: re this being some kind of attempt to save us from our own pollution or whatever. I couldn't help but be astounded by the thought of how much fuel these guys were using to do this all day for several days at a time just in our area, and knowing they were doing it elsewhere, as well.

Also, we noticed, as well that, although we saw this done on sunny days, they often went at it with a fury whenever there was cloud cover.

-- mary (, January 25, 2002.

HI, Doreen,

I, too, am highly skeptical. Not that they exist (they do, obviously). I've already given my explanation for what they are, and won't repeat it here, except to say that they are not a government plot. (no, I'm not living in 1953. I also don't believe that the moon landing was fiction. I also don't believe that the internet is fiction)

"In August of 2000, the sky over Los Angeles was actually blood red for two days. (They over-sprayed, due to fxxked up orders at Edwards AFB.) The morgues were packed solid for a week and over-flowing. " Strange how no one in LA seems to have noticed this... None of my relatives who live in the area have mentioned this. Is there some proof? (yeah, I know, the papers are covering it all up.)

"Notice their trend data charts for what they consider "epidemic corridors" and how the USA has exceeded that trend data since Sept of 1998." Where do I find these charts?

"The facts speak for themselves. They will in fact succeed, because they are at the 80% completion point in these CT operations. They will be finished by March of 2001." So, if they are in fact "finished" with this merde, why do I still see "chemtrails" so often? (more and more, ever since the near total disappearance of these nefarious beasties Sept 11)

I wonder if the author of this is a frustrated sci fi author? What a lot of work to put into a bunch of BXX.

Maybe he got frustrated by Y2K, so he had to have another outlet for his paranoia?

-- joj (jump@off.c), January 25, 2002.


You had me worried. I thought you were buying it, and I was gonna have to read that whole dang thing!

-- Rick (WV) (, January 25, 2002.

This is an interesting link


-- john hill (, January 26, 2002.

Joe, I don't know where you find those charts.

That is one of the reasons I posted this thing here. Not because I believe everything said is true, but because I wanted to be able to research it and it was cluttering the work inbox and I wanted a store of it to check out. Purely selfish reasons! Also, I have tried searches, but I cannot find any on line material other than a couple of other chemtrail reports regarding the military operations outlined above. I would REALLY like to know where I might be able to find anything straight from the horse's mouth on those ops.

I read the link you provided John. Question, tho', why did I see these things only once or twice prior to Sept 11, then after Sept 11, blammo!! They are everywhere many days in a row? Also, there is no north south flight path for commercials here. That path is 50 miles west of me. Why are the paths with chemtrails being laid down at very even paralell paths? Over non flight lines??

Listen, if you don't want to believe that there is any chance that something is really not right with these things, fine. As I have stated repeatedly, I don't know what they are, but I DO know that I get a headache when they are very thick. I had rabbits die suddenly after 4 heavy days of chemtrails. Since I didn't have them autopsied, I really don't know what killed them, but I found that to be distressing. I had thought that if it were poisonous the chickens would have succumbed sooner, but that raises a lot of research issues which I am unable to address.

I just don't know what they are, but I have a very hard time believing that all of a sudden the atmosphere over my house changed drastically enough to allow this to happen with a simultaneous illogical shift in air traffic patterns. What is an amazing leap of faith to ask of folks. What I would like is some scientific research into the actual components of the fallout by an independent lab, with NO agenda. I can't fund such an inquiry, tho', so I am exploring all of the options open to me.

Also, I have a very difficult time understanding why a bill would be introduced in Congress mentioning these by name if they don't exist as part of a weapons trial as outlined in HR 2977......Even if I don't like the truth, that is what I want to find out. Believe me, I was happier when I hadn't seen these and didn't know much of the lore/info about them. I never signed up to be a lab rat for the NWO.

Having read many of the documents that call for massive reduction of population, keeping in mind the end game strategy, one begins to see a pattern of seemingly unrelated things working in concert towards a specific end. You might just call this paranoic, but then I might just say you are in denial...Then walls go up and no one gets any closer to the truth.

-- Doreen (, January 26, 2002.


You mentioned parallel trails, I have just witnessed the same thing right here at my home, three condensation trails in the sky quite parallel but the explanation is simple. The flights are at cruise altitude more or less across the prevailing wind, as each aircraft passes it's trail is moved to the side, simple really. I don't know if that is what you see though.

I don't know where you live but I suspect it is somewhere east of the Rockies and in one of the more northern states of the USA or maybe as far south as Texas, I say this because that area is subject to a continental climate pattern where winters are cold and dry and just the conditions for creation of condensation trails, September marks the end of winter for me but the start for you.

Commercial air routes do change, new airports are opened and/or new runways built. Airports are built some distance from population centres but before you know it new housing springs up around the airport, then the residents complain of the noise and arrival and departure routes are altered hence air routes change. New radio navigation facilities are commissioned which allow air routes to change, maybe to make a more direct route between two cities, perhaps a rerouting to avoid areas of congestion or even to avoid areas of population or military significance.

It is not nice to have headaches or have livestock die for unknown reason but dont forget people got headaches and chooks died prior to the invention of the aircraft.

I can't say for sure if what you see is something sinister or not, I just don't know. On the balance of what I have seen (mainly photographs) and read I am as yet unconvinced.

BTW, three hours ago we had clear blue sky with three condensation trails, now we have a full cover of cirrus, a bit of altostratus and even knobs of status on the low hills near my home.

Hang in there, someone must know something!

-- john hill (, January 26, 2002.

Doreen, it cannot tell whether or not what you're supposing is true. In any event, it certainly is scary.

If it is true, it's all the more reason to say that the rats in charge of this country have to go and go NOW. While the battlefield might be a horrible place to be, it certainly is better than an extermination camp. In World War II, the soldier fighting on the battlefield at least had the CHANCE to survive. The same could not be said for the unarmed Jew being marched off to the gas chambers.

If it is NOT true, I would not want to put this past them. The LAST thing we'd want to give those scoundrels is more ideas on how to better oppress or *gulp* exterminate us!

-- Nexar (, January 26, 2002.

These things are not a few parallel lines in the sky. The same two planes will go back and forth all day long, making a thick grid pattern in the sky.

-- mary (, January 28, 2002.

That's interesting Mary, can we see a picture of where they turn at the ends?

-- john hill (, January 28, 2002.

You're spot on, John. The planes, here at least ALL are flying north to south. Up until about twenty or so years ago, the commercial flights were never seen or heard here. Then, one day everyone started complaining about the noise of all these jets flying over every two or three minutes. We were told, by the paper, that the commercial flyways had been rearranged.

I don't see ANY jets flying south to north, or E/W. Ever. Does this mean they never come back?? Don't think so; I assume they fly south to north east or west of here, so they don't bump into the north to south flying jets. Makes sense to me.

Doreen, as you know I'm in favor of population reduction (don't start hurling stones, guys--I am only into doing this through family planning, not through chemtrails!) I have never seen these documents "(Having read many of the documents that call for massive reduction of population, keeping in mind the end game strategy)" you referred to. What are they? I'm very interested in how the author plans to reduce the population.

Doreen, if there is some sinister plot involving chemtrails, I guess it will be shown that we were in denial (we're crocodiles). I prefer to think that we (speaking for myself, anyway) are choosing to look at he facts with an open mind, and drawing a conclusion based on the preponderance of evidence, and the most likely scenario. Sure, there MIGHT be some truth to the chemtrail story; it just doesn't make sense to me, though. There are just too many facets that don't make sense. It would involve too many people to keep it secret; there is the question of why the perps would need to continue spraying us for some twenty years, and why they would need to spray here over southern Orygun, where there are hardly any people; it does not make sense to spray some chemical which is supposed to be affecting the people on the ground from so high up, where it dissipates over such an enormous area it would also involve a cover up by 99% of the world's news organizations. I could go on, but it's probably all been said before.

-- joj (jump@off.c), January 28, 2002.

JOJ, if you dont see returning condensation trails it might be that the return direction flys at a different altitude when the conditions are not conducive to creating the trails.

With a little time on my hands I thought "Okay, lets do some figures here..."

The often mentioned culprit aircraft is the KC135 tanker.

This aircraft has a maximum capacity of about 31,000 gallons which if all used to power the aircraft will take it about 11,000 miles, 0.3mpg!

Mary says the aircraft fly back and forth 'all day' so lets say that is six hours.

So six hours at about 550mph = 3,300 miles, multiply that by 3.3 thats about 10,800 gallons of fuel used.

31,000 minus 10,800 leaves 20,200 gallons storage capacity for the nasty stuff that might be being sprayed.

6 hours of flying at 550mph is 3,300 miles and if we guess the tracks to be one mile apart that means 20,200 gallons of stuff were sprayed over 3,300 square miles. Doreen has told us that one square mile is 640 acres so thats 211,200 acres sprayed.

Hmmmm! thats about 0.09 gallons per acre.

-- john hill (, January 28, 2002.

I know y'all are making fun of me, but I know what I've seen, and you don't. Don't think I'll argue the point anymore with you, though. Obviously, you won't believe what you haven't seen, and I can't disbelieve what I have.

-- mary (, January 28, 2002.

I'm feeling like Mary.

Joe, I'll have to get some of those documents together later. I don't have the time this week. Mostly UN documents.

-- Doreen (, January 29, 2002.

Mary, I don't think anyones really making fun of you. It's more like the scope involved to run an op like this, for so long, with the intent that is to kill people, is just hard to believe.

Military ops, even secret ones, don't stay secret for to long. Yes, if this were being carried out in Rawanda for example, it may well stay secret for awhile. But to be done here in the states, to Americans, by Americans is hard to swallow for me.

Are there chemtrails? I don't know. Maybe, maybe it is a malignant intent too. Maybe it's for something else and not for population control at all. I not qualified to say at all. I do know that NOTHING stays quiet for to long in the government or military of a size and scope such as this.

I hope I'm just being ignorant here, but I'll need to see more real documentation.

-- John in S. IN (, January 29, 2002.

John, did you only look at the first page of the website Chemtrail Central? Here's a picture of "where they turn at the ends."

-- Bren (, January 29, 2002.

The above link looks weird (don't know why) but it works.

-- Bren (, January 29, 2002.

Sorry Bren, that just looks like a couple of throttle jockies having a little fun, or maybe a bit of combat training. Would you expect any of the homesteaders on this site to cultivate their fields with such a pattern?

I can recommend you link however and would like to draw others' attention to 'Flight Explorer'.

The site alludes to trails of identifiable civil flights lasting only a short time while others persist much longer. I am not suprised to see there is a difference assuming as I do that the unidentified flights are military and certainly will not be at the same altitude as busy civil air routes.

When I see some real evidence I will be paying very careful attention.

-- john hill (, January 29, 2002.

Folks, I read, admittedly fairly quickly, the posted article "Trail Research Report"

Wow! This dude did an awful lot of research. For this reason, I'm a bit reluctant to criticize his work, without doing a lot more study of the situation.

Correct me if I'm wrong, someone: his conclusion is that there are lots of persistent contrails, but the really long lasting ones are suspicious, because they come from unidentified aircraft (by unidentified, I mean aircraft who don't show up on the "Flight Explorer" program.

One way to view this situation is that there are sinister goings on with these aircraft; thus, chemtrails. Perhaps this is true. On the other hand, would it not be equally valid to conclude that these unidentified aircraft are merely military craft, innocently going about their business? (assuming military aircraft are ever truly "innocent"!)

As I read this article, the military aircraft are NOT going to show up on this program. I also understand the article to support my own (previously posted) hypothesis that the persistence of contrails is a function of the atmospheric conditions where the jets' exhaust is dumped, particularly relative humidity. The article definitely supports my claim that he contrails, generally speaking, are caused by condensation of the water vapor in the jet exhaust.

So isn't it possible that these military jets are flying at a higher altitude than the jets whose contrails are less persistent?

I also want to point out that, on any given day, essentially ALL the contrails here in Orygun are the same persistence.

More later...

-- joj (jump@off.c), January 30, 2002.

JOJ, it is my conclusion too that aircraft not showing on the Flight Explorer are likely military and they are unlikely to be mixing it with the civil airliners which means they are probably separated by altitude, different altitude means different atmospheric conditions. Just a guess but on other days it may be the identified ones that hang around for longer.

-- john hill (, January 30, 2002.

Yaknow, John, lots of folks here accuse us of refusing to acknowledge what they say is so obvious. Do you think any one of them will ever see anything that doesn't jive with their theories? Lordie knows that you, I, and lots of other folks have shot the chemtrail theories (at least the ones espoused here) so full of holes that they should have sunk by now, but they haven't. Amazing how faith based knowledge can ignore all evidence...

-- joj (jump@off.c), February 01, 2002.

Hey, John (Hill). (I just read the information at your link, above (chemtrails)

Since this site explains pretty much everything about the phenomenon, I hereby plan to merely give folks the url when they start up on this topic, unless they raise a new argument. I'm bored with all the old ones.

-- joj (jump@off.c), February 01, 2002.

Suits me JOJ, the subject has sure made me think about the possible alternative explanations and take a closer look at the sky around here. So it's been interesting in a way but nothing has turned up worthy of being called evidence IMHO.

-- john hill (, February 02, 2002.

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